The Official "Console War" and Video Game Thread

[The Cimmerian]

I also thought this article was interesting, it brings up the notion that Sony is fighting itself again

Playstation 2 surpasses Playstation 3 in weekly sales
http://gaming.monstersandcritics.com...n_weekly_sales

I also point to this as a continuing reason as to the reason people rejoice in Sonys problems, you get the feeling that in Sony's eyes there is absolutely nothing wrong with the PS3 and the Wii is just a fad (which is may very well be)

"Meanwhile, Sony Computer Entertainment of America spokesperson Dave Karraker went on the record with the New York Times earlier this week to lump the Wii in the same category afforded to supermarket tabloids and packets of M&Ms: the impulse buy.

"Wii could be considered an impulse buy more than anything else," Karraker stated, asserting that the Playstation 3 was in a much different category than the Wii and therefore it was a case of apples and oranges to compare the two. Whether the Wii will win out with this strategy in the long-term remains to be seen, though the impulse buy of that console currently seems to have the edge over the higher price point of the heavyweight Playstation 3."

well of courase the sony guy is going to try to spin it the way he wants to make hios company look better - esp since the PS3 has been getting a lot more negative buzz now aElectric Playground actually doesn't recommend the system. anyway $300 is not quite an impulse price point. augh stop the damn spin sony and spend that time energy and creativity on bringing reasons for people to want the PS3 rather than just saying "it's blu-ray it's hi def" give us something worthwhile to DO on the damn system and do it WELL!

[IronAvatar]

well of courase the sony guy is going to try to spin it the way he wants to make hios company look better - esp since the PS3 has been getting a lot more negative buzz now aElectric Playground actually doesn't recommend the system. anyway $300 is not quite an impulse price point. augh stop the damn spin sony and spend that time energy and creativity on bringing reasons for people to want the PS3 rather than just saying "it's blu-ray it's hi def" give us something worthwhile to DO on the damn system and do it WELL!

Judging from the up-coming european release, there's a LOT of cool things to do with the system. With games being available on Disc and for download, I'd say that's something to look forward to.

And as for Blu-Ray? It's catching up with HDDVD pretty fast and that's a big thing; especially with Sony owning most of the studios behind summer blockbusters and a huge commitment from Disney to BR.

I had to laugh at this, because there were a couple of Wii's sitting in a store just across from where I worked and I ALMOST bought one on impulse. Are you just mad because maybe he's right? After all, I thought the Gamecube...sorry...Wii was an easy console to manufacture and this was its main strength in the global war against Sony?

But here we are two months after it's release and they're just trickling into the store....Nintendo seem to be creating an artificial demand all by themselves. And if you doubt that they would do something like that, take a look at those figures for game sales.

What's with the lack of third party DS games in the charts? Dominated by Nintendo! I wonder if Nintendo suddenly telling all third party DS developers that cartridge reproduction times would be increased after October had anything to do with it? Nintendo completely screwed over the third party DS developers this Christmas, and I'm betting they'll do the same this year with the Wii.

[Oceanwalker]

Just to continue on from markatisu's post...

Media Create Numbers:

DSL 194,526
Wii 83,754
PSP 35,700
PS2 20,995
PS3 19,996
Xbox360 7,365
GBM 1,177
GBASP 1,023
GC 347
DS 82
GBA 34


01. (PS2, Capcom) Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas - 227261 / 227261
02. (NDS, Square-Enix) Dragon Quest Monsters Joker - 103706 / 1026700
03. (NDS, Sega) Sangokushi Taisen DS - 77229 / 77229
04. (NDS, Nintendo) Picross DS - 71794 / 71794
05. (NDS, Nintendo) Hotel Dusk: Room 215 - 59379 / 59379
06. (WII, Nintendo) Wii Sports - 58886 / 910422
07. (NDS, Nintendo) Wario: The Seven - 47350 / 138599
08. (WII, Nintendo) Wii Play - 43612 / 808425
09. (PS2, Hackberry) Pachinko Winter Sonata - 41411 / 41411
10. (NDS, Nintendo) More Brain Age - 34028 / 3902307

11. (NDS, Nintendo) New Super Mario Brothers
12. (NDS, Nintendo) Common Knowledge Training
13. (NDS, Nintendo) Animal Crossing Wild World
14. (PS2, Konami) Prince of Tennis: Doki-Doki Survival
15. (360, Bandai-Namco) The Idolm@ster
16. (NDS, Nintendo) Mario Kart DS
17. (NDS, Pokemon) Pokemon Diamond
18. (NDS, Nintendo) English Training
19. (NDS, Nintendo) Brain Training
20. (PS2, Sega) Shining Force EXA
21. (NDS, Spike) IQ Supply
22. (NDS, Pokemon) Pokemon Pearl
23. (NDS, IE Institute) Kanji Brain Test 2M
24. (PSP, Konami) Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops
25. (PS2, Bandai-Namco) .hack//G.U. Vol. 3
26. (NDS, Nintendo) 1000 Recipes
27. (WII, Nintendo) Wario Ware Smooth Moves
28. (PSP, Capcom) Monster Hunter Portable
29. (PS3, From Software) Enchanted Arms
30. (PS2, Flight-Plan) Dragon Shadow Spell

---------------

The DS and Wii are outselling the PSP, PS3, and PS3 combined. To top that off, is it just me, or are PS3 sales dropping every week in Japan, a country who Sony was betting on just as much as the US?

