View Poll Results: Princess of Power, yay or nay?

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201. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yay! She-Ra rules and MotU wouldn't have been the same without her.

    120 59.70%
  • Nay! She-Ra is an embarrasment to the MotU mythos.

    19 9.45%
  • I don't mind She-Ra and/or PoP.

    33 16.42%
  • I don't hate PoP, but I'm certainly not a big fan.

    26 12.94%
  • I don't care either way.

    3 1.49%
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Thread: She-Ra, yay or nay?

  1. #51
    Filmation She-Ra Forever! AlessandraF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pH6 View Post
    There never was a She-Ra for me.

    So I don't understand why you had posted on my She-Ra in fan art, only to tell you hate my title? You could be out of there if you don't like She-Ra...
    If you (and the others) canno't help us (She-Ravers), please, at lowest be neutral as She-Ra PoP will be part of the Classics series for sure you He-Fans will need our support, liking or no liking.... folks need begin to understand that we need to be allied, this time He-Man will need of She-Ra PoP (including NA) sales to go on, or bye bye MotU Classics :P
    Last edited by AlessandraF; February 18, 2009 at 11:16am.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by oulala View Post

    Of course these examples are comparable to She-ra. Storm wasn't meant to be in the original X-men team and yet she's one of the core members now. Yet you could totally be a fan of the original x-men and ignore her... So was Wolverine, who's the most popular character. The fact that She-ra isn't referenced in Motu is just that she wasn't even created at the time.

    As for your argument about storm and leia being in a staggering amount of material, as opposed to She-ra who was only in POP, well, there WASN'T a staggering amount of material featuring He-man, is there? The movie, well She-ra was originally scheduled to be part of it... She was drawn in the MYP cartoon but they didn't have time to get to her... That's about it. It's not like they were a HUNDRED different books and novels and cartoon series that said she DIDN'T exist.

    As for your last line, 'there is ample room to remove her from said mythos', it says it all... She-ra did come after He-man just like Xena came after Hercules. Ignore her if you feel like it, but you won't be able to 'remove' her from the motuc mythos because Myths can't be rewritten by fans... That's the true nature of Myths
    No, they are not comparable. You talk about ongoing series that have fully incorporated a character into its mythos. She-Ra has never been incorporated in MOTU. She has never been a part of any of the 3 He-Man shows, nor was she a part of the movie. And you're utterly deluding yourself if you think that that is the same thing as a character like Storm who has been incorporated into the body of the X-Men work. There is no line dividing the X-Men work and Storm, not for the last 30 years. She-Ra on the other hand has an never been a part of any MOTU series and the creators have the option to continue that if they so please.

    You are correct that she might have been part of the MYP series, but that doesn't change the fact that she was not. The newest version of MOTU that many of the newer fans remember (since they didn't know Filmation MOTU), doesn't have She-Ra as a part of it. Even if they knew the filmation MOTU series, if they didn't bother to watch PoP, to them She-Ra wouldn't exist or need to exist. The original version doesn't have She-Ra as a part of it, outside of the sequel series (PoP). NA doesn't have She-Ra as a part of it. The only thing that has She-Ra as a part of it is the show created as a vehicle for her.

    As for her inclusion in MOTUC, words mean nothing. It's Mattel's actions that matter. Mattel can say whatever they want but it means nothing until she's been created as a character or has been referenced in another character's bio. Once she's been referenced in a product, then she too will be a part of MOTUC. The same is true of any other MOTUC character that has yet to be created or referenced. For instance, Trapjaw isn't a part of MOTUC, although he very well might be at some point. I think our first inkling into her status will be Hordak's bio when it goes up.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlessandraF View Post
    So I don't understand why you had posted on my She-Ra in fan art, only to tell you hate my title? You could be out of there if you don't like She-Ra...
    If you (and the others) canno't help us (She-Ravers), please, at lowest be neutral as She-Ra PoP will be part of the Classics series for sure you He-Fans will need our support, liking or no liking.... folks need begin to understand that we need to be allied, this time He-Man will need of She-Ra PoP (including NA) sales to go on, or bye bye MotU Classics :P
    I don't think that not adding She-Ra will turn off so many She-Ra fans that they won't continue to buy the classics line. There's certainly a number that will, but many of those fans have enough of an interest in He-Man and MOTU to continue buying the line. The other beauty on a line with a limited release is that selling out isn't so hard to do, particularly when you allow people to buy 10 at a time.

    When it comes time for a wide release, the She-Ra fans will matter even less. However, the same is true of the MOTU fans in general. A wide release will require a far larger fanbase than what can be provided by the currently existing hardcore fans, so the primary concern will necessarily be to entice the general populace, which is basically the situation that the movie faces as well.

