View Poll Results: Princess of Power, yay or nay?

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201. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yay! She-Ra rules and MotU wouldn't have been the same without her.

    120 59.70%
  • Nay! She-Ra is an embarrasment to the MotU mythos.

    19 9.45%
  • I don't mind She-Ra and/or PoP.

    33 16.42%
  • I don't hate PoP, but I'm certainly not a big fan.

    26 12.94%
  • I don't care either way.

    3 1.49%
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Thread: She-Ra, yay or nay?

  1. #26
    Heroic Warrior Dr. R.K.Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamato Yoshi
    Mattel just made the PoP thing way too girly for it to be associated IN ANY WAY with a boys' line.

    And that's my beef.
    So...just because She-Ra's characters more or less were a series of Dolls barring the Hoarde, you think your "macho" He-Man toyline was weakened?

    You know 40% of people who play with dolls at ages 4-8 are GUYS right?

    She-Ra spawned an action show that appealed to males as well as females, blending both attributes, it transcneded the limitations of it's target gender audience, and it should be acknowledged and respected for having balls, whilst so many other female cartoons refused to have any, not ignorantly cast aside.
    Last edited by Dr. R.K.Z; February 7, 2005 at 02:52pm.

  2. #27
    Human Mutant Power! carlo's Avatar
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    HAMATO , i understand what you're saying man. i personally dont like POP's cartoon.. at least out of all the ep's i've seen, i see nothing that catches my eyes to like this toon, very spoofy nonsense, but then too there was motu ep's really spoofy too The first season of he-man was so adult mature oriented. by the second season it lost its dark mature magic to it. looks like filmation really went kiddie by the second and third season of motu. and there on i lost interest in the toon even as a kid. i never saw pop as a kid..hated the music and still do and not that is a girls toon, i just dont like it. heck i love madonna music, maybe if she would of produced some of pop musics maybe i would of liked it..

    i like the POP figures..or dolls i guess..lol , but really that its, i like artwork of POP. I have said this before, POP should of just been She-ra on Eternia, not etheria. the POP mini comic of the story of she-ra is cool cause its a bit on the tough battle side, by the second minis, things just got down right ridicuous...really ridiculous..no battle at all. In general i will say that i dont mind POP being mentioned in the book as a spin-off, but that its.

    Just when you came and bashed POP like you did was a bit on the rough side man.
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  3. #28
    Heroic Warrior pain's Avatar
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    I have to say that I am for She-Ra. All of my favorite characters were thr Horde, and the POP storyline, just showed so much more of their characters. Plus I like the whole idea of the bad guys in power, and at first, it was brother against sister until she decided to fight for the good side. I personally, love the bad guys, so She-Ra sucks, but Force Captain Adora rocks!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #29
    Heroic Warrior katybobs's Avatar
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    MOTU could have exsisted without POP, but it wouldnt have been such a rich universe and the choice of charactors would have been much more limited. no horde, no meteorbs, no dinosorbs, etc. i dont think the dolls were particularly girly. infact i played with them as a child and welcomed the alternative to barbie and my little pony that POP posed. im sure by now my opinion is obvious

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  5. #30
    MOTU Mini-Masters! Sllohcin's Avatar
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    I enjoyed the She-Ra cartoon and was pretty diligent with my watchings of it. It was fun and was a part of He-Man.

    The thing is, I always kinda hated the idea of the twin sister thing. It was sorta 'dumb'. In essence (for me) I disliked the whole line as it was geared towards girls and I didn't like the figures. The figures were my mythos and I believe that's the reason that I will always feel that the Horde is MOTU and not POP. I beleive they were used on She-Ra simply because they needed an ultimate evil that would tie them to Eternia. Catra and Shadow Weaver just weren't enough.

