Toyguru Mattycollector.com MOTUC Mini-Comic Q&A Thread 2012 (SPOILERS)

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Originally Posted by Wolfman Jake

I agree. This new telling of the story with wanton bloodshed just isn't what Masters of the Universe was all about, ever. There was PLENTY of room for moving the story forward (and backward) in this line by expanding on New Adventures, Powers of Grayskull, and King He-Man/Son of He-Man. Killing off characters so far seems to be just for the sake of shock value and being "edgy." New Advenutes is in space. Have most of the original cast stay behind on Eternia. Done. Line moved forward. Tell more tales of King Grayskull from the Powers of Grayskull era. New characters. New stories. Done. King He-Man exists several decades in the future. Many characters are now elderly and retired or passed away. New Characters. New stories. Done. We love this property not in spite of the Filmation series, but BECAUSE of it. We KNOW this is a celebration of a children's toyline. I can still cherish and collect these figures without feeling embarassed by a children's cartoon/30-minute commercial series from the mid 80's. What has so far been a bumpy but enjoyable ride with MOTUC now just seems to have gone terribly sour in the very year it was supposed to celebrate 30 years of fandom. Iconic characters are being discarded with little thought, in some cases, their very heroic natures are being trashed and devalued. We've got several incoming figures over the next year or two that are already DOA. I'm not very excited about adding corpses to my display shelf.

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Originally Posted by Eternian Poet

Saurod.

End of debate :sklol:

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Calix was killed by Hordak for speaking up.
Pre-Filmation had He-Man slaying the Glorm in the Ram Man mini-comic.
King Grayskull died while banishing Hordak in MYP.
Zodak's brother was eaten by King Hsss in MYP.
Evil Warriors slew Palace Guards in MVC's 200X comics.

We've had death in MOTU before. Mind you, not with any major characters. I do agree that these deaths seem to be shock value deaths, moreso than a well-written, natural outcome.

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Originally Posted by MegaGearMax

Calix was killed by Hordak for speaking up.
Pre-Filmation had He-Man slaying the Glorm in the Ram Man mini-comic.
King Grayskull died while banishing Hordak in MYP.
Zodak's brother was eaten by King Hsss in MYP.
Evil Warriors slew Palace Guards in MVC's 200X comics.

We've had death in MOTU before. Mind you, not with any major characters. I do agree that these deaths seem to be shock value deaths, moreso than a well-written, natural outcome.

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Exactly. Those characters existed simply to die, either for shock value or as explanations of the motivations of other key characters. They were never going to have figures made of them. King Grayskull lived almost 5,000 years before Adam, so of course he's dead. His death told a greater part of the story, the origin of the Power of Grayskull and how it has been handed down through the ages. On the other hand, you have a former C-list character (and one of the few represenations of a real world minority group within MOTU) who gets to finally take the spotlight...by straight up ramming a giant pair of pliars through the chest of the second most recognized good guy in MOTU. Oh, don't forget that he was magically, instantly turned into a bad guy first and nothing could change him back, except when they totally did change him back.

Oh, and don't forget either, Orko has commited genocide. Yeah, it's that simple. He killed an entire race of sentient beings. Some food for thought.

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Originally Posted by Wolfman Jake

Exactly. Those characters existed simply to die, either for shock value or as explanations of the motivations of other key characters. They were never going to have figures made of them. King Grayskull lived almost 5,000 years before Adam, so of course he's dead. His death told a greater part of the story, the origin of the Power of Grayskull and how it has been handed down through the ages. On the other hand, you have a former C-list character (and one of the few represenations of a real world minority group within MOTU) who gets to finally take the spotlight...by straight up ramming a giant pair of pliars through the chest of the second most recognized good guy in MOTU. Oh, don't forget that he was magically, instantly turned into a bad guy first and nothing could change him back, except when they totally did change him back.

