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Thread: The Official "Console War" and Video Game Thread

  1. #4826
    Heroic Warrior IronAvatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolf-manj View Post
    has anyone read the greenpeace report on the 3 consoles?
    http://www.gamespot.com/news/6191284.html
    The usual scare mongering from your local eco-communists. Please note that these chemicals are only a hazard when working with them, not in their final form in the consoles.

    Personaly, I don't trust any figures or "findings" that Greenpeace publish. A good example is the report that they did on the stand-by consumption of the three consoles, with the 360 and PS3 being quoted with their active figures, not the stand-by figures.

    The Wii is actually the most power hungry in stand-by, not the PS3 or 360.

    So if you DO read the report, do some digging. Don't rely on their "research" alone. Don't assume that just because their interest is in protecting the environment, that they actually know what they're talking about.

    And if you want a really great example of how they'll happily quote erroneous data to further their cause, take a look into their so called report on the Brent Spar. I'll happily support any action that saves our planet, but not at the cost of progress.

    I believe that humans should learn change our ways so that any impact we have on our environment is minimal, and is such that the planet can recover from it in a minimal amount of time. So that recovery takes less time than damage.

    But Greenpeace want it so that we have no impact what so ever. And that's just not possible or feasable. Maybe it's about time we started protesting against organisations like Greenpeace and tell them the scaremongering is the sort of thing totalletarian governments use to take controle....not free-thinking, responsible individuals.
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  2. #4827
    Almighty Dictator Skullface's Avatar
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    Critter Round Up available now on WiiWare:

    http://wii.ign.com/articles/875/875404p1.html

    And keep an eye on Amazon over the next 24 hours. Their Gold Box "deals of the day" will all be video game related starting shortly. Hopefully there'll be some decent stuff.....
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  3. #4828
    Heroic Warrior wolf-manj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronAvatar View Post
    The usual scare mongering from your local eco-communists. Please note that these chemicals are only a hazard when working with them, not in their final form in the consoles.
    according to the article on gamespot thats what the report said. It wasn't really a hazard to consumers.

  4. #4829
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    New Tales of Symphonia trailer, this is the sequel to the Gamecube Tales of Symphonia game (which is awesome btw, 2 discs of JRPG fun)



    Hopefully this thing sells (the Gamecube one was the highest selling RPG on the platform) as well as its predecessor so we can get some high quality RPG's on the Wii
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  5. #4830
    Almighty Dictator Skullface's Avatar
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    Interesting read if you want to know some Capcom sales numbers:

    http://ps3.ign.com/articles/876/876329p1.html
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  6. #4831
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    Ducktales 1.6 million, Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers 1.4 million, Aladdin 1.75 million....

    Those were the days

    Disney Interactive would have a stroke if they could sell their games in those numbers in todays market, so far the best they have done is High School Musical Sing It with almost 800k across the PS2/Wii and Hannah Montana DS with almost 1 million
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  7. #4832
    Almighty Dictator Skullface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Ducktales 1.6 million, Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers 1.4 million, Aladdin 1.75 million....

    Those were the days

    Disney Interactive would have a stroke if they could sell their games in those numbers in todays market, so far the best they have done is High School Musical Sing It with almost 800k across the PS2/Wii and Hannah Montana DS with almost 1 million
    Yeah, now if we could get Nintendo, Disney & Capcom all happy-like, we could get these on the VC.......
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  8. #4833
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullface View Post
    Yeah, now if we could get Nintendo, Disney & Capcom all happy-like, we could get these on the VC.......
    There is an interesting article that came out today about that and other licensed games we may never see....I would link to it but its got some language (mostly in reference to the quality of current Disney games) that prohibits me from linking

    But it puts the blame squarely on Disney, saying that since they have formed Disney Interactive they have no desire to share profits with Capcom, Sega, or Virgin in order to pay to re-release any of their NES/SNES/Genesis games again
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  9. #4834
    Loco Motu Vato ehenyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolf-manj View Post
    has anyone read the greenpeace report on the 3 consoles?
    http://www.gamespot.com/news/6191284.html
    Meh. I bet my microwave and TV have worse materials.
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  10. #4835
    Almighty Dictator Skullface's Avatar
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  11. #4836
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    I got Wii Fit last week. I really like it. Between MK and Wii Fit, I have finally have a reason to play my Wii.

    (I can't remember if I've already posted this...here it goes)

    I preordered mine. A lady in front of me also preordered. While she was picking hers up she asked when they will have more in. The gamestop guy said "Christmas"
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  12. #4837
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    Dr. Mario finally arrives on Wii Ware, debating whether to download Metal Slug or not since its $9 here and the compilation disc can be found for $20 with 1-5

    WII-KLY UPDATE: TWO WIIWARE GAMES AND TWO VIRTUAL CONSOLE GAMES ADDED TO WII SHOP CHANNEL

    May 26, 2008

    This week's Wii-kly Update pretty much covers the full spectrum. Maybe you'll want to blast away with an arsenal of old-school weapons. But then again, three-day weekends are a good time to relax. So maybe you'll take a wild road trip or settle in for some table tennis. And if you overdo it, we have a physician standing by.

