The Official "Console War" and Video Game Thread

**hemanrep** · October 3, 2006, 03:19pm

Originally Posted by cjclifford

Isn't Microsoft already doing this with the 360? The system logs every game you play on your profile, the last time you played it, and all the achievements you've unlocked for each game. Maybe you'll be able to set up a seperate profile on the Wii just like the 360 so you won't have to worry about any little kiddie games being associated with you.

Yeah, it's not a new feature...Nintendo is just showcasing it.

In my opinion, it's not a big deal.

I hope the rumor of having one friend code per console is true...

**TheDeviot** · October 3, 2006, 09:54pm

DEE DEE DEE!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6159255.html

And in other news, more bad news for Sony

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6159254...ort=1#comments

**CJ Clifford** · October 4, 2006, 09:46am

Originally Posted by TheDeviot

DEE DEE DEE!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6159255.html

I can't imagine anyone being so stupd as to pay someone to get them a higher gamerscore. I like the gamerscore and achievement aspect of 360 games, but damn man. It's not that big a deal. Of course, you can't blame someone for trying to cash in on someone else's stupidity.

Originally Posted by TheDeviot

And in other news, more bad news for Sony

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6159254...ort=1#comments

Poor Sony. They certainly do have my pity. And in this console war, I think that's about all they'll be getting.

**shigsy2003** · October 4, 2006, 02:31pm

Howdy

Woo Hoo, pre-ordered my Wii with Red Steel

Chris M

**AeroStratos88** · October 4, 2006, 03:47pm

Mario Kart didn't do anything to progress the series sorry. All those characters were in previous games as well as minus 2 power ups. And half the tracks were watered down Retro cup. I stated when Mario Kart DS *in it's own thread. came out that this was a step backwards.

And since people don't believe it unless it comes from the horses mouth.

"- Looking at the titles that have been announced so far, the pace at which games are being released is comparable to the N64 and GC.

Miyamoto:
The hardware is basically a GC. We’ve upgraded our development tools to new versions but, you can still use GC programs as they are. With that in mind, I thought we could remake GC titles for the Wii and modify them to work with the Wii remote so that they’re more fun to play.

- "Games will change. The 64 can change them." was the catch phrase then and they really did change.

Miyamoto:
They did but at the same time, there were also a large number of people who weren’t playing games anymore. I think we could clearly see the crowd being split into people who played games and those who didn’t.

The Birth of the GC after Reflecting on the N64

- And then came the time of the GC.

Miyamoto:
Oh yes, the GC that we created because lots of people in society were still playing games. Aimed at the weakening core market, the GC performed much better than the PS2 and was the superior platform to create games on. However, having the trivial feature of being able to view DVDs too, the PS2 opened up a gap between it and the GC."

http://www.gamebrink.com/news/602-Mi...ew_Part_2.html

Yeah so uhm the only reason the GC didn't sell is cause it didn't have a Dvd player. But everyones been screaming already got one don't need another.

People weren't playing games yeah that's why the PS1 sold 100 million + versus the N64s 32.93 million.

The man says yep it's a Game Cube and we plan on remaking GC titles with Wii Mote functionality. No rehashes there.

Give me a break seriously.

Oh and the PS2 has outsold the PS1 and the GC sold less than the N64 21 million is the number. So if you have that many systems out, any technology period, and your selling em that fast then of course some of them are gonna have problems. It's basic laws of probability the more out there the higher number that's gonna be visible. If you look at the actual number that are "defective" versus the number that aren't and are in homes than you nullify your argument. But we wouldn't want that.

**Brett** · October 4, 2006, 04:56pm

Originally Posted by shigsy2003

Howdy

Woo Hoo, pre-ordered my Wii with Red Steel

Chris M

At Gamestop? Are they taking reserves now?

-Brett
Who is all reserved.

={+}=

**The Cimmerian** · October 4, 2006, 05:08pm

Originally Posted by AeroStratos88

Uhm no actually the PSP is a run away success. NO ONE before the PSP has been able to take market share away from Nintendo and they've accomplished that by almost 50%.

True the 2 sytems are a different gaming experience for 1 the top selling software on the DS aren't games. Versus the top selling games on the PSP. It's true the DS is selling more titles of non games but the PSP has more A++ titles as you can clearly see from the metareviews. There are things that aren't done at all properly on the DS for one example Fighting games. And Freind codes is hardly Wi-fi in the same manner that the PSP is wi-fi.

As far as sales go well in Japan maybe. But we live in America where the PSP is a top seller.