Go ahead and call me a "Nintendolic" but if you go to the PS3 IGN Insider forums, it's hard to find any positive stuff there and I doubt they are "Nintendolics."

Well, lol, I didn't see too many negative posts there, maybe you were fishing for them perhaps?

I can go to the Wii board and everything isn't coming up roses either. You can also go to the gamespot forums and see all the positive threads there.

In fact, everyone is looking forward to March where a lot of good games are coming out for the PS3.

BTW, my nephew is playing more Cube games on the Wii than Wii games as he enjoys them better. But maybe he's an anamoly, like all the people who think the Wii is some sort of aerobics miracle worker.

[markatisu]

BTW, my nephew is playing more Cube games on the Wii than Wii games as he enjoys them better. But maybe he's an anamoly, like all the people who think the Wii is some sort of aerobics miracle worker.

I play more cube games then Wii games at the moment (finishing up the Cube Fire Emblem now) but that does not mean anything.

It reinforces my point earler on the PS2 issue, most people who buy a Wii probably are going to replace their gamecube (I know I did, I had 2 gamecubes) but at the moment people WONT be replacing their PS2's (not yet, not till there is probably a $100 price drop)...which is why the PS2 is beating the PS3 in sales.

It will be interesting to see the Euro launch and its numbers since Sony is already having to defend itself on price due to the VAT that increases it (and they have a valid point about people not adding sales tax in the US to the overall price, we are talking almost $50-100 more US dollars if people added in sales tax in some states)

I have seen more and more posts "Are you bored with your Wii" and I think those are just retarded, most of the games that came out were party games but solid single player games are coming out shortly.

Though I went back to both those Walmarts yesterday and the Wiis that were there were all gone so artificial shortage or not Ironman they are still selling. Reminds me of an episode of Queer as Folk on Showtime where they said the way to get people to buy something is to make them think they cant have it!

[discosupafly]

Judging from the up-coming european release, there's a LOT of cool things to do with the system. With games being available on Disc and for download, I'd say that's something to look forward to.

And as for Blu-Ray? It's catching up with HDDVD pretty fast and that's a big thing; especially with Sony owning most of the studios behind summer blockbusters and a huge commitment from Disney to BR.

I had to laugh at this, because there were a couple of Wii's sitting in a store just across from where I worked and I ALMOST bought one on impulse. Are you just mad because maybe he's right? After all, I thought the Gamecube...sorry...Wii was an easy console to manufacture and this was its main strength in the global war against Sony?

But here we are two months after it's release and they're just trickling into the store....Nintendo seem to be creating an artificial demand all by themselves. And if you doubt that they would do something like that, take a look at those figures for game sales.

What's with the lack of third party DS games in the charts? Dominated by Nintendo! I wonder if Nintendo suddenly telling all third party DS developers that cartridge reproduction times would be increased after October had anything to do with it? Nintendo completely screwed over the third party DS developers this Christmas, and I'm betting they'll do the same this year with the Wii.

So basically any reports stating that the PS3 isn't selling well are either grossly exaggerated or just plain untrue, and any reports staing that the Wii is selling well are either grossly exaggerated or just plain untrue?

Sure, OK. Gotcha. Thanks for the tip..

[The Cimmerian]

Judging from the up-coming european release, there's a LOT of cool things to do with the system. With games being available on Disc and for download, I'd say that's something to look forward to.

And as for Blu-Ray? It's catching up with HDDVD pretty fast and that's a big thing; especially with Sony owning most of the studios behind summer blockbusters and a huge commitment from Disney to BR.

I had to laugh at this, because there were a couple of Wii's sitting in a store just across from where I worked and I ALMOST bought one on impulse. Are you just mad because maybe he's right? After all, I thought the Gamecube...sorry...Wii was an easy console to manufacture and this was its main strength in the global war against Sony?

But here we are two months after it's release and they're just trickling into the store....Nintendo seem to be creating an artificial demand all by themselves. And if you doubt that they would do something like that, take a look at those figures for game sales.

What's with the lack of third party DS games in the charts? Dominated by Nintendo! I wonder if Nintendo suddenly telling all third party DS developers that cartridge reproduction times would be increased after October had anything to do with it? Nintendo completely screwed over the third party DS developers this Christmas, and I'm betting they'll do the same this year with the Wii.

I'm not mad about anything I just get annoyed with the corporate spins. they messed up the launch right now the PS3 sucks. it's not worth the price point. will that change? It could very easily, it's more so that the sony camp is mad that they aren't in first and no one is clamouring for their brand new product now so they are looking to belittle the competition in whatever way they can. it's just like political mudslinging which bugs me too. I don't care what their pinion is on the competition make me want YOUR product instead of making me not want the other one.

Just like Pepsi ads and how they always put down Coke where as Coke ads basically act like pepsi doesn't even exist. Sell the product to me rather than downsell the competition.

As for the blu-ray thing my point on that is I don't friggin CARE about that for a gaming system, I want to play great games I want a fun and memorable experience I know it's part of the system and a selling feature but we KNOW that already what we don't know is why should we fork out $700 dollars for this damn thing future releases?? they can easily get canned or they can easily suck - you know as a game developer (as you pointed me to herdy gerdy and the getaway) that as great and promising as new software looks it can really die during development and suck.