    Now, as an adult, I choose to ignore the whole She-Ra/POP mythos and restrict my 'universe' to the MOTU side of it. I just like it so much better. The Horde is now where it should be IMO and I'm a happy camper. I definitely can live with the idea of She-Ra being a successor to He-Man though... it just comes off as more legit. I could see the whole POP line happening a hundred or so years after He-Man and on Eternia.
    Last edited by Sllohcin; February 7, 2005 at 06:10pm.
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  6. #31
    Heroic Warrior McHorde-Trooper's Avatar
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    Yay! She-Ra rules and MotU wouldn't have been the same without her.

    PoP ads so much more history and depth to MotU that is wouldn't be the same with out it MotU.

    What is really different about PoP compared to MotU is that the Horde has overwhelming numbers (robot armies rock), although they get defeated daily they haven't lost there grip on a large chunk of territory. And even though the Rebellion wins they retreats to the safety of the magically protected Whispering Woods.

  7. #32
    Eternian Jedi Knight He-Fan's Avatar
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    Chris here...

    Quote Originally Posted by carlo
    The first season of he-man was so adult mature oriented. by the second season it lost its dark mature magic to it. looks like filmation really went kiddie by the second and third season of motu.
    I think it depends what you look for - I agree that season 1 certainly had a degree of marginally "darker" episodes such as "Wizard of Stone Mountain" and the "House of Shokoti" two-parter, but IMO some of the best-written episodes occur in season 2 - "Into the Abyss", "The Problem With Power", "Not So Blind", and those are just the ones I can think of!

    As to the "She-Ra, yay or nay?" debate - the only reason I became a MOTU fan in the first place is because of She-Ra. 'Nuff said!

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  8. #33
    Badass with a bottle Drunken Fist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scare_Glower
    DM,

    Can you please elaborate on some of your points...?

    • I don't see how POP watered down MOTU
    • I don't see how the She-Ra story arc was any goofier than any other story arc in the MOTU cartoons. In fact I think the way the writers explained the existence of Adora/She-Ra and the Horde was quite clever and poignant. It wasn't "goofy" at all in my opinion.
    The main reason I felt it watered down the concept of He-Man is that suddenly, there were two people running around accessing the power of Grayskull to undergo an amazing transformation to battle an evil warlord. Like I said in my earlier post, it makes He-Man less unique. One of the most important elements of the MOTU mythos-- to me, anyway-- is the fact that Adam has been chosen to wield the power of Grayskull in Eternia's time of greatest need to combat the forces of evil that plague the planet. To have someone else doing pretty much the exact same thing, even if it is on another world, just seems redundant to me. And the sudden invention of the long-lost twin sibling, who has been erased from everyone's memories by the Sorceress's magic, seemed pretty contrived to me, even as a child. Of course, the writers were doing the best they could to integrate the spinoff series Mattel was producing, so they did about as good as could be expected under those circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. R.K.Z
    Wow...two siblings seperated between worlds, with She-Ra on the rebellious side against an oppresive enemy, wow what a "goofy" concept as opposed to the one-sided aspects of Masters of the Universe, where the villain is'nt in power at all, which is why Skeletor, as great as he was, was sidelined for many episodes

    Don't bother aksing She-Ra bashers to "justify ther points" because they don't have any, they think they can just say "this franchise does'nt exist", and that's the end of the discussion, when in truth, they don't know what to say or do next, they refuse to acknowledge the very real attachment it has to MOU history, and it's contributions to it's success in large and small ways.

    What reason is there to react like that? What purpose does it acheive? NOTHING in the long run.
    Your post is needlessly rude and insulting, and I won't dignify it by responding in kind. I, at least, was civil and courteous in stating my opinions, and you won't find any "She-Ra bashing" in my earlier post. I choose to excise the entire She-Ra concept from my personal view of MOTU because it does not fit in with my feelings about it. And I see no reason why I should "justify my points," as they are my opinions, and I have the right to them, as you do to yours. It's best to leave it at that.

