Can
you first tell me a bit about your work at Filmation?
A
bit of background -- I worked regularly (freelance) at Filmation
for Arthur Nadel on She-Ra, right from the start
of the series -- He-Man production was winding
down at the time I came in -- I have my scripts and all
the model sheets from the series. I think I still have several
storyboards for my episodes -- e.g. the script translated
into the sketch framework of scenes that guide the animators
in assembling the show. I haven't scanned them electronically
but I kept all that stuff from that time. In addition I
did four Ghostbusters and four BraveStarr
episodes. Today I am doing interactive media productions
-- have worked at Paramount and talking to Disney, as well
as corporate/information productions for the web/CD-ROM
and hybrids. I also teach the certificate course in Interactive
Media Writing at American Film Institute (AFI) in Hollywood
and two 10-week courses on interactive media at UCLA Extension.
So
you have kept items from your days of Filmation?
I'll
have to check my storage box to get all the production titles
for my episodes, but yes I think I still have the model
sheets for Sorrowful and most of the other characters. My
favorites are the storyboards, because they show the script
fleshed out and often they illustrate the initial production
approach that would later be either consolidated.
Did
you have any input in the He-Man show, or was She-Ra
your first Filmation job?
I
had been a story editor (staff) at Filmation in 1980, charged
with writing national network proposals for a variety of
Filmation product -- primarily the Archies and
what was then a new character called Sabrina in that set.
I left after my tour of duty was over (very cyclical business
-- network proposal season was then centered on March, so
once proposals were written, it was goodbye time) I came
back in 84 just as He-Man was winding down. Arthur
wanted new people who didn't have He-Man "baggage"
as well as staffers for the new She-Ra show.
What
can you tell me about your character Sorrowful?
In
the case of Sorrowful, the lead animator was a man (not
sure of the name) recently recruited from Disney who had
worked on Pete's Dragon -- the Disney feature,
he took the character into antic shtick that was not totally
intended. Sorrowful was written to be a comic foil to the
Bow character (She-Ra being the linking force getting them
to work together). As a comic figure, Sorrowful was the
gentle dragon shtick, terrified of the Horde types, and
ticklish. So when I (and the others) who wrote him, the
setup was always to get him scared by something, set up
a ricochet action in which he got tickled and then as he
laughed hysterically, his tail and size would cause all
sorts of havoc.
Do
you happen to know who voiced Sorrowful?
To
be honest, I'm not sure. I know that Lou popped in now and
then as a voice actor and that sometimes there were "cameos"
of famous actors Lou knew that showed up now and then but
this stuff was very hush hush in the production phase.
Can
you tell me some of the restrictions you faced writing She-Ra
scripts?
Working
at Filmation at that time (DIC was coming up strong) and
for Arthur Nadel, the script supervisor, producer and everything
else for the shows there where some prime directives that
explain a lot: A: No violation of Nature --- e.g. I had
a scene in my first script "The Laughing Dragon,"
where the villains pulled up trees and rolled them down
the hill. Not permitted -- the translation, as I remember
was that there was a setup shot of fallen trees and logs
which could then be thrown down upon She-Ra and company.
B: No hitting --- no character could hit another. C: Evil
Ricochet --- e.g. the villains always got theirs as a "hoist
on petard" ricochet effect -- they did something that
spun back on them. In this environment, creating jeopardy
was difficult if not impossible from a script standpoint.
Very hard to get things going, hence the antic character
of many of the episodes. Bravestarr got somewhat beyond
that, but not much. Even in my most violent episode, most
of the jeopardy came out of the dialog/threats rather than
actions.
I
noticed a lot of scripts had She-Ra mention that the Horde
Troopers were "robots," this was usually before
or after she had thrown them into a wall. Was this part
of the prime directives?
Your
comment about the "robot tag line" in battle scenes
is right on -- Nadel insisted on reminding the audience
that any violence involving the Horde figures was just "machines"
and he ALWAYS edited that line in, regardless. The usual
deal with the heroes was either an explosion nearby that
sent them scattering and/or falling into a handy pile of
hay or nearby pool (believable ways of eliminating the possibility
of injury). Usually an off screen sound effect drew characters
to look up and off camera and then scramble. Arthur Nadel
was the guiding hand behind all the shows -- Lou never worked
with the writers, he worked with the storyboard artists,
and Arthur was very very aware of the parent groups and
their influence over violence and the toy evolution also
took a line from the parent groups.