As for the Wii being easy to make you said in an earlier post about the PS3 also being made up of off the shelf stuff overall. so what is the downside when it comes to the Wii? you don't like nintendo fine - as a gamer or as a developer it's your opinion but honestly man, if i'm going to shell out almost a grand on anything it had BETTER give me something that I enjoy. And most families most PEOPLE in general don't spend $300 on anything impulsively times are hard everything costs a lot more and wages haven't increased to reflect that - if YOU can spend that much impulsively then good for you. but really I'm sick of hearing spinning just give me some good stuff. if they want my money give me a GREAT reason to give it up. $700 can buy me a lot of stuff. dammit it's almost a month's rent!

BTW, my nephew is playing more Cube games on the Wii than Wii games as he enjoys them better. But maybe he's an anamoly, like all the people who think the Wii is some sort of aerobics miracle worker.

um it's a simple fact get your body moving you burn calories you burn enough calories you lose weight - where is the mystery behind that?? i've played it and you can get a good workout there is no "I think it can work miracles" behind it it's a simple fact that it can make aerobic exercise fun.

Again it just seems the sony fans are upset that they aren't number one right now. that could easily change because look sometimes in business you get comfortable at number one you take it for granted and the competiton gets on your ass and hands it to you. if you are smart it will teach you a lesson and in the end the consumers win out.

[IronAvatar]

So basically any reports stating that the PS3 isn't selling well are either grossly exaggerated or just plain untrue, and any reports staing that the Wii is selling well are either grossly exaggerated or just plain untrue?

Sure, OK. Gotcha. Thanks for the tip..

You're funny. Where did I say any of that? Yup, the Gamecube2 is selling EXTREMELY well, just like the original Gamecube before it. Even I was tempted to buy one as an impulse purchase.

But I think Sony are spot on in saying that Nintendo are creating a false market by limiting the availability of the console. After all, everybody thought sales of PS3 were going through the roof because SO many people wanted one, but the truth was that there were barely any to buy. Nice PR right?

Nintendo have sold a lot of consoles...of that I have no doubt. But right now, all I'm hearing stories of "store x has four machines that were sold in a day". I'm sorry, but Nintendo are more than capable of shipping enough units to keep consumers happy.

They did it for launch, so what's stopping them now?

Anyhow....euro PS3 launch in March, and I've almost convinced my fiancee that I can afford a console AND the rest of the stuff for our wedding. I'll let you know about my own experiences with the supposedly steaming pile of silicon that everybody (who doesn't own one) says that it is

I'm not mad about anything I just get annoyed with the corporate spins. they messed up the launch right now the PS3 sucks. it's not worth the price point. will that change? It could very easily, it's more so that the sony camp is mad that they aren't in first and no one is clamouring for their brand new product now so they are looking to belittle the competition in whatever way they can. it's just like political mudslinging which bugs me too.

I'm not mad that the PS3 isn't number 1. I AM Dissapointed in Sony for severley screwing up the launch, and plain hubris though.

I don't care what their pinion is on the competition make me want YOUR product instead of making me not want the other one.

I think that've already tried that, but everybody seems to be EXTREMELY hostile towards Sony, no matter what they do. If they say "hey, it's powerfull" everybody says "we don't care".

If they say they have a pad that can sense changes in orientation, everybody says "you copied nintendo. oh, and we don't care".

If Sony say "we have downloadable games" people point out that Nintendo and Microsoft do this already.

As for the blu-ray thing my point on that is I don't friggin CARE about that for a gaming system, I want to play great games I want a fun and memorable experience I know it's part of the system and a selling feature but we KNOW that already what we don't know is why should we fork out $700 dollars for this damn thing future releases??

The thing about blu-ray on the PS3 is that it's not just about movies. The games REALLY need that kind of storage, and a dual-layer DVD or HDDVD just doesn't match up in that department. But I've pointed this out already, and nobody seems to care....they're all so wrapped up in this format war crap.

As for the Wii being easy to make you said in an earlier post about the PS3 also being made up of off the shelf stuff overall. so what is the downside when it comes to the Wii?

That is an extremely good question, and I hope that I can give you a good answer to that one. It's really about how the components are used...where Nintendo has just made the same bits faster, Sony has put them together in different ways to provide a more powerfull platform.


The problem I have with the Wii? Nintendo are making me pay over 240 euros for something that's only worth 120 at retail. The machine costs less than 60 euros to put together. I'm not even mad that it's just an overclocked gamecube anymore...I see what they've done and I applaud them for really getting into the headspace of a new market. Good job there Nintendo!

Oh. And frankly? There's nothing I want to play on the Wii. Somebody pointed out that I hadn't played TP long enough to get into it....it's a video game, I shouldn't NEED two or three hours to START enjoying it.

I have CoH and other things on my PC if I want to get that sort of deep gameplay.

you don't like nintendo fine - as a gamer or as a developer it's your opinion but honestly man,

I think Nintendo make great games. I just hate working with them, because I know as soon as there is a conflict of interests, they'll screw you over. And they NEED third party developers if they don't want a repeat of the N64 and the Gamecube.

[hemanrep]

Well, lol, I didn't see too many negative posts there, maybe you were fishing for them perhaps?

I can go to the Wii board and everything isn't coming up roses either. You can also go to the gamespot forums and see all the positive threads there.

In fact, everyone is looking forward to March where a lot of good games are coming out for the PS3.

BTW, my nephew is playing more Cube games on the Wii than Wii games as he enjoys them better. But maybe he's an anamoly, like all the people who think the Wii is some sort of aerobics miracle worker.

If you say so, but I'm sure everyone will be buying God of War 2 in March (I will be) over any PS3 game.