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With MAA his death seemed to me like a kill-or-be-killed scenario for Clamp Champ. So he did kill him and the spell reversed his transformation but it was too little too late. I don't think it is a terrible story being told and I'd rather see him die in battle rather than retire like his predecessor. If all these warriors just grow old then why were their battles so dangerous if there is no real risk. I only wish the deaths were given adequate coverage instead of being killed of camera. Imagine if Obi-Wan had died off camera, no one would've felt any sort of loss and I feel that is what we are seeing done in these minis. I feel like a celebration or ceremony honoring the fallen should've been included. Oh and I don't see how a wounded and weakened Skeletor killed Hordak, it seems highly unlikely to me.

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Originally Posted by wundarwarrior

With MAA his death seemed to me like a kill-or-be-killed scenario for Clamp Champ. So he did kill him and the spell reversed his transformation but it was too little too late. I don't think it is a terrible story being told and I'd rather see him die in battle rather than retire like his predecessor. If all these warriors just grow old then why were their battles so dangerous if there is no real risk. I only wish the deaths were given adequate coverage instead of being killed of camera. Imagine if Obi-Wan had died off camera, no one would've felt any sort of loss and I feel that is what we are seeing done in these minis. I feel like a celebration or ceremony honoring the fallen should've been included. Oh and I don't see how a wounded and weakened Skeletor killed Hordak, it seems highly unlikely to me.

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Except that Obi-Wan died to give Luke and company time to escape the death star. He transcended his flesh and became "even more powerful" as he continued to help Luke develop into a true Jedi Knight. Duncan got screwed. How would Star Wars have worked if Obi-wan had turned to the darkside of the force with a wave of Vader's hand, only to be rammed through the chest by some rebel flunky with a steel girder?

Also, Skeletor regain his Havok Staff from a disintigrating King Hsss before taking on Hordak, so I'm guessing his "power level" was restored to normal. Also, Skeletor wasn't wounded until Hordak hit him with saw blades with his dying breath. That was probably the most clear-cut major event covered in three panels of the whole mini-comic. Everything else is just question marks.

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Originally Posted by bcrduke

Castle Grayskullman.

Sorceress dead.

Stratos dead.

Mekaneck dead.

Hordak dead.

Duncan dead.

Spector.

Evil-Lyn without powers.

That's all I have to say.

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Reminds me of X3:The Last Stand!:hmlol:

How do you have a war without death? There are only so many times you can banish the villains or heroes. Also, if you kill off the supporting cast that paves the way for new figures, er I mean characters. cough cough 80's Transformers movie. :skgrin:

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Originally Posted by Wolfman Jake

I agree. This new telling of the story with wanton bloodshed just isn't what Masters of the Universe was all about, ever..... We love this property not in spite of the Filmation series, but BECAUSE of it. We KNOW this is a celebration of a children's toyline....

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(quote snipped heavily...) Go back to pre-filmation. DC mini-series and even initial mini-comics. Wanton bloodshed was absolutely part of MOTU. And MANY of us got into MOTU before Filmation drastically changed the story.

As for loving the property because of Filmation, you are generalizing. While it was extremely popular, you can't assume that Filmation MOTU is the end all for everyone. Honestly, the Filmation storyline was what made me turn away from MOTU as a kid.

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Originally Posted by musclor

(quote snipped heavily...) Go back to pre-filmation. DC mini-series and even initial mini-comics. Wanton bloodshed was absolutely part of MOTU. And MANY of us got into MOTU before Filmation drastically changed the story.

As for loving the property because of Filmation, you are generalizing. While it was extremely popular, you can't assume that Filmation MOTU is the end all for everyone. Honestly, the Filmation storyline was what made me turn away from MOTU as a kid.

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True, but even with a much more bloodthirsty He-Man in some early comic adaptations or mini-comics, I doubt Mattel let the authors kill off anyone they wanted to market on the cardbacks of their products. Hey, kids, check out the next DOA hero you can have in your ever expanding Masters of the Universe graveyard! Collect all of your favorite characters who were killed off-panel!