    Nintendo adds new and classic games to the Wii Shop Channel at 9 a.m. Pacific time every Monday. Wii™ owners with a high-speed Internet connection can redeem Wii Points™ to download the games. Wii Points can be purchased in the Wii Shop Channel or at retail outlets. This week's new games are:

    WiiWare™

    Dr. Mario® Online Rx (Nintendo, 1-4 players, Rated E for Everyone, 1,000 Wii Points): The doctor is in! Mario™ takes a break from his adventuring ways and once again dons his stethoscope for a new generation of germ-battling mayhem. In addition to the classic mode of using vitamins to exterminate viruses, you'll find two battle modes and an online multiplayer mode where you can hone your skills against players from around the world. Feel like challenging a friend who doesn't have Dr. Mario Online Rx? Then the WiiWare-exclusive Friend Battle Demo is just what the doctor ordered. Or maybe you'd like some help taking on those nasty viruses? Try out Virus Buster, where four players can simultaneously move capsules simply by pointing at them with a Wii Remote™ controller. Any way you look at it, Dr. Mario Online Rx is a prescription for fun that everyone can enjoy.

    Family Table Tennis (Aksys Games, 1-2 players, Rated E for Everyone, 500 Wii Points): It's time for some good old family fun, and what's more fun than table tennis? Just like a real family, choose your character from a cast of four, which includes Daddy, Mommy, Sarah and Billy. There are four table tennis-tastic stages where it doesn't matter if you're an indoors or outdoors table-tennis player. Pick your poison from a gymnasium, a forest park, a beach or even an amusement park. Choose from Single or Versus mode, or select a minigame to play. In Versus mode, you and a friend can play against each other to see who is the better table-tennis player. And if Single and Versus modes aren't enough, select between three minigames, which include Target Table Tennis, Thrilling Table Tennis and Matching Table Tennis. The appealing cell-shaded graphics and endearing music, on top of the super-fun game play, will have you and your family playing from morning till night. Get your paddles ready.

    Virtual Console™

    City Connection™ (NES®, 1-2 players, Rated E for Everyone - Comic Mischief, Tobacco Reference, 500 Wii Points): Based on the arcade hit, a young man born in California sets out to tour famous sites and cities around the world. As he drives the highways surrounding these locations, the road is painted white as proof of his visit. Only once all sections of the road have been painted will he move on to the next location in his world tour. Not surprisingly, the local police will chase the driver and do their best to stop him from completing his goal. In addition, cats roam the highways and spikes lie in wait for unsuspecting drivers. To combat these dangers, the driver's customized car can jump, fire cans of oil and collect balloons to warp to a new stage. It's the ultimate road trip.

    Metal Slug (NEOGEO, 1-2 players, Rated T for Teen - Blood, Violence, 900 Wii Points): Released in 1996 by SNK, Metal Slug is a side-scrolling military-action game. Players control Marco and Tarma, both members of the special-ops force Team Peregrine Falcon (commonly known as Team PF), and battle their way through stage after stage of intense action. The goal is to try to overthrow General Morden and win back the stolen weapon, the Metal Slug. Players must blast through waves of enemies and machines (while also jumping over any obstacles in the way) to advance through the stages. It's not as hopeless as it might sound, though—weapons such as heavy machine guns, shotguns, rocket launchers and flamethrowers, as well as the Metal Slug itself (which appears frequently in the game), will make the battle easier. Take on General Morden with a friend to lighten your load and ramp up the excitement even more.

    For more information about Wii, please visit wii.com.
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  13. #4838
    Drinking Innocence TheDeviot's Avatar
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    Buy the anthology Markatisu. It's all SIX Metal Slugs for $20. I bought that at launch. You can't go wrong with it
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  14. #4839
    Poopie Flingin' Monkey! Slothboy's Avatar
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    Just borrowed Assassin's Creed from a friend the other day and have been playing it like crazy. However not because its fun but because I was figuring that all the trouble i was having with it was because I sucked not the game so I just kept playing and practicing. However, my final decision is that it looks amazing but the play control is absolute garbage. I'm soooooo glad I borrowed instead of just going out and buying it. I honestly think I would let people kick me as hard as they can in the goin before ever putting this game back in my 360. It's crappy play controls really frustrated me that bad.