I'm done arguing about Wii versus PS3. Everyone can believe what they want and I'll just roll with the best games on every console, that's what I've always done, that's what I'll keep doing.

As for "fishing" for negative threads, hardly. I never go beyond the second page of any message board. Dying PS3s, Metal Gear 4 delay possibilities, fans being upset about a possible price cut coming soon (I would be too if I paid for the full price then it drops half a year later)...but yeah the Wii has a drought just like the PS3 and 360 so those might be the negative posts you see. But people see what they want to see.

[Oceanwalker]

um it's a simple fact get your body moving you burn calories you burn enough calories you lose weight - where is the mystery behind that?? i've played it and you can get a good workout there is no "I think it can work miracles" behind it it's a simple fact that it can make aerobic exercise fun.

Again it just seems the sony fans are upset that they aren't number one right now. that could easily change because look sometimes in business you get comfortable at number one you take it for granted and the competiton gets on your ass and hands it to you. if you are smart it will teach you a lesson and in the end the consumers win out.

Upset? No, its just asanine for Sony to have a few launch issues and then you guys want to extoll the virtues of the Wii. The Wii is a novelty. I've played it, it holds my attention for 20 minutes until I get bored with it.

If you say so, but I'm sure everyone will be buying God of War 2 in March (I will be) over any PS3 game.

I'm done arguing about Wii versus PS3. Everyone can believe what they want and I'll just roll with the best games on every console, that's what I've always done, that's what I'll keep doing.

As for "fishing" for negative threads, hardly. I never go beyond the second page of any message board. Dying PS3s, Metal Gear 4 delay possibilities, fans being upset about a possible price cut coming soon (I would be too if I paid for the full price then it drops half a year later)...but yeah the Wii has a drought just like the PS3 and 360 so those might be the negative posts you see. But people see what they want to see.

And yup, I'll be buying GOW2 when it comes out but come on, Wiis have died or have tech issues as well (I dont know why the Nintendo fanboys want to paint it as something the PS3 only does). There will not be a price cut anytime soon for the PS3, do your research instead of listening to your "sky is falling" buddies and you'd see that.

I dont know why you're arguing about the Wii vs PS3 in the first place. One is a upgrade over the Gamecube and the other is actually for people who want to "play beyond."

In all seriousness though, its apple vs oranges.

[hemanrep]

Upset? No, its just asanine for Sony to have a few launch issues and then you guys want to extoll the virtues of the Wii. The Wii is a novelty. I've played it, it holds my attention for 20 minutes until I get bored with it.



And yup, I'll be buying GOW2 when it comes out but come on, Wiis have died or have tech issues as well (I dont know why the Nintendo fanboys want to paint it as something the PS3 only does). There will not be a price cut anytime soon for the PS3, do your research instead of listening to your "sky is falling" buddies and you'd see that.

I dont know why you're arguing about the Wii vs PS3 in the first place. One is a upgrade over the Gamecube and the other is actually for people who want to "play beyond."

In all seriousness though, its apple vs oranges.

Why I'm arguing? Same reason why you keep praising the PS3 and downplaying the impact the Wii is having...again, see what you want, read what you want. I could care less. It seems like I'm only arguing with you anyways...no need to pay attention to what you have to say anymore.

As for no price cut, straight FROM the IGN PS3 Board:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5958

Sony is looking to 65nm production to cut costsSony considers trimming the price of its new PS3

Sony's PlayStation 3 hasn't even been on the North American market for three months, but the company is already considering a price cut on its new console. Sony trimmed the price of the most basic PS3 in Japan before it even launched and a price cut in North America could help to boost slow initial sales.

"We may look at the price as part of our strategy to expand the market when the timing is right," said Sony Senior Vice President Takao Yuhara at company headquarters. An analyst for Lazard Capital Markets suggests that the price cut could come as early as this year.

Many question, however, if Sony can pull off this feat so early in the game. Sony has seen its Q3 profits fall 5.3% from a year ago along with a $455 USD million USD loss for its games division (compared to a $556 USD million profit a year earlier). Microsoft, in comparison, witnessed a $289 million USD loss for its Entertainment and Devices division.

One must also take into consideration that according to iSuppli, Sony is losing $307 on every 20GB PS3 that it sells and $241 on every 60GB PS3. The bigger loss on the 20GB unit explains why the 60GB unit accounts for 80% of the sales mix in the United States.

A move to 65nm production could ease the pain of trimming costs on the console. Sony has recently stated that it has already started production on a number of 65nm components and has realized a 40% size reduction in comparison to 90nm components. The company is also looking to reduce the number of parts used in the PS3 to lead to even deeper cost reductions.

But what's bad for Sony will likely turn out to be good for the consumer. Most consumers don't really care if Sony is losing money on the PS3 -- all they care about is getting the Blu-ray equipped console for a lower price. If Sony is successful with its bid to lower its own costs on the console, consumers might just get their wish sooner than expected.

Again, read what you want, say what you want, I'm done arguing with you. I'm ready to discuss things with reasonable people.

[Oceanwalker]

Why I'm arguing? Same reason why you keep praising the PS3 and downplaying the impact the Wii is having...again, see what you want, read what you want. I could care less. It seems like I'm only arguing with you anyways...no need to pay attention to what you have to say anymore.