If a more violent and bloody MOTU is what you like, I think they've put in plenty of nods to that older take with the MOTU line with characters like Vikor, a much more Conan-esque "He-Man", right down to possibly collecting bones from his vanquished foes to adorn himself. And don't forget about another nod to the early days of MOTU, Vykron! In his very fictional appearance, he gets torn in half by a giant gorilla! Ouch. Oh well. Plus, we have plenty of characters historical to Prince Adam who we know have to die at some point over a period of 5,000 years, like King Grayskull and He-Ro. Their deaths are central to the story as well, and have meaning, and dare I say, beauty. Finally, He-Man is supposed to be timeless, and you lose that when you decide to have a big war and kill off tons of characters just for the sake of it. It's even worse when you pay no respect to the characters you kill either.

By the way, how old were you in 1982? I'm just a bit surprised that someone young enough to be collecting action figures would be cynical enough to disown their accompanying cartoon series.

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3rd Mini-comic Mekaneck question

If the Snake Men's DNA was split apart with the Spell of Separation, then was Mekaneck saved and restored to normal?

Mekaneck was changed into a Snake Man, not a Snake Man that was created. The Spell didn't kill him, but it didn't change him back either.

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It looks like Mek is gone too...someone probably killed him.

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Originally Posted by Wolfman Jake

True, but even with a much more bloodthirsty He-Man in some early comic adaptations or mini-comics, I doubt Mattel let the authors kill off anyone they wanted to market on the cardbacks of their products. Hey, kids, check out the next DOA hero you can have in your ever expanding Masters of the Universe graveyard! Collect all of your favorite characters who were killed off-panel!

If a more violent and bloody MOTU is what you like, I think they've put in plenty of nods to that older take with the MOTU line with characters like Vikor, a much more Conan-esque "He-Man", right down to possibly collecting bones from his vanquished foes to adorn himself. And don't forget about another nod to the early days of MOTU, Vykron! In his very fictional appearance, he gets torn in half by a giant gorilla! Ouch. Oh well. Plus, we have plenty of characters historical to Prince Adam who we know have to die at some point over a period of 5,000 years, like King Grayskull and He-Ro. Their deaths are central to the story as well, and have meaning, and dare I say, beauty. Finally, He-Man is supposed to be timeless, and you lose that when you decide to have a big war and kill off tons of characters just for the sake of it. It's even worse when you pay no respect to the characters you kill either.

By the way, how old were you in 1982? I'm just a bit surprised that someone young enough to be collecting action figures would be cynical enough to disown their accompanying cartoon series.

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I was 7 in 1982 and I liked the Alcala mini-comic canon the best. While it was neat to see the characters animated on screen, it was so kiddified from the original material that the show was off-putting. He-Man and Battle Cat were suddenly the disguise of some prince and his pet? A cartoony wizard? MAA had a moustache? The Goddess looked like Zoar?

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Originally Posted by MegaGearMax

I was 7 in 1982 and I liked the Alcala mini-comic canon the best. While it was neat to see the characters animated on screen, it was so kiddified from the original material that the show was off-putting. He-Man and Battle Cat were suddenly the disguise of some prince and his pet? A cartoony wizard? MAA had a moustache? The Goddess looked like Zoar?

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Man-At-Arms ROCKED that mustache, and you know it! :hmlol:

Here's my attempt at a short, direct question that, I hope, Toyguru will consider answering:

Is this really the end for Duncan? Such an iconic and beloved character warrants a little more "face time" in MOTUC, I think. While a heroic death for his character is fitting, his end as it has been depicted so far seems far too cruel for the defacto leader of the Masters of the Universe. Might we at least see the most recognized royal Man-At-Arms restored or redeemed in the future of the Classics fiction, even if he never again takes on his formal mantle?

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Originally Posted by MegaGearMax

It looks like Mek is gone too...someone probably killed him.

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Ok so what did the spell do to him then?!?! Their response doesn't make sense to me. I don't see how he became something different after the spell instead of just becoming human.

You're probably right though about him dying some random death, most likely at the hands of a wounded Horde trooper in Mattel's canon. I really wish they would give more of a story to these characters we all appreciate and spend money and time enjoying.

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Originally Posted by wundarwarrior

Ok so what did the spell do to him then?!?! Their response doesn't make sense to me. I don't see how he became something different after the spell instead of just becoming human.