  9. #34
    Papi Loco Hamato Yoshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlo
    HAMATO , i understand what you're saying man. i personally dont like POP's cartoon.. at least out of all the ep's i've seen, i see nothing that catches my eyes to like this toon, very spoofy nonsense, but then too there was motu ep's really spoofy too The first season of he-man was so adult mature oriented. by the second season it lost its dark mature magic to it. looks like filmation really went kiddie by the second and third season of motu. and there on i lost interest in the toon even as a kid. i never saw pop as a kid..hated the music and still do and not that is a girls toon, i just dont like it. heck i love madonna music, maybe if she would of produced some of pop musics maybe i would of liked it..

    i like the POP figures..or dolls i guess..lol , but really that its, i like artwork of POP. I have said this before, POP should of just been She-ra on Eternia, not etheria. the POP mini comic of the story of she-ra is cool cause its a bit on the tough battle side, by the second minis, things just got down right ridicuous...really ridiculous..no battle at all. In general i will say that i dont mind POP being mentioned in the book as a spin-off, but that its.

    Just when you came and bashed POP like you did was a bit on the rough side man.
    I'll admit that I was a little rough in the other thread. I'm just really looking forward to this book (as are many others) and I got the impression that She-Ra fans would be bombarding the author with e-mails about PoP. I really want this book to come out and I guess I was just a little concerned that this guy would get freaked out and scrap the whole idea.

    It's one thing to bombard Mattel and ask for She-Ra figures, but this poor author just wants to write a book about his experiences with Mattel. I'm sure if he wants to mention PoP (which he will, since it pertains to the story) then he will. I now realize that people were e-mailing him and asking if PoP would be included, not begging for it to be included.

    I'm personally not a PoP fan, and I apologize for chastizing those who are. I just want separation. Like church and state. It's kind of like being a huge Cheers fan and wanting to talk about Cheers and people keep throwing The Tortellis (the short-lived spinoff) in your face. But I guess Joanie Loves Chachi will forever be linked with Happy Days, so to will She-Ra be linked with He-Man.

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  10. #35
    Human Mutant Power! carlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamato Yoshi
    Carlo: I'll change my avatar as soon as I get a chance. No hard feelings.
    no problem and i actually like that avatar...KEEP IT!
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  11. #36
    Scholar of Fantasy The Overlord's Avatar
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    Personally, I prefer MOTU to POP & always will. It had a more epic and mature feel to it. That said, I still really like POP - some of the episodes were outstanding, and the SOTS was superb. I just don't think it consistently matched MOTU in terms of quality. But it comes a close second.

    As for it 'ruining' the MOTU mythos - seeing as She-Ra never appeared in any MOTU episodes, those who don't like POP can simply watch the parent show and just ignore the spin-off, like Sllohcin said he does.
    Last edited by The Overlord; February 18, 2005 at 06:37am.
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  12. #37
    Master of Good Hair Eamon's Avatar
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    My VERY first exposure to She-Ra was when I saw the cartoon for the first time. I never saw the opening credits so I was quite clueless as the what She-Ra was but I was 12 and I was horrified. Return of te Jedi was out and I couldn't escape the sister idea.
    I don't hate but I don't care for She-Ra. I do think she did cheapened the MOTU some what and hence it's eventual downfall. But who can really say. That's why I'm looking forward to this book.
    She-Ra characters though, are way more fun to draw!
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  13. #38
    Heroric Drummer Brian Ozone's Avatar
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    As long as they are on seperate worlds and interact once and a while I guess I can handle She_ra. But other than that WHATEVER.

  14. #39
    Eternian Henchman motu77's Avatar
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    I think the addition of POP made the mythos even more exciting.
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  15. #40
    Spirit of She-Ra ! Angel-T's Avatar
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    Whats this book that everyone keeps referencing? As to the purposes of this thread, She-Ra is amazing! She is silk and steel all roled up into one. As far as I am concerned she is the best thing in MOTU. Filmation She-Ra was the gateway to the MOTU universe for me. I had seen a few He-Man episodes but when SOTS came about that was what hooked me into the property. I love He-Man too but for very different resions.