As for no price cut, straight FROM the IGN PS3 Board:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5958

Sony is looking to 65nm production to cut costsSony considers trimming the price of its new PS3

Sony's PlayStation 3 hasn't even been on the North American market for three months, but the company is already considering a price cut on its new console. Sony trimmed the price of the most basic PS3 in Japan before it even launched and a price cut in North America could help to boost slow initial sales.

"We may look at the price as part of our strategy to expand the market when the timing is right," said Sony Senior Vice President Takao Yuhara at company headquarters. An analyst for Lazard Capital Markets suggests that the price cut could come as early as this year.

Many question, however, if Sony can pull off this feat so early in the game. Sony has seen its Q3 profits fall 5.3% from a year ago along with a $455 USD million USD loss for its games division (compared to a $556 USD million profit a year earlier). Microsoft, in comparison, witnessed a $289 million USD loss for its Entertainment and Devices division.

One must also take into consideration that according to iSuppli, Sony is losing $307 on every 20GB PS3 that it sells and $241 on every 60GB PS3. The bigger loss on the 20GB unit explains why the 60GB unit accounts for 80% of the sales mix in the United States.

A move to 65nm production could ease the pain of trimming costs on the console. Sony has recently stated that it has already started production on a number of 65nm components and has realized a 40% size reduction in comparison to 90nm components. The company is also looking to reduce the number of parts used in the PS3 to lead to even deeper cost reductions.

But what's bad for Sony will likely turn out to be good for the consumer. Most consumers don't really care if Sony is losing money on the PS3 -- all they care about is getting the Blu-ray equipped console for a lower price. If Sony is successful with its bid to lower its own costs on the console, consumers might just get their wish sooner than expected.

Again, read what you want, say what you want, I'm done arguing with you. I'm ready to discuss things with reasonable people.

Reasonable people being other Nintendoholics or Talking Mario Heads?

[Backwards Man]

It's just a matter of time before PS3 dies out and Xbox and Nintendo are left...however, if they cut the price for the PS3 it may attract more gamers back. Then again if the systems keep crashing and the bugs arn;t fixed...price means nothing.

[hemanrep]

Yeah don't worry about it. It's cool. I don't resort to name calling.

But if the PS3 did drop in price, it would be more enticing to a lot more people.

[Oceanwalker]

It's just a matter of time before PS3 dies out and Xbox and Nintendo are left...however, if they cut the price for the PS3 it may attract more gamers back. Then again if the systems keep crashing and the bugs arn;t fixed...price means nothing.

Do you really believe that? Sony has the PS2 still on the market, which is still a sturdy and viable machine, - one of the things about Sony systems is their long shelf life.

The Sony prez has pretty much promised a shelf-life of 10-years. I dont think even the NES/SNES/N64 or GC has had shelf-lives of that long but the PS2 and PS1 def has lived long lives.

[Backwards Man]

I didn't say anything about the PS2, only that the PS3 won't survive... Unless they make some quick changes, which there has been some indication that they are fixing them as we speak.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Do you really believe that? Sony has the PS2 still on the market, which is still a sturdy and viable machine, - one of the things about Sony systems is their long shelf life.

The Sony prez has pretty much promised a shelf-life of 10-years. I dont think even the NES/SNES/N64 or GC has had shelf-lives of that long but the PS2 and PS1 def has lived long lives.

NES probably didn't quite make it to 10 years, but I think it came pretty close, if I recall correctly.


None the less, as great as a shelf life of 10 years may well be, there's still a different between that and the system having 10 years worth of new, worthwhile products and games coming out to maintain the interest of both recent adopters of the system as well as those who jumped on board at launch.


As I pointed out previously, while the PS1 was still around for a good while after PS2 launched, it eventually got to a point after the PS2 was established where there wasn't much in the way of good quality new material coming out for the PS1. There were mostly little games that seemed to appeal mostly to kids coming out for it (and not like Mario, which would appeal to both kids and adults, but games geared specifically for kids.. Stuart Little comes to mind). Other than that, it was mostly riding off of the continued sales of established Greatest Hits games.

Now, there's nothing wrong with that. If Sony can continue to make extra money by simply cheaply selling products that have been around for a while, then more power to them. However, speaking as a PS2 owner who's had the system since launch (even if the particular unit I am using now isn't the same one that I got at launch), I know that any quality remaining games coming out for PS2 are going to be few and far between. And probably within a year, they will be released, resulting in few new games coming out for it, and the ones that do most likely being geared towards children and generally being something that I won't be interested in playing.

So, the 10 year "shelf life" doesn't mean much to me and others like me (meaning others who've had the PS2 since launch, and not necessary people who have the same current low opinion of Sony that I have). For people like us, we pretty much already have whatever we are going to have for the system game wise, sans the one or two more quality titles coming out and maybe hunting down a used game here and there that we never got around to getting previously. (I guess it will be nice to be able to go out and get a new, unused system if this other one my wife and I have ever ends up having the DRE problem).

Yeah, it's great that Sony will continue to make some extra bucks off of this stuff, and it's great for people who want some games to play but don't want to shell out the cash for the latest thing. But for everyone else, it doesn't mean much. My PS2, original Xbox, and Gamecube game collections are pretty well established. Maybe there will be one or two cases of new games of interest still coming to the market that I may get, but that's not much. So, other than that, I probably won't ever be buying any new games for these systems ever again (since there really won't be any of interest that I don't already have). So, the fact that one system is still on the market continuing to sell it's popular titles and another one isn't means very, very little.


Heck, even the original NES was in a similar situation when it was still floating around after SNES had become established. Very few games were coming out for it, and the ones that were certainly were nothing to brag about.

