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Thread: The Official "Console War" and Video Game Thread

  1. #401
    The Horde Guru of Gaming D-Day V1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Adam's Dad
    This may have been asked already, but does anyone have a full launch title list? Or do you know where I can get one? Thanks.
    I dont know of a full launch title list, but ebgames.com has a lot of stuff listed in their Wii section. Its basically games, accesories, etc. All of the games have shipping dates that vary however. You also might want to check ign.com or gamespot.com
    Thank you Mario, but our Princess is in another castle.

  2. #402
    Movie Machine shigsy2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Adam's Dad
    This may have been asked already, but does anyone have a full launch title list? Or do you know where I can get one? Thanks.
    Howdy

    I don't think one has been officially released. According to Reggie "30 games will be released in the launch window, 15 of those being launch titles". Which of those 30 are the launch games though is unsure.

    Chris M
    I have been honing my movie knowledge while I have been away and watching a lot. Best Picture winners left to watch: NONE. Films left to watch in Empire's 500 greatest films list: ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTEEN

  3. #403
    Heroic Warrior AeroStratos88's Avatar
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    The 360 is the only real immersive gaming experience.



    Ok so this doesn't have anything to do with the 360 yet although they would be the first to jump at it. With the Keyboard/webcam/flight stick in the picture. This is an actual product from Toshiba though. I can't believe someone would think gamers would wear that thing.

  4. #404
    Movie Machine shigsy2003's Avatar
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    Howdy

    My Very Own Wiimote

    With the DS, Nintendo turned its back on our Japanese overlords, opting to release the system first in America. The Wii may be on its way to becoming the next Nintendo system to launch first in America, but at least the Japanese (and Japanese correspondents) can boast one thing: a first shot at owning their very own Wiimote.

    And by that, I mean an actual Wiimote. Not a Wii controller that's being cleverly called "Wiimote." I'm talking an actual television remote control that was designed to look like a Wii controller.

    Platinum members in Nintendo Japan's Club Nintendo rewards program were given two bonus gifts this year: a monthly wall calendar featuring artwork from Nintendo's biggest franchises, and a promise. The promise was that Nintendo would ship out a special Wii-themed bonus once the Wii (then the Revolution) was closer to its release.

    The time has come, and the bonus is a Wiimote that's used not for controlling Wii games, but for controlling a television.



    The Wii Television Remote Control, as the product is officially known (and will likely be listed on Ebay as) looks and feels like a standard Wiimote, aside from a few insignia designed to assist in navigating the controls on your television. Like the real thing, it's small, compact and light -- so small that it makes older controllers look almost scary.

    The Wiimote is smaller than the latest portable game systems, like the PlayStation Portable and the DS Lite. It's even smaller than actual remotes!

    Functionally, the remote is capable of the most basic television operations. Up, Down and A are used to shift channels, with left and right used for volume. Minus button is used to switch between inputs, with plus used for muting. Power turns the television on and off. Press any of these buttons, and the left player lamp lights up.

    The Wiimote can be set up for use with sets from the following television makers: Panasonic, Sony, Toshiba, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Victor, Sanyo, Aiwa, Sharp, NEC, Fujitsu General, Pioneer, Phillips, Samsung, LG and Orion. Setting the remote to work with your particular set takes just four button presses.

    So I inserted the two supplied AA batteries, set the remote to work with my Hitachi LCD, powered on the set, flipped through the channels a few times, adjusted the volume, switched to mute mode, then turned off the television.



    A remote control that looks like a Wii controller is cool. For exactly ten seconds. Now it's going back in the box for safe keeping while I wait for the real thing to arrive (first in America, then in Japan).


    IGN Link

    Pretty cool me thinks

    Here are the comparison pics:

    DS against Wiimote

    Gamecube controller against Wiimote

    Mixed controllers against Wiimote

    Close up Wiimote

    TV controllers against Wiimote

    360 against Wiimote

    Exposed back Wiimote

    Wiimote in hand

    PSP against Wiimote

    Long shot Wiimote

    Wiimote in box

    Wiimote with box

    Close Wiimote 2

    PS2 Pad against Wiimote

    Wiimote in hand 2

    Close back Wiimote

    Sorry long post:

    A Look Into LiveMove

    Within the last few days there's been a ton of talk about the newest development tool to hit the Wii: LiveMove. Developed by technology company Ailive, LiveMove is a program made to help potential Wii developers by enabling the Wii-mote controller to learn and recognize specific motions with ease, making programming for the Wii console a bit more manageable for development teams of all sizes and abilities, rather than requiring gargantuan groups of programmers with a masters in calculus.

    There's been a ton of hype around the product so far, but since 99% of our industry has never had to personally program a Wii game, there's some definite questions being brought up about what this system can really do, how easy it is to work with, and how it truly (and realistically) can be used to make Wii gaming better. Well a few of us here at IGN have had a chance to work with the development side of gaming, and of course we're on a first name basis with the pros responsible for making the Wii-motes work, so what better way to use our dark jedi powers but to get you all some answers, or at the very least, clarify what it is LiveMove is all about.