    As a kid He-Man was the hero I always hoped was out there, the great saviour and protector of the battle torn world of Eternia. But She-Ra was the hero I always hoped was within my self. Someone who had the strength within to turn from darkness to light. She had the power to truly change herself and attone for the sins of the horde (her sins). Her story spoke to me on so many different levels. Like her or loath her she is a very contentious character in the MOTU universe. She-Ra polarises people, either positively or negatively. You can close your eyes and pretend she isn't there, but she is there, she happened, she exists and IS He-Man's equal in every way possible.

    She-Ra is going to be in MOTUC and I for one am very happy about it! Some people think POP might have been a reasion for the eventual downfall of the line, well I put it to you like this. The last time that MOTU was the king of the toy isles was in the 80's when She-Ra and co were invited to the party, NA & 2K MOTU both flopped and neither of them had any POP connection. It will be intresting to see how MOTUC fares when the POP girls start hitting the line, as (IMO) She-Ra and the POP stories enrich MOTU, making for a more varied and developed universe.

    Recently BCI Guy said something along the lines of She-Ra not having as many fans as He-Man, but those that she does have are ferice and loyal. I am proud to stand up and be counted as one of them. Any cartoon, toyline or possible book that does not pay hommage to She-Ra & POP is not telling the complete MOTU story. It's like trying to sweep an elephant under the rug, you just can't do it no matter how hard you try!
    Last edited by Angel-T; February 10, 2009 at 08:27pm.
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    IF YOUR SICK OF WAITING FOR A LIGHT TO APPEAR AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL, STRIDE DOWN THERE AND LIGHT THE BLOODY THING YOURSELF!!!!!!!

  16. #41
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    I voted Nay.

    I think she's the greatest embarassment in the history of MOTU and feel that the sooner she is forgotten the better.

  17. #42
    Spirit of She-Ra ! Angel-T's Avatar
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    Oh Darth I just knew you would be posting after me!
    PRO CLASSIC POP TOY DESIGN ELEMENTS BEING USED IN MOTUC TO COMPLEMENT THE FILMATION DESIGNS!!!!

    I FULLY SUPPORT THE INCLUSION OF ILLUMINA IN MOTUC!!!!!

    IF YOUR SICK OF WAITING FOR A LIGHT TO APPEAR AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL, STRIDE DOWN THERE AND LIGHT THE BLOODY THING YOURSELF!!!!!!!

  18. #43
    The Cerebral Assassin hhhelmsley's Avatar
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    Yay! She-Ra.

  19. #44
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Latveria View Post
    I voted Nay.

    I think she's the greatest embarassment in the history of MOTU and feel that the sooner she is forgotten the better.
    Interesting. How come?

    My personal feelings toward POP are a mixed bag. While I don't hate them, I think they are an entirely optional part of MOTU, much like 200X or NA.

    • I don't mind She-Ra and the gang. In fact, they could fit in nicely. They just have to be more "male-oriented" like Teela, Sorceress and Evil-Lyn.
    • I don't like that She-Ra/Adora is He-Man's sister.
    • I do think that MOTU doesn't need POP, but POP does need MOTU.
    • Some of the characters were girly, but Mattel can fix them up to be some pretty bad-ass warrior women and sexy sorceresses. Man the franchise up a little.

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  20. #45
    Heroic Warrior Darkness's Avatar
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    To me, She Ra is equally as important to the MOTU story as anything else in it. I watched the cartoon and enjoyed it but I didn't buy the toys. I probably didn't buy them because they were geared towards girls and as a kid I didn't want to be judged but now as an adult that kind of stuff doesn't bother me.

    Long Live She Ra

  21. #46
    Shera's secret heartthrob oulala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamato Yoshi View Post
    This is my first poll. I was just wondering where the majority of Classic MotU fans stand. Are you a fan of She-Ra and Pop or do you wish they never got tied in with the MotU mythos?