You're probably right though about him dying some random death, most likely at the hands of a wounded Horde trooper in Mattel's canon. I really wish they would give more of a story to these characters we all appreciate and spend money and time enjoying.

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The Horde were working with the Snake Men.

I think a good guy put him out of his misery, since there is no cure to being transformed into a snake man. Wouldn't it be a hoot if Clamp Champ caught a second body that day?:hmlol:

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Originally Posted by MegaGearMax

All kidding aside, I think "Mattel Management" wants Classics and possibly the entire MOTU brand to shed it's "hokey" Filmation "everything gets solved in 30 minutes/nothing ever changes/corny characters" stigma. Management said that they wanted to move the story forward, something that fans might not be used to. The status quo is always kept. Hell, I remember a Q&A that said that He-Man kills in this canon, although he prefers not to take a life.

However, we can have MOTU with a changing status quo. We saw this in the later mini-comics, New Adventures and MYP and no characters had to die doing this.

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Yeah who answers those Q&A's? Oh yeah...the guy who's character makes it out squeaky clean to the new "bright future" with Sir Laser Lot.

Not hating, just saying "note your source." lol

Wow...I almost hope Mek was killed by someone rather than continue to exist as a Snake Man...

I'd love TG to elaborate.

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Originally Posted by MegaGearMax

I think a good guy put him out of his misery, since there is no cure to being transformed into a snake man.

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No cure? Teela seemed to whip one up right quick after her dad got "The Clamps!" ;)

Regarding possible deaths, I think the question we need to really be asking is this one:

Where were Battle Cat and Swift Wind during the final battle with Hordak/Skeletor?

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Originally Posted by Wolfman Jake

No cure? Teela seemed to whip one up right quick after her dad got "The Clamps!" ;)

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King Hsss' spell was weakened because Duncan was dying.

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Originally Posted by Jun-Yor

Why the necesity of killing anyway? Masters of the Universe was never like this before....does everything have to "get real" now? Just my opinion.

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Same thing happened with GI Joe: Resolute; they were so busy reveling in "hey, we're mature and we kill of characters" that they forgot to actually have a story and characterization. Killing off characters without having it be something to move the stpry forward or motivate the characters is simply lazy storytelling by creatively bankrupt writers.

That said, I can't comment here because I haven't read the books yet, namely because I don't have microscopic vision for the print. Did anyone responsible for these ever even look at the old minis? Doing a mini-comic means formatting the comic to fit comfortably in the space provided. In other words, you make pages that work and are easily read in the size you target. You don't do a regular comic book made for the standard comic size and simply shrink it down by half.

Seriously, I only need glasses for distance. I can read a phone book fine without them, even with a slight astigmatism developing, but I get a headache trying to read these.

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I almost hope Mek was killed by someone rather than continue to exist as a Snake Man...

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I agree ! Personally, I didn't buy Snake MAA, and I surely won't buy a snake Mekaneck !

I'm a BIG fan of the Snakemen though, AS LONG as they're cool looking evil snakes (Rattlor, Hssss, Tung Lashor, Kobra Khan, Snake Face, Sssqueeze and the Snakemen Warriors), but I really can't stand "snakefied" heroic warriors. No more lame variants, please !

I still don't get how Evil-Lyn's allegiance can work:

At the beginning of the SUB she's allied with Hordak
Next we see the New Sorceress depowering her

But at which point should she find herself allied with Skeletor?

After the depowering she obviously cannot fight on ANY side
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But before the depowering Skeletor and the New Sorceress are on the same side - so if EL joins Skeletor before the depowering why should the New Sorceress strip her ally EL of her powers?!?

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Originally Posted by Irian

I still don't get how Evil-Lyn's allegiance can work:

At the beginning of the SUB she's allied with Hordak
Next we see the New Sorceress depowering her

But at which point should she find herself allied with Skeletor?

After the depowering she obviously cannot fight on ANY side
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But before the depowering Skeletor and the New Sorceress are on the same side - so if EL joins Skeletor before the depowering why should the New Sorceress strip her ally EL of her powers?!?

