The Official "Console War" and Video Game Thread

[markatisu]

from the reviews I've read Lair was crap. I don't know anyone who liked it. That being said I will still probably rent it. What is HS?

Heavenly Sword, it was wayyyyy too short and all downloadable content is said to be directly tied to sales (meaning if it does not sell well enough we wont see anything added to the game).

[redskyy]

I wouldn't really be surprised if MGS4 did go multi-platform. Almost all of the other MGS games eventually found its way to other consoles. While this could detract away from Sony's gains, 12-14 months is quite a wait. I'm still going to call this rumor until there is more concrete evidence, but it does seem inevitable. Perhaps by then, one of those infamous Michael Pachter predictions will come true. I would think trading Mass Effect for MGS4 over a year after release would be fair.

Today's VC update:



Nothing for me, by I know there are Bubble Bobble fans out there.....

I haven't picked up too many VC games, but Bubble Bobble does look tempting. I used to play a lot of BB, Rainbow Islands, and it's many other spin-offs,and this would be a good party game.

[markatisu]

I wouldn't really be surprised if MGS4 did go multi-platform. Almost all of the other MGS games eventually found its way to other consoles. While this could detract away from Sony's gains, 12-14 months is quite a wait. I'm still going to call this rumor until there is more concrete evidence, but it does seem inevitable. Perhaps by then, one of those infamous Michael Pachter predictions will come true. I would think trading Mass Effect for MGS4 over a year after release would be fair.

I don't mind ports or multiplatform release at all, what I have a problem with is when they are gimped or have issues that the originals did not.

Thats been my biggest problem so far is games like Orange Box, Lost Planet (from reports of the recent build), Assasins Creed and Madden 08 all have framerate and other issues that their 360 counterparts do not. Their is no excuse when the PS3 which is much more powerful then the 360 gets crapped on just because developers dont understand or are not given the time to do the port/release correctly. I would rather wait extra months to get it polished and released properly then get the game and be upset because its got glitches the other systems do not.

Oh and I finally got around to playing Nights 2 on Wii, here are my thoughts from the initial time spent

PLAY AS WILL FIRST, His path is much easier in my opinion then the girl

The Good

• Amazing cinemas to start the game, Square level CGI in intro
• Controls are fast and fluid
• In game graphics are very nice, much better than initial shots, no shovelware. Some levels just georgous
• Online is lag free and fast (like MOHH2 fast), I played a guy from Canada a bunch of times and it was fast
• Music is flawless, up there with Mario Galaxy as best soundtrack

The Bad

• On foot missions blow, thankfully they go by fast
• wiimote/nunchuck or classic controller only good schemes, wiimote by itself blows
• Controls not as fluid as Saturn, almost all Nintendo octagon fault, if the circle was without the octagon it would be 100% replica of Saturn feel
• Barely anyone playing online, nobody to play on normal basis compared to recent online releases like MOHH2 and GHIII who always have people on (Later at night though more overseas people were online)
• In game cutscenes look partially done (compared to CGI Intros), its like they were rushed to get the game and forgot to finish the polish. You can tell game was rushed with difference between high quality CGI movies, fast actual gameplay and crappy in game cutscenes which rival early PS2/ late PSX quality.

Overall thoughts: If you owned Nights on the Saturn its a MUST buy, if you have never played Nights before then rent or wait till price drop.

The music and feel of flying is instant nostalgia, especially in later levels. Scoring is somewhat different and flying takes some getting used to but Nights veterans only need some practice before the old skills return.

As I played more I was getting higher and higher grades but be prepared to get E's and D's till you learn the feel for the controls. I really think if Sega had given this game about 1 more month of development time it would have just been all we waited 11 years for, you can see the potential and feel what 1-2 more months would have been (especially when going from the movies to the cutscenes).

[redskyy]

I don't mind ports or multiplatform release at all, what I have a problem with is when they are gimped or have issues that the originals did not.

Thats been my biggest problem so far is games like Orange Box, Lost Planet (from reports of the recent build), Assasins Creed and Madden 08 all have framerate and other issues that their 360 counterparts do not. Their is no excuse when the PS3 which is much more powerful then the 360 gets crapped on just because developers dont understand or are not given the time to do the port/release correctly. I would rather wait extra months to get it polished and released properly then get the game and be upset because its got glitches the other systems do not.

That's why we're constantly seeing the big PS3 titles get delays. It just takes more time to develop for the PS3, be it a port or original title. With Sony finally giving a helping hand to developers with various dev kits and tools, I hope this speeds up development time a bit. Given the comments made about Burnout Paradise being developed with the PS3 as the lead platform, I'm assuming the (eventual) MGS4 port won't have any problems. If this turns out to be a good thing for all platforms, then I hope other developers follow suit.