This is a financial quote new from the associated press- not fan boy "facts",

According to several news-service reports, the stock drop came after two major analysts downgraded Sony's stock on concerns about its gaming division, Sony Computer Entertainment. "We have adopted a cautious view of the impact of the [Sony] game business on the electronics business this term,'' Goldman Sachs analyst Yuji Fujimori told Bloomberg. Fujimori downgraded Sony's rating from "buy" to "neutral" citing "confusion over the release of PlayStation 3 and concerns [about] disappointing sales of [the] PlayStation Portable," according to the Associated Press.

The PSP is NOT a runaway success, if it were they wouldn't be clearancing the movies studios would be rushing titles out to it and the financial experts would not have downgraded sony's stock to neutral. bad tidings ahead.

funny gif by the way.

**shigsy2003** · October 4, 2006, 05:10pm

Originally Posted by AeroStratos88

Mario Kart didn't do anything to progress the series sorry. All those characters were in previous games as well as minus 2 power ups. And half the tracks were watered down Retro cup. I stated when Mario Kart DS *in it's own thread. came out that this was a step backwards.

And since people don't believe it unless it comes from the horses mouth.

"- Looking at the titles that have been announced so far, the pace at which games are being released is comparable to the N64 and GC.

Miyamoto:
The hardware is basically a GC. We’ve upgraded our development tools to new versions but, you can still use GC programs as they are. With that in mind, I thought we could remake GC titles for the Wii and modify them to work with the Wii remote so that they’re more fun to play.

- "Games will change. The 64 can change them." was the catch phrase then and they really did change.

Miyamoto:
They did but at the same time, there were also a large number of people who weren’t playing games anymore. I think we could clearly see the crowd being split into people who played games and those who didn’t.

The Birth of the GC after Reflecting on the N64

- And then came the time of the GC.

Miyamoto:
Oh yes, the GC that we created because lots of people in society were still playing games. Aimed at the weakening core market, the GC performed much better than the PS2 and was the superior platform to create games on. However, having the trivial feature of being able to view DVDs too, the PS2 opened up a gap between it and the GC."

http://www.gamebrink.com/news/602-Mi...ew_Part_2.html

Yeah so uhm the only reason the GC didn't sell is cause it didn't have a Dvd player. But everyones been screaming already got one don't need another.

People weren't playing games yeah that's why the PS1 sold 100 million + versus the N64s 32.93 million.

The man says yep it's a Game Cube and we plan on remaking GC titles with Wii Mote functionality. No rehashes there.

Give me a break seriously.

Oh and the PS2 has outsold the PS1 and the GC sold less than the N64 21 million is the number. So if you have that many systems out, any technology period, and your selling em that fast then of course some of them are gonna have problems. It's basic laws of probability the more out there the higher number that's gonna be visible. If you look at the actual number that are "defective" versus the number that aren't and are in homes than you nullify your argument. But we wouldn't want that.

Howdy

I know this isn't directed at me but I feel I must respond.

Now I could respond with a list of quotes from the ahem 'brains' at Sony but that would be pointless as I am sure everyone knows all the very silly and contradictory things that they come out with on a daily basis.

You seem to be trying to put Shigsy down with the things that he has said, but they are normal comments that most businesses make when trying tp hype/soften a defeat with regards to a product.

Mario Kart DS did nothing for the series? Well that is your opinion, I personally think it is the best instalment next to Double Dash.

The remaking of GC games to be played on Wii is highly unlikely to happen. This would damage Nintendo and thankfully they have a semblence of intelligence and innovation unlike other companies. I can't see Nintendo wasting the money on remaking Metroid Prime for the Wii just so it can motion control., it doesn't make business sense to do that as hardly anyone would spend the money on it when they know they can play the original on the Wii anyway. Although if they were to do they know the games would have to be sold at about £5 each to even tempt consumers.

Ah why not:

Mr Harrison has said some fairly interesting things: "We don't plan on going down the same path as Nintendo at this time" after the announcement of the Wiimote.

Hmmm nice one Phil...oh yes you said "at this time" okay so companies can change there mind EXCEPT saying "that is a fantastic innovation" and "to say we stole this idea from Nintendo is a little stupid" WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!

You have no interest....oh now you do.....oh you have been planning it for years...oh you didn't steal the idea....DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!!

One more: "I don't think we will take the route Microsoft has with releasing two different versions of a console as it confuses consumers"........hmmmm need I give an explanation to this???????????????????