    I personally don't care much about her inclusion in the MOTUC stuff one way or another in and of itself. I don't collect toys anymore and my only interest in MOTUC is that I know people who are happy buying the stuff so I am happy that it exists. I don't really care much about what happens with the line on its own merits as long as my friends who collect it are happy. My only concern with She-Ra is her inclusion in a future movie. The thing is that I also strongly suspect that her movie status will be affected either positively or negatively by her MOTUC status. They could put her in one and not the other, but I think the MOTUC decision will affect the movie one too. Her inclusion in the movie is one of the few things that will cause me to not watch the movie at all so I am adamantly against it and won't in any way lessen that stance. It's not a matter for me where neutrality will suffice because it's an issue that will fundamentally affect my movie watching decisions. I want a MOTU movie that I will watch. If I am not given that, then I lose all interest in the movie.

    As for his replying to the art.... I can't speak for why he does it, but to me that's just an appreciation of good art. For instance, I've replied to art for fan characters that I didn't necessarily like because the art itself was excellent. To me the quality of the art is aside from my views on a character, although I fully admit that it's a bonus if the art is of a character I love.

  3. #53
    Spirit of She-Ra ! Angel-T's Avatar
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    PH6 one of the reasions POP fans become as passionate as they do is because this kind of posts is just plain offensive. What you have posted about She-Ra is not just stateing your dislike, (IMO) you seem to really want to rub it into POP fans faces that their fandom is pointless. Is it any wonder that posts like this get POP fans backs up!!!!!!!!!!

    As for MotUC: there is no She-Ra. At least not yet. Until one is produced, there is NO She-Ra. Period..

    There is NO She-Ra. Period. I think this is the most amusing She-Hater rant I have every seen! You of course must be right, I mean there never was a mult-million selling toyline, 93 episodes or the Filmation POP cartoon. a POP US comic series, UK POP comic series, Ladybird, Golden and other book and tape collections. Neumorus memorabila like tooth brush holders, dress up costumes and weapons, bedding and picture viewers and coloring books plus many more all dedicated to a character that dosent exist. As I said in my pervious post all fans have the right to not see She-Ra as a part of their personal MOTU cannon, but that does not give you the right to tell everyone else that she does not exist period!!!! Like it or not she does exist, and is one of the most powerful characters in the MOTU universe.

    If the PoPpers didn't keep dragging her to everybody else's face everywhere there might be more of a peaceful co-existence.

    OK so where do we go to talk about She-Ra then, www.She-Ra.org? She-Ra is being discussed here because she is a very popular (and at times a contentious) character. If you can't deal with people discussing her why read these threads, this is where we are suppossed to talk about She-Ra. Having read a number of your She-Ra related posts over the years I think you just enjoy being needlesly negative about her and other fans attempts to celebrate her. (IMO) your post on Alessandra's art thread came across as rude and trying to be negative just for the hell of it.

    Seems to me like we in the party of 'nay' aren't entitled to our opinion somehow.

    Not true, I have no problem if a She-Hater makes their points well, expressing that they are their own oppinions, as DL frequently does. As a POP fan I have never said that She-Haters are not entitled to their views, but as you can see from the evdient results of this poll, in our fan community there are far more fans who are perfectly fine with She-Ra being around in a powerful way than those who totally loath her!!!! You are not being victimised, there are just very few people who have posted and voted in this poll who share your oppinions. By all means carry on ignoring She-Ra, but don't assume that others should do the same because you choose to be an Ostrich as far as She-Ra is concerned!
    Last edited by Angel-T; February 18, 2009 at 06:33pm.

  4. #54
    Shera's secret heartthrob oulala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Latveria View Post
    And you're utterly deluding yourself if you think that that is the same thing as a character like Storm who has been incorporated into the body of the X-Men work. There is no line dividing the X-Men work and Storm, not for the last 30 years. She-Ra on the other hand has an never been a part of any MOTU series and the creators have the option to continue that if they so please.
    I think you're deluding yourself trying to negate She-ra's importance.
    I also think like Alexandra and Angel-T that your choice of words is a little irritating. I'm fine with everyone saying whatever they want, as long as I get to say when I'm getting a little irritated...

    Your trapjaw example doesn't make any sense. So in your view, She-ra doesn't exist and Trap-jaw don't exist until they're made into MOTUC? That doesn't make any sense. There are copyrights for these characters that are being renewed every now and then... Besides, TrapJaw hasn't even been announced whereas She-ra is already being discussed as the January 2010 character. Unlike Trapjaw she's been confirmed by Toyguru.

    All your arguments about She-ra being an added, minor part that a He-man fan could simply choose to ignore would make sense only if She-ra had been a cartoon series produced by a different company cashing on He-man's twin sister existing in her own universe, with her own art, her own set of characters.

    But it wasn't like that. Unlike NA, It was the same art, it was made by Filmation, it shared some of the same musics, sets, characters... He-man plays a major part in the Secret of the Sword and in many episodes. So do Orko, King Miro, the Sorceress, Adam, Cringer, Skeletor... Do I have to go on any further?