Overall thoughts: If you owned Nights on the Saturn its a must buy, if you have never played Nights before then rent or wait till price drop.

The music and feel of flying is instant nostalgia, especially in later levels. Scoring is somewhat different and flying takes some getting used to but Nights veterans only need some practice before the old skills return.

I was very disappointed to see so many critics pan the release of NiGHTS on Wii, especially since some claimed to be fans of the original. I was hoping for good motion controls, but I just wanted an experience comparable to the original.

I may have to check this out after all.

[markatisu]

I was very disappointed to see so many critics pan the release of NiGHTS on Wii, especially since some claimed to be fans of the original. I was hoping for good motion controls, but I just wanted an experience comparable to the original.

I may have to check this out after all.

Yeah I think a lot of them were disappointed in what they thought "should" have been done. I take issue with almost every one of the reviews and wonder if they even finished the game because once you play through all the levels you can play anyone you want just to try and up your score (score attack style) which is the essence of Nights.

And also I take issue with their disregard for online, I played a Canadian player several times tonight in a race and it was great. However I rank 1647 so that means I am not too good yet

If you read almost every review though (1up, gamespot, ign) they all say the same thing. They say its a solid game and that it adheres to the standards set by the Saturn but that it fails in the new direction they tried to take it (story, platforming levels)

I still maintain after playing it had the in game cutscenes looked like the intro CGI's (the main one and the intro story for each character) that it would have gotten much higher scores because they are beautiful. Anyone who is not blind can see the quality of the in game engine was levels above the cut scenes so there is no excuse why the in game cut scenes appeared as they did...besides being rushed.

The gameplay though is pure old school Nights, if you switch to the Gamecube controller you will almost have exact Saturn controls and will be more likely to get A's and B's then D's and E's for scores. The only downside that I think people will be frustrated in is getting through the platforming parts and stuff that seems to be more of "we included this to see if it would work or not"

The wiimote by itself is hard to use because the way Sonic Team implemented it its more like you are guiding Nights (instead of say a racing type of control where the wiimote is held on its side).

I prefer using the nuchuck and wiimote, but I have yet to figure out how to pull off tricks with that combo since the B,Z,A buttons all act as boost and on the Gamecube/Classic Controller the shoulders act as tricks (if I remember)

For an old school fan there is nothing like hitting a 20 + ring combo and hearing the orchestral music

[krosfyah]

That's why we're constantly seeing the big PS3 titles get delays. It just takes more time to develop for the PS3, be it a port or original title. With Sony finally giving a helping hand to developers with various dev kits and tools, I hope this speeds up development time a bit. Given the comments made about Burnout Paradise being developed with the PS3 as the lead platform, I'm assuming the (eventual) MGS4 port won't have any problems. If this turns out to be a good thing for all platforms, then I hope other developers follow suit.

l.

its still so ironic to me that sony is suffering this because it's the EXACT same thing sega went through on the saturn EXCEPT people would just dismiss the saturn as weaker than the ps1 instead of realizing what was really the case (hard to program for) as I recall there were several saturn games that the ps1 just wouldn't have been able to handle - I think nights was one of them not to mention the capcom fighters of the time (ps1 had to remove frames of animation and cut out the tag team stuff as well as the bigger characters) Sega suffered this fate during the dreamcast too as there were also several titles that the ps2 wouldn't have been able to handle in full either Jet set radio being the first to come to mind.

anyway history goes to show that ease of programming tends to be more favourable than performance power. Sony is luckier than sega however because with sega all the newbies that become sony fanboys (not to mention ignorant retailers) shouted loud that the sega machines were weak in comparison to the competition.

but it's funny to me sega rushed the release of the saturn and gave it a difficult architecture, sadly it hurt them badly - Sony has done the same thing with ps3 and it's affecting them, but they have much deeper pockets than sega and can still come out of it alright.

[markatisu]

but it's funny to me sega rushed the release of the saturn and gave it a difficult architecture, sadly it hurt them badly - Sony has done the same thing with ps3 and it's affecting them, but they have much deeper pockets than sega and can still come out of it alright.

I still find it funny that almost 2 generations later people are still having trouble porting the Saturn games to the current hardware (the PS2 Ages releases are not 100% pure Saturn ports) and Dreamcast is not even being mentioned (most PS2 versions of Dreamcast games had some "issues") or discussed as an easy platform.

But you hit the nail on the head, Sega was in financial trouble long before they opted out of the console business.