    The Current Wii-mote:
    There's of course a good deal to talk about, and rather than going over anyone's head with technical mumbo-jumbo only our IGN Gear EIC Gerry Block can understand (props man, props), we'll try to keep the technical assessment of the Wii-mote pretty basic for all to enjoy. The current setup for the Wii-mote is actually pretty simple, though we'll admit that the amount of technology in the remote itself might be a bit baffling to anyone who hasn't been reading up on what exactly it can and can't do.
    With LiveMove, swordplay may never be the same.

    For starters, we have the sensor bar. The Wii sensor bar interacts with the Wii-mote to locate a specific on-screen coordinate, which is determined by the sensor and the Wii-mote in tandem. If, for example, you wanted to point at one specific spot on your television in Red Steel, allowing for a head shot, you'd need to be using the IR sensor bar to do so.

    What LiveMove will help do, however, has nothing to do specifically with the sensor bar, as it works with the motion control itself, making use of tilts and gestures instead. As it stands right now, the Wii-mote can recognize motion that is then turned into a move on-screen. What's interesting, and a bit worrisome as well, is that the Wii-mote positioning ability is based purely on the accelerometers, which don't offer coordinate-based positioning, but only simulate direct gestures by interpreting acceleration points with the remote. In a game like Marvel: Ultimate Alliance, for example, you'd use a sweeping motion either left or right to pull off a specific move in the game. Since everyone "sweeps" at a different speed, or will change the XYZ position of the controller differently, the gesture may not be recognized. As a simple example, lets say Shaq is playing Marvel with son or daughter. Both players have a starting point, but Shaq's arm length will allow for a larger sweep than his child. In addition, the kid may swipe at an angle or at a slower rate than their Dad, making all of the input information amazingly different.

    A game like Marvel: Ultimate Alliance uses five key gestures. This may sound like a small amount to an unsuspecting gamer, but when you factor in the difference in data for dozens (much less the thousands that will be playing the game), you'll find that each gesture requires an insane amount of info to be recognized. From talking with Vicarious at the New York event just a month ago, they stated that there are hundreds of thousands of different gesture data to have the Wii recognize even one single gesture from the game. Simply insane. Factor that out for the five total gestures in the game, or look at Red Steel, which has even more sword movements and context-sensitive gestures, and the amount of work boarders on the masochistic. It's true that the big idea may win out of the big budget for Wii, but saying that the system is far more friendly for smaller development teams may not be entirely true.

    As a final few notes about the Wii-mote data, developers have talked with us on multiple occasions about a few annoying aspects of the current Wii-mote gesture recognition. Since the Wii-mote works off acceleration, programmers have to be well-versed in calculus to program speed and point recognition into an actual in-game move. On top of that, if the player's movement stays at exactly the same meters per second rate, the remote could actually miss the change in direction. Taking Zelda as an example, a player could actually move the Wii-mote left and right to do continuing sword swipes. If, however, the movement is done at precisely the same rate (or based on the programmer's coding, is displayed at the same rate) the Wii-mote accelerometers won't recognize a change in direction at all. Obviously developers that have a strong programming team won't have a problem working around this issue, as their movement code would be optimized to show even the slightest natural speed change in player movement, but it's still an issue that could come up in less optimized code. The list of strange nuances in the Wii-mote goes on and on, but rather than addressing these issues, let's talk about the solution to them.

    LiveMove: The Solution?
    So along comes Ailive with its motion sensing tool, claming to be the end-all be-all of Wii gesture programming. But before you buy into it entirely, you need to know how it works, right? LiveMove is essentially a program that does all the dirty work that Wii programmers have been doing freehand in the initial launch run of games. Using complex formulas, programmers have been creating starting points, ending points, speed, distance, and acceleration (speed change over time) all on their own with only the Wii-mote data to help. With LiveMove, developers can simply set up the software to record motions on the fly. Simply boot up the program, label your move, grab the Wii-mote and go. The software uses the B trigger as the record button. If, for example, you want to do a Z pattern, you'd simply hold the trigger, get in position, hold down the B trigger, do the motion, and name it. From there, the program will attempt to read your future motions. Simple, right?

    Here's the catch. Remember how games like Marvel: Ultimate Alliance needed a huge amount of data to make sure every gamer can get the proper gesture recognition? That's how LiveMove works as well. While the amount of recording doesn't have to go into the hundreds of thousands, the more data you give LiveMove, the better it will work. For less complex global actions such as a large circle or casting motion, it may only take a few actions. For more intricate motions, developers may still spend a good chunk of time laying down the same motions over and over using different players, helping the program narrow down what is and isn't classified as an acceptable gesture. That being said, LiveMove definitely helps take out a ton of the initial grunt work, and developers that we've talked with that are already using the program are finding that it helps get demos up and running amazingly fast, and works as a great starting point for Wii development. More moves. More gestures. More immersion. Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2?