Did
you ever meet any of the voice actors?
I
met a few of the voice actors (minor roles) but not the
major ones. That was a very different track of production.
I have written over sixty original radio dramas for Sears/CBS
radio theater, Heartbeat, special productions -- and always
was involved right beside the director with the voice actors
in those productions. Animation is very similar (as a writing
task) to radio in that there are no "physical production"
issues --- and elaborate effects can be drawn or pieced
together without building sets etc. But usually, the voice
tracks on the shows were not the province of the writers.
Dialog elements were frequently changed in production. The
real thing writers were hired to do was create the "convergence"
of action and create a viable sense of story and character
jeopardy.
Did
you have trouble writing for the She-Ra characters?
She-Ra
was a tricky show to write in that it represented a complete
role reversal of He-Man. She-Ra was every bit the
power figure He-Man was, and this generated a couple of
delicate areas --- how to keep her feminine enough for girls
to relate to, while keeping her a power figure that was
credible, the second was her sidekick Bow -- a hunk hero
type, who also had to be credible, but was often played
for comic effect. Writing Bow was a very up and down proposition
-- he energized the battle scenes and often "set up"
the big She-Ra stunt, but he could never really
have the same kind of hero power she did. The other constraint
(and this was in the series bible, which I have, along with
the model sheets) was using the "hot movements"
footage. Arthur would note that a particular episode would
generate a particular and elaborate She-Ra "throw"
sequence. They would usually build very articulated major
character action sequences in the first twenty or so episodes
and then use them over and over again in the last 45 of
the 65 production run. So when scripts were edited, significant
story changes could happen in creating scenes that would
take advantage of these "hot clips" of She-Ra
or He-Man. These heavily animated segments tended to help
the audience forget the more "limited" animation
of the sub. characters.
She-Ra's
ally characters were nowhere near as popular as He-Man's.
The
She-Ra sub characters were not, to put it politely,
as interesting.
About
the non-violence of the shows, a few scenes would show She-Ra
hit a Horde Trooper, though usually off camera.
This
stunt was repeated many times -- the hero throws something
off camera and it lands on the villains etc. I had one episode
with She-Ra taking the onion dome off a building and tossing
it like a huge spinning top to land on the Horde types.
Arthur insisted that the building must be drawn to look
like a ruin so She-Ra didn't seem engaged in an act of wanton
destruction. In the above mentioned onion dome sequence,
I wrote that particular stunt to use her (then recently)
developed "throw sequence". Again, remember this
is what my editors were really doing in the first draft
look at the script -- matching up the stock animation available
in the major action scenes and also shaping up the character
balance.
Can
you tell me about the She-Ra series bible?
Filmation
bibles were pretty well done, actually --- they give the
show setup and the activating stunts that make the characters
work. The She-Ra show was heavily dictated by the
toy considerations. My understanding (don't quote me on
this) is that the Horde pre-existed the She-Ra character
and that it was intended originally to provide a new adversary
for He-Man and friends. I never thought the Horde made a
good foil for She-Ra -- something a little cattier and more
feline would have been more fun to write. I admit to writing
in a variety of scenes with the flunky types doing their
"Yes, Mighty Hordak" shtick as a setup to what
were essentially comic interludes (e.g. every time the flack
brings bad news, he gets dropped through the floor or disposed
of in more interesting ways, mostly off screen sound effects.)
Interestingly enough, I was discouraged from using the Horde
every time -- I tended to be called in by Arthur at the
very outset of a 65 show production run for new ideas for
stories and at the end when they were looking even more
for new ideas. I don't think that Arthur cared much for
the Horde -- they were pretty pedestrian as villains go
-- and wanted different menaces to show up frequently.
Speaking
of villains, what did you think of Skeletor?