  15. #4840
    Almighty Dictator Skullface's Avatar
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    Ninja Gaiden 2 gets an 8.7

    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/876/876569p1.html

    Also, some great news for Oddworld fans!

    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/876/876641p1.html
    Last edited by Skullface; May 27, 2008 at 12:43pm.
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  16. #4841
    Heroic Warrior Epicasino's Avatar
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    Has anybody tried the homebrew channel for the Wii? You don't need a mod chip for this, just the twilight hack.

  17. #4842
    He-Man's PR: No Comment hemanrep's Avatar
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    Interesting read:

    http://gonintendo.com/?p=44255

    “So I started working in the games industry recently on a fairly major project for the Wii. I’ve sat through a couple big reviews, where the studio’s executives sit down and play through the latest additions to the game and voice their feedback. Let me tell you that, as a newcomer to the games industry and a Nintendo fanboy, I was unprepared for what I heard.

    The people that matter in this fairly large studio (and their publisher, marketing staff, etc.) think that the Wii is a kiddy console and are forcing us to tone down our game to make it more casual. While I can’t go into details, we are making a skill-based game that has a lot of potential, but the execs keep telling us to strip out core gameplay elements in order to make it more friendly for the casual player. We can’t have difficulty settings to be raised or lowered, gritty stories, or complicated puzzles, just a fun casual game that can be picked up and put down at will. THANKS GUYS, I’VE ALWAYS WANTED TO MAKE A Sh!77y CASUAL GAME.

    Also, they talk in f*(%ing review numbers. “I think reviewers will give this about a 85 right now, but if you change this, we might bump it up a couple of points.” What the f^%k, guys.

    TLDR: 3rd parties are ruining the Wii.”
    Really interesting...

  18. #4843
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hemanrep View Post
    Interesting read:

    http://gonintendo.com/?p=44255



    Really interesting...
    the business side of art generally ruins the art. happens in movies gaming, comics, toys everything. really sucks.
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  19. #4844
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    the business side of art generally ruins the art. happens in movies gaming, comics, toys everything. really sucks.
    if thats what developers are going through we are all screwed. Games are not poorly rated because they are hard to get into, they are poorly rated because they are shallow, lack depth, and don't deliver to either core or expanded audience.

    Just shows the massive disconnect with the big companies this gen, its similar to how they want to push really pretty games that suck (Assassins creed for example) because they think next-gen = graphics only
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  20. #4845
    Heroic Warrior Flor2099's Avatar
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    I will, as always, just stick with Nintendo-created games then. It's the only way the video game industry hasn't disappointed me.

  21. #4846
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flor2099 View Post
    I will, as always, just stick with Nintendo-created games then. It's the only way the video game industry hasn't disappointed me.
    Surprisingly Square I think will be giving the Wii the most Nintendo like quality games, they have already done some amazing things on the DS and if FFCC My Life as a King is any indication then I cant wait to see if/when they reveal the Wii FFCC game (in 2009-2011)

    I think Capcom will also continue to try and produce good games, their efforts on the Wii have been some of the best even if they include ports.
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  22. #4847
    Heroic Warrior IronAvatar's Avatar
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    It's funny you guy should be discussing Nintendo and third party developers attitudes to making games for it. I think this is something that can be applied to both the Wii and the DS right now.

    I'm currently off work, recovering from a rather horrendous lower wisdom tooth removal. To offset the boredom, I finally managed to buy Zelda: The Phantom Hour Glass for the DS.

    I didn't play much last night, but what I did see of the game impressed me to no end. I mean technicaly, it's a real treat. Having struggled with many of the DS's quirks (and there are many of them!) in the past it sort of hit me once again, that the only way you can make a great game on a Nintendo is by having the sort of unlimited time and money budgets that Nintendo seem to have.

    The "it's finished when it's finished" attitude is something that has always been the mark of a company that, while profits are important, it's more important to make a great game. And this brings me on to the article.

    The attitude of the "suits" is typical of many, many companies, and it's not limited to Nintendo's hardware, although it might be happen more due to the very strange target audience of the Wii. These guys start out by going;

    1) What's the sales projection for a game on this platform?
    2) How much monet will that generate?
    3) What percentage of that will be development costs?
    4) What kind of game can me make on those development costs?

    And of course, they see review scores as being very important to helping achieve point 1. This leads them to pander to reviewers as well as what they percieve as their target audience with "popular features", which ruins the whole game.

    I always thought that if you just made concentrated on making a great game and marketed it in a smart way, the rest would just follow naturally. Or am I spreading heresy talking like this....I know it feels that way when I explain this to my bosses
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  23. #4848
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronAvatar View Post
    I always thought that if you just made concentrated on making a great game and marketed it in a smart way, the rest would just follow naturally. Or am I spreading heresy talking like this
    You are speaking with common sense, I do not think that is allowed

    Seriously though, I agree with what you said and it just reinforces what a lot of us have said time and again that good marketing and a solid game = big sales

    The last 5 years especially I have seen an increase in advertising and a decrease in game quality, its almost like most companies have no idea how to balance the two.

