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Thread: The Official "Console War" and Video Game Thread

  1. #1251
    Drinking Innocence TheDeviot's Avatar
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    Maybe we'll see some Valve games on the virtual console?
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  2. #1252
    Supreme Fudge Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Matt View Post
    http://nintendo-revolution.blogspot.com/

    Gabe Newell, founder and president of Valve, has called the PlayStation3 a ītotal disasterī and urged Sony to can the entire project.

    Newell spoke his mind in an interview with Game Informer (quote transcribed by Gek54) and went on to say that Wii will probably overtake the Xbox360 this year.

    Well, it may be a little premature to call it a TOTAL disaster, but yeah, it is far from a runaway hit.


    The system is just so overpriced and so full of stuff that most people don't really want/need at this point, that it doesn't matter if it "only" costs $600 and the tech inside of it is technically worth over $1,000 or some crap, people just don't want to pay $600 to start with.


    I honestly wonder how things will pan out for Sony in the long run.

    I mean, the system is pretty easy to come by, and they were SHORT on how many systems were initially coming out. So, that doesn't bode well for them.



    And the thing is that most of the heavy hitting exclusive titles from PS2 were still made by 3rd party companies. Titles like the Final Fantasy games and Metal Gear, etc.

    Now, with PS2 being number 1 by a HUGE margin, it wasn't a big deal for these games to be PS2 exclusive. There was more than enough of an audience there to make sure the games would profit without going multi-platform.

    But, in this day and age, even an average game with an average amount of time, energy, and money needs to sell so many copies to gain a profit and be considered a hit. And with games like the Final Fantasies, Metal Gears, etc, usually being of higher quality and greater depth, thus requiring more time, money, energy, and resources to go into them, they need even more sales than the average game to be a success.

    And with Sony's PS3 penetrating the market at a much slower rate than I'm sure they anticipated, this could result in not enough systems being out there (and therefore, enough people who would buy them... keeping in mind that even for the MOST popular title, not every owner of the system is going to go out and buy it) and therefore not enough potential sales for the game to make a profit while remaining exclusive.

    Thus, the result will be the games either becoming exclusive to another system or just going multi-platform in general.

    And if this happens with most of Sony's heavy hitting titles, then that leaves even less of a reason for people for people to even get PS3. Thus, allowing the sales to dwindle even further. It could be a vicious cycle of doom.


    In that scenario, the only real way for Sony to pull itself out of this rut would be to create some really good, heavy-hitting first party exclusive titles. But, even IronAvatar, one of the strongest supporters of Sony amongst those who frequently post in this thread, has made comments on how their first part material isn't usually very good.

    So, that doesn't leave Sony with much of a leg to stand on.



    Now, it is possible that things could turn around for them. But I think it will require quite the miracle for that to happen.


    At any rate, I felt and often stated long before the systems launched that the PS3 would most likely prove to be lackluster, and sure enough, that's pretty much what it has been.
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  3. #1253
    He-Man's PR: No Comment hemanrep's Avatar
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    Holy cow, I just brought my 360 back from the dead using the now legendary "towel trick!!!" I cannot believe this worked...I have no clue how long it will work for, but I hope it works until they drop the price or release the rumored 360 with an HDMI connection.

    I'm still stunned. Just seeing the dashboard is miracle...wow.

  4. #1254
    Tri-Solar Lord Oceanwalker's Avatar
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    I don't know why people are jumping the gun about this. PS3 has been available for 2 months (as of 1/17/07) and we all know the initial shortage started ebay madness. Since then, people have bought systems as they have been delivered.

    Let's be real here tho'. Wii is $250. PS3 and Xbox at minimum is twice that. Hardcore gamers will flock to the PS3 and Xbox 360s (which has been out for a year and thus have larger market penetration).

    By next Xmas, there will be enough PS3's on the market that the system will be more than viable.

    One thing we are forgetting is that because the PS2 (THE hottest selling gift for Xmas '06) is established and still breathing, Sony really isn't in dire straits to make sure the PS3 sells hot right now. Would it be nice? Hell yes! But is it essential? At this moment, no. Will it be a little uncomfortable if by January '08, sales have not picked up substantially? Even more so.

    People are all about instant gratification and as such, there's this uneasy shifting in the chair if something isn't a runaway blockbuster hit. PS3s became readily available after the New Year and people are broke.

    As the year goes on and more titles are released, PS3 sales will mount.