Sony and MS use their software (MS) and hardware (Sony TV's/Electronics) to subsidize their console business, and Nintendo has turned a profit on virtually every system going back to the NES (even though the Gamecube came in last it made more money then the PS2 and Xbox due to profit margin on the hardware and game sales) so they dont need to subsidize anything. As we all know the Wii was turning a profit on launch day (basically because its got most the of the same hardware they were already making a profit on during the Gamecube release).

Sony has spent a large portion of the PS2 profits to get the PS3 up and running (when the PS2 got in the black financially) and it will be at least another year or two before the system even comes near breaking even (and thats being generous), but with their Sony Electronics they will always be around just as MS will be unless they get bored with consoles because Windows is not going away and neither is MS Office. Thats why the console wars make me laugh, 1st or 3rd neither of these 3 companies is going to just die or lose much this generation, outside of ego.

Getting back to Sega though, just like Atari (Jaguar/Lynx) and NEC (Turbo Grafix/PC Engine) before them did not have anything to help them along if they failed....and so when they did the walls came crashing down.

But yet after two failed consoles we are still anticipating Sega's games even if they have had a dip in quality compared to their past.

[wolf-manj]

Heavenly Sword, it was wayyyyy too short and all downloadable content is said to be directly tied to sales (meaning if it does not sell well enough we wont see anything added to the game).

oh yeah forgot about that one. I thought it looked good but then I heard about its length. Think I'll give it a rent.

I just got my blu-ray movies in the mail today. They didnt have one of the movies that I ordered so they sent me Happy Feet. Wonder if I can return it to some store without a receipt. Thankfully the movie that they didn't have was one I had never seen and didnt really care about. I think it was Babel but not sure. Other than that I got Blazing Saddles which i have never seen, Pearl Harbor, Transporter 2 and Stealth.

[hemanrep]

Happy Feet is a good movie...

[redskyy]

I'm still disappointed about the fall of Sega. The Saturn was one of my favorite consoles, especially with the many great games that was never released over in the US. The Dreamcast had enormous potential, but the debacle with the Sega CD/32-X and killing off the Saturn didn't help matters. The PS2's DVD playback capability seemed to be one of the deciding factors, as well. I even enjoyed such handhelds like the Game Gear and Nomad, although they were hardly portable.

After making so many odd business decisions over the course of their console production, the end game seemed inevitable. If they had the resources to stay in the competition, I think they had a chance to turn things around.

[markatisu]

And the delays hit the PS3 again, not too bad but still a delay nonetheless

The Official Playstation website confirms what the Ubisoft shops were earlier stating - Haze has been delayed in its release on the PS3 until at least March 2008. Early previews of the game picked up on its distinct lack of quality, so it would seem that the lengthy delay (has previously been delayed) will go towards making it living up to the high expectations set.

And MS must be ready to floor us with some kind of announcements at GDC, check out their floor space



For reference Nintendo and Sonys booths are the size of the Dolby booth

[redskyy]

And the MGS4 rumor cycle continues on...

TheGameReviews.com had the opportunity to speak with Konami’s PR about this latest rumor, and unsurprisingly, Konami is baffled by claims that Metal Gear Solid 4 is going multiplatform. In a rush to get the word out, it seems that those who broke the story talked to everyone except Konami, who made this statement "For the record, Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots is a PlayStation 3 exclusive and there are no plans to develop an Xbox 360 version of the game." Nuff said..

[markatisu]

And the MGS4 rumor cycle continues on...

I guess we all just have to wait and see but I would not expect Konami to say that its coming, I mean good god its going be one of the most anticipated PS3 games of 2008 (and right now of the entire platform) so to announce its dual platform would just kill any 360 owners who might be thinking of adding a PS3 to get this game.

I mean Konami PR is not as dumb as Sonys PR

I also played Nights 2 some more with the Gamecube controller and its worlds different , i went from getting C's and D's to A's and B's

I reeeeeeally am liking this game, story blows but controls rock on wavebird!

[wolf-manj]

I just got an email about this http://www.koei.com/katana/. Its called Samurai Warriors: Katana for the Wii. One of the descriptions I read sounds kind of like a rail shooter.

[markatisu]

Anybody who says 3rd parties dont sell on the Wii just isnt trying hard enough or putting out the right games. EA and Activision are proving that there is viability.

Guitar Hero III Wii toppled the 2 Pokemon DS games in online use this past week.

Medal of Honor Heroes 2 surged by almost 6x (it was only getting about 36k in connections) so hopefully that means its sales went good enough for them to build a "real" graphics engine around the solid gameplay and controls.