I
never thought Filmation came up with great villains. The
tendency to be very scrupulous about violence is part of
the reason why. Skeletor was about as interesting as an
insurance agent, frankly. His dialog was all over the top
shtick that had been worn out years before. Skeletor got
to the point where he was pure camp --- the whole takeover
thing really limits a character. It is this aspect of animation/action
that is parodied so cleverly in "Pinky and the Brain"
in Animaniacs. "What are we doing tonight, Brain?"
asks Pinky. "The same thing we do every night, Pinky"
growls Brain. "Take over the world." In BraveStarr,
the villains (particularly Stampede) were much more creative
and different at least. The Horde was so much on the edge
of comic shtick half the time that it was hard to crank
them as a menace -- we were encouraged to play all the Horde
except Hordak as bumblers that you never really had a sense
they represented anything. The other thing is that when
a character is committed to the kind of 'over the top' dialog
that Skeletor was -- the predictable, grimacing villain
patois there is literally nowhere to go with him. My personal
preference would be to make him more of a scheming, witty,
and even funny "spirit twin" to He-Man, rather
than this screaming caricature. I have always liked the
dialog setups between Bond and the Bond villains -- Mutual
respect, wariness and clever repartee in most cases. But
maybe that's too much for cartoons? It would have been better
if he had a build to the blow though. It's funniest when
a character has the violence kept latent as long as possible
and then explodes into out-of-control -- that is a very
easy shtick to play out --- Skeletor zoned to apocalyptic
at the drop of a hat and after a while it all became a lot
of "so what?"
You
used Rattlor didn't you? He was unheard of until you gave
him some air time.
Again,
I was a "veteran" and Arthur would let me get
away with more than some writers; also, at the end of the
65 episode cycle is when some of the lesser used characters
were picked up. Rattlor was in the bible but few had used
him so I deliberately chose him as a point of variance.
The problem here was that the more frequently used villains
had more "action sequences" already animated and
it was not uncommon to have "character switch"
happen in storyboard -- The artists would decide they wanted
to use another of the (essentially interchangeable) supporting
villains than the one I specified. I was one of "Arthur's
boys" -- E.G. People who had worked for him on other
shows...I knew a few of the other dudes who wrote for the
thing.
Do
you plan on writing for Saturday Morning Cartoons again?
I
haven't put a lot of energy in that direction recently,
but may check out the market again -- There are some more
production opportunities.
What
about Warner Brothers?
Would
love to do Animaniacs. I think Warners/Spielberg
are brilliant and the shows are a hoot to watch.
Many
of the Horde villains were not all that interesting, did
you find this too?
This
is in large part because Filmation was really a comic house
-- More was invested in the heroes than the villains in
terms of action sequences and toy identity --- This is somewhat
different than Marvel whose heroes were essentially an excuse
for families of exotic villains.
So,
all scripts were edited at a later stage?
It's
part of the animation game. The writer's role is to create
stunts, jeopardy, and action -- not character development.
Note that another production consideration was wardrobe
-- they would usually have She-Ra available in several outfits
already animated, but supporting characters generally had
to stay in the same wardrobe, even if it didn't really match
the story context.
What
was your most edited script?
"The
Locket" started out as a He-Man/She-Ra team episode
and was the most heavily retro edited of my shows because
of an editorial shift from Lou on the direction of the final
episodes.
That's
a big editing change, considering the final version of "The
Locket" has no He-Man to be seen.
I
confess -- it was again a toy issue. A new He-Man
rocket ship toy had been debuted and they wanted to give
it a play and so they asked initially for He-Man to show
up in that episode. Eventually they pulled back.
What
did the plot involve?
The
toy was the Laser Bolt, and the idea was to have She-Ra
caught up in the Horde dungeon and have He-Man stop by in
the Laser Bolt to attempt a rescue, but then get caught
up in stuff and have her rescue him. I never did see the
final on that one, but I'm sure they wrote most of the He-Man
stuff out if not all of it.
You
mention an editorial shift on the final episodes, what happened?
Not
sure, but my bet is they got tight on budget. The typical
tight budget issue was always to tighten purse strings and
it may have been the result of fewer clearances on the initial
independent syndication run that prompted the cutbacks.