    If you call yourself a He-man fan and then pretend you are not interested in seeing a show featuring most core characters of MOTU, then I call you 'bluff'...
    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    The harsh reality is that the Horde were originally intended for POP, and they have always been intended for POP. Filmation developed the characters for the POP cartoon. It's a fact.

  5. #55
    Fake Impostor Non-Fan pH6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oulala View Post
    I must ask you... What are you going to do when she-ra is mentioned on Hordak's profile? Cross it with a big black pen?

    it's always the same ones that starts the naysaying threads... Have you ever seen a 'Is He-man necessary to She-ra' thread? or 'Are Secondary MOTU characters going to kill the new toyline'?

    I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to imagine your own MOTU mythos. I do it too.
    But for the records, despite what you say, She-ra is ALREADY part of MOTUC. Here is the original text taken right from Matty Mattel's MOTUC page:

    Masters of the Universe® Classics is a brand new action figure line celebrating over 25 years of MOTU history. Here you will find highly detailed, fully articulated figures from the entire spectrum of the worlds of He-Man® and She-Ra™.
    Despite being vocal on my view, I also know when to admit defeat. I for one for example don't even try to say that She-Ra was in no way part of the 200x incarnation when I have one such figure on that shelf between Bionatops and Keldor. I don't think I've seen Hordak's bio yet, so I'll just have to take your word for She-Ra being mentioned there. If that's the case, I'll be doing the same I do with every other Classic: I open the box, fool around with the figure (more often than not mixing various items from various other toylines with them...but I suppose you never saw my sleeping Skeletor bit) and put the box away with others of it's kind. And at that point I suppose we aren't talking about anymore in the level of 'What if she's there'. Until then, I can have hope. But that advertisement text is false to begin with. A line without Lizard-Man or Madam Razz does not equal the ENTIRE spectrum. I could say anything Filmation does not have a place in official MotU Classic conversation for the time being but I don't need to resort to such.

    Of those two types of thread...I'm rather certain I did see both in the previous incarnation of these boards. But for some reason posts of that era aren't available for search. I can't even find my own old posts on the subject in which I've listed thoroughly the things I do not and also the good points I found in PoP (as surprising as it may seem, there were such. I wouldn't have three toys from that line on display on my limited space otherwise).

    Quote Originally Posted by AlessandraF View Post
    So I don't understand why you had posted on my She-Ra in fan art, only to tell you hate my title? You could be out of there if you don't like She-Ra...
    If you (and the others) canno't help us (She-Ravers), please, at lowest be neutral as She-Ra PoP will be part of the Classics series for sure you He-Fans will need our support, liking or no liking.... folks need begin to understand that we need to be allied, this time He-Man will need of She-Ra PoP (including NA) sales to go on, or bye bye MotU Classics :P
    Regardless what I type here on these forums, the most important point Mattel understands most clearly is the one I make with my Visa. If the time comes, I will be buying She-Ra. Or even a talking Loo-Kee. I like MotU so much more than I dislike PoP. I made the comment in question minutes after reading a certain another comment about wasting a month. So I had NA on my mind in two ways already. She-Ra of the Filmation cartoon is (superpower-wise) in many ways superior to He-Man. There's no need to add another superlative to her. As for could the Classics line stand without She-Ra...well, you obviously have an opinion about it. As do I. Neither needs further explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel-T View Post
    As for MotUC: there is no She-Ra. At least not yet. Until one is produced, there is NO She-Ra. Period..

    There is NO She-Ra. Period. I think this is the most amusing She-Hater rant I have every seen! You of course must be right, I mean there never was a mult-million selling toyline, 93 episodes or the Filmation POP cartoon. a POP US comic series, UK POP comic series, Ladybird, Golden and other book and tape collections. Neumorus memorabila like tooth brush holders, dress up costumes and weapons, bedding and picture viewers and coloring books plus many more all dedicated to a character that dosent exist. As I said in my pervious post all fans have the right to not see She-Ra as a part of their personal MOTU cannon, but that does not give you the right to tell everyone else that she does not exist period!!!! Like it or not she does exist, and is one of the most powerful characters in the MOTU universe.

    If the PoPpers didn't keep dragging her to everybody else's face everywhere there might be more of a peaceful co-existence.

    OK so where do we go to talk about She-Ra then, www.She-Ra.org? She-Ra is being discussed here because she is a very popular (and at times a contentious) character. If you can't deal with people discussing her why read these threads, this is where we are suppossed to talk about She-Ra. Having read a number of your She-Ra related posts over the years I think you just enjoy being needlesly negative about her and other fans attempts to celebrate her. (IMO) your post on Alessandra's art thread came across as rude and trying to be negative just for the hell of it.

    Seems to me like we in the party of 'nay' aren't entitled to our opinion somehow.

