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You guys aren't true fans because you don't have your nostalgia goggles plus 10000% resist to anything new, yet they compel you to watch it regardless.
On a more serious note, I am sure they can do something good. Pretty much the worst thing about the Prequels is the Phantom Menace (acting issues aside) all the bad stuff revolves around that movie. and the fact they didn't get someone to proofread the second draft which is what they went live with.
Not to divert this whole thing into a prequel tangent, but I actually feel the biggest problem with the prequel trilogy is the acting/script revolving around Anakin and Padme in Episode II. Because it's such a huge part of the story, that it came across so awkward, clunky, and poorly executed drags everything down with it. (And to be honest, I was extremely underwhelmed by Portman.)Quote:
Originally Posted by wyldman11
That's really my biggest concern about the new movies - but personally, I think when Lucas isn't calling all the shots himself (i.e., when someone else is directing), things seem to improve tremendously, so I think having a new director who will actually work with the script and the actors and focus on performances as much as, if not more than, special effects, should avoid the foibles of the prequels.
That's part of the reason I still blame the first movie, the characters were too young to really start that relationship. If they were older to begin with it would have allowed them to start developing the relationship more that way in the first movie instead of making some cheesy montage. That is really one of the few plot points actually brought over from the first movie in fact, but their relationship isn't exactly romantic. The others being the Sith are back and there is unrest in the republic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatman
Basically the first movie doesn't really add anything to the overall story. In fact most of the characters that are introduced die off, the others are aged to the point they are almost different people. The fact you can watch the movies without watching Episode 1 says something. I have heard the best way to watch the movies is 4,5, 2, 3, 6..... 1 if you want to.
I do agree with you that Lucas is great on the idea but needs someone else to film and polish it up for him.
I can't say I agree with this. I think Phantom Menace is bashed primarily because people hate Jar Jar. As a whole I think it is the most tolerable of the prequels. Yeah Episode 2 and 3 were more serious, they had cooler moments, but everything from the narrative, to dialog, to the acting was atrocious. However all of the prequels miss the mark for me. I don't think they were what anyone was expecting them to be, and based on George Lucas's original notes for them (from the early 80s) they are not at all what he had planned when working on the OT.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyldman11
I'm not the type to overreact and claim George Lucas violated my childhood or anything, but he'd clearly changed much from the time he made the original film. So much so that he no longer told the originally intended back story and I think most fans pick up on that. They are fun movies for sure. They just seriously don't live up to the originals in storytelling or acting.
I like the prequels very much. I'd have to say that the prequel/late republic era is my favourite time period in Star Wars. If there's a problem with them, it's that I think it was too much story to fit into three films.
Episode I--one of my favourite of all the films. When it came out I was filled with wonder at how many new places, species, ships, droids, and such were going to expand the universe. Jar Jar was overdone but in very small doses he's okay (ie: a couple of the CW episodes). Apart from that I really liked the film. Also notable for having the best lightsaber duel in the franchise, and one of my favourite Jedi (Qui-Gon). And for the time, the CG battle b/w the gungans and droid army was pretty sick.
Episode II--actually the only Star Wars film I haven't seen in theatres, and my least favourite of the lot. As others have said, the love story was awful. Anakin's story picked up steam with his visiting of Tatooine and the slaughter of the sand people. Obi Wan's picked up when he visited Kamino. Loved Jango Fett (and his video game "Bounty Hunter" is still something I play once in a while, to this day).
Episode III--the best of the three (and imo, better than ROTJ). Wish there was more with Chewbacca but otherwise I was quite satisfied.
Eh, I tend to resent E2 a little more too (there's just no excuse for how bad that romantic dialogue is), but you don't think the acting, dialog, and narrative were all atrocious in TPM too? It did take a lot of work to make Christopher Lee as your villain seem bland, but I had problems with those dumb aliens in TPM too. "Is that....regarl?" Blech.Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle_Brak
ROTS is actually my second favourite Star Wars film, after ROTJ. I think it’s a beautiful film. It’s certainly the most stylised and operatic of the bunch (all six). I don’t care if that makes me sound like a pretentious fool. Meticulously crafted and definitely the closest to Lucas' original vision.
It’s pretty much the only film of the prequels you could tell he really wanted to make. The story for it has pretty much been in his head for the last thirty years or so. TPM and AOTC were filler. He only did them because he backed himself into a corner. It needed to be a trilogy, after all. The best thing about ROTS is that it works perfectly as a stand-alone film. It’s really the only prequel that's actually needed. I don't hate TPM and AOTC, BTW.
Episode I: I pretty much agree with everything Whiplash7 said. It's a flawed film, but it gets a lot right and you can tell the people working on it were passionate about what they were making.
Episode II: This is for me the worst film in the series from an artistic point of view. So many elements in the plot makes little sense:
Why would a bounty hunter hire another bounty hunter to do his work?
Why would Palpatine use the DNA of that bounty hunter to build a clone army? It seems like a dead giveaway that the Seperatists are tied with whoever ordered the clones.
Why does anyone immediately trust to use this army knowing they have a certain level of mind control and were ordered by an anonymous party?
In addition to the distracting nonsensical plot issues, the acting and dialog are some of the worst I've seen in a film with that kind of budget. It's hard to imagine a director so inept that he can make Christopher Lee or Samuel L. Jackson sound flat, but somehow Lucas managed. I do give Episode II some credit though because it's the only prequel that really tells its own story without just feeling like 2 hours of set up and exposition.
Episode III: By far my least favorite Star Wars movie, and the only one I genuinely strongly dislike. There are many things wrong with this movie whether you are watching it as a fan, or an artist, or just your average moviegoer. It's just a mess. I could lay out a long list of all of the artistic and technical problems with the film, but that would be a waste of time. The primary issue with the film is that it doesn't present the fall of Anakin Skywalker in a convincing or compelling way. The key turning point in the story (the entire saga really) came off as a joke. To me, as a fan, there was absolutely nothing believable about it, and the acting and characterizations of everyone in the film were so hollow and unrelatable that there was no emotional weight to it. I thought it was a story that was just too good to screw up but I was wrong.
The acting was sub par in The Phantom Menace as well, but II and III are far worse in my opinion. Hayden Christensen alone drags them down below the quality of Episode I, but I think the acting across the board got worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbagok
The video game I referenced tells the story of that. Palpatine wanted a rogue dark jedi killed, as she ran a deranged cult that was a threat to him. Dooku put out a contest for a hunt, the winner not only elimanating her but also proving his mettle to be the source for the clone army.Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle_Brak
After that he mostly lived on Kamino and trained the Clones, so he outsourced the work. It also would have complicated the trail to have Zam Wessel do the job.
I agree with you about everyone all of a sudden trusting the clone army. Well not so much trusting them, but trusting their source, and very existence. Especially once it's revealed that Jango works for Dooku. Bizarre.
I guess we're complete opposites when it comes to Episode III. I pretty much agree with everything Krueger said.
While I don't like Jar Jar I don't hate him either. I didn't like when the funny was presented, and I have never been a fan of slapstick humour like his.Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle_Brak
The real problem with TPM is it doesn't do much to really set up the rest of the story, and starts the ball rolling for what is bad in the other movies. I still hold that the first movie should have been set when Anakin was a bit older having already started his training. Qui Gon is Obi Wan's trainer who joins them for the problem they are dealing with. And the third movie being about the Clone Wars. But that is a whole other issue really. My point really is the other two movies don't really build off this movie at all and there is nothing introduced that really impacts the other movies.
Lloyd's acting was just as atrocious as Anakin's. To be fair the only time I have liked Anakin as a character is during the Clone Wars series where his emotional range etc is actually kind of allowed to play out.
But I have also seen Phantom Menace twice, and a third time as the Phantom Edit. Attack of the Clones about that many times, and Revenge of the Sith a few times in whole but watching several parts of it here and there.
To end on a fair note, TPM had a good tone, it was nice to see a brighter Star Wars. I like many other do like the Republic Era, I liked Qui Gon also, but it would have been nice to have gotten something out of him. I thought Maul was fine for a once off Villain, to show the Sith were coming back. Also I am strange in that Return of the Jedi and New Hope are my favorite Star Wars movies, and I could never really get into Empire Strikes back for some reason. I would say all six movies have their issues, just the PT could have used a few more drafts before making it to screen.
edit examples of what was bad in TPM
The Star Wars movies are told from the perspective of the droids right? C3Pio doesn't show up till after Anakin who shows up like 30 minutes into the movie. R2D2 does show up early though, but tends to rely on C3Pio to tell us what's going on.
The world of the Jedi has a lot of character, but the actual characters lack any real sense of personality which makes it hard to attach yourself to characters. This doesn't do well to set us up for the rest of the trilogy. Anakin comes off melodramatic compared to everyone else lack of emotion.
Since we’re already off topic,
Since you’ve seen the Phantom Edit, I have to ask have you seen Attack of the Phantom? The Phantom Edit was essentially the same movie as The Phantom Menace but with the fat trimmed out. But Attack of the Phantom feels almost entirely different than Attack of the Clones. The way the Phantom Editor cut the scenes made the Anakin/Padme love story much more believable and way less painful. It actually made me like Episode II. Well, the Phantom editor’s version anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyldman11
But back on topic, with all the talk of Hamill, Ford, and Fisher reprising their roles in the new trilogy, has there been any word about Billy Dee Williams? I’d really like to see Lando in the new movies as well. And I’ll stress again how much I really hope they go the Tron Legacy route and digitally render the main cast only a few years older than they were in ROTJ. Disney has to realize that what people really want to see is a continuation of the adventures of young and athletic Luke, Han, Leia, and Lando. While the sound of having the older cast pass the torch to the younger generation might sound nice in theory, I’m afraid that in reality it will be received like Indy 4. Let’s save the torch passing for episodes 10-12, which we know will get made anyway.
Never saw edits of the other movies.
And the problem with Indy 4 wasn't that they were passing the torch, the story was just uneven.
I think the lack of Sean Connery hurt it a little as well. John Hurt's character was obviously a replacement for Henry Jones Sr. It would have been more emotional if he was the one who lost his mind under the crystal skull's influence.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyldman11
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyldman11
The biggest problem was that in KOTCS they were trying to pass the torch to Shia LeBarf!!!!
To sum up my point of view :
Episode 1 to 3 : Can deal with that, but not really fan of them
Episode 4 to 6 : Even 35 years later the magic is till there and they are really great movies!
Now for episode 7 : Not Bad that Disney bought it (or another firm). We can have something better than what we had with episode 1 to 3. Lucas is important and I think having him as a consultant is great. We need someone else for directing. Disney will do something really close to episode 4 - 6 which is the real Star Wars. They won't prostitute the movies the way Lucas did. They do buisiness (so did Lucas), but they will do it right
just now saw this.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/11/...new-star-wars/
Lawrence Kasdan (writer of TESB & ROTJ) and Simon Kinberg (writer of X-Men: First Class & Sherlock Holmes) have signed on to write Episodes 8 and 9. It’s not known which one each writer will tackle. It seems that Disney really wants to get this right. Something tells me that Episode 7 will be received with more positivity than TPM got. Here's the article from The Hollywood Reporter:
I am very excited for the ST!Quote:
The pair will write either Episode VIII or Episode IX — their exact division of responsibilities is yet to be determined — and they will also come aboard to produce the films. Even under the secrecy of a Jedi mind trick, certain secrets — like the plans for a Death Star — can still spill out.
Lawrence Kasdan and Simon Kinberg have closed deals to write installments of the new Star Wars trilogy, sources tell The Hollywood Reporter. The pair will write either Episode VIII or Episode IX -- their exact division of responsibilities is yet to be determined -- and also will come aboard to produce the films.
As THR previously reported, Oscar winner Michael Arndt (Toy Story 3, Little Miss Sunshine) is writing the script for Episode VII, the first of the new trilogy and the first Star Wars film to be made without the hands-on input of creator George Lucas.
Kasdan and Kinberg would join Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy as producers.
Word of Kasdan and Kinsberg's involvement began spilling out Tuesday, but Disney and Lucasfilm are declining to comment. Official announcements regarding the new Star Wars will appear on StarWars.com, according to the studio.
Kasdan is a Lucasfilm and Star Wars vet. He co-wrote 1980’s The Empire Strikes Back, still considered the movie series’ zenith, as well as 1983’s Return of the Jedi. He also wrote the screenplay for Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Kinberg is co-writing the new X-Men movie, X-Men: Days of Future Past and was a producer on X-Men: First Class. He also is producing Cinderella for Disney.
Well, hopefully any future films do not involve yet another Death Star. It worked twice for the classic films, but for new Star Wars stories there needs to be new stuff, more original ideas.
Just a few more things I would like to see in the new Trilogy;
A cameo/focus on Dr. Evazan and Pondo Baba (those two were epitome of scum and villainy)
Millennium Falcon
Lando (which may be happening)
Wedge Antilles and Rogue Squadron (in X-Wings)
Epic Sith vs Jedi battles (which is also why I want the Sith rule to be more than two)
Epic Space Battles
I still can't believe we are going to get 7, 8 and 9 plus more. I have been wanting this since ROTJ.
A new Star Wars movie every other year is so exciting. Now the only thing they need is to actually be good.
It's been relieved Rick McCallum has left Lucasfilm. This can't be good for the live-action TV series :hmsad:
Actor Jason Flemyng (Azazel in X-Men: First Class) seemingly let slip in a video interview that Matthew Vaughn is pretty much going to be the director of Episode 7. He and Vaughn have worked together nine times and they're pretty close friends. Interesting. Vaughn was always near the top of my list of potential directors. You could do a lot worse. He's also a huge Star Wars fan (he snuck onto the Dagabah set from TESB when he was a kid), so I'm sure he'll put everything into Episode 7. He's pretty much the only director who's been consistently rumoured from day one. Also, don't forget, he left the X-Men sequel recently, so this would make sense.
wasn't he just more of a day to day production running guy and yes man? I don't think he made any creative decisions or was part of the creative process...Quote:
Originally Posted by 13977
Star Wars died with Episode 1. Maybe a new person in charge could bring it back to life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malev_Emperor
I agree with this analysis of Episode I. Episode I should have begun with Qui Gonn's funeral. What better way to create an air of danger with the death of a Jedi? What killed him? How did it happen? What power is strong enough to kill a freaking Jedi? Plus, it would have bookended nicely with Vader's funeral in ROTJ.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyldman11
I think he was the driving force behind the live-action TV series, I mean he's the only guy who ever talks about it in interviews.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredder
Hopefully the TV series will still see the light of day (but I'm not holding my breath), I believe the last we heard on it was that 50 episodes had been written, but that the series is on hold awaiting advances in technology and reductions in prices and that it would be at least another "three or four years".
--Updated--
Rumor are coming out that Star Wars Comics License Returning To Marvel:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sword2Blanket
http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/s...vel_149417.asp
I really hope this doesn't happen. Like you say Dark Horse has done a fantastic job and I'd hate to see it move away from them. At least if it did it wouldn't happen for a few years so DH would be able to wrap up story lines.