Nintendo WFC Connections for week ending 12/30

1. [WII] Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock - 1,424,018 connections
2. [NDS] Pokémon Diamond & Pearl - 1,403,367 connections*
3. [NDS] Mario Kart DS - 380,759 connections
4. [NDS] Animal Crossing: Wild World - 339,491 connections
5. [WII] Pokémon Battle Revolution - 245,649 connections
6. [NDS] The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass - 218,447 connections
7. [WII] Mario Strikers Charged - 217,084 connections
8. [WII] Mario & Sonic at the Olympics - 204,054 connections
9. [NDS] Metroid Prime Hunters - 173,548 connections
10. [WII] Medal of Honor Heroes 2 - 156,931 connections

Nintendo's internal testing continues

[WII] Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 1,594 connections
[WII] Mario Kart Wii - 1,251 connections

In PS3 News, IGN is reporting that Little Big Planet is now scheduled for September 2008, that means we should be getting a full dose of info about it at E3 and other conferences leading up to that. I am betting the delay is because of HOME

[PJMania]

for anyone interested, looks like HD-DVD might be in trouble in the format war.

http://dvd.ign.com/articles/843/843709p1.html

[markatisu]

for anyone interested, looks like HD-DVD might be in trouble in the format war.

http://dvd.ign.com/articles/843/843709p1.html

They are not in trouble they are dead, Paramount and Universal will jump sooner or later. Toshiba cancelled their CES event and pretty much conceeded yesterday afternoon.

This should get PS3 some sales though, which is positive for the console business.

[PJMania]

This should get PS3 some sales though, which is positive for the console business.

I was thinking as much. I'd really like to see Sony start to turn it around sometime soon when it comes to sales. I don't really care which console wins the console war...all 3 companies will come out unscathed no matter what, but it's just better for everyone if all 3 consoles do somewhat well. With the talk of MGS4 possibly going multiplatform, the victory of Blu-Ray is definitely good news.

[markatisu]

I was thinking as much. I'd really like to see Sony start to turn it around sometime soon when it comes to sales. I don't really care which console wins the console war...all 3 companies will come out unscathed no matter what, but it's just better for everyone if all 3 consoles do somewhat well. With the talk of MGS4 possibly going multiplatform, the victory of Blu-Ray is definitely good news.

Yeah I agree, I think things will change for the better for the PS3 but unless something really slows the 360 or Wii then Sony will just have to deal with coming in 3rd in the US and 2nd globally because I just dont see the lineup to erase the hole they got in.

Nintendo proved with the N64 and Gamecube that you can come in last place and still be making money hand over first, with Blu-Ray seeming to have "won" the Hi Def war it will help get the PS3 profitable that much faster which is good news based on how much of a loss they posted for 07

[PJMania]

Yeah I agree, I think things will change for the better for the PS3 but unless something really slows the 360 or Wii then Sony will just have to deal with coming in 3rd in the US and 2nd globally because I just dont see the lineup to erase the hole they got in.

Nintendo proved with the N64 and Gamecube that you can come in last place and still be making money hand over first, with Blu-Ray seeming to have "won" the Hi Def war it will help get the PS3 profitable that much faster which is good news based on how much of a loss they posted for 07

Yeah, I agree, which is why I said I don't care who comes in what place. Winning or losing a console war hasn't meant much more than bragging rights since SNES vs. Sega Genesis, and I don't see it meaning anything more anytime soon, unless something major happens in a different area of expertise of Sony and/or Microsoft which would cause a substantial loss of money.

[markatisu]

Yeah, I agree, which is why I said I don't care who comes in what place. Winning or losing a console war hasn't meant much more than bragging rights since SNES vs. Sega Genesis, and I don't see it meaning anything more anytime soon, unless something major happens in a different area of expertise of Sony and/or Microsoft which would cause a substantial loss of money.

You are correct, the entire "war" is about appearance and mindshare, Nintendo and Microsoft benefit most because Nintendo got hit pretty hard with the N64 and Gamecube as far as public perception went. They have pretty much erased that with the DS and Wii, even the arguement that 3rd parties dont sell on Nintendo systems is slowly going away (but has a lot more work to go) with EA, Activision and Capcom reaping benefits.

And MS showed that they have what it takes to make it viable to have 3 console systems co-exist. They sell more games than the PS3 and Wii combined which is one heck of a statement on the customer base they have, and it rings in the ears of developers as software and not hardware is what pays the bills in that industry.

The PS3 is not a failure by any means (though it is tracking behind the Gamecube which is not good since the GC was basically only supported by Nintendo and Sony has far more money and developers invested in its console), its a huge failure compared to the PSX and the PS2. At this point its fighting a ghost of its past, basically going through what the N64 did in trying to be relevant and successful compared to the NES and SNES.