BRETT: No no at gameplay a UK company, sorry

Chris M

**CJ Clifford** · October 4, 2006, 05:37pm

Originally Posted by AeroStratos88

Miyamoto:
The hardware is basically a GC. We’ve upgraded our development tools to new versions but, you can still use GC programs as they are.

This particular comment about the Wii is another reason I think Nintendo is on the right path this time. Since the Wii in both hardware and software is basically an upgraded version of the Gamecube, developers won't have learn how to program for the Wii. They can take everything they already learned programming games for Gamecube and apply that knowledge to the Wii and expand upon it.

That sounds like a very good thing to me. All too often consoles are replaced much too early and developers have to learn a new set of rules for the "next gen" stuff. I think this approach will help Nintendo out with third party developers quite a bit.

**shigsy2003** · October 4, 2006, 05:40pm

Originally Posted by cjclifford

This particular comment about the Wii is another reason I think Nintendo is on the right path this time. Since the Wii in both hardware and software is basically an upgraded version of the Gamecube, developers won't have learn how to program for the Wii. They can take everything they already learned programming games for Gamecube and apply that knowledge to the Wii and expand upon it.

That sounds like a very good thing to me. All too often consoles are replaced much too early and developers have to learn a new set of rules for the "next gen" stuff. I think this approach will help Nintendo out with third party developers quite a bit.

Howdy

Very very good point, developers will love the fact they don't have to get there heads round another console, and while the Wii is slightly more powerful than an X-Box it will still be a simple console to make games on.

More games = happy Nintendo and consumers

Chris M

**TheDeviot** · October 4, 2006, 07:00pm

Famitsu lists some of the Japanese PS3 game prices at retail at launch:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6159301.html

PC gamers won't be able to pirate Vista (Or so they say):
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6122462.html

Voodoo PC bought out by HP:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6159039.html?q=Voodoo

PC gaming thoughts by Epic games leader Mark Rein, and Supreme Commander developer Chris Taylor (interesting nugget about Rein's thoughts on Intel can be found in this month's CGW soon to be called GFW)
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3153580

Sony jumps on customization bandwagon:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6159277.html

DS continues to open cans of whoop @$$
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6159199.html

WHAT A GUY · October 4, 2006, 07:22pm

Originally Posted by cjclifford

This particular comment about the Wii is another reason I think Nintendo is on the right path this time. Since the Wii in both hardware and software is basically an upgraded version of the Gamecube, developers won't have learn how to program for the Wii. They can take everything they already learned programming games for Gamecube and apply that knowledge to the Wii and expand upon it.

That sounds like a very good thing to me. All too often consoles are replaced much too early and developers have to learn a new set of rules for the "next gen" stuff. I think this approach will help Nintendo out with third party developers quite a bit.

This is what Miyamoto has been saying for a while now.

**Dynamo of Eternia** · October 4, 2006, 08:25pm

Originally Posted by AeroStratos88

Mario Kart didn't do anything to progress the series sorry. All those characters were in previous games as well as minus 2 power ups. And half the tracks were watered down Retro cup. I stated when Mario Kart DS *in it's own thread. came out that this was a step backwards.

Well, as Shigsy pointed out, that's just your opinion.

On top of which, I didn't deny that Mario Kart was rather rehash. Go back and read my previous post if you missed it. I simply made a point about racing games in general which I still stick by.

And since people don't believe it unless it comes from the horses mouth.

"- Looking at the titles that have been announced so far, the pace at which games are being released is comparable to the N64 and GC.

Miyamoto:
The hardware is basically a GC. We’ve upgraded our development tools to new versions but, you can still use GC programs as they are. With that in mind, I thought we could remake GC titles for the Wii and modify them to work with the Wii remote so that they’re more fun to play.

- "Games will change. The 64 can change them." was the catch phrase then and they really did change.

Miyamoto:
They did but at the same time, there were also a large number of people who weren’t playing games anymore. I think we could clearly see the crowd being split into people who played games and those who didn’t.

The Birth of the GC after Reflecting on the N64

- And then came the time of the GC.

Miyamoto:
Oh yes, the GC that we created because lots of people in society were still playing games. Aimed at the weakening core market, the GC performed much better than the PS2 and was the superior platform to create games on. However, having the trivial feature of being able to view DVDs too, the PS2 opened up a gap between it and the GC."

http://www.gamebrink.com/news/602-Mi...ew_Part_2.html

Yeah so uhm the only reason the GC didn't sell is cause it didn't have a Dvd player. But everyones been screaming already got one don't need another.