    LiveMove: The Possibilities:
    With a program like LiveMove, anything is possible. Imagine that we had the ability to use this gesture recognition earlier on for the Wii launch games, for example, and we may have seen a game like Red Steel offering hundreds of sword swipes, allowing the game to stay as a gesture-recognition formula, but still giving the feeling of a true one-to-one sword duel. Imagine a game like Marvel: Ultimate Alliance that offers different gestures for every character, each representing the intended mutant in a totally unique way.

    And when it comes to accuracy and user-interaction, LiveMove may be the program that enables true immersion. Image a game that allows total user calibration, asking you to perform moves one initially booting up to ensure that your actions (and only your actions) are used for on-screen actions. There wouldn't be a need to learn what can and can't be done with the controller, rather you could step on the pitchers mound, grab your baseball, and tell the Wii controller how you personally throw a fast-ball, change-up, screwball, slider, and curveball. Imagine a boxing game that allows for character creation, letting you select moves and input them how you'd actually do them. Who cares if your right hook doesn't look like Ali's right hook. The Wii-mote would know and recognize your style, ensuring for accurate motion recognition that otherwise wouldn't be available. Multiple users per system? Just select which profile you use, and rather than saving your control scheme, it would save a log of your gestures instead.

    When we first saw Wii, the possibilities seemed entirely endless. Now that we've had a chance to go hands-on with nearly every launch game over and over again, it is becoming apparent that innovation of this level takes serious time, amazing commitment, and a certain amount of evolution to do it right. Will we see a perfect first-person shooter? Someday, yes. Will we see immersive adventure games that perfectly translate your movement onto the screen? We believe that with enough time you could. LiveMove, while not a miracle tool, is definitely a necessity for any developer, as it helps ensure that gestures are accurate and quick, using less processing power, less initial work for developers, and less development time in general (something that any developer will tell you is as important as the game's budget itself). LiveMove is an amazing tool, though we're sure it's just the beginning for true gesture recognition on the Wii console and beyond, and when gameplay is as important as it is on Wii, LiveMove is a true blessing for developers.

    To get a better look at how LiveMove works, be sure to check a video demo of the program in action at http://ailive.net under the LiveMove section. LiveMove is already available, and can be purchased via Ailive's web site.


    IGN Link

    Chris M
    Last edited by shigsy2003; October 16, 2006 at 04:12pm.
    I have been honing my movie knowledge while I have been away and watching a lot. Best Picture winners left to watch: NONE. Films left to watch in Empire's 500 greatest films list: ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTEEN

  5. #405
    WHAT A GUY
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    man shigsy2003 just post the links... i read that stuff like a week ago.

  6. #406
    Heroic Designer SUPERHEMANMIKE's Avatar
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    I know that the Wii will have a special retro controller available for playing the old school games...

    Does anybody know if the Gamecube controllers (wavebird) will work with the retro games instead?

    Also, is the retro controller wireless? Does it connect to the Wii-mote or the console?
    SUPERHEMANMIKE

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  7. #407
    logo for life MattOnDemand's Avatar
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    i think i read somewhre that the classic controller connects to the wii-mote then it's (technically) wireless.
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  8. #408
    Prince_Radam
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    ^I believe that is the case.

    As far as I know you cannot use a GameCube controller for Virtual Console games

  9. #409
    WHAT A GUY
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    Yes it does connect to the Wii-mote.
    Yes you can use the GC contoller to play VC games.

  10. #410
    Movie Machine shigsy2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHAT A GUY
    man shigsy2003 just post the links... i read that stuff like a week ago.
    Howdy

    Yes you have but that isn't to say everyone did.

    I post both the link and the news as if some people are like they don't want to actually use the link provided. I prefer to read it on here.

    I already apologised for the large post.

    Chris M
    I have been honing my movie knowledge while I have been away and watching a lot. Best Picture winners left to watch: NONE. Films left to watch in Empire's 500 greatest films list: ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTEEN

  11. #411
    Heroic Designer SUPERHEMANMIKE's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info on the controller.

    I was hoping I wouldn't have to shell out $20 for a controller to play the virtual console stuff.

    ....although that controller does look sweet...
    SUPERHEMANMIKE

    "It tasted good..." - Gwildor

  12. #412
    Fudge Supreme Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHAT A GUY
    Yes it does connect to the Wii-mote.
    Yes you can use the GC contoller to play VC games.
    Can you use the new Virtual Console Controller to play GC games? (not that I am planning on doing this, but I am just wondering).
    ____________________________________________

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  13. #413
    The Master of Insanity CJ Clifford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia
    Can you use the new Virtual Console Controller to play GC games?
    I really hope so.

  14. #414
    Masta of da Fryin' Pan PanMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHAT A GUY
    Yes you can use the GC contoller to play VC games.
    Where did you get this info from?