So, I really can't blame other companies when they stop selling their older systems sooner. If people really want them, they can get them used. And this way they can just push their newer products onto the market.

This whole "10 year shelf life" would only mean something to me if it meant 10 years worth of good, quality games coming out for the system. But as that most likely won't end up being the case, it's very misleading.

[discosupafly]

I think that've already tried that, but everybody seems to be EXTREMELY hostile towards Sony, no matter what they do. If they say "hey, it's powerfull" everybody says "we don't care".

If they say they have a pad that can sense changes in orientation, everybody says "you copied nintendo. oh, and we don't care".

Here's a wild and crazy idea - and just off the top of my head. Why don't Sony try saying "Hey! Look at all these really fun PS3 games that you can play on the system RIGHT NOW!!"

Perhaps the whole (E=MC Blueray) equation just isn't cutting it for a lot of potential consumers. Not least those who would have to shell out about a thousand bucks to get things running so they can play.. umm... Gears of war. And then maybe .. err, ... Gears of war?

Just a crazy thought, I know, but bare with me for a moment here: Perhaps, just perhaps, some people want to play at least a few fun games on their new console right now. It's crazy, yeah? But hey, it's a strange world...

If Sony say "we have downloadable games" people point out that Nintendo and Microsoft do this already.I just hate working with them, because I know as soon as there is a conflict of interests, they'll screw you over.

And I'm just 100% sure that this hasn't affected your preferences at all in this matter. Nor would it prevent you from admitting that the future currently seems brighter for the Wii than for the PS3 whether you like it or not.

[Oceanwalker]

Here's a wild and crazy idea - and just off the top of my head. Why don't Sony try saying "Hey! Look at all these really fun PS3 games that you can play on the system RIGHT NOW!!"

Perhaps the whole (E=MC Blueray) equation just isn't cutting it for a lot of potential consumers. Not least those who would have to shell out about a thousand bucks to get things running so they can play.. umm... Gears of war. And then maybe .. err, ... Gears of war?

Just a crazy thought, I know, but bare with me for a moment here: Perhaps, just perhaps, some people want to play at least a few fun games on their new console right now. It's crazy, yeah? But hey, it's a strange world...


And I'm just 100% sure that this hasn't affected your preferences at all in this matter. Nor would it prevent you from admitting that the future currently seems brighter for the Wii than for the PS3 whether you like it or not.

To be honest, I think a lot of rational people who aren't into the instant gratification thing we've been ground into becoming are simply being patient and doing the wait and see. We knew what we were getting and not getting when we bought a PS3.

However, this is a "console war" thread and as such some people are going to be taking shots. It is worth mentioning though that Blu-Ray sells are now out-pacing HD-DVD sales which does bode well for the PS3.

From EGM:

EGM: Sony CEO Howard Stringer once ... admitted that the price of the PlayStation 3 is very high, but what we're really paying for is potential. Why can't we pay $600 for something that's worth the price right off the bat?
JT: What have you historically paid or would look to pay? Let's say $299 because that's what you paid for the PS2 when it came out or because that's what the low-end 360 costs. OK, if we're asking you to pay $600 for the high-end PS3, I would point out a couple of things. Historically our platforms have staying power. Not three years, not five years, but 10 years. So are you making an investment for the next 45 days, the next year, the next five years, 10 years? Because that would have a little bit of determination as far as the value. I understand your point about, OK, the potential is there, but what's there day one? I would say that the PS3 has the best gaming experience of any platform that's ever shipped day one. [You're getting] the combination of great gaming, free online play, Blu-ray movie playback, being able to go online and surf the Internet, the ability to download your pictures, download your videos, rip your music to it ... and that's all stuff that I as a consumer experienced firsthand. If you want the ultimate gaming experience and you value all of those other experiences, all of a sudden 599 bucks doesn't sound like a whole lot of money.

and from pcauthority.com...

"The first independent data on Blu-ray and HD-DVD disc sales has found that Blu-ray is outselling its rival by a factor of more than two to one.

Figures gathered by Nielsen VideoScan show that for every 47.14 HD-DVDs discs sold in the first week of January, 100 Blu-ray discs were sold. By the second week in January the HD-DVD figure had fallen to 38.36.

The most popular film with the Blu-ray camp is Crank, a thriller with Jason Statham playing an assassin who is poisoned and must keep his heart rate up to stay alive.

HD-DVD buyers are more tempted by Batman Begins and Mission Impossible III."

[Dynamo of Eternia]

From EGM:

EGM: Sony CEO Howard Stringer once ... admitted that the price of the PlayStation 3 is very high, but what we're really paying for is potential. Why can't we pay $600 for something that's worth the price right off the bat?
JT: What have you historically paid or would look to pay? Let's say $299 because that's what you paid for the PS2 when it came out or because that's what the low-end 360 costs. OK, if we're asking you to pay $600 for the high-end PS3, I would point out a couple of things. Historically our platforms have staying power. Not three years, not five years, but 10 years. So are you making an investment for the next 45 days, the next year, the next five years, 10 years? Because that would have a little bit of determination as far as the value. I understand your point about, OK, the potential is there, but what's there day one? I would say that the PS3 has the best gaming experience of any platform that's ever shipped day one. [You're getting] the combination of great gaming, free online play, Blu-ray movie playback, being able to go online and surf the Internet, the ability to download your pictures, download your videos, rip your music to it ... and that's all stuff that I as a consumer experienced firsthand. If you want the ultimate gaming experience and you value all of those other experiences, all of a sudden 599 bucks doesn't sound like a whole lot of money.