    Not true, I have no problem if a She-Hater makes their points well, expressing that they are their own oppinions, as DL frequently does. As a POP fan I have never said that She-Haters are not entitled to their views, but as you can see from the evdient results of this poll, in our fan community there are far more fans who are perfectly fine with She-Ra being around in a powerful way than those who totally loath her!!!! You are not being victimised, there are just very few people who have posted and voted in this poll who share your oppinions. By all means carry on ignoring She-Ra, but don't assume that others should do the same because you choose to be Ostrich as far as She-Ra is concerned!
    And which of these 93 episodes, Golden Books, comics. etc have been released in MotU Classics so far? I think I've missed quite a few. I was talking about that particular line. There're also the original MotU, Commemoratives and He-Man lines that lack She-Ra, but I can't deny something that exists. Therefore, as said before: there was She-Ra in 200x line. There is no She-Ra in Classics line. Until there is, I can hope there won't be. Just like you can hope there will be. Doesn't matter what Mattel has copyrighted. It's not something we fans can get, unless they put out something with it. My darling Snake Men don't exist either until they're made.
    To summarize the rest: If I start my posts on the subject with 'IMO', I won't be told my opinions to be false? That's something I've also got during all these years. Even when I did my personal list of the good things of PoP.
    "She-Ra, Princess of Power was no more. That had been the price of freedom."

  6. #56
    Spirit of She-Ra ! Angel-T's Avatar
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    Dude your oppinions are as valid as mine or any other fan and I would never dispute that! But the way you word your posts makies a big difference to how people react to you views. If She-Haters thought about that before posting there probably wouldn't be half the arguments that occure between ravers and haters. You don't have to like her (thats out job) but at the same time do She-Haters really need to try and actively spoil it for those who are looking foward to She-Ra in MOTUC!

    She-Ra is just one figure and Mattel are probably only going to throw POP fans a few bones (Adora, She-Ra & hopefully Catra as well), classic MOTU fans are gonna have plenty to amsue themselves with in MOTUC. She-Ravers arn't saying everyone has to like She-Ra & POP, just have a little consideration to how you express your oppinions. Because if you are needlessly offensive or rude about a much loved character (which She-Ra is to many fans) you can bet your bottom dollar you are gonna hear about it from the She-Ravers.
    Last edited by Angel-T; February 18, 2009 at 06:32pm.
    PRO CLASSIC POP TOY DESIGN ELEMENTS BEING USED IN MOTUC TO COMPLEMENT THE FILMATION DESIGNS!!!!

    I FULLY SUPPORT THE INCLUSION OF ILLUMINA IN MOTUC!!!!!

    IF YOUR SICK OF WAITING FOR A LIGHT TO APPEAR AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL, STRIDE DOWN THERE AND LIGHT THE BLOODY THING YOURSELF!!!!!!!

  7. #57
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    You guys, I know everybody has free will to speak what they think, if spoken politely of course, but I think it is useless to argue about this. If ur a fan of He-Man, buy all the action figures released from Masters of the Universe. It is your money, do what you want with it. It is not like someone is using hypnosis to say: Buy a She-Ra, Buy a She-ra

    And make you look like a zombie addicted to toys. If you don't like She-Ra and all the characters related to her, let it be, don't buy any of the toys which by the way are long dead by now because let's be honest here, it is all about He-man. I like She-Ra, I will not lie about this, I think she is cooler than He-man, but its all about him people. Three different cartoons, multiple toylines, a live action movie, another one in the move. All He-fans out there have nothing to complain. If not nothing, just a few things.

    I have just one thing I don't agree when I see it happening: people offending She-Ra. It is like I said before, if you don't like it, don't buy it. You want to say you don't like, fine, do it politely. We are not cavemans anymore, most of us are polite and well educated so there is no need to offend what other people like. The best we all have to do is let destiny follows its course because truth to be told, Mattel has the money and they are the producers. Do they care about our opinion? Yes they do but in the end its their call. Their company is not managed by dummies, otherwise it wouldnt be one of the biggest toy maker on the planet's history. They will follow what they think it will work better.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by oulala View Post
    I think you're deluding yourself trying to negate She-ra's importance.
    I also think like Alexandra and Angel-T that your choice of words is a little irritating. I'm fine with everyone saying whatever they want, as long as I get to say when I'm getting a little irritated...

    Your trapjaw example doesn't make any sense. So in your view, She-ra doesn't exist and Trap-jaw don't exist until they're made into MOTUC? That doesn't make any sense. There are copyrights for these characters that are being renewed every now and then... Besides, TrapJaw hasn't even been announced whereas She-ra is already being discussed as the January 2010 character. Unlike Trapjaw she's been confirmed by Toyguru.

    All your arguments about She-ra being an added, minor part that a He-man fan could simply choose to ignore would make sense only if She-ra had been a cartoon series produced by a different company cashing on He-man's twin sister existing in her own universe, with her own art, her own set of characters.