    I hope it's true but I don't think it was confirmed anywhere
    My name is Pan . . . and I am the Man.

  15. #415
    WHAT A GUY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia
    Can you use the new Virtual Console Controller to play GC games? (not that I am planning on doing this, but I am just wondering).
    I dont know about this, but I can see it happening, because i cant see them to continue producing GC controllers.

    Also I cant find where I read that GC controllers can be used to play VC games... but hopefully it will happen.

  16. #416
    Heroic Warrior AeroStratos88's Avatar
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    Nintendo Wii Wins and Losses

    So IGN ran an article and heres the gist.

    Win: The Media's Reaction to Wi

    Loss: Inability to Demonstrate Vastly Superior FPS Controls
    When Nintendo first unveiled the Wii remote, every gamer who had ever played a first-person shooter before jumped triumphantly into the air. The promise of the pointer is vast where FPSs are concerned, as it should be possible for players to simply point and shoot in a manner not unlike a mouse and keyboard configuration. However, although several big Wii games fall into the first-person arena, none of them have nailed the control scheme. Call of Duty 3, Far Cry, Red Steel and Metroid Prime 3 all forego a fixed reticule setup in favor of a small bounding box. When gamers aim and their reticule leaves the invisible box, the screen begins to turn. This control method is hardly ideal for fast-paced first-person shooters and therefore the promise the Wii remote opens up for the genre remains largely untapped.

    Win: Wii Makes Toys "R" Us Hot List

    Loss: Nintendo's Inability to Get Press Early Wii Hardware; Magazines Miss Deadlines
    We're about a month away from launch, we've got 30 games to review, and we're still twiddling our thumbs as we wait for Nintendo give us a means to play its software. We're frustrated. So imagine how the heads of outlets that require long lead times to produce - your various magazines, in other words - feel. For many of these publications, it's too late. There's no way for them to accurately include Wii reviews in their holiday issues. That boat has sailed. And it's becoming increasingly more difficult for online outlets to get the job done right, too.

    Win: 1 Million Wii Systems at Launch; 4 Million through December

    Loss: Decidedly Un-Mainstream $250 Price Tag and Expensive Controllers
    For a console that was promised as "small, quiet and affordable," Wii will only debut at $50 less than the basic Xbox 360. But even that price point is deceptive, especially since the system ships with the multiplayer-centric Wii sports, but includes only one Wii remote and nunchuk. Buyers who want to enjoy Wii Sports Tennis for four will need to spend an extra $39.99 per Wii remote. Three Wii-motes will add another $120 to the $250 price tag for a grand total of $370.

    Win: Wii Sports in the Bundle

    Loss: One Month Out: Where the Eff is the Advertising?
    Nobody is likely to dispute that Nintendo is onto something with its new generation console. But just because the hardcore crowd knows this to be true doesn't mean the rest of the world knows it, too. The Big N seems content to avoid pre-release hype and let word of mouth sell Wii units. When I drove into work today, I saw three billboards for Sony's PlayStation 3.

    Win: Wii Channels Concept and Interface

    Loss: Keeping Zelda a Secret
    For the first time in Nintendo history, its new console will launch with an epic Zelda game. Everybody from Nintendo's high-ranking executives to its dedicated play testers has, in fact, described Twilight Princess as the greatest Zelda game ever made. But is it? I couldn't tell you. I've played what equates to two levels, and only portions of those. For a game that is supposedly more epic than any other Zelda offering before, we sure haven't seen much. I think this is a huge missed opportunity. Fact is, whether the Big N wants to admit it or not, the majority of people buying a Wii this holiday will be doing so for Zelda and not Wii Sports. And yet right now most of us are going on faith.

    Win: The Launch Lineup

    Loss: One Final Gripe, But Why Wasn't this Included?
    Nintendo, we can forgive your decision to forego participating in the "high-definition era," which will at least this generation belong to Microsoft and Sony. But seriously, PlayStation 2 had an audio optical out six years ago. Six long years ago! Why doesn't Wii at least include this hardware upgrade? It's not as if you can play the "nobody wants it or needs it yet" card. Everybody is already using it.

    http://wii.ign.com/articles/739/739662p2.html

  17. #417
    Fudge Supreme Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeroStratos88
    Loss: Inability to Demonstrate Vastly Superior FPS Controls
    When Nintendo first unveiled the Wii remote, every gamer who had ever played a first-person shooter before jumped triumphantly into the air. The promise of the pointer is vast where FPSs are concerned, as it should be possible for players to simply point and shoot in a manner not unlike a mouse and keyboard configuration. However, although several big Wii games fall into the first-person arena, none of them have nailed the control scheme. Call of Duty 3, Far Cry, Red Steel and Metroid Prime 3 all forego a fixed reticule setup in favor of a small bounding box. When gamers aim and their reticule leaves the invisible box, the screen begins to turn. This control method is hardly ideal for fast-paced first-person shooters and therefore the promise the Wii remote opens up for the genre remains largely untapped.
    Well, I can see where that would be a problem. Essentially, on most FPS games, you use the two analog sticks, one for looking around, and the other for aiming. The problem is that moving the control around in your hand is more or less the equivelant of one analog stick. So, the only way around this is to have the games be controlled as described above, or to use the Nun-chuck stick to take over one of the two features that are typically used with one of the two analog sticks in most FPS games.