I hate to beat a dead horse here, but again, I feel compelled to point out the flaws in the 10 year 'staying power' logic. They are saying this as though 10 years from now we can still expect to see a bunch of quality games coming out for PS3. However, if 5 or 6 years from now they release PS4, then you can bet that the last few years of PS3's 10-year life span (if it manages to last that long) are just going to be them selling the system and the older popular 'greatest hits' games at lower prices to people who don't buy these systems when they first come out and don't want to spend a lot of money. There will likely be little to no new content coming out for it, and any that does probably won't be anything that most die hard gamers will have much interest in.

People who are buying PS3 now, or who will be within the next couple of years aren't going to get much out of it past the 6th year mark (7th tops) unless Sony actually decides to let the PS3 be it's only major console on the market and doesn't even release PS4 until at or close to the 10th anniversary of PS3, thus allowing PS3 to be Sony's main system that games are released on.


As for the price, sure $600 doesn't sound bad for someone who intends to use PS3 for all of the functions that it does, but for someone who doesn't care much about many of those features and just wants a game system, it's not very appealing.


Now, despite my overall dislike of Sony, I may eventually get a PS3 if it comes down in price and some games that I would enjoy come out for it. If Sony can really turn things around and make me feel like I can rely on their product, then a time may come when I don't feel as badly about them as I do now.

But thus far Sony hasn't released any PS3 games that I can't get on other systems that I really want. Ok, sure, it's an 'investment' in the future. But again, aside from maybe Resistence (which doesn't appeal to me, personally), there's nothing out for it NOW that I want. And since there's onvious flaws in this whole "10 year life span" arguement if we look at PS1 as precident (and you are not the first one I've heard use this 10 year arguement), the span during which good quality games actually come out for the system isn't going to be as huge as they make it out to be. Sure, it will still be several years, which is still a significant amount of time. None the less, it's not THAT much more of an amount of time than what the life spans of Wii and 360 releasing quality games will be. The PS3 may simply just end up lingering on the shelf for a few years longer to squeeze whatever extra cash it can out of the late adopters who don't like to shell out tons of cash for the latest thing.

If I jump on PS3 now, I will likely only get 5 to 6 years of significant new gaming use out of it (maybe 7 if I am lucky). Those last 3 to 4 years won't offer much to someone who's had the system for quite some time already.

If Sony say "we have downloadable games" people point out that Nintendo and Microsoft do this already.I just hate working with them, because I know as soon as there is a conflict of interests, they'll screw you over.

Well, when you really get right down to it, how is your opinion of Microsoft and Nintendo really any different than how many of us feel about Sony?

As I've stated in the past, I own both PS1 and PS2 (and I got PS2 at launch). I didn't just start out hating Sony. It was a series of gradual experiences as a gamer and consumer that made me feel about them as I currently do.

Obviously, from your standpoint as a programmer, you've had negative experiences with Nitendo and Microsoft, thus why you prefer Sony over them.

So in both cases, it's the negative experiences with one or two companies in the industry that causes us to prefer the other(s).

I don't see why that makes our opinions any less valid.

Okay, many people accuse Sony of copying others. It certainly seems to be the case. Granted, copying the ideas of others is something that most all companies in the gaming industry do at one point or another, but usually there's at least something a little more new to go along with it than what Sony seems to be offering, IMO. Plus, Sony's timing on these things doesn't help. It's one thing for one console to do something, then for others to copy it years later. But when Sony comes out with a motion controller just months after Nintendo announces theirs... that is certainly eyebrow raising material.

I respect your opinons as a programmer.

However, with all due respect, as a consumer, my main concern is getting more quality games available for me to play, with as much variety as possible.

While I know you don't like the idea of Nintendo and Microsoft focusing on first party gaming as much as they do, I think it's great. It results in more variety of games.

The problems that I had with the PS2/Xbox/GCN system generation was that for the most part (particularly with PS2 and Xbox) you'd get the same 3rd party games coming out for both systems, with only a handful of exclusive content on each that is really worth while. So, essentially, with me being a gamer across the board, I am buying multiple systems to get their exclusives, but those are few and far between, and otherwise the same games get released for both.

Gamecube was great, IMO, because I enjoy Nintendo's first party stuff and that was such a huge part of what that system was all about. Sure, for many it would have been nice for there to be more 3rd party content than there was, but if that had been the case, then it just would have been even more of a clone of the other two systems.

Back in the SNES/Genesis days, things were great. Both systems had a wide variety of games. Sure, there were some 3rd Party games that came out for both systems, but both also had a HUGE selection of exclusive content (both first and third party). That's what made owning both systems so great.

Today, on the other hand, more 3rd party stuff goes multi-platform than used to. I understand that it's in the interest of making as much cash as possible, but none the less, as someone who buys multiple systems, it seems silly that I can get mostly the same content on all systems, with only a handful of exclusive stuff on each of them that is really worth the purchasing of a whole new unit.

So, to me, I prefer these companies using tactics to keep as much content exclusive to their systems as possible. I'm sorry for what this may mean to some programmers, but it helps keep things more fresh and interesting, thus having a wider variety of games come out for all to enjoy.

[Ironman]

Three games were added to the virtual console today. I have to admit that Super Mario World is a must and Vigilante sounds good.