    But it wasn't like that. Unlike NA, It was the same art, it was made by Filmation, it shared some of the same musics, sets, characters... He-man plays a major part in the Secret of the Sword and in many episodes. So do Orko, King Miro, the Sorceress, Adam, Cringer, Skeletor... Do I have to go on any further?

    If you call yourself a He-man fan and then pretend you are not interested in seeing a show featuring most core characters of MOTU, then I call you 'bluff'...
    Your original statement was that She-Ra is part of the MOTU mythos regardless of whether people like it or not. I stated that it is not nearly as inextricably intertwined as you wish it were.

    I agree with you that PoP was a sequel series to Filmation MOTU. There is no doubt there. But at the same time, there isn't any need for a MOTU fan to acknowledge, identify or have any interest in it because even if said fan's only interest in MOTU is limited to the filmation series, the filmation series made absolutely no reference to her.

    She-Ra is a major part of the PoP franchise but she has no bearing on the original Filmation series because that series was wrapped up and finished with before her creation. A fan has a right to pick and choose what aspects of a franchise they will follow and acknowledge. In some cases, it is harder than others. For instance, it'd be pretty hard to ignore the existence of Cringer when he as intertwined in nearly every (or is it actually every?) episode of Filmation MOTU. Your earlier examples of Storm and Leia are completely off the mark because they were inserted into an existing and continuing brand, whereas She-Ra was created for a separate series (that happens to be a direct sequel) to the MOTU series. You can't remove Storm without changing the majority of X-Men history. Nor can you change Leia's lineage without changing most of Star Wars history. But you can get rid of PoP without it making a shred of difference to any of the other He-Man related series, thereby showing that it isn't something that people have to blindly tolerate in order to enjoy the MOTU brand. Importance implies that something cannot be separated from the whole without seriously damaging or changing the whole. This IS NOT true of PoP because before it ever existed there was a completed and popular MOTU series, and after its existence there were another 2 series that were created and completed that didn't reference it. If she was so important to things, then she would've shown up elsewhere, but she wasn't.

    Yes, PoP is a sequel but so were Highlander 2 and Superman IV. For that matter, many of the important locations and characters in the Superman series of movies showed up in Superman IV, but I can't think of that people who are fans of the movie. Many Highlander fans prefer to simply ignore the existence of Highlander 2 because in their opinion it is a horrible movie and an embarassment to the franchise. That is how I feel about PoP. So you can "call my bluff" all you want. Unlike many of the others here, I don't blindly love anything with a MOTU seal on it. For that matter, I can't bring myself to watch Filmation MOTU either because I think it is utterly terrible, but at least the concept was good, something which I don't feel PoP ever managed t accomplish.

    As for some of the other things mentioned in this thread... I don't blame She-Ra fans for pushing for her inclusion in things. They do it for the same reason I push for her not being part of th em, which is personal preference. They enjoy the product more with her in it. As a matter of fact, I imagine that to some, the product is ruined without her inclusion. The same is true of me, but with the opposing viewpoint. At the end of the day, I want a MOTU that I enjoy and wish to be a part of. Her inclusion, at least in her original form, guarantees that I will not be. So naturally I don't want her there.

  9. #59
    Bashasaurus Emiliano's Avatar
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    I honestly think this disccussion it rather redundant as Mattel stated many times She-Ra will be in MOTUC line.

    I find arguing on if she's part of the mythos or not redundant as well.
    She-Ra exists, is part of MOTU in many ways.
    Trying to prove she isn't, it's is just a semantic exercise.
    Who doens't like her could just say they don't like her and won't buy any MOTUC POP figures and let this discussion go.

  10. #60
    Shera's secret heartthrob oulala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    I honestly think this disccussion it rather redundant as Mattel stated many times She-Ra will be in MOTUC line.

    I find arguing on if she's part of the mythos or not redundant as well.
    She-Ra exists, is part of MOTU in many ways.
    Trying to prove she isn't, it's is just a semantic exercise.
    Who doens't like her could just say they don't like her and won't buy any MOTUC POP figures and let this discussion go.
    Yeah. Emilio's right, I was going to get back into semantics and adress Dark Latveria's rampant she-ra nevisionist theories but I can't be bothered getting into this again...

    One last thing before I shut up forever though:
    These cartoons were made for kids, not grown up nerds that know everything about how a series was made (i.e. you and I, Dark Latverian, let's face it! ) . As a kid growing up in Europe in the 1980's, I watched he-man and she-ra at the same time because although she-ra came a year or two after he-man, both series continued and were shown alongside one another. It was on the same program. At that age, I didn't know what 'Filmation' was or what a 'sequel' was, I just ogled at the TV and watched both shows as the same thing. 30 years later, it will take a lot more than mere semantic to change my childhood memories and experience...
    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    The harsh reality is that the Horde were originally intended for POP, and they have always been intended for POP. Filmation developed the characters for the POP cartoon. It's a fact.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by oulala View Post
    Yeah. Emilio's right, I was going to get back into semantics and adress Dark Latveria's rampant she-ra nevisionist theories but I can't be bothered getting into this again...