    Loss: Nintendo's Inability to Get Press Early Wii Hardware; Magazines Miss Deadlines
    We're about a month away from launch, we've got 30 games to review, and we're still twiddling our thumbs as we wait for Nintendo give us a means to play its software. We're frustrated. So imagine how the heads of outlets that require long lead times to produce - your various magazines, in other words - feel. For many of these publications, it's too late. There's no way for them to accurately include Wii reviews in their holiday issues. That boat has sailed. And it's becoming increasingly more difficult for online outlets to get the job done right, too.
    Well, that does suck, but at this point it means very little, IMO. The people who are going to get the system at launch more than likely have their minds already made up about it at this point, including what games they want.

    While the magazine coverage would help, I don't think it's going to impact them significantly.


    Loss: Decidedly Un-Mainstream $250 Price Tag and Expensive Controllers
    For a console that was promised as "small, quiet and affordable," Wii will only debut at $50 less than the basic Xbox 360. But even that price point is deceptive, especially since the system ships with the multiplayer-centric Wii sports, but includes only one Wii remote and nunchuk. Buyers who want to enjoy Wii Sports Tennis for four will need to spend an extra $39.99 per Wii remote. Three Wii-motes will add another $120 to the $250 price tag for a grand total of $370.
    And that's all just on how they choose to spin it.

    I mean, let's face it, they are comparing buying the Nintendo Wii, which includes a game (maybe not the best game ever, but a game none the less) & some internal memory (not a lot, but enough to make it unecessary to buy additonal memory units for a while) and 3 additional controllers to buying the core version of Xbox 360, which comes with no hard drive, no memory of any kind, and no game.

    Right off the bat, if you buy the core 360, you will likely want to buy at least one game. Even buying an older, lower priced game for it will cost somewhere around another $20 to $30 (and most of the games in that price range aren't exactly the best for the system). Then you still need to be able to save your progress in the game, which means buying either a memory card for $40, or the hard drive for $100 (and if you are going with the latter, then you may as well just pick up the premium 360).

    So, a core 360, memory card and $20 game will (ironically) cost you $360, which is over $100 more than the price of the Wii system which already comes with something similar to those extra purchases. Then if you want to add controllers on top of that (since in the quoted scenario, they are adding 3 Wii-motes on top of the one that comes with the system), the wired controllers are $40 each. And I think the 360 only has like 3 USB ports, so you would be forced to get at least 1 wireless controller. And let's face, wireless is the way to go, so you'd be looking at $50 per controller if you go that route (plus, if you bought the core system, then it comes with a wired controller, so do you keep the one wired and buy 3 extra wireless, or buy 4 wireless and just put the one the system came with to the side?) . Then you could stick with just using batteries for them, or get the battery packs. Well, the packs alone are like $11 or $12 each. But then you need to get at least some kind of charger thing. So, you could either go with the wire attachement with battery for $20, or that stand that plugs into the wall with battery for $30, plus whatever additional batteries you need.

    Granted, Nintendo or any 3rd party company has not made the option of a battery pak (at least not yet), and that will cost some extra cash as well. But, the point is that this is really a weak comparison because they are comparing a system that comes with nothing to a system that at least gives you a game to play and some memory to work with.

    At any rate, let's face it... I doubt that most people are going to buy more than one extra controller on day one, giving them a total of two. The exceptions might be a household with a larger family in which a lot of people will be using the system, or someone who has a lot of friends who will come over a lot and want to play. And for the latter scenario, if these friends are really into Wii they might get one, themselves... in which case, if they go to a friend's house to play, they could just bring one of their controllers. So, really, I don't see most people buying more than 1 extra controller, regardless of which system they are getting.

    I know $250 may not be as optimal as $200, but it's not like the difference is extremely astronomical. If people want the Wii, a difference of $50 isn't going to bother them much. Esspecially when the competitions systems are pretty much going to cost you much more to get started than the Wii will (I mean, let's face it, the core 360 is pretty useless... you are just better off getting the premium one).


    Loss: One Month Out: Where the Eff is the Advertising?
    Nobody is likely to dispute that Nintendo is onto something with its new generation console. But just because the hardcore crowd knows this to be true doesn't mean the rest of the world knows it, too. The Big N seems content to avoid pre-release hype and let word of mouth sell Wii units. When I drove into work today, I saw three billboards for Sony's PlayStation 3.
    Yeah, advertising would certainly help. But, again, there's enough buzz going around that the advertising coming up late isn't going to impact it much. I predict we will probably start seeing commericals and things of that nature closer to the time of release.

    Again, this is no biggie.

    Loss: Keeping Zelda a Secret
    For the first time in Nintendo history, its new console will launch with an epic Zelda game. Everybody from Nintendo's high-ranking executives to its dedicated play testers has, in fact, described Twilight Princess as the greatest Zelda game ever made. But is it? I couldn't tell you. I've played what equates to two levels, and only portions of those. For a game that is supposedly more epic than any other Zelda offering before, we sure haven't seen much. I think this is a huge missed opportunity. Fact is, whether the Big N wants to admit it or not, the majority of people buying a Wii this holiday will be doing so for Zelda and not Wii Sports. And yet right now most of us are going on faith.
    I think that last sentence says it all. Most of us are going on faith. And you know, even if all of the magazines were to have played the new Zelda and reviewed it, regardless of what those reviews turned out to be (even if most of them said it was crap), the game would still sell like gang-busters because of fans and people going on 'faith'. I mean, it's Zelda, it's going to sell. At best any negative reviews of the game will have a very, very, very mild impact on sales. It's just the nature of the situation.

    It would be one thing if it was a more unkown game or a completely new franchise, but it's Zelda.

    Would it be nice to have some reviews? Sure. But, it's still not that big of a deal.

    Loss: One Final Gripe, But Why Wasn't this Included?
    Nintendo, we can forgive your decision to forego participating in the "high-definition era," which will at least this generation belong to Microsoft and Sony. But seriously, PlayStation 2 had an audio optical out six years ago. Six long years ago! Why doesn't Wii at least include this hardware upgrade? It's not as if you can play the "nobody wants it or needs it yet" card. Everybody is already using it.
    Ok. I'll be honest... this one went over my head a little bit. I am something of a techno geek, but some of the stuff that has arrisen in recent years I haven't quite kept up with.

    I guess the nobody wants it or needs it defense could work in this case, as I would be one of those people since I'm pretty oblivious to this.

    I take it this is something completely separate from the standard AV cables or high definition cables?



    Well, at any rate, aside from that last quote (which I don't know enough about to really make a fair judgement on), of all these issues, the only one that seems at all like a real issue to me is the first one mentioned about FPS games. And I've already pointed out the problem and some possible solutions. If there is another possible solution, that's great. But if not, well, then there's only so much that can be done.
    Last edited by Dynamo of Eternia; October 18, 2006 at 12:12pm.
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  18. #418
    YES! YES! YES! Prince Adam's Dad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dymano of Eternia
    All that stuff stated above
    I couldn't have said it better myself, Dynamo.

    I can't wait to wrap my hands around that shiny new Wii. Neither can my wife, for that matter. She is dying to whip that Wii out of the packaging and just go at it. We are planning on spending several hours on the launch day playing with the Wii together. I just hope our wrists don't get too tired. I read that Nintendo says that you shouldn't play with the Wii for more than 2-3 hours at a time. And we're sure to exceed that by quite a bit.

    [/naughty Wii innuendo]

    Sorry. I've controlled myself a lot longer than I thought I would be able to. It's out of my system now.
    Sadly, you can't divorce emotion from a toyline built on nostalgia.


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  19. #419
    logo for life MattOnDemand's Avatar
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    lol Prince Adam's Dad, that was golden.
    MattOnDemand.com
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  20. #420
    The Master of Insanity CJ Clifford's Avatar
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    First, AeroStratos88, I'd like to say how interesting I find it that you edited out all the "win" text from your post on the article, but left in all the loss text. I know you've got some beef with the Wii, but damn man. You should have just posted the whole article or posted just the link to the article.

    Second, I give kudos to IGN with all of their "win" comments. But a surprising majority of their "loss" comments stood on very thin ice.

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroStratos88
    Loss: Nintendo's Inability to Get Press Early Wii Hardware; Magazines Miss Deadlines
    Who reads magazines nowadays anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroStratos88
    Loss: Decidedly Un-Mainstream $250 Price Tag and Expensive Controllers
    Silly IGN. That whole argument was pretty stupid if you ask me. I can't say it any better than DoE did earlier. Comparing the Wii to the 360 core unit was pretty lame. And how are the Wii controllers too expensive? Aren't the 360 wireless controllers the same exact price? Lame!

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroStratos88
    Loss: One Month Out: Where the Eff is the Advertising?
    Billboards Television advertising is where it's at. And neither Sony nor Nintnedo, as far as I know, have done any TV ads for their new systems. Lame again IGN!

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroStratos88
    Loss: Keeping Zelda a Secret
    Name one Zelda game Nintendo has ever managed to screw up. I can't. Can you?