People weren't playing games yeah that's why the PS1 sold 100 million + versus the N64s 32.93 million.

The man says yep it's a Game Cube and we plan on remaking GC titles with Wii Mote functionality. No rehashes there.

Give me a break seriously.

If they do end up actually flat out remaking Gamecube games exactly as they were, or almost exactly with the exception of whatever needs to be changed to work with the Wii-mote, then I will say yeah, you have a point.

But, that sounds more like a general idea they had and is probably not something they are going to actually do. If it does come to pass, then i will be upset... esspecially if it happens in liu of new games. If it's simply in addition to them, then that's not so bad.

However, I still stick by my overall point that generally speaking, when Nintendo does make sequels, they tend to do more to advance the series than some of the first party stuff for either PS2 or Xbox, and even a lot of 3rd party stuff. They actually often feel like sequels and not just rehashes. Often times in the cases of those other companies, they feel more like minor upgrades than sequels. Are there exceptions to what I just said on both end? - of course. But In general, that's the way it seems to be. And I say this as someone who owns many games systems from several different companies. I'm not just someone who only uses Nintendo's products and then declares it to be the best without even giving the competition a chance.

If this trend in Nintendo's game quality does not end up continuing with this new system, then at that point my opinon will change.

As for the tech basically being the same as the GCN, I agree with what cjclifford said about it being technology that programmers will be able to utilize from the start and not have to learn over the course of time only to finally perfect it just in time for the next technology to come along and have the process start all over again.

And with this sentiment you have about Nintendo, I honestly wonder why you not only continue to buy their products, but rebuy them for minor cosmetic changes. Again, for a company that you don't seem to think highly of, you seem to like giving them your money over and over again.

Oh and the PS2 has outsold the PS1 and the GC sold less than the N64 21 million is the number. So if you have that many systems out, any technology period, and your selling em that fast then of course some of them are gonna have problems. It's basic laws of probability the more out there the higher number that's gonna be visible. If you look at the actual number that are "defective" versus the number that aren't and are in homes than you nullify your argument. But we wouldn't want that.

Look,

I live in a pretty heavily populated area. I live in Aurora, IL, which is right on the border of Naperville, IL. Now, I don't know if you are familiar with this area, but its been growing rapidly for years, and so things like video games sell huge here.

The point is this... I know many people who own PS2s and I know many people who own Gamecubes. It may not be exactly 50/50, but its pretty close (now, I am not denying that PS2 has significantly outsold Gamecube, but I just happen to know a lot of people who own a Gamecube). Of those people, I've heard many, many more complaints about PS2's malfunctioning than Gamecubes. In fact, I don't know anyone personally who has had a Gamecube malfunction (at least nothing beyond a momentary, freak glitch that happened once and then never again). Now, I can probably account for about 12 defective PS2's amongst myself and people that I know, out of a total that would only be a few more than that. It could be a coincidence, but its a pretty amazing one for so many defective PS2's to be in one area.

On top of that, I frequent a couple of different Gamestops and EB Games around here. There is one particular Gamestop that I visit most, but the others I am still at quite a bit. And I've heard more than plenty there about PS2's being defective.

Now, given the amount of games and game systems that are sold around this area, and given how much I get into lengthy conversations with people at these stores, AND given how many people I know with Gamecubes, there is enough being sold around here that even with Gamecube being the significant underdog, if the percentage of defective Gamecubes were as big as you are claiming it to be, I would have heard at least something about it a long time ago. Again, even the Gamestop employee who posted on one of those defective GCN message boards that you linked to said how he never gets calls about defective GCN's. Even with how much fewer they sell, if they were as defective as you say, they would get at least a few calls with the same consistent problem. As it stands, the defects seem minimal, and no one physical store is getting tons of calls about defects, even in areas that would sell many more units.

Are the defective ones out there? Sure. But I still strongly believe that the percentage of them that are defective relative to the number being sold is still severly smaller than the percentage of PS2's that are defective relative to the number being sold.

Again, I didn't go out searching for PS2 defective info. It just came to me through casual conversations with people. Most people whom I've ever spoken to who got a PS2 within the first few years of production (pretty much anything prior to that thin model) have ended up having problems with it. There are only a very few who haven't, and most of them just don't seem to use it very often, thus the same wear and tear is not happening to the system (and the system should be able to stand up to much more wear and tear than these defective ones are going through).

Granted, my personal experiences are obviously not enough to constitute a scientific study. None the less, there's still enough evidence to at least indicate that there are more issues with PS2. And I have no reason to belive otherwise. You can argue that my experience is nothing more than hearsay, but I can argue the same about those message boards that you linked with people complaing about the Gamecube problems (which again, supported my PS2 arguement in many cases, anyway).