What I am looking for most at least in Wii and PS3 is developers who will actually use their investment and time to play to the strengths of each console. We have not seen that happen as of yet (though Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and Uncharted Drakes Fortune are good starts)

When we start seeing PS3 and Wii developers utilize the platforms for graphics and controls the way say Epic has with Gears of War I think everyone will win this generation.

[PJMania]

You are correct, the entire "war" is about appearance and mindshare, Nintendo and Microsoft benefit most because Nintendo got hit pretty hard with the N64 and Gamecube as far as public perception went. They have pretty much erased that with the DS and Wii, even the arguement that 3rd parties dont sell on Nintendo systems is slowly going away (but has a lot more work to go) with EA, Activision and Capcom reaping benefits.

And MS showed that they have what it takes to make it viable to have 3 console systems co-exist. They sell more games than the PS3 and Wii combined which is one heck of a statement on the customer base they have, and it rings in the ears of developers as software and not hardware is what pays the bills in that industry.

The PS3 is not a failure by any means (though it is tracking behind the Gamecube which is not good since the GC was basically only supported by Nintendo and Sony has far more money and developers invested in its console), its a huge failure compared to the PSX and the PS2. At this point its fighting a ghost of its past, basically going through what the N64 did in trying to be relevant and successful compared to the NES and SNES.

What I am looking for most at least in Wii and PS3 is developers who will actually use their investment and time to play to the strengths of each console. We have not seen that happen as of yet (though Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and Uncharted Drakes Fortune are good starts)

When we start seeing PS3 and Wii developers utilize the platforms for graphics and controls the way say Epic has with Gears of War I think everyone will win this generation.

Most of what is preventing what you hope to see is just lazy developers. You can't read anything without hearing how difficult it to develop for the PS3. If developers stopped wanting push everything out as quickly as possible, and spent some time on developing the games, it wouldn't be difficult to develop for much longer. Same deal with the Wii. For the longest time we were being fed PS2 ports. Finally some good, original games are starting to come out for it, but there's still a lot of crap coming out that is nothing more than a PS2 game with Wii controls. If developers got their heads out of their asses and spent time trying to learn and develop a masterpiece, the PS3 and Wii platforms wouldn't be so "difficult" to program for very much longer. I bet the 360 would get the same complaints from developers if it weren't for the Windows PC already being established as a solid gaming platform, or if the Mac were the dominant platform for personal computer video gaming.

[TheDeviot]

Most of what is preventing what you hope to see is just lazy developers. You can't read anything without hearing how difficult it to develop for the PS3. If developers stopped wanting push everything out as quickly as possible, and spent some time on developing the games, it wouldn't be difficult to develop for much longer. Same deal with the Wii. For the longest time we were being fed PS2 ports. Finally some good, original games are starting to come out for it, but there's still a lot of crap coming out that is nothing more than a PS2 game with Wii controls. If developers got their heads out of their asses and spent time trying to learn and develop a masterpiece, the PS3 and Wii platforms wouldn't be so "difficult" to program for very much longer. I bet the 360 would get the same complaints from developers if it weren't for the Windows PC already being established as a solid gaming platform, or if the Mac were the dominant platform for personal computer video gaming.

Interesting you bring it up, c because one can get superior versions of many of the 360 games on PC

A short list includes, UT3, Gears of War, Lost Planet, Orange Box, Bioshock, Call of Duty 4, Universe At War, Quake IV, Need For Speed (Any), R6 Vegas, etc. etc.

[markatisu]

Interesting you bring it up, c because one can get superior versions of many of the 360 games on PC

One can get superior versions of most games on the PC Look at RE4 PC, there are already enhanced texture packs that add lighting and detail which make RE4 look more like the RE5 trailers and then you can use the Wii bluetooth (Glovepie) to basically add in the RE4 Wii Edition controls meaning you get the greatest version of the game in all forms (controls and graphics).

I agree with what PJ said, I mean we know the Wii is much more powerful then the PS2 and 2x the Gamecube but yet developers can barely manage PSP ports (I mean MOHH2 is basically a PSP game with an upgraded engine and Wii controls), if Wii customers were getting on par Xbox level games I don't think it would be as blatently obvious but developers are just crapping out PS2 and PSP games with motion controls...and then having the nerve to cry like babies that they dont have sales.

[PJMania]

Well it's a given that computer games will be better than their console version. What I was saying though is that out of all 3 consoles, the 360 needs the least amount of new knowledge to develop for do to the platform's similarities to a Windows PC.