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It's not just Evil-Lyn...Photog is fighting Clawful and Whiplash in that battle. Maybe the Evil Warriors turned on the heroes at some point.
This battle looks so cool, but it's raw chaos to keep track of the mini-comic and the bio information!

I think TG shot himself in the foot when he tried to make it only two sides (He-Man/She-Ra/Skeletor vs Hordak/King Hsss/Independent Villians) instead of a four sided battle (He-Man/She-Ra vs Skeletor vs Hordak vs King Hsss).

It's a war. I fully expect death and prefer it. I love the storyline.

I keep reading comments like "how can you have a war without death?"

Sure, deaths are fine.

But come ON.

SO FAR in the past year, we have these characters dead... Without much fanfare I might add:

Sorceress
Man-At-Arms
Hordak
Mekaneck
Stratos
Kobra Kahn... And the rest of the Snake Men

Those are SIGNIFICANT deaths.

Characters like Evil-Lyn and Teela have been significantly changed. That's fine for Teela... But why, exactly was Evil-Lyn stripped of her powers?

Was she too interesting? Was it not ok for a female character to be THAT bad-ass?!

I mean, really. It's just not fun.

It's all one big colossal prank, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by bcrduke

I keep reading comments like "how can you have a war without death?"

Sure, deaths are fine.

But come ON.

SO FAR in the past year, we have these characters dead... Without much fanfare I might add:

Sorceress
Man-At-Arms
Hordak
Mekaneck
Stratos
Kobra Kahn... And the rest of the Snake Men

Those are SIGNIFICANT deaths.

Characters like Evil-Lyn and Teela have been significantly changed. That's fine for Teela... But why, exactly was Evil-Lyn stripped of her powers?

Was she too interesting? Was it not ok for a female character to be THAT bad-ass?!

I mean, really. It's just not fun.

It's all one big colossal prank, in my opinion.

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Those deaths probably DID send major shockwaves through Eternia.

The main problem is that we aren't seeing the effect these deaths are having on the world and the remaining characters. I would have loved to see Teela's reaction to the Sorceress being her "mother" and the reveal of Adam being He-Man. We are getting bullet points through really short and limited mini-comics and a paragraph in the bios, but we'd need a medium that's continuous, like an ongoing or much bigger comic book, novel, cartoon or DTV movie.

It's like trying to tell Secret of the Sword in 8 pages.:hmlol:

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Originally Posted by bcrduke

Characters like Evil-Lyn and Teela have been significantly changed. That's fine for Teela... But why, exactly was Evil-Lyn stripped of her powers?

Was she too interesting? Was it not ok for a female character to be THAT bad-ass?!.

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:hmeek:

Yeah... we have VERY different opinions of Evil Lyn...

There was a TIME when she was just 'Evil Henchmen #3.' An evil sorceress who was feared the same as any of Skeletor's collection of monsters...

and that was COOL. I LIKED her as a strong powerful bad guy who could stand with the big boys and hold her own...

Starting around 200x and forward... her character became ... so USELESS. Between the CONSTANT goal of 'freeing XXXX' and betraying Skeletor... to the INSISTANCE of turning her into a LOVE interest for Skeletor...

SERIOUSLY.... SKELETOR!!! What kind of FREAK is into skull faced meglamaniacs?? Skeletor... the overlord of Destruction is the ONE bad guy who has no NEED of a 'love interest'... Yet the 'only girl' on the team got shoehorned into 'baby-mama' role...

Add in that MVC had the story of Keldor going back in time and getting her as a baby... and it's REALLY creepy all around...

But yeah... MOTUC just continued the tradition of Evil Lyn screwing up, by adding in the likes of Gygor to her 'free and get betrayed by' list...

I have a REALLY hard time thinking of her as 'awesome' or 'cool' anymore. In fact I can't think of ANY other Evil warriors more instrumental to Skeletor's failures then her. She beats out Mer-man, beastman... Even dumb Clawful was more useful to have around then her ;)

The '87 movie has REALLY become her ONLY redeeming quality.... I think Depowered and sent away was just a mercy at this point :sklol: