Official Masters of the Universe #5 (Vol.3) Talkback

[Ivotas]

Well there´s definite proof that the guys who takes baby Lyn isn´t Skeletor. In the panel where he says:"There is one more thing...I also require your staff." we can clearly see that he has a human mouth and nose. So he definitely is not Skeletor.

BTW, I don´t see why the Council of Wisdom and the Council of Elders or even the Ancients must be all the same. I do think that it is possible that there are more then just one of such groups. It could also makes sense with a possible return of She-Ra. After all the Elder´s power resides within Castle Grayskull but there´s must also be someone´s power residing within the Crystal Castle. And if I remember correctly (sorry but I don´t want to go through the whole thread again) it has already be stated that the one member of the Council of Wisdom who´s armor has a She-Ra reference could be Light Hope. I mean why not? It could all be possible. Just a thought.


Take care.

[Lucas Redux]

Well there´s definite proof that the guys who takes baby Lyn isn´t Skeletor. In the panel where he says:"There is one more thing...I also require your staff." we can clearly see that he has a human mouth and nose. So he definitely is not Skeletor.

Do you mean by "human" that it isn't a skull? If so your comment is addressed to whoever has been using Keldor and Skeletor interchangably, they didn't technically mean skeletor.

If it's Keldor - it's a variant no goatee. Also if this is Keldor this adventure could very well be the story of what turned him "evil" and thus earning him a goatee like Flexo or the bad Mr. Spock.

Maybe this comes before IOE beastman if the goatee indicates anything, but with time travel a Keldor with a havoc staff can be forced by a nameless one to retrieve a havoc staff for said nameless one and then a nameless one can give younger Keldor a havoc staff. Such is the weirdity of time travel.

[oICEMANo]

But whose to say that Keldor's race aren't near Immortal like Elves? It could be a young Keldor, or a descendant.... but my money is on a young Keldor.

[Ivotas]

Do you mean by "human" that it isn't a skull? If so your comment is addressed to whoever has been using Keldor and Skeletor interchangably, they didn't technically mean skeletor.

I was aware of the possibility that the names Keldor and Skeletor might be used interchangably. I didn´t want to go through the whole thread again to find the exact coutes so I just wanted to make clear with my previous post that the character who takes the baby doesn´t have a skull face.

As far as the goatee is concerned. Well that´s a valid point but be aware that all this happened eons before the events when Keldor was defeated buy Randor. I see no valid point why (if that character is Keldor) he shouldn´t have been able to let himself grow a goatee. I mean if Man-At-Arms can grow a mustache in something like sixteen or more years then Keldor must be able to do that in a couple of eons. And if he wasn´t able of that naturally, then I´m sure he must have had found a spell which allowed him to grow facial hair.

But whose to say that Keldor's race aren't near Immortal like Elves? It could be a young Keldor, or a descendant.... but my money is on a young Keldor.

Cool theory. After all Elves are magical beings aren´t they. And this blue skinned people have elven ears. I go with that theory until someone will prove me totally wrong (which is something that happens quite often).

Boy would I hate it if the comic would be cancelled. And I already hate it that Val and co. arent allowed to tell the story they want to tell. Is there really nothing we can´t to get them told beyond the efforts we´ve already tried?

I want to get that story told. You just can´t imagine how big a part MotU is in my life and the direction which the comic has taken is exactly that what I´ve always wanted MotU to be. You just can´t imagine how much it would pain me to loose the comic now, with the knowledge (or should I say impression) of the direction of where the comic could have headed. Please dear god. Let the comic live on and let MVC tell the story they want to tell! It would mean so much to me and I´m sure to many other fellow He-Fan´s too.


Take care.


Take care.

[Castle]

Man, that King Hsss is askin' for a royal beat down! Too bad Skeletor probably won't give it to him. Cuz, there's like one issue left of this story.

I too loved this issue. I'd be a bit unsure about volume 3 so far, with Adam moping around being guilty and the new colours, which just don't do it for me, though they fitted much better this issue than the previous ones.

And SKELEPIMP, you're totally right. I never liked the Snakes that much (I was always having the Horde kick their rears when I was a kid) but I'm definitely not liking Skeletor being humilitated AGAIN. I'll get no satisfaction unless when Hsss is finally defeated it's Skeletor who does it. Not He-Man, not Hordak - Skeletor. I don't care if it's in an issue or 50 volumes' time. Hsss has to die eventually, and I want it to be Skeletor who kills him.

Edd

[PanMan]

this was a great issue! probably the best so far. i loved how the whole issue was flashbacks. at first i thought it was only going to be that one panel where baby lyn gets kidnapped. then i turned the page and was very pleasantly surprised that there were two whole pages of flashbacks. i nearly ****ed my pants when i kept turning the pages and more pre-eternia was shown.

some little things that i noticed: MVC snuck the middle tower in there. first they showed it in issue 2, and now it's actually in the story. i'm sure val had to really fight to stick that in there (not to mention all the other stuff and people). gotta love old bald hiss too

also, when the faceless one rips off his belt/sash, why doesn't anybody else have this symbol on them? i noticed it was also on a banner on the wall. is this the symbol of the council of wisdom? if so, is the faceless one the leader. i doubt that he would be. maybe it is the symbol of zalesia?

anyways, great issue and a great story brewing. i don't know how you guys plan on finishing this arc in one issue though. it's gonna be one heck of an issue though. can't wait for skeletor to lay the smack down on hiss. i wonder if serpos will rage the planet again too. and i wonder what skeletor's staff is a key to. maybe evil lyns staff is another key? i wonder how many there are and what their for.

and for the preview for issue 6, at first i thought skelly was reaching for some sort of space ship. then after a while i noticed it was the power sword. i wonder if this is related to the story at all, or is just some random drawing (or maybe for the old arc that got cancelled?).

[npbaity]

I agree!

It's time for Skeletor to pay back the Snake Men (especially Hsss) in full for all of the humiliation! Revenge and Retribution must be his!

I just hope we get to see it! I hope the comic can continue somehow.

Long Live MOTU!!!!
In 2004 and ALWAYS!!!!

[Baena]

Neat!

I love these "history" type issues!

I need some time to ingest what I've read. And I just keep finding myself going back and studying each page meticulously.

I love it!

[npbaity]

Neat!

I love these "history" type issues!

I need some time to ingest what I've read. And I just keep finding myself going back and studying each page meticulously.

I love it!

I agree. It adds so much depth, color and grounding to the entire story.

I just hope that we get more of this MOTU goodness!

Long Live MOTU!!!!
In 2004 and ALWAYS!!!!

[samputar]

Im so mad that I can't get the comic right now, but i despretly want to see some pics, so can anyone send me some. The comic book shop i go to is next to Pasadena City College, the college i go to, and the semester docen't start untill August 30th and i have no cash. That means no cash for the bus ride and No cash for the comic. So, if someone can send me some or just one pic that would be totatly cool. The one pic im interested in the most is that of the Wizard with She-Ra's Clothing(?), "He-Ra"?

[Dr. R.K.Z]

My apologies then, Lucas. You quoted my post and then said, "1. Magical boost from the nameless one? I hate fanwanking like that."

I took this to mean that you misinterpreted my post and were calling me a "fan******" (whatever that means..).

Fanwank: A term given to a scenario where the author of a certain series or comic panders to the fanbase of said series or comic

Example: Power Rangers Dinothunder features the return of Tommy, this is "fanwanking", because several people on the P.R message boards practically begged for what was originally an idea to become complete reality

[Lucas Redux]

Fanwank: A term given to a scenario where the author of a certain series or comic panders to the fanbase of said series or comic

Firstly my total apologies for my being out of line in my past posts here. My thinking was much like as Val told me it's just a comic, I figured its just a post. Sorry.

However since I used the term fanwank on myself at myself the good Dr.'s definition might again make it look like I'm using the term against the authors.

I think this definition is more standard, note how it puts "fan" in the word

"2a) For those of you who are not familiar with the term, fanwanking is a name in fandom for the following familiar phenomenon: Something is depicted in an episode of some serial -- an episode of a television series or an issue of a comic, say -- that is out of keeping with the established continuity. Maybe a character did something that seems unlike him, like singing "Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer" even though he has in the past been shown to be remarkably ignorant of pop culture. Maybe somebody who has had a secret identity revealed to her acts as if she has no idea that Batman and Bruce Wayne are the same person. Maybe a villian who was clearly killed reappears to terrorize the populace. Whatever it is, viewers who notice it universally recognize it as a mistake, a continuity error. But then... Fanwanking is the term for inventing a tortured explanation within the world of the text that could explain away the inconsistency. See it in action here. (Notice that this writer complains, "Even the writers are fanwanking stuff now," which shows an interesting extension of the category.)

Related phenomena and terminology: the retcon (for "retroactive continuity") and the Marvel No-Prize." http://stuttercut.org/exam/archives/...ion/000300.php

As this applied to Dr. Omega's claim of an inconsistency between Keldor's powers in issue 5 versus IOE beastman, I - a fan invented "a tortured explanation within the world of the text that could explain away the inconsistency."

Lucas

[Telkan2]

I'm in the group of people who don't necssarily think that it was Keldor who took Baby-Lyn (as some are calling her--she was so cute, LOL)!

Here's what I think: I think the Council of the Wise was based out of Castle Eternia (hence the cat's face above them, and the "painting" of it in issue 2).

Th blue skinned woman who seemed to do most of the talking had alterier motives. She wanted Baby-Lyn for herself (for reasons not yet revealed). That is why she was so adamant about not helping the Lord of Zelasia.

I personally think that she arranged for the Snakemen to capture Baby-Lyn in the first place, and that it is she who stands beneath the cloak (hence the lack of facial hair, and the similar armbands). Once King Hsss returned the child to the Lord of Zelasia, she had no choice but to go to him herself and offer haven for Baby-Lyn. Realizing that she could also get her hands on one of the keys, she bargained with the Lord of Zelasia for the Havoc Staff (which explains how the cloaked figure knew about the key).

She spirited the child away and then returned moments later, along with the Counsel and He-Ro, to battle Serpos.

Now, the Faceless One makes reference to the Counsel defeating Serpos, but as King Hsss stated upon seeing the painting in the Faceless One's library, that could be "typical human propaganda."

I also think that Evil-Lyn ages very slowly (and very well), but her being a few centuries old would explain the gray hair.

Oh, and just another aside (this one seems to contradict my initial argument though): notice that Skeletor, on the preview cover for issue 6, has the same cloak clasp as the hooded figure in the flashback.

This is all so exciting! I can't wait for the next issue!

[Ivotas]

I personally think that she arranged for the Snakemen to capture Baby-Lyn in the first place, and that it is she who stands beneath the cloak (hence the lack of facial hair, and the similar armbands). Once King Hsss returned the child to the Lord of Zelasia, she had no choice but to go to him herself and offer haven for Baby-Lyn. Realizing that she could also get her hands on one of the keys, she bargained with the Lord of Zelasia for the Havoc Staff (which explains how the cloaked figure knew about the key).

She spirited the child away and then returned moments later, along with the Counsel and He-Ro, to battle Serpos.

Now eventhough your theory contradict´s completely what I believe (and that is that this person was in fact Keldor) I definitely like your theory. It somehow reminds me of the whole Palpatine/Darth Sidous thing in the Star Wars prequels. I really don´t think that this is the way MVC planned things but I must admit that it somehow just fascinates me.

Oh, and just another aside (this one seems to contradict my initial argument though): notice that Skeletor, on the preview cover for issue 6, has the same cloak clasp as the hooded figure in the flashback.

Well it appears that nobody mentioned it before so I guess I´ll say it now. The cloak from the hooded figure is exactly the same as the backside of the cape of the NECA Skeletor Statue.


Take care.

[Lucas Redux]

Interesting proposal on the identity of the mysterious kidnapper and the lack of a goatee, but Lyn's white hair seems to run in the family.

[ByThePower]

I must say that i am very impressed with the comic thus far
I own every issue and varrent other then the 44$ ones
I see issue 6 wrapping up this story arch with 7 and 8 being stand alone storys i maybe wrong. the art is amazing its changed over time but none the less it is beuatiful to look at. Any one else get the passing idea that this story arch is the icons of evil: evil lyn? we are seeing her "origin" to some degree. and everyone wanted an icon for her.
I fully enjoy and support any comic that can bring a world to life on the printed page more vividly then another company could on screen.
I hope beyond hope that this comic continues its the only regular comic i buy
i wait and wait for the masters comic and end up buying that and the ceap comic of the month this time it was the 12 cent batman which isnt half bad.

VAL (workaholic) and crew i hope that you get the pay off you deserve maybe mattel will loosen their grip
i can not wait for 6, 7, 8 and beyond.

[Psiberian]

I definitely agree with what everyone here is saying about how great this comic is in general and this issue specificly. I also agree that Mattel's handling of the whole situation sucks. Honestly, I'm getting sick of all of these good stories being started and not finished due to corporate mishandling. TV shows like Firefly and Oddesy Five, and now this...It seems like the better it is these days, the less likely it's going to finish.

Anyhow, on the issue of timelines - I sort of assumed that the events in this issue took place before the ones in the "Greyskull" cartoon...The Zalesia indescrepancy does seem to disprove this theory, but perhaps Zalesia was rebuilt? I know that the current-day setting is referred to as the ruins of Zalesia, but maybe it's an Old Zalesia/New Zalesia type situation, where some of the ruins are left as they were, but a new city was built either around them or in an area that was close, and this was the city that Greyskull visited in the cartoon.

The thing is, we know that the Elders reigned pretty much from the time that Greyskull gave them their powers until about 20 or so years before current time (When Randor was their general); so if this story took place after they got their powers, then the Council of Wisdom and the Council of Elders must both be in power at the same time - Not to mention the presence of He-Ro...Of course, we don't really know exactly how long the Elders were in power (Do we? I can't remember the toon that well), but I always assumed that He-Ro was before the time of Grayskull, not after...And then there's the question of who was banished first - The Horde or the Snakemen? They were both around in the time of Greyskull, weren't they? So it must have been Hordak - Unless the Snakemen had been banished and returned...

Blah...My head's starting to hurt - and it's way to late to be doing this much thinking. I think I need to see all of the relevant episodes together, 'cause this is pretty confusing...

Here's hoping MVC will stick around to help clear it up for us...

[Ivotas]

The thing is, we know that the Elders reigned pretty much from the time that Greyskull gave them their powers until about 20 or so years before current time (When Randor was their general); so if this story took place after they got their powers, then the Council of Wisdom and the Council of Elders must both be in power at the same time - Not to mention the presence of He-Ro...Of course, we don't really know exactly how long the Elders were in power (Do we? I can't remember the toon that well), but I always assumed that He-Ro was before the time of Grayskull, not after...And then there's the question of who was banished first - The Horde or the Snakemen? They were both around in the time of Greyskull, weren't they? So it must have been Hordak - Unless the Snakemen had been banished and returned...

It was the Elder´s who imprisoned Serpos the very first time. After that happened, King Hiss turned his shell into Snake Mountain. So it appears that the Elder´s where before the flashback story from issue 5 happened. And since they existed until the events in "The Beginning" it is very likely that both councils have coexisted.

Personally I don´t see any reason why the Council of Wisdom and the Council of Elders shouldn´t have existed in the same time. I mean if there can be more then one evil groups around at one time why can´t the same be the case for heroic groups.

As far as the Council of Wisdom is concerned. I´m not sure but it could be that this is a council formed of kings, lords or leaders of the different areas of Preternia. I mean the Lord of Zalasia is one of the council members. So it could also mean that the other´s are leader´s of their territories just like the Council Randor forms in the second season of the cartoon.

And I think Eldor is somehow a representative of the Elder´s (or at least I think he and He-Ro are somehow linked to them).

Now the question would be why it is the CoW and not the CoE who imprisons Serpos in this issue. I´m sure there must be a reason behind it. MVC didn´t do that by accident. They had a plan. Unfortunally with the current status of the comic I doubt that we will ever find out what was planned. But I´m a thousand percent certain that they have a plan and that it is not a continuity glitch.

Anyhow, on the issue of timelines - I sort of assumed that the events in this issue took place before the ones in the "Greyskull" cartoon...The Zalesia indescrepancy does seem to disprove this theory, but perhaps Zalesia was rebuilt? I know that the current-day setting is referred to as the ruins of Zalesia, but maybe it's an Old Zalesia/New Zalesia type situation, where some of the ruins are left as they were, but a new city was built either around them or in an area that was close, and this was the city that Greyskull visited in the cartoon.

I´m sorry but I seriously doubt that Zalesia was rebuilt. I mean this is the Faceless One´s backstory, meaning how the city became ruins. Ruins which he can´t leave because of his curse.

I mean it could be possilbe that the Faceless One could be roaming through a rebuild City of Zalesia but somehow it would lower the curse factor if he has to roam through a inhabbited city.


Take care.

[gbagok]

Right now I really think this is happening after Grayksull's death. I think the absence of the Council of Elders during these events isn't so hard to imagine, since they aren't present for most of the events in He-Man's time either. What if they've temporarily allowed He-Ro to personify their powers? I mean since He-Ro seemed to banish the Snakemen when the Elders were supposed to have done it, perhaps he and the Elders are somehow merged the way Adam and King Grayskull seem to be merged when he becomes He-Man. Perhaps the Elders saw the need for a champion, but it was too early for He-Man, so they gave stewardship of the Bright Hemisphere to the Council of Wisdom, and concentrated themselves into the crystal of He-Ro's staff or something.

That could be the basic set up for the Adventures of He-Ro on Preternia. The whole conceit of that series may be that it show us how we get from Grayskull's death to the set up we saw in the Beginning with the Elders ruling from the Hall of Wisdom. I don't know how to explain the cartoon attributing everything to the Elders and Zodak, but it may be as simple as history being rewritten (Hsss would probably agree).

The cartoon simplified a lot of things, and they were especially vague about Zodak's relationship to the Council and to Grayskull. He and the Elders ended up being a deus ex machina where the Snake Men and Serpos were concerned, and I found that frustrating. Why is He-Man even around when Zodak and the Elders could be saving the planet? Perhaps the explanation for that lies in He-Ro's story. I'm just guessing, I know there are holes/unanswered questions in that set up as well. Whatever the real plan is, I welcome any changes the comics can bring to add more complexity to the mythology. Yes I'd like comic and cartoon to fit together, but since the cartoon wasn't perfect, I can live with a few involved or convoluted plot twists to make it all work out. I really hope Mattel lets the comic continue with fewer (and definitely not more) restrictions.

[Oceanwalker]

Fair enough.

Just remember, the comic is for fun.
If you think it's an abomination, just stop reading and let the people who do like it enjoy the book.

And if you want to continue reading, then ease up on the reigns. I don't think we'll ever make you happy. You don't have to remind us in every comic thread how much you don't like it. We get the picture.

Val:

I don't understand you! LOL! These guys are passionate and discussing the fruits of your labor! As long as they do it respectfully what's the problem? It should be flattering! Don't take such offense - this is why you produce the comic right? To make people talk correct? Take the good with the bad!

No one will ever be completely happy with your take on things but at least you got them talking! I hope you'll see that as long as you guys produce comics that make fans talk and wonder that you're adding to the pot. Don't stifle discussion. Constructive criticism (good and bad) is GOOD!

[Lucas Redux]

snip As long as they do it respectfully what's the problem? It should be flattering! Don't take such offense - this is why you produce the comic right? To make people talk correct? Take the good with the bad!

snip Constructive criticism (good and bad) is GOOD!

My "criticism" was neither respectful nor constructive. I don't hate the comic either - I hate being told it's consistent with the cartoon when I don't agree it is (the two different flashbacks of serpos for example). Maybe "consistent" is what they think I want to hear.

[Oceanwalker]

My "criticism" was neither respectful nor constructive. I don't hate the comic either - I hate being told it's consistent with the cartoon when I don't agree it is (the two different flashbacks of serpos for example). Maybe "consistent" is what they think I want to hear.

Well, I've myself have tons of posts in this forum decrying that same fact - I've just accepted it. There are some glaring contradictions but the comic is still fun to read and I don't mind it getting my $$$.

[Lucas Redux]

snip
As far as the Council of Wisdom is concerned. I´m not sure but it could be that this is a council formed of kings, lords or leaders of the different areas of Preternia. I mean the Lord of Zalasia is one of the council members. So it could also mean that the other´s are leader´s of their territories just like the Council Randor forms in the second season of the cartoon.

snip

Now the question would be why it is the CoW and not the CoE who imprisons Serpos in this issue. I´m sure there must be a reason behind it. MVC didn´t do that by accident. They had a plan. Unfortunally with the current status of the comic I doubt that we will ever find out what was planned. But I´m a thousand percent certain that they have a plan and that it is not a continuity glitch.

Those leaders all seem to have magic powers also, but in that time period the most powerful seem best suited to rule.

Speculations on a plan...

Let's assume that issue 6 is going to preserve the duex ex machina ending and serpos is going to be taken care of. What makes more sense from a writing perspective assumming the comic isn't going to rely on the audience knowing the cartoon? Introducing the MYP elders for the first time into the comic or using a group that was shown in the previous issue to already have that serpos to stone capability. Hows that fit into a master plan? She-ra fans probably can attest to the fact that the King Grayskull origin of he-man doesn't leave any extra swords lying around, and we have HE-RA on the council.

If the MVC She-ra origin isn't radically changed she's still going to be getting her power from the same place he-man is, doesn't it make sense for her costume to be derived from someone in castle grayskulls basement rather than just some random guy who was important a few thousand years ago?

In the original minicomics the ancients (who are very similar to the MVC council of wisdom - 3towers, He-ro, council of wizards for example) built the power swords http://www.he-man.org/primary_sects/...00/09-10.shtml

(this issue King of the Snakemen, and the Ultimate Battleground (3 towers) comic establish that Elders [in KoS] and Ancients [in UB] are synonymous 80's terms because the snakmen banishment stories)

Ok maybe I'm wrong about the elder council = wisdom council despite what I just said, but if there's a reason and a plan for the addition of the council of wisdom with a guy in a she-ra costume its probably to make room for bringing she-ra in and she-ra's sword origin.

[gbagok]

Let's assume that issue 6 is going to preserve the duex ex machina ending and serpos is going to be taken care of. What makes more sense from a writing perspective assumming the comic isn't going to rely on the audience knowing the cartoon? Introducing the MYP elders for the first time into the comic or using a group that was shown in the previous issue to already have that serpos to stone capability. Hows that fit into a master plan?

Not to be picky, but I get the feeling that Volume 3 was never going to revisit the events of "Awaken the Serpent." If I'm right, then there was never a concern about introducing redundant councils of wizards who could each take out Serpos. I could be wrong of course.

[He-Fan2002]

Although there were continuity issues in this issue, I still liked it. I guess the comic story is departing a little from MYP's story, as some of you have noted. Finally, the Faceless One's past is explored and we see what makes him who he is in present day Eternia, especially regarding his reasons for not helping Skeletor and King Hiss. I thought the hooded guy was a young Keldor who may be working for Hordak. He mentioned something about who he answered to.