    One last thing before I shut up forever though:
    These cartoons were made for kids, not grown up nerds that know everything about how a series was made (i.e. you and I, Dark Latverian, let's face it! ) . As a kid growing up in Europe in the 1980's, I watched he-man and she-ra at the same time because although she-ra came a year or two after he-man, both series continued and were shown alongside one another. It was on the same program. At that age, I didn't know what 'Filmation' was or what a 'sequel' was, I just ogled at the TV and watched both shows as the same thing. 30 years later, it will take a lot more than mere semantic to change my childhood memories and experience...
    I haven't written any revisionist theories. I have simply stated the obvious facts about her being part of part of a series that can easily be separated without affecting the franchise as a whole, which has been proven repeatedly throughout MOTU history. The argument about whether it should be removed or not is an entirely different thing that generally boils down to one's personal prefereces, or in the alternative, cogent business decisions. However, those business decisions are outside of the scope of the individual orgers due to the fact that the org itself is the most biased place one can go for anything MOTU related and also because to get solid answers a lot of market research (focus groups and whatnot) is needed. Note that here I am not making any predictions on how said research will pan out. What I am sure of is that this is the last place they will come to ask because people here will buy anything they put out (I am referring to MOTU fandom in general, not just the She-Ra fans) so they are a guaranteed market.

    I totally agree that the show wasn't made for adults who know the history, but when the shows were on I never for an instant saw it as part of the same program. It was simply 2 different series that shared certain characters. I watched the one and didn't watch the other, other than a few snippers here and there. However, I did notice that on one series (MOTU) none of the characters from the other series ever showed up. I remember loving He-Man and having no interest whatsoever in She-Ra, other than feeling it was a poor idea. There really wasn't much more to it than that. I didn't see it as part of MOTU, I just saw it as another series that had appearances from the characters I had grown up with. There really wasn't much more to it. I missed the MOTU series itself, but life went on. From what I have seen here, I am not alone in that aspect, and from what I remember at the time ther were a ton of others who felt the same way, enjoying the first series and totally disregarding or disliking the second. I do believe that this site will have a noticeable skew to the viewpoint that opposes mine, but I have seen enough people that don't believe it's an integral part of MOTU to know that it isn't. In the end, it comes down to personal preferences, but unlike some of the other things that it was compared to, you can remove the one aspect without changing anything else.

    As for the quality of the show, I agree that it was made for children and naturally won't stand up too well years later. However, I haven't found anywhere near the same level of dissatisfaction with any other show from that point in my life. I still like the Thundercats series(even though I've always been more of a MOTU fan), and I can sit through G1 Transformers and GI Joe, even if I don't like every episode I see. The same doesn't hold true with MOTU, which was a terrible shock and disappointment when I was reintroduced to it a few years ago.

    btw it's Darth, not Dark, lol

  12. #62
    Heroic Warrior mermaidliz's Avatar
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    I am sorry but for me, the word "mythos" is a little too strong (if not ridiculous) to be used for a toyline or a cartoon. That being said, I don't see any problem with a new character (in this case She-Ra) being introduced to the series or the toyline.
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  13. #63
    Sorcerer of Zalesia bcrduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Latveria View Post
    She-Ra is a major part of the PoP franchise but she has no bearing on the original Filmation series because that series was wrapped up and finished with before her creation.
    You are INCORRECT.

    In "The Origin of the Sorceress," her sword appears... that CLEARLY indicates that plans for She-Ra were in the works before the second season of MOTU aired. If you argue that, then you're just bent on pushing She-Ra from the MOTU canon no matter what, which I find, if nothing else, kind of strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Latveria View Post
    I don't blame She-Ra fans for pushing for her inclusion in things. They do it for the same reason I push for her not being part of th em, which is personal preference. They enjoy the product more with her in it. As a matter of fact, I imagine that to some, the product is ruined without her inclusion. The same is true of me, but with the opposing viewpoint.
    I have never understood this about your perspective. What, exactly, about She-Ra and her story that RUINS the MOTU product/property?? I'm sorry, but without "The Secret of the Sword," the "Princess of Power" cartoon, etc., the MOTU toyline would have died out in early 1986, as opposed to late 1987... the momentum would have died... kids are fickle (even though we had MUCH larger attention spans than kids of today), and the development of the MOTU story in the Filmation cartoons was the reason for MOTU's continued success as a toy line. At least, that is what I believe.

    These people that say "She-Ra killed MOTU" are ridiculous, and in my opinion either weren't THERE (kids when this was actually happening, as opposed to fans who came to MOTU later), or just hate girl super heroes.