    Let's not fight about it. Just offer your opinion, please. I'm curious.

    Just for the record: my vote is nay.
    Yeah, I'm with Carlo on that one... She-ra is part of the whole mythos whether anyone likes it or not. This thread makes as much sense to me as if an X-man fan started 'Should Storm be part of the X-men' thread or a star wars fan did a 'Should Leia really be Luke's twin sister'? thread. Just let it go!

    PS. CARLOS my god you look JUST like Wolverine on that pic!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    The harsh reality is that the Horde were originally intended for POP, and they have always been intended for POP. Filmation developed the characters for the POP cartoon. It's a fact.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by oulala View Post
    Yeah, I'm with Carlo on that one... She-ra is part of the whole mythos whether anyone likes it or not. This thread makes as much sense to me as if an X-man fan started 'Should Storm be part of the X-men' thread or a star wars fan did a 'Should Leia really be Luke's twin sister'? thread. Just let it go!
    Regardless of what PoP fans want to believe, She-Ra is in no way inextricably intertwined within the MOTU mythos. In your examples you first list Storm, a character who has featured strongly in the comics for the last 30 years as well as in every single non-comic X-Men outing since her debut. Then you list Leia's being Luke's twin, a fact that is shown in two out of the six core Star Wars movies and is also referenced in a staggering number of books, comics and games that comprise the EU. In no way are either of these examples comparable to She-Ra.

    MOTU has been comprised primarily of four cartoons and a movie. They are the filmation MOTU series, PoP, NA, MYP and the movie. At no point is She-Ra referenced or hinted at in any of these things outside of PoP itself. During the filmation MOTU series, there was no sign of He-Man having a sibling and the only PoP connection that ever arose was a brief glimpse of 2 swords in castle Grayskull and the Horde during the episode that shows the Sorceress' origin. These brief glimpses are essentially all that serve to connect the first 130 episodes of MOTU to She-Ra, and taken alone are not enough to show a strong She-Ra connection to the MOTU mythos. There was the MOTU movie which also in no way referenced the fact that He-Man has a sister. I believe that NA didn't reference her either and if it did I suspect the reference was brief and obscure. Most recently, MOTU existed in the MYP series which also didn't reference her or hint at her existence. Finally there was the PoP show itself, which obviously had her in it. Based on this, She-Ra is in no way an inextricable part of the MOTU mythos unless an individual happens to be a fan of PoP. As a consequence, there is ample room to remove her from said mythos.

  23. #48
    Shera's secret heartthrob oulala's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Darth Latveria;2060960]Regardless of what PoP fans want to believe, She-Ra is in no way inextricably intertwined within the MOTU mythos. In your examples you first list Storm, a character who has featured strongly in the comics for the last 30 years as well as in every single non-comic X-Men outing since her debut. Then you list Leia's being Luke's twin, a fact that is shown in two out of the six core Star Wars movies and is also referenced in a staggering number of books, comics and games that comprise the EU. In no way are either of these examples comparable to She-Ra.

    Of course these examples are comparable to She-ra. Storm wasn't meant to be in the original X-men team and yet she's one of the core members now. Yet you could totally be a fan of the original x-men and ignore her... So was Wolverine, who's the most popular character. The fact that She-ra isn't referenced in Motu is just that she wasn't even created at the time.

    As for your argument about storm and leia being in a staggering amount of material, as opposed to She-ra who was only in POP, well, there WASN'T a staggering amount of material featuring He-man, is there? The movie, well She-ra was originally scheduled to be part of it... She was drawn in the MYP cartoon but they didn't have time to get to her... That's about it. It's not like they were a HUNDRED different books and novels and cartoon series that said she DIDN'T exist.