WII-KLY UPDATE: THREE NEW CLASSIC GAMES ANNOUNCED FOR WII SHOP CHANNEL


Feb. 5, 2007

Today Nintendo adds three new classic games to the popular Wii™ video game system's Wii Shop Channel. The games go live at 9 a.m. Pacific time. Nintendo adds new games to the channel every Monday. Wii owners with a high-speed Internet connection can redeem Wii Points to download the games. Wii Points can be purchased in the Wii Shop Channel or at retail outlets. This week's new games are:

Super Mario World™ (Super NES®, 1-2 players, 800 Wii Points): During a vacation in Dinosaur Land, Princess Toadstool gets kidnapped and a spell is cast on the inhabitants of the island. When they stumble upon Yoshi™, a young dinosaur, Mario™ and Luigi learn that Bowser is responsible for the terrible misdeeds. Now, all Yoshis are trapped in magical eggs that Bowser has hidden throughout seven castles. Many hidden paths aid Mario in making his way to Bowser's castle, completing 74 areas and finding all 96 exits. Discover items, including a feather that gives Mario a cape that allows him to fly, or a flower that shoots fireballs in layers upon layers of 2-D scrolling landscapes. Players can even ride Yoshi and swallow their enemies.

VIGILANTE™ (TurboGrafx-16, 1 player, 600 Wii Points): Brave the streets of New York City in this side-scrolling beat-'em-up game. Thugs kidnap the beloved Madonna, and it's up to players to become vigilantes. Players fight their way into enemy territory to get her back. Enemies attack with weapons like iron pipes, chains, guns and motorcycles. To fight back, players can punch, kick or use the "nunchaku" item that appears in the stage. Players must use each of the attacks effectively to defeat their enemies. To clear a stage, defeat the boss that waits at the end. Players fight their way through exciting stages that include the City Streets, Junkyard, Brooklyn Bridge and the Backstreets.

Gain Ground™ (Sega Genesis, 1-2 players, 800 Wii Points): It's the 31st century, and science and technology have progressed to the point that the human race is approaching perfection: no war, no poverty and no conflict. With nothing to worry about, the human race seems destined to live forever in harmony. But what if Earth came under attack? By this point in time, people did not know how to cope with problems or conflicts, and had completely lost their survival instincts. In response to this, the United Earth Government created the Gain Ground system, a war simulator that would help humans rediscover their lost instincts. After several terrible malfunctions, the creators became prisoners in their own creation. Now it's up to players and two courageous comrades to go into the Gain Ground system, rescue their fellow humans and destroy the system. Players battle through different periods in history as they revive their survival instincts, while trying to live.

[IronAvatar]

for the ps3 owners, this is something i have been wondering about... does the disc constantly spin when you are playing games or is it like the ps2 with the load times and such? this is mainly curiousity because i am wondering if the ps3 will eventually suffer the same fate as ps2's used as dvd players with that dreaded DRE.

aside from games not up my alley, this is one of a few reasons i am waiting past the launch period of ps3 hardware (besides not having an hd set yet).

That really depends on the game. A game like GTA constantly keeps the disc spinning so that it can stream in data, and most games will do this so they can stream in audio during play.

And load times for games also depends on the loading strategy. If you think load times are bad on most PS2 games, you should try some of the stuff I've had to put up with during development. I was working on an Unreal Engine based game until 15 months ago, and levels would take anything close to 20 minutes to load over the DEC10 protocol.

[MattOnDemand]

Super Mario World! Nice new addition this week! Can they make it 4 weeks in a row next week??

[Skullface]

Super Mario World! Nice new addition this week! Can they make it 4 weeks in a row next week??

Well, the US should (hopefully) get Donkey Kong Country SOMETIME in the near future, as everybody else has had it for weeks now.....

Next week would be nice.....

[hemanrep]

Well, the US should (hopefully) get Donkey Kong Country SOMETIME in the near future, as everybody else has had it for weeks now.....

Next week would be nice.....

I think we might be getting it next week. Nintendo Power says it coming it REALLY soon. I'm waiting for Streets of Rage!

[PanMan]

Well I finished Zelda TP on Sunday. I must say it feels a bit disapointing. Not the ending, but that I finished such a great game. The final couple of dungeons were nothing to brag about in my opinion (especially the last one), but the final boss was pretty good. I especially liked the hand to hand combat at the very end. Man, my arms were waving in every which direction for like 15 minutes! With the sword swinging in the right hand, and trying to constantly roll in behind him and give a spin attack with the nunchuk . . . it was more intense than the first time I boxed (and trust me, that was intense ). But still, sad to see the game end.

I would rate it overall not quite as good as OOT, but still a fabulous game. I haven't actually finished OOT yet (I will once it's released on the VC), but the overall tone in that game is more innocent. Not that the tone in TP isn't, but I love all the "You don't know anything. You're just a kid!" stuff in Ocarina of Time. It just has a warmer feeling. There are definitely stuff I like better in both games (I hate the projectile aiming in OOT but it is perfect in TP), but I'll give the edge to OOT.

Now I just have one question about after you finish the game. When I went back into the save file, it was as if I had gotten to the final boss, saved, and quit. Everything seems to be the same as if it was still before the boss battle. Now, I haven't actually went in the dungeon and tried to fight him again, so I don't know if you can, but is this normal? I guess this way it allows you to continue the game and collect the remaining stuff, but I was hoping to get some reaction from the characters after I freed the Kingdom (aside from the end cinematics with the credits).