    She-Ra is as amazingly cool as He-Man. The cartoons were written better, and produced better... Hordak was dumb. The rest were not... well, ok, LooKee was kind of tiresome. lol
    Last edited by bcrduke; April 7, 2009 at 03:20am.
    A Want List of Sorts: Eldor, Sweet Bee, Arrow, Spinnerella, NA She-Ra, Mermista, Gwildor, Hover-Bots, Tung Lasher, Angella, Ninjor, Huntara, Oo-Larr, Lizard Man, Sssqueeze, Peekablue... and all the other POP & NA characters.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    You are INCORRECT.

    In "The Origin of the Sorceress," her sword appears... that CLEARLY indicates that plans for She-Ra were in the works before the second season of MOTU aired. If you argue that, then you're just bent on pushing She-Ra from the MOTU canon no matter what, which I find, if nothing else, kind of strange.
    Actually, if you read my past posts you'd see that I recognized that.

    Here it is:

    During the filmation MOTU series, there was no sign of He-Man having a sibling and the only PoP connection that ever arose was a brief glimpse of 2 swords in castle Grayskull and the Horde during the episode that shows the Sorceress' origin. These brief glimpses are essentially all that serve to connect the first 130 episodes of MOTU to She-Ra, and taken alone are not enough to show a strong She-Ra connection to the MOTU mythos.
    I don't consider a blink and you miss it picture of the swords to mean that there is a major bearing on the Filmation MOTU series. Was it a sign that they had her in mind? Sure, I'll agree to that. They knew they were gonna stick He-Man into a skirt and get a whole new demographic, but that doesn't change the fact that she has no bearing on the stories told within the original MOTU series and was never so much as hinted at, other than what essentially turns out to be an Easter Egg. I was not saying that there wasn't a single hint of her possible existence at all. What I was referring to was how inextricable She-Ra is to the MOTU mythos, and my point still stands strong if all you can show me is a 2-3 second shot of two swords in one episode out of 130.

    I have never understood this about your perspective. What, exactly, about She-Ra and her story that RUINS the MOTU product/property??
    I've been asked not to share my views on this topic as they are rather harsh, thus you'll have to look for my old posts where I have laid it out in detail.

    Suffice it to say, I should be a little more clear on one point as it might've been lost on you (at least according to your wording here). I am not saying that she necessarily ruins the property from a commercial standpoint. I am saying she ruins it for me, which is a different ballgame. She very well might be a very good thing for the property in its current and future incarnations, but it won't be an incarnation that I support. As for her affect on the property commercially, it was certainly good in the 80's and I think it could go either way today (depending on how she's done). There are some aspects of her that I suspect wouldn't do so well today and other aspects that would, but that's purely supposition on my part as I don't have the resources or inclination to collect samplings from focus groups.

    I'm sorry, but without "The Secret of the Sword," the "Princess of Power" cartoon, etc., the MOTU toyline would have died out in early 1986, as opposed to late 1987... the momentum would have died... kids are fickle (even though we had MUCH larger attention spans than kids of today), and the development of the MOTU story in the Filmation cartoons was the reason for MOTU's continued success as a toy line. At least, that is what I believe.
    You might be correct on this (about the line continuing because of PoP), but I am less than convinced. The original cartoon remained in syndication for a while after the series ended. Even I got it until sometimes in 87-88 and from what I have seen here it ended for me sooner than it did for many others.

    Reasons why I doubt this though are because most of the characters that came out later in the series weren't on PoP. Off the top of my head, there was Dragstor, Extendar and Rio Blast who probably never showed up so I don't see how PoP could have helped it grow. I do admit that some of the Horde was possibly helped due to her series, but the demographic of the MOTU figures was little boys and this was a show for little girls. The males I have spoken to who are not on the board usually tell me that they watched MOTU and generally ignored PoP. It was frequently along the lines of, "ya, MOTU was cool. I think my sister was into PoP too but I never cared for it one way or another."

    Furthermore, there was a movie that came out around then too. I've heard that later figures in the line were relatively hard to find, but I think their very existence was assured due to the movie.

    I agree that Filmation MOTU helped sell the toys, but I wouldn't say it's due to the "story development." By and large the show was a formulaic, 30 minute commercial with relatively few instances of actual story or character development. Now let me save you the hassle and point out that yes, there was some development, such as the Problem with Power, Sorceress' Origin and finding out that Teela is the Sorceress' daughter, but a handful of instances doesn't prove that there was much continuity given that there was 130 shows.

    These people that say "She-Ra killed MOTU" are ridiculous, and in my opinion either weren't THERE (kids when this was actually happening, as opposed to fans who came to MOTU later), or just hate girl super heroes.
    I don't think that She-Ra killed MOTU. I said that her inclusion ruins it for me. As I am only one person, pleasing or displeasing me will neither save nor ruin MOTU. I was there at the time and do not believe that she killed MOTU in any way as the series had already been cancelled before hers began. I think it's debatable whether she helped lengthen the toyline's existence, but I am not of the opinion that she shortened it.