    As for your last line, 'there is ample room to remove her from said mythos', it says it all... She-ra did come after He-man just like Xena came after Hercules. Ignore her if you feel like it, but you won't be able to 'remove' her from the motuc mythos because Myths can't be rewritten by fans... That's the true nature of Myths
    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    The harsh reality is that the Horde were originally intended for POP, and they have always been intended for POP. Filmation developed the characters for the POP cartoon. It's a fact.

  24. #49
    Fake Impostor Non-Fan pH6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oulala View Post
    As for your last line, 'there is ample room to remove her from said mythos', it says it all... She-ra did come after He-man just like Xena came after Hercules. Ignore her if you feel like it, but you won't be able to 'remove' her from the motuc mythos because Myths can't be rewritten by fans...
    There never was a She-Ra for me. And I'm still a fan of MotU over 20 years later. There's a strength of mythos for you. There's absolutely no need to bring on more and more and more people or creatures with magical swords to become the Strongest whichever in the universe. There's a good reason why monotheist religions choose to ignore and banish other gods: They take away the unique epicness of their true one. And that's just one of the issues I have on her.

    As for MotUC: there is no She-Ra. At least not yet. Until one is produced, there is NO She-Ra. Period. I know Toyguru said they're making her, but that very same source also said every single fan can see MotU anyway they want, and it IS canon. If the PoPpers didn't keep dragging her to everybody else's face everywhere (I especially dislike how so many NA threads have somehow ended up lately to PoP vs. NA when that's completely besides the point), there might be more of a peaceful co-existence. Seems to me like we in the party of 'nay' aren't entitled to our opinion somehow.
    "She-Ra, Princess of Power was no more. That had been the price of freedom."

  25. #50
    Shera's secret heartthrob oulala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pH6 View Post
    As for MotUC: there is no She-Ra. At least not yet. Until one is produced, there is NO She-Ra. Period..
    I must ask you... What are you going to do when she-ra is mentioned on Hordak's profile? Cross it with a big black pen?

    You criticize Pop fans's behavior saying we 'keep dragging her' into everything. I think you're being unfair to a community who's been supportive of every MOTU incarnation so far and who's been waiting for a long time to see their favorite characters return to toyshelves... I totally agree with you about maintaining a peaceful co-existence but it's always the same ones that starts the naysaying threads... Have you ever seen a 'Is He-man necessary to She-ra' thread? or 'Are Secondary MOTU characters going to kill the new toyline'?

    Your line about 'Monotheist religion having to banish other gods' is oddly reminding me of intolerent monotheist people who broke church icons or buddha statues because they didn't want other people to worship gods other than their own official one. To me that's the definition of intolerance. Everyone should be allowed to worship whatever idol they've chosen... End of the story!

    As for new stories taking away the epicness of the original one, I kinda agree with you in general when we talk about sequels. Often, a sequel or a spin-off simply kills the concept by over-exploiting it. But then again, some sequels expand the original mythos into new grounds. The Temple of Doom, Empire Strikes Back, Aliens and Dark Knight are a few examples of sequels that (in my own subjective opinion) are better than the original. She-ra's story to me is artistically more compelling than He-man because she's part of a small rebellion on a Totalitarian world. Unlike He-man, Adora starts out as evil so she's not an all-good, one-dimensional character to begin with. In screenwriting that's what you would call a 'character arc'. Adam/He-man never had that to begin with, he's just the good guy.
    I love both characters to death though, so you know...

    I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to imagine your own MOTU mythos. I do it too.
    But for the records, despite what you say, She-ra is ALREADY part of MOTUC. Here is the original text taken right from Matty Mattel's MOTUC page:

    Masters of the Universe® Classics is a brand new action figure line celebrating over 25 years of MOTU history. Here you will find highly detailed, fully articulated figures from the entire spectrum of the worlds of He-Man® and She-Ra™.
    Last edited by oulala; February 18, 2009 at 09:42am.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    The harsh reality is that the Horde were originally intended for POP, and they have always been intended for POP. Filmation developed the characters for the POP cartoon. It's a fact.

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