If you can come up with some specific statistics done through some kind of scientific, non biased method that is rather reliable with a minimal margin of error that flat out compares the % of defective Gamecubes and PS2's relative to the respective number of each console sold, and shows that those percentages are about the same for both systems or even have the Gamecube as being the one with more problems, then maybe I'll have more to consider in your arguement. But until that happens (or something else to make me change my mind) I am sticking with what I currently believe, because thus far the vast majority of evidence that I have been subjected to supports that belief.

If you look at the actual number that are "defective" versus the number that aren't and are in homes than you nullify your argument. But we wouldn't want that.

Hmmmm.. I don't think you were being condecending enough. Try harder next time.

**Ironman** · October 4, 2006, 11:00pm

I have never heard from anyone I know that they've come across a defective Gamecube. Even at my local video game store it's unheard of. Now the PS2 on the other hand is a different story with huge problems. Aerostratos, show me some real proof that there's been Gamecubes that have been defective and not just some of your friends posting on a message board. I highly doubt you can cause Nintendo makes the mort reliable video game systems around. I can still plug in my NES and beat the crap out of Tyson any time I want and that system is 20 years old. The probelms with Sony has been documented.

I think I can hear stratos drowning.

**CJ Clifford** · October 4, 2006, 11:16pm

Originally Posted by WHAT A GUY

This is what Miyamoto has been saying for a while now.

Good. Our friend AeroStratos88 was trying to put a negative spin on the Wii, and I was trying to illustrate how what he is perceiving as a negative is a positive. It may not win them any points in extra points in graphics (as far as photo-realism is concerned anyhow), but the fact the Wii is more or less an upgraded Gamecube is a huge advantage to Nintendo in the development side of games. The only thing developers will have to really wrap their heads around is the motion sensing stuff, which they can ignore entirely if they so chose.

In other news, if anyone cares, I did purchase a black DS Lite yesterday. Out of the three games I got, not one of them really puts any good significant use to the touch screen. And while New Super Mario Bros is fun, I find it way too easy. I don't know if the bar has been lowered, or if I played the old school Mario games so much that it's impossible for a Mario side-scroller to challenge me. Regardless, I don't regret this purchase. Awesome little handheld. Can't believe how tiny the games are now. Geez! Like a frickin' postage stamp.

**IronAvatar** · October 5, 2006, 08:39am

Originally Posted by cjclifford

...but the fact the Wii is more or less an upgraded Gamecube is a huge advantage to Nintendo in the development side of games. The only thing developers will have to really wrap their heads around is the motion sensing stuff, which they can ignore entirely if they so chose.

In my experience, making the Gamecube execute even the most basic of requirements for a game in 3D is a complete pain, and really not worth the effort involved. Oh yes....I can just see those developers lining up to work with the SAME crippled hardware that was in the Cube.

They could have atleast added Altivec support to the BROADWAY, instead of keeping some half arsed SIMD co-processor which only performs operations on float-pairs (hullo Nintendo!? even the PS1 had proper support for 3d operations).

It's also important to keep in mind that there weren't that many people developing for the cube. So really...most developers are going to be learning a NEW hardware platform for the Wii that, as they are going to find out, is absolute hell to develop for in practice.

Nintendo: Sure, we have test stations. But oh..sorry...you can't connect them to a PC to allow non-programmers to test the game. You'll have to instead, buy a spindle of special disks for $200, and a burner for $5000. Yes, we know it's restrictive, but we don't care what you think. Go make a game.

Sony: Yes. We have test-stations. No you don't need to burn disks for them, just hook them up over the LAN or by firewire. The cost? Only $250. Cheers.

But ofcourse...it's really the games that matter. And there were SO MANY great games for the Gamecube. [/sarcasm].

I'm still of the opinion that the Wii-mote is pretty limited in what it can be used for. I've had the "honour" of handling one at my previous employer, and had a look at what they had in mind for it. Oh just "thrilling" stuff.[/yet more sarcasm]

I'm betting that this time next year, all we'll see is a load of games that use a sword as the weapon of choice, with one or two variations (shotgun add-on). A whole slew of "bat" games (tennis, table tennis, badmington, cricket, baseball)...sort of like the original Atari bat 'n ball games..."20 amazing games in one console".

Hah. We are amused.

**Dynamo of Eternia** · October 5, 2006, 09:05am