    I also don't have problems with girl superheroes. I don't go out of my way to follow them, but there are some that I really enjoy and some that I don't. In the case of She-Ra, my problem is her existence, not her gender. The whole underlying concept of her, in particular her origin, is what bothers me and my views on her wouldn't change if her gender did.

    She-Ra is as amazingly cool as He-Man. The cartoons were written better, and produced better... Hordak was dumb. The rest were not... well, ok, LooKee was kind of tiresome. lol
    I disagree about her being tolerable at all, let alone being as cool as He-Man. That being said, I do agree that her cartoon was written better than Filmation MOTU, but if you are aware of my views on that particular cartoon you'll see that that isn't exactly high praise.

    Hordak was... honestly, I agree with you even though I think that's a tremendous understatment, haha. Also....... I don't mind Loo-Kee. It's a cutesy concept, but kinda fun to be keeping an eye out for him during the episodes.
    Last edited by Darth Latveria; April 7, 2009 at 04:07am.

  15. #65
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    From the MOTU side of things, you could certainly have MOTU without any POP in it. From the US side of things, the MOTU media was largely devoid of any explicit POP references. The most blatant of this was POP's absence in Filmation (Except for the Origin of the Sorceress) and the MOTU mini-comics. This is probably why there is such flak toward POP now, besides the girly factor.

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  16. #66
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    She-Ra...

    I think anytime a series spawns a spin-off its a great thing for the series. That being said, what is there to hate? We got more toys, we got more books, we got more to collect...I mean really where is the bad??? If you don't care for it, don't buy it...pretty simple. For me it was the girl's MOTU, and now at 41...I'm cool with that. I like girls...lol.

    She-Ra...yup....you bet.


  17. #67
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    I believe that without POP there would be no Horde. And for that we thank you....
    We don't need no education...

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  18. #68
    Heroic Warrior deltadod's Avatar
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    I say unto thee YAY!! She-ra rocks!!
    Starchild's #1 fan!!

  19. #69
    Heroic Subscriber He-Dude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flaming_knob View Post
    I believe that without POP there would be no Horde. And for that we thank you....
    Amen to that...

    What an old thread this was.

    I don't collect POP stuff but I say yay for those that do.

  20. #70
    Human... Robot... Maniac Spacedust's Avatar
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    I'm split on how to answer this one.

    As a "separate, distantly connected girl’s line", if you will, I can live with the concept of She-Ra. But for me, personally, it just took the original mythos into areas that didn't really do those wonderful barbarian, "post apocalyptic"-feeling stories any favours.

    As oh so many of my posts reflect, I'm a real "pre-Filmation" fan. She-Ra for me just kinda watered the line down too much (though in fairness some of that had kinda happened by her release anyway). It made the MOTU "Universe" far too crowded and unfocused, and I’m afraid some of those rainbow-coloured, cutesy She-Ra characters sum up for me as to why the franchise became seen as rather babyish by the end of it’s original run.
    I don't hate the gal, but it's certainly not where my love of the franchise lies. (Sorry She-Ra fans! )
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  21. #71
    Master of Power Suction Killian's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be a MOTU fan still if it wasn't for She-Ra.

    I wouldn't collect the MOTUC toyline if it didn't contain characters from She-Ra.

    Having watched the Filmation cartoons, my canon has POP and MOTU as 1 awesome story, they belong together!

    If anything, I see the He-Man characters as background characters that compliment the more important She-Ra characters!
    He who dies with the most MOTUC wins!

  22. #72
    Heroic Warrior H.A.L.9000's Avatar
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    i have to go with NAY.. ....not for me...
    "I DENY YOU THE NIDUS!!"

  23. #73
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    You have to have she-ra in their I mean it wouldn't finish the story without her of the whole mythos to Masters of the universe IMHO.
    By the Power of Grey Skull!

  24. #74
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    When I was a little girl She-ra ment so much to me. She was a strong female character who was smart beautiful and was looked up to by everyone else. She had an awesome flying unicorn and could fly away!

    She got me into He-man and I bought both He-man and She-ra figures. I love both the riginal He-man cartoon and She-ra cartoons. I wished that the latest He-man cartoon had made it long enough to include She-ra. Perhaps the He-man fans alone weren't enough to keep the ratings up?

    I think those who are She-ra haters are intimidated by powerful women.

    She-ra was awesome and so was He-man. I wish there were powerful female rolemodels in children's cartoons today.

  25. #75
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    I loved (and still love) the whole fantasy, sword-and-sorcery genre that got that early-80's update (man, I just re-watched Deathstalker on Netflix, fer cryin' out loud...), and PoP was a natural girl-toy extension of that. I was into She-Ra, and Golden Girl, from day one!
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