Remember always, limited animation is largely an "assembly"
process after the initial 20 episodes. Keep in mind that
limited animation, done to budget, in mass orders (65 episodes
produced in four to five months) does create the need for
economies and other issues. The script editing was an issue,
but we all understood it was necessary -- Arthur didn't
want "preachy" theme shows, he wanted the characters
value to stand out and so I can say I never felt that the
editing (mostly done for cost or larger series issues --
E.G. this character is featured over that one -- were that
problematical.
Didn't
all this hold back the show?
Not
really. The writers were there to generate ideas and action
sequences for the real artists who made the show. I understood
my role to be as such and had no problem with it. I always
included memoranda suggesting action sequences in my scripts
and many times I was listened to --- particularly in Bravestarr.
Do
you feel that Arthur had no choice but to make these changes?
The
shows were expressions of Arthur as he was, more than Lou.
Had Lou been editing them they might have had more punch,
but Lou's values were very media sensitive -- particularly
re: kids and violence. Remember also that Filmation was
always a "happy show" house with heritage in things
like the Archies, so the dark themes in the He-Man
series were very much a departure. Not even their network
Flash Gordon had as much real evil in it. The trick
to writing She-Ra I discovered was the "healing
hands" approach in which she counseled some character
in need of advice or support at the end of the show -- the
action stuff was there to keep the show moving.
Did
you ever get to work with the directors?
I
had zero involvement with the directors. Met none of them.
Arthur didn't encourage that --- he was very much the control
freak -- he was the one who negotiated changes in the finished
scripts with the directors/storyboard artists. The writers
were "bulk craftspeople" who cranked out the raw
material. I accepted animation for what it was -- there
were some writers who got much more nuclear about being
edited than I did, but I felt that the real mark success
for me as a writer was not the ultimate audience but to
inspire the animators to do their best work. My favorite
episode -- was a Bravestarr involving Stampede
and giant Shaman. The story really worked for everybody
and all the animators got into it big time. I was there
when they screened the climactic scenes for Lou and everybody
gave everybody else a round of applause!
How
many complaints did She-Ra receive from watchdog
groups?
That
was a particular time when TV as a whole was under fire.
The real basis of the complaint was not the shows but the
violence implicit in the toy line (He-Man). The
whole "I Have The Power" sequence at the heart
of each of the episodes was re-enacted by many as a child
against their parents -- the perfect child rebellion against
the father figure. I think Filmation did it as well as it
could have been done, but a lot of parents were upset at
the idea of the "30 minute" commercial the shows
were supposed to be for the toys.
Did
you enjoy working on She-Ra?
Yes,
She-Ra was a lot of fun, but not because of the
main character. The hardest thing was coming up with her
lines and situations and making them believable. To keep
her strong and feminine was a constant headache and most
of the editing sessions ran to the issue of what "She-Ra
should say here"...The other characters could be played
for valor, comic effect, or stunts, but She-Ra was the "the
franchise." The problem really came down to the toys
--- the She-Ra action figures were presented as
Barbie dolls with Bow as a spandex clad ken-boy.
The marketing dynamics got snuffed big time -- the only
real way to resolve the issue would be to make She-Ra some
kind of butch bull-dyke or something. Either that or match
her up with a female villain (something that should have
been done) the toy commitment to the Horde critters made
them necessary; yet they screwed up the dynamics of the
show big time. The Horde was really not a useful villain
for the show -- the toys were much more violent in concept
than the show ever played out. We just treated them as a
keystone cops (lots of "you idiot!) lines. The She-Ra
retinue was closer in concept to the Wizard of Oz
than I was ever comfortable with -- there was a ragtag quality
to it all that had to operate on comic dynamics and internal
rivalries. Actually it was much trickier to write She-Ra
than most action shows --- programs like Transformers
and Gobots were so proforma (E.G. "Screw you,
Optimus Prime" "Same to you Slimeball") Etc.
That they were almost monosyllabic. The only art there was
naming the new milk wagon-to-dragon robot shtick. But She-Ra
required some level of writing and character work.