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroStratos88
    Loss: One Final Gripe, But Why Wasn't this Included?
    Wow, just wow. IGN is really reaching for reasons to rag on the Wii with this one. I have never used the optical audio feature on any of the electronics I own. I know it exists, but I've never bothered. And I'm sure most people haven' either.
    Last edited by CJ Clifford; October 18, 2006 at 01:03pm.

  21. #421
    Fudge Supreme Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjclifford
    Who reads magazines nowadays anyway
    Well, I'm sure plenty of people still read them, but I think the fact that they have to have the info to print so far in advance shows just how out of date magazines are. Let's face it, the internet is where it's at. You can get a lot of the same info you would from a magazine, only a lot faster and often for free.

    I may pick up a gaming magazine every now and then if there's something in it that I really want to read and keep.

    Though, I am kind of lucky in the sense that my fiance's uncle is really into gaming and subscribes to a lot of gaming magazines. And when he's done with them, he often sends them my way to read. So, it kind of works out well in that sense.

    But none the less, I tend to rely on the internet more these days than magazines when I am really looking for info.

    So, even if Nintendo gets the equipment out to the press late, there will still be plenty of time to write something up online.


    I think next IGN is going to complain about how Nintendo hasn't been taking advantage of carving information into stone tablets for advertising and informational purposes about their system.
    Last edited by Dynamo of Eternia; October 18, 2006 at 01:27pm.
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  22. #422
    He-Man's PR: No Comment hemanrep's Avatar
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    The loss headlines could also reflect the PS3 as well. Both consoles are in the same boat, so the Wii isn't alone. Don't worry too much -- it will rule.

  23. #423
    Heroic Designer SUPERHEMANMIKE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjclifford
    First, AeroStratos88, I'd like to say how interesting I find it that you edited out all the "win" text from your post on the article, but left in all the loss text. I know you've got some beef with the Wii, but damn man. You should have just posted the whole article or posted just the link to the article.
    Yeah.
    Here is the same article with a Wii-Positive spin:

    Win: The Media's Reaction to Wii
    No doubt about it, Nintendo has the media on its side with Wii. Mainstream and specialist press alike have written an overwhelming amount of positive articles about the new console, which can only bode well for its still-in-the-making image. In a recent IGN editor roundtable, nearly every writer on the panel, which consisted of PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 staff, too, agreed that Wii was on track to have an amazing holiday. Some even pegged it as the big winner of the year. Meanwhile, pubs from CNN to USA Today have listed the console as a hot item for the holiday. Many of these same outlets have downplayed the arrival of PlayStation 3 and instead praised Wii. Nintendo gambled big with its new machine, as it is unable to output the pretty high-definition visuals of competitors. But so far, media of all kinds have zeroed in on and trumpeted the benefits of the machine's new controller. This is free publicity of the best kind for Nintendo and combined all this support is sure to have a bearing on sales.

    Loss: Inability to Demonstrate Vastly Superior FPS Controls

    Win: Wii Makes Toys "R" Us Hot List
    Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 didn't. This is an easy one to shrug off, but the simple truth is that a retailer like Toys "R" Us has been a good predictor of big-selling items, such as Elmo, for example. Wii is the first videogame console in history to appear on the company's holiday hot list. Why didn't PS3 make it? Maybe because it's too expensive. Maybe because it's an extension of an existing hardware philosophy. But the official line from Toys "R" Us is that Sony's new system is "really geared to a savvy gaming enthusiast," while "the Wii system appeals to young kids as well as adults." Whatever the reasoning, uninformed buyers oftentimes look to Toys "R" Us to help them make their holiday shopping easier and the fact that Wii will be spotlighted at the nationwide retail outlet is a major coup for Nintendo. This can only have a positive effect on sales of the system.

    Loss: Nintendo's Inability to Get Press Early Wii Hardware; Magazines Miss Deadlines


    Win: 1 Million Wii Systems at Launch; 4 Million through December
    The Big N knows full well that its new hardware is going to be a hot holiday item and it has every intention of capitalizing on the fact. Microsoft debuted Xbox 360 with a miniscule amount of systems. Sony is set to do the same with PlayStation 3. But Wii will kickoff in America on November 19 backed by a whopping one million units and a steady flow of more shipments. By the end of the year, approximately four million Wiis will be available around the globe and the chances are extremely strong that they'll all go sold. Nintendo has delivered a lowball estimate of six million Wiis available by March 2007, but insider reports suggest that as many as 12 million pieces of hardware could be available by that time period. If all goes as planned, in less than six months the Wii console could have penetrated a good chunk of the videogame market to become a major competitor.

    Loss: Decidedly Un-Mainstream $250 Price Tag and Expensive Controllers


    Win: Wii Sports in the Bundle
    Those pesky (but awesome) Wii remotes will set you back a pretty penny, but at least Nintendo will ship Wii with a game included. Actually, depending upon how you look at it, Wii Sports could be thought of as five separate titles. Of course, we're talking about Wii Sports Bowling, Baseball, Golf, Boxing, and Tennis - all very different from each other in the way that they are played. This is a very important pack-in not only because it adds value to the bundle, but also because these games effectively introduce new Wii buyers to the system's fundamentally different controller. Without them, newcomers could really run into some problems, especially since Nintendo is hoping to tap into the elusive non-gamer crowd. Imagine, if you will, that grandpa's first experience with Wii is the complex Twilight Princess or maybe even Metroid Prime 3. We'd be willing to wager that he wouldn't be coming back for more very often. Wii Sports immediately showcases the benefits of the new system and simultaneously encourages purchasers to get their multiplayer game on.

    Loss: One Month Out: Where the Eff is the Advertising?

    Win: Wii Channels Concept and Interface
    I'm going to be completely honest and admit that I really wasn't expecting much from Wii's user interface. GameCube had a simple and stylish enough setup, but it was also very basic, and Nintendo has stressed repeatedly that its new system would be focused on games. For these reasons and more I just didn't think the company would try for something to rival Microsoft's blade system for Xbox 360. So when Nintendo finally unveiled Wii Channels, I was floored. Not only is the interface a gorgeous, sleek white to match the console, but the concept goes above and beyond what I was expecting. Having glimpsed some of the Wii Channels and played with a few more, I can tell you that I like it better than anything else out there - yeah, even more than 360's blade and definitely more than PS3's uninspired PSP clone of a menu interface. In my mind, Wii Channels successfully blends functionality and design. You can get the morning news and weather as soon as you turn on your console and then you simply point and click to go shopping, to play classic games, to modify your Mii personas, or to jump into a GameCube or Wii game. It's all immediately accessible and laid out in an intuitive, pleasing manner. Never in the history of a Nintendo console has its interface been a selling point, but I'm nearly as excited to explore Wii Channels as I am to play some of the Wii launch titles.

    Loss: Keeping Zelda a Secret

    Win: The Launch Lineup
    In a huge win for Nintendo and Wii, the system will debut on November 19 with more than 20 games and will add another 10 to that roster before the end of the holiday season. Sure, some of these are throwaway ports, but there are also quite a few gems in the bunch, some of which are completely exclusive to Wii. Of course, Nintendo will have Zelda, Wii Sports and the surprisingly addictive racer Excite Truck. But Ubisoft will have some hits of its own, including the hotly anticipated first-person shooter Red Steel and the mini-game-fest Rayman Raving Rabbids, both of which are very ambitious and take full advantage of Wii's remote. EA will have a very well made rendition of Madden NFL 07 designed to work intuitively with the Wii remote. Atlus will have an original version of Trauma Center - again designed for Nintendo's controller. And SEGA will have Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz, which is - you guessed it - created exclusively for Wii. In addition, companies like Activision will have solid ports of titles like Marvel: Ultimate Alliance and Call of Duty 3. Nothing to scoff at.
    Finally, there will be approximately 30 Virtual Console titles ready for download before the end of the year, and another 10 coming every month afterward. With such titles as Sonic the Hedgehog, Super Mario Bros., Bonk's Adventure and Toe Jam & Earl all coming in the very beginning, we certainly can't complain. And if Nintendo really wants to bridge the gap between old and new, it will release titles like Excitebike and Excitebike 64 to coincide with launch titles like Excite Truck. Nintendo's back catalog is bigger and more acclaimed than any other and it continues to be a major draw.

    Loss: One Final Gripe, But Why Wasn't this Included?

    SOURCE ARTICLE: http://wii.ign.com/articles/739/739662p1.html
    SUPERHEMANMIKE

    "It tasted good..." - Gwildor

  24. #424
    Heroic Warrior AeroStratos88's Avatar
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    OK first off it's a 2 page article that's why I didn't paste the whole thing. And apparently long articles or bits of information aren't welcome on here since people jumped all down shigsy2003 throat for posting stuff that was positive.

    I don't hate the Wii. Get over it already. I do find it intresting that they A) aren't advertising and B) haven't put the hardware in the hands of people that they normally do. Any one familar with IGN knows Nintendo sent them DS Lites when they launched in Japan to review and preview. It's strange for these people who have a PS3 in office not to have a Wii. When Nintendos suppousedly has laid all it's cards out already. 30 titles to review and no way to review em that's just sad.

    Twilight Princess is a gamecube game always was they are just releasing it on Wii. As far as that goes MANY people will say Zelda II and Majoras masks are the blemishes on the series.

    Maybe they haven't gotten the start up disk to work yet.



    And here so you can't say you haven't seen it.

    Last edited by AeroStratos88; October 19, 2006 at 04:35am.

  25. #425
    YES! YES! YES! Prince Adam's Dad's Avatar
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    Wow. That was a really pointless commercial. Artistic license be damned. SHOW THE SYSTEM!
    Sadly, you can't divorce emotion from a toyline built on nostalgia.


    Got Man-E-Faces, give 'em Whiplash when I Battle-Cats

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