    Nintendo and Square come to mind as being able to manage the two concepts perfectly fine, ironically both have the same "its done when its done" attitude about their big games and the ability to flesh out the wait time with new IP's that are not solely created to generate mass profit

    I think a lot of this goes back to my argument I made earlier this month, the industry has gotten too used to massive front loaded sales instead of slow churning big lifetime sales. With few exceptions (New Super Mario Bros, Nintendogs, Pokemon, Final Fantasy) the entire DS line of games has started slow and ended huge (Zelda Phantom Hourglass for example was not a huge hit but consistently sold for 3-4 months and turned 1 million easy) and the Wii is following suit in many ways.....whether thats good or bad I guess depends on how badly you need the money

    All I know is it has to be frustrating to be a game developer!
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  24. #4849
    Heroic Warrior IronAvatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    I think a lot of this goes back to my argument I made earlier this month, the industry has gotten too used to massive front loaded sales instead of slow churning big lifetime sales. With few exceptions (New Super Mario Bros, Nintendogs, Pokemon, Final Fantasy) the entire DS line of games has started slow and ended huge (Zelda Phantom Hourglass for example was not a huge hit but consistently sold for 3-4 months and turned 1 million easy) and the Wii is following suit in many ways.....whether thats good or bad I guess depends on how badly you need the money
    There's a big difference between a company like Nintendo, EA, Square etc. compared to most third party developers when it comes to reliance on profits. A company like Nintendo has multiple revenue streams, (merchandise, licensing fees, and others) not to mention having, multiple games being developed around the same time.

    This means that it's not a big deal if the game gradually hits 1 million in sales, because there's always a steady slow of cash coming in from other channels. But traditional third parties don't have that luxury...their only business is to make a game, and typicaly, only one game at any given time. So they rely on getting in the profits really quickly to help justify and fund the NEXT game, as well as helping to pay the bills to stay above water.

    But if you have constant revenue streams, then you don't have to worry about where and when they money is coming from. It's just steadily flowing in, like many small streams that have been dammed and turn into a huge lake within a period of time. If you want water, it's aleays immediatly available, assuming that you use it sensibly and the streams keeps on flowing.

    I can take that analogy even further and say that third party developers are people with buckets, trying to fill them up from just one stream and so their always rushing back and forth without any real progress.


    And I think this is what needs to change. Third party developers need to diversify in what they do, and part of this entails that those who do have their own IP, try to keep a hold of it as tightly as they can and not give it away to the publisher. This boils down to the pure unfairness of the stranglehold the publishers have on developers, and the relationshop between the two is huge post in itself.

    So really...developers need to think beyond the scope of a single game that's being developed in 12-18 months. They need to think of a way to increase the number of their revenue streams, and look at earning back their costs over a longer, more realistic time period.

    I have a few ideas on how to do that, which I can't share with you guys right now. But obviously, one of those is a no brainer which is "stop having such huge development costs".
    Last edited by IronAvatar; May 28, 2008 at 04:28am.
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  25. #4850
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronAvatar View Post
    There's a big difference between a company like Nintendo, EA, Square etc. compared to most third party developers when it comes to reliance on profits.
    There are other 3rd party publishers I swear before 2010 everyone will be owned by EA or Activision.

    I can take that analogy even further and say that third party developers are people with buckets, trying to fill them up from just one stream and so their always rushing back and forth without any real progress.

    And I think this is what needs to change. Third party developers need to diversify in what they do, and part of this entails that those who do have their own IP, try to keep a hold of it as tightly as they can and not give it away to the publisher. This boils down to the pure unfairness of the stranglehold the publishers have on developers, and the relationshop between the two is huge post in itself.
    Wont this only get worse though as more developers get locked into the few publishers available?

    I have a few ideas on how to do that, which I can't share with you guys right now. But obviously, one of those is a no brainer which is "stop having such huge development costs".
    Yeah you are right about that, its interesting to see when looking back at the N64, PSX and PS2 era how good sales (enough to continue development on a sequel) were judged by 300-500k of a game and incredible sales were 1 million + and not the norm, now (and I think a large part is due to budget both development and advertising) the industry judges a "good" sales game at 1.5 million + and I think thats really unrealistic. It would be like expecting every movie mediocre or not to break $100 million

    Capcom surprisingly is one company that still sticks to the older methods of judging sales, they routinely lowball their sales expectations in the shareholder reports and fiscal projections and still consider games as low as 200k worldwide a success because they are in line with development and marketing costs.
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