  5. #1255
    Hakujin discosupafly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeologyMule View Post
    I agree that the PS3 is probably a disaster. There have been 3 sitting on my Wal-mart shelf for over a week. I haven't seen a Wii on a shelf yet. However, as for the Wii taking over the 360, that's tough to say. I enjoy playing my Wii, but I still enjoy playing my 360 much more. It's just a good mix of graphics, gameplay, online play, and multimedia at a fair price.
    The fan boys out there would disagree with you - and quite frankly who wouldn't wanna suspend disbelief in order to justify their near $1000 purchase for system, games, cables etc etc..

    I, on the other hand, completely agree with G.M. The thing's been a bit of a train wreck from the word go what with faulty systems occurring much more often than any other I care to remember. The indefinable, general "feel" in the gaming community here (Japan) is not for support of the PS3 either - although this will most likely change somewhat once the next Final Fantasy gets released.

    Wii rules supreme here, and I too have yet to ever see a console for sale on the shelves. The PS3 however has been readily available since after Christmas at almost all the stores I frequent. Here's a shot I took of two 20GB models and a 60GB one gathering dust..

    Interestingly the Japanese media seems to be choosing the 360 as second choice. In a highly xenophobic market where the foreign product is always ostracised, this speaks volumes about the confidence held in Sony of late. Wherein the Wii seems to be targeting a highly diverse audience, the 360 is establishing itself well in the "otaku" market - that is, the nerd/hardcore gamer segment. And good for it! Although I have none of the 7th gen consoles, I'm sorely tempted to get the Xbox because of its genuine efforts to establish itself in the Asian market once and for all.

  6. #1256
    Heroic Warrior IronAvatar's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Dynamo of Eternia;1728617]
    In that scenario, the only real way for Sony to pull itself out of this rut would be to create some really good, heavy-hitting first party exclusive titles. But, even IronAvatar, one of the strongest supporters of Sony amongst those who frequently post in this thread, has made comments on how their first part material isn't usually very good.

    So, that doesn't leave Sony with much of a leg to stand on.
    [QUOTE]

    The problem with having a market pushed forward by first-party titles, is that you immediatly have a conflict of interests with other developers. And I know from experience, you can't rely on on a platform holder to treat you fairly when they want to be top dog during the busiest sales time.


    It may be because I am a console programmer (although now working on small pc games for the moment), but Gabe Newell's statement can be translated as this; "Well we are ****ing useless and didn't understand this console thing at all. Did you guys know that the processing power stays the same over the entire 5 year life of the console? How the hell do we develop a game in that time?"

    Oh well...the European launch is (hopefully) coming up. Maybe my fiancee will let me buy one on launch day....
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  7. #1257
    Tri-Solar Lord Oceanwalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discosupafly View Post
    The fan boys out there would disagree with you - and quite frankly who wouldn't wanna suspend disbelief in order to justify their near $1000 purchase for system, games, cables etc etc..

    I, on the other hand, completely agree with G.M. The thing's been a bit of a train wreck from the word go what with faulty systems occurring much more often than any other I care to remember. The indefinable, general "feel" in the gaming community here (Japan) is not for support of the PS3 either - although this will most likely change somewhat once the next Final Fantasy gets released.

    Wii rules supreme here, and I too have yet to ever see a console for sale on the shelves. The PS3 however has been readily available since after Christmas at almost all the stores I frequent. Here's a shot I took of two 20GB models and a 60GB one gathering dust..

    Interestingly the Japanese media seems to be choosing the 360 as second choice. In a highly xenophobic market where the foreign product is always ostracised, this speaks volumes about the confidence held in Sony of late. Wherein the Wii seems to be targeting a highly diverse audience, the 360 is establishing itself well in the "otaku" market - that is, the nerd/hardcore gamer segment. And good for it! Although I have none of the 7th gen consoles, I'm sorely tempted to get the Xbox because of its genuine efforts to establish itself in the Asian market once and for all.
    Wow, 3 whole systems on the shelf...

  8. #1258
    Hakujin discosupafly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oceanwalker View Post
    Wow, 3 whole systems on the shelf...
    At one store, yes. Add that to the two at another store nearby - and three in the area I live. Then also consider that I have yet to see a single Wii console on shelf ready to buy. ANYWHERE.

    Of course it's ultimately just 3 measily consoles as you say - but perhaps it's a sign of things to come. We'll just have to see how things turn out.

  9. #1259
    Tri-Solar Lord Oceanwalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discosupafly View Post
    At one store, yes. Add that to the two at another store nearby - and three in the area I live. Then also consider that I have yet to see a single Wii console on shelf ready to buy. ANYWHERE.

    Of course it's ultimately just 3 measily consoles as you say - but perhaps it's a sign of things to come. We'll just have to see how things turn out.
    Well, look the Wii is cheaper and even I am looking for one for my 7-year old nephew. I know it is hard to get. The PS3 and the Xbox aren't for everyone (especially kids - geared for more adults). It makes sense that the affordable system is more scarce and Nintendo did have a stronger game line-up than Sony.

    In fact, it is telling that the most awaited game for a Sony system is God of War 2 (PS2). Right now, the PS3 is out there and if you want one, go buy it but the PS2 is outselling all 3 newer systems at this point.

    I think in the end, the fact that the PS3 can play the PS2 games (already invested) will make people pick it up in the future (provided that a stronger game line-up appears by the end of of 07).

  10. #1260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oceanwalker View Post
    People are all about instant gratification and as such, there's this uneasy shifting in the chair if something isn't a runaway blockbuster hit. PS3s became readily available after the New Year and people are broke.

    As the year goes on and more titles are released, PS3 sales will mount.
    the thing is companies are about instant gratification too many times. esp in the entertanment industry. the HD war between blu-ray and hd-dvd is a pretty big battle for sony to fight they do NOT want another Betamax on their hands but so far it's leading that way and the extra cost of PS3 was to help them win the war if PS3 doesn't get the penetration they wanted and predicted then neither does blu-ray. Hd-Dvd becoming the accepted standard is not what sony wants. so to have a slow seller with this very expensive system (expensive for them to produce) does not make things comfy for them. the ps2 selling well gives them a bit of a cushion, but the damn thing is ten years old, they don't make their money back on ps2s that they invested in the blu-ray/ps3 market. the ps3 will sell sparodically, but who is to say it will be a success. right now all signs point to it failing. game developers are changing exclusives to multiplatforms and a lot more negative buzz has been coming out since the ps3 release. when the general public hears about these things it doesn't bode well for the system. will it be a doomsday - maybe not but it isn't great for the company.

  11. #1261
    Supreme Fudge Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hemanrep View Post
    Holy cow, I just brought my 360 back from the dead using the now legendary "towel trick!!!" I cannot believe this worked...I have no clue how long it will work for, but I hope it works until they drop the price or release the rumored 360 with an HDMI connection.

    I'm still stunned. Just seeing the dashboard is miracle...wow.
    Ok, I guess I am in the dark on this one. What exactly is the "towel trick"? This will be good for me to know in case mine ever goes out. I got mine during Demeber of 05 (just after Christmas), so I'm not sure if mine is from an early enough batch to potentially have a lot of these early system issues, and anything I can do to prevent a problem from happening and to fix things if ever a problem does occur will be good knowledge to have.

    Quote Originally Posted by IronAvatar View Post
    The problem with having a market pushed forward by first-party titles, is that you immediatly have a conflict of interests with other developers. And I know from experience, you can't rely on on a platform holder to treat you fairly when they want to be top dog during the busiest sales time.
    I understand where you are coming from. And all I can say on that front is that it's a matter of finding balance between the first and third party.

    If Sony doesn't get enough units moved, then there isn't enough potential for a 3rd party PS3 exclusive title to sell well enough to make the kind of profit that a similar title on PS2 would make (or as much as putting the same title on all 3 new gen systems).

    While it would be bad for Sony to become overly first-party-centric as Nintendo aparenty has in the past, if Sony were to make some heavy hitting first party titles, then it could draw more attention to the system. More attention to the system would hopefully equal more systems being purchased and put in more households. And with more systems out there, it would leave greater potential for a PS3 third party game to sell enough units to remain exlcusive to the system.

    It's hard to say how things will pan out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oceanwalker View Post
    I don't know why people are jumping the gun about this. PS3 has been available for 2 months (as of 1/17/07) and we all know the initial shortage started ebay madness. Since then, people have bought systems as they have been delivered.

    Let's be real here tho'. Wii is $250. PS3 and Xbox at minimum is twice that. Hardcore gamers will flock to the PS3 and Xbox 360s (which has been out for a year and thus have larger market penetration).

    By next Xmas, there will be enough PS3's on the market that the system will be more than viable.

    One thing we are forgetting is that because the PS2 (THE hottest selling gift for Xmas '06) is established and still breathing, Sony really isn't in dire straits to make sure the PS3 sells hot right now. Would it be nice? Hell yes! But is it essential? At this moment, no. Will it be a little uncomfortable if by January '08, sales have not picked up substantially? Even more so.

    People are all about instant gratification and as such, there's this uneasy shifting in the chair if something isn't a runaway blockbuster hit. PS3s became readily available after the New Year and people are broke.

    As the year goes on and more titles are released, PS3 sales will mount.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oceanwalker View Post
    Well, look the Wii is cheaper and even I am looking for one for my 7-year old nephew. I know it is hard to get. The PS3 and the Xbox aren't for everyone (especially kids - geared for more adults). It makes sense that the affordable system is more scarce and Nintendo did have a stronger game line-up than Sony.

    In fact, it is telling that the most awaited game for a Sony system is God of War 2 (PS2). Right now, the PS3 is out there and if you want one, go buy it but the PS2 is outselling all 3 newer systems at this point.

    I think in the end, the fact that the PS3 can play the PS2 games (already invested) will make people pick it up in the future (provided that a stronger game line-up appears by the end of of 07).

    Here's the point, though. There's supposed to be a SHORTAGE of PS3s, yet you can easily walk into a store, pick up one and buy it without really having to hunt for it. It would be one thing for that to be the case if Sony had released a huge over abundance of it well beyond what their initial projected number of launch-to-Christmas systems (meaning, back before they kept reducing the number, and reducing it again, etc).

    But, here we are just a few weeks after Christmas and you can easily get it. Heck, it wasn't that hard to get just days after Christmas.

    You may look at 2 or 3 PS3's sitting there in a store as being a small number and nothing to worry about, but this close after Christmas, that says a lot.
    Plus, you have to consider that the PS3's still aren't being produced and delivered to stores in extremely huge numbers. Depending on the chain of store, location, and population around the area, many stores may only be getting in 3 to 6 systems at a time (give or take). So, if most if not all of those systems sit there for days before being sold, while the Wii isn't even so much as touching the shelf, again, that says a lot.

    I was in a local Target a week ago, and they had 5 or 6 of the 60g PS3s sitting there in the glass case. And mind you, given the size of the game cases at Taget, there wasn't room to fit many more in the case (so, it's possibe that they may have had more sitting in the back somewhere to be put out once those other ones sold).

    And plus, I live near the Naperville Illinois area. While not everyone is rich, there is a rather large population of well-to-do people around here who could easily afford the $600 price of PS3, and yet it still sits on the shelf.

    Last year, it was a good couple of months or more after Christmas before you could readily walk into a store and get a 360. And thus far, the same is holding true with the Wii.

    Also, then there's the ebay factor. Last year, the 360's at the insanely highly inflated ebay prices were still selling rather well. The same was the case this past holiday season with the Wii. And, let's not forget that the same was true with the PS2 when it launched.

    But, aside from a few that sold well right around the time of launch, the PS3 market on ebay dropped off considerably, with many systems either selling for not to much above retail cost, and with many just being returned to stores having not been sold on ebay at all.

    So, all of this adds up to people, even the same die-hard people who paid ebay prices for 360 and Wii, not being nearly as interested in PS3, apparently.


    As for PS2 sales being great, yeah, that's awesome, but it doesn't help the future of PS3 all that much. The reason PS2 sold well was because it was readily available with little difficulty in finding it, and it was cheap. Plus, it has been the most popular system of the last generation, with a lot of games available for it, many now at lower 'greatest hit' prices. Despite both being under the "Playstation" name, the general vibe I've been getting is that many people's opinons of the PS2 and PS3 tend to be very different. While they may still like and praise PS2, they aren't so crazy about it's 'successor'.

    Sure, the PS3 may be backwards compatible, but still, clearly anyone who just bought a PS2 has a brand-spanking new system that plays their PS2 games just fine (I've heard little complaints about the slim model malfunctioning like the older, larger one), so until some heavy hitting exclusives come out for PS3, there's little reason for people to upgrade. The backwards compatibility may be nice, but since they already have a system to play their PS2 games on, it doesn't make the PS3 necessary at all. And while it may be more optimal to have one system that plays all of your games rather than multplie systems for different formats, the slim PS2 is so small that even if the recent purchasers of that eventually get a Wii or a 360, it's not like having one of the newer systems in addition to the slim PS2 is going to horribly clog up their entertainment center.



    Also, Xbox 360 does not cost double that of the Wii. The more expensive $400 version is only $150 more than the Wii. The CHEAP version of PS3 is double the price of the Wii, and the more expensive version is $100 MORE than the Wii.


    The problem with PS3 is that they've gone for TOO hardcore of an audience. They've practically priced themselves out of the water. While Xbox 360 is also going for more of a hardcore audience, they are still priced reasonably enough to gain a reasonable amount of casual gamers and keep themselves competitive across the board.

    Though, I also think there's more to this than just price. Because apparently a lot of the same die-hard gamers who were willing to pay $1,000 for a 360 on ebay last year wouldn't pay around the same this year for PS3, nor will they even walk into a store and buy one that sitting there for retail price.


    The PS2 was successful for multiple reasons (despite the isses that I have with the systems that I have stated many times). It was competitively priced, it had DVD built into it (which at the time had been around for over 3 years and was clearly going to replace VHS sooner or later at that point). It was $300, the same price as the PS1 when it first came out. The system had plenty in it to keep the die-hard gamers and technophiles happy, while still being reasonably priced enough for the more casual consumer. And that just held even more true as price drops occured.

    This time around, instead of DVD, the big thing is Blu-Ray, but many people are leary of jumping on the format since it has HD-DVD as competition and it is undecided as to who will be the winner. Heck, even the one person I know (meaning in person, and not on the internet) who even has a PS3 has even said that he will not jump on getting any Blu-Ray movies because of the war with HD-DVD. And he is a pretty big movie fan/DVD collector who also has an HDTV, so he would basically be the Target audience for that. And what's worse is that the inclusion of Blu-Ray is the biggest part of what's jacking up the price on the system.

    I mean, let's face it, a big part of the appeal of PS2 for consumers this past Christmas was the $129 price tag. The problem is that I don't think we will ever see PS3 at anywhere near that price (and if it ever will happen, we are a LONG ways off from it).

    Even when the new systems start to drop in price, PS3 will still continually be much more expensive than the competition. Even if it eventually/gradually drops $200 off of it's price over the course of time, then at that point its two respective models will still be the same price as the launch price of the two models of Xbox 360. That's not going to be much of an incentive for the casual gaming audience.

    What this boils down to is that unless Sony really pulls something out of their butts to get the systems into more homes, then there won't be enough systems around for the 3rd party companies who have developed exclusive content for the PS2 to continue to do so for PS3. In order for those games to profit, they will need to be on multiple systems, or exclusive to a system that is in more homes than the PS3. So, either Sony will lose those games entirely, or they will at least be available on other systems, thus giving people even less of a reason to spend the extra cash for the PS3 when they can play essentially the same thing elsewhere for less money.
    Last edited by Dynamo of Eternia; January 16, 2007 at 11:12am.
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  12. #1262
    Almighty Dictator Skullface's Avatar
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    Update on the Ghostbusters game:

    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/755/755532p1.html

    Cool to see that the videos are legit, and that the game is in the works, but sad to hear licensing issues are delaying it's progress. I hope they get it together and release this bad boy!
    This space for rent, apparently.....

  13. #1263
    Supreme Fudge Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skullface View Post
    Update on the Ghostbusters game:

    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/755/755532p1.html

    Cool to see that the videos are legit, and that the game is in the works, but sad to hear licensing issues are delaying it's progress. I hope they get it together and release this bad boy!
    I hope this all pans out. I'll buy this as soon as it comes out.

    Though, I'm fairly certain that the licensing issues probably have something to do with Bill Murray not being cooperative.
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  14. #1264
    Tri-Solar Lord Oceanwalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    Ok, I guess I am in the dark on this one. What exactly is the "towel trick"? This will be good for me to know in case mine ever goes out. I got mine during Demeber of 05 (just after Christmas), so I'm not sure if mine is from an early enough batch to potentially have a lot of these early system issues, and anything I can do to prevent a problem from happening and to fix things if ever a problem does occur will be good knowledge to have.



    I understand where you are coming from. And all I can say on that front is that it's a matter of finding balance between the first and third party.

    If Sony doesn't get enough units moved, then there isn't enough potential for a 3rd party PS3 exclusive title to sell well enough to make the kind of profit that a similar title on PS2 would make (or as much as putting the same title on all 3 new gen systems).

    While it would be bad for Sony to become overly first-party-centric as Nintendo aparenty has in the past, if Sony were to make some heavy hitting first party titles, then it could draw more attention to the system. More attention to the system would hopefully equal more systems being purchased and put in more households. And with more systems out there, it would leave greater potential for a PS3 third party game to sell enough units to remain exlcusive to the system.

    It's hard to say how things will pan out.








    Here's the point, though. There's supposed to be a SHORTAGE of PS3s, yet you can easily walk into a store, pick up one and buy it without really having to hunt for it. It would be one thing for that to be the case if Sony had released a huge over abundance of it well beyond what their initial projected number of launch-to-Christmas systems (meaning, back before they kept reducing the number, and reducing it again, etc).

    But, here we are just a few weeks after Christmas and you can easily get it. Heck, it wasn't that hard to get just days after Christmas.

    You may look at 2 or 3 PS3's sitting there in a store as being a small number and nothing to worry about, but this close after Christmas, that says a lot.
    Plus, you have to consider that the PS3's still aren't being produced and delivered to stores in extremely huge numbers. Depending on the chain of store, location, and population around the area, many stores may only be getting in 3 to 6 systems at a time (give or take). So, if most if not all of those systems sit there for days before being sold, while the Wii isn't even so much as touching the shelf, again, that says a lot.

    I was in a local Target a week ago, and they had 5 or 6 of the 60g PS3s sitting there in the glass case. And mind you, given the size of the game cases at Taget, there wasn't room to fit many more in the case (so, it's possibe that they may have had more sitting in the back somewhere to be put out once those other ones sold).

    And plus, I live near the Naperville Illinois area. While not everyone is rich, there is a rather large population of well-to-do people around here who could easily afford the $600 price of PS3, and yet it still sits on the shelf.

    Last year, it was a good couple of months or more after Christmas before you could readily walk into a store and get a 360. And thus far, the same is holding true with the Wii.

    Also, then there's the ebay factor. Last year, the 360's at the insanely highly inflated ebay prices were still selling rather well. The same was the case this past holiday season with the Wii. And, let's not forget that the same was true with the PS2 when it launched.

    But, aside from a few that sold well right around the time of launch, the PS3 market on ebay dropped off considerably, with many systems either selling for not to much above retail cost, and with many just being returned to stores having not been sold on ebay at all.

    So, all of this adds up to people, even the same die-hard people who paid ebay prices for 360 and Wii, not being nearly as interested in PS3, apparently.


    As for PS2 sales being great, yeah, that's awesome, but it doesn't help the future of PS3 all that much. The reason PS2 sold well was because it was readily available with little difficulty in finding it, and it was cheap. Plus, it has been the most popular system of the last generation, with a lot of games available for it, many now at lower 'greatest hit' prices. Despite both being under the "Playstation" name, the general vibe I've been getting is that many people's opinons of the PS2 and PS3 tend to be very different. While they may still like and praise PS2, they aren't so crazy about it's 'successor'.

    Sure, the PS3 may be backwards compatible, but still, clearly anyone who just bought a PS2 has a brand-spanking new system that plays their PS2 games just fine (I've heard little complaints about the slim model malfunctioning like the older, larger one), so until some heavy hitting exclusives come out for PS3, there's little reason for people to upgrade. The backwards compatibility may be nice, but since they already have a system to play their PS2 games on, it doesn't make the PS3 necessary at all. And while it may be more optimal to have one system that plays all of your games rather than multplie systems for different formats, the slim PS2 is so small that even if the recent purchasers of that eventually get a Wii or a 360, it's not like having one of the newer systems in addition to the slim PS2 is going to horribly clog up their entertainment center.



    Also, Xbox 360 does not cost double that of the Wii. The more expensive $400 version is only $150 more than the Wii. The CHEAP version of PS3 is double the price of the Wii, and the more expensive version is $100 MORE than the Wii.


    The problem with PS3 is that they've gone for TOO hardcore of an audience. They've practically priced themselves out of the water. While Xbox 360 is also going for more of a hardcore audience, they are still priced reasonably enough to gain a reasonable amount of casual gamers and keep themselves competitive across the board.

    Though, I also think there's more to this than just price. Because apparently a lot of the same die-hard gamers who were willing to pay $1,000 for a 360 on ebay last year wouldn't pay around the same this year for PS3, nor will they even walk into a store and buy one that sitting there for retail price.


    The PS2 was successful for multiple reasons (despite the isses that I have with the systems that I have stated many times). It was competitively priced, it had DVD built into it (which at the time had been around for over 3 years and was clearly going to replace VHS sooner or later at that point). It was $300, the same price as the PS1 when it first came out. The system had plenty in it to keep the die-hard gamers and technophiles happy, while still being reasonably priced enough for the more casual consumer. And that just held even more true as price drops occured.

    This time around, instead of DVD, the big thing is Blu-Ray, but many people are leary of jumping on the format since it has HD-DVD as competition and it is undecided as to who will be the winner. Heck, even the one person I know (meaning in person, and not on the internet) who even has a PS3 has even said that he will not jump on getting any Blu-Ray movies because of the war with HD-DVD. And he is a pretty big movie fan/DVD collector who also has an HDTV, so he would basically be the Target audience for that. And what's worse is that the inclusion of Blu-Ray is the biggest part of what's jacking up the price on the system.

    I mean, let's face it, a big part of the appeal of PS2 for consumers this past Christmas was the $129 price tag. The problem is that I don't think we will ever see PS3 at anywhere near that price (and if it ever will happen, we are a LONG ways off from it).

    Even when the new systems start to drop in price, PS3 will still continually be much more expensive than the competition. Even if it eventually/gradually drops $200 off of it's price over the course of time, then at that point its two respective models will still be the same price as the launch price of the two models of Xbox 360. That's not going to be much of an incentive for the casual gaming audience.

    What this boils down to is that unless Sony really pulls something out of their butts to get the systems into more homes, then there won't be enough systems around for the 3rd party companies who have developed exclusive content for the PS2 to continue to do so for PS3. In order for those games to profit, they will need to be on multiple systems, or exclusive to a system that is in more homes than the PS3. So, either Sony will lose those games entirely, or they will at least be available on other systems, thus giving people even less of a reason to spend the extra cash for the PS3 when they can play essentially the same thing elsewhere for less money.
    The PS3 shortage was for the Xmas holidays. The shortage has been over. Nobody has said that there is a shortage anymore.

    In fact, the reason why we see "so many" PS3's is because Sony shipped a ton right around New Years.

    We all know that Xbox has year up on on the PS3 in terms of titles, we also know that the Wii has a leg up on both systems because of its price.

    Look, the PS3 line-up right now is not to die for or even knick yourself for and that's what is hurting it the most right now.

  15. #1265
    Master of My Domain PJMania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discosupafly View Post
    I, on the other hand, completely agree with G.M. The thing's been a bit of a train wreck from the word go what with faulty systems occurring much more often than any other I care to remember. The indefinable, general "feel" in the gaming community here (Japan) is not for support of the PS3 either - although this will most likely change somewhat once the next Final Fantasy gets released.

    Wii rules supreme here, and I too have yet to ever see a console for sale on the shelves. The PS3 however has been readily available since after Christmas at almost all the stores I frequent. Here's a shot I took of two 20GB models and a 60GB one gathering dust..
    1) In different parts of the country you'll find different systems still on the shelf. The day after Christmas, I couldn't find a single PS3 on shelves anywhere in the Cleveland area. Xbox 360's on the other hand, there were many. I recall seeing a little more than a dozen at a Best Buy (both the core and the expensive models). Wiis on the other hand, you can't find those anywhere, no matter where you go.

    2) to say a system is a complete disaster a couple months after its released isn't exactly an accurate statement. When SNES was released, it didn't do nearly as well as expected, and in the long run, it ended up beating the Sega Genesis considerably. Likewise, the Sega Dreamcast didn't do too bad at launch, but we all know what happened to that.

    My take: I don't expect PS3 to be a smashing success. If it wins this generation's console war (which I doubt it will do) it won't be by the huge margins the PS2 won by. I also don't expect the PS3 to be a total failure like some people posting in this thread. It seems some people just have a geniune dislike for Sony as a company, which is completely ok, because I have those same feelings for Microsoft as a company.
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  16. #1266
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    We got our Wii on Saturday morning (thanks to order Okayplayer for hooking us up at cost!) and we have been playing Marvel Ultimate Alliance ever since

    It got low ratings and people complained about the controls and graphics but my wife and I LOVE it, I think the control is more relaxing and just feels better.

    Regardless that game is leaps and strides above X-Men Legends that we own for the GC

    Saving Zelda for when we get out HD set next month and played Wii Sports (love the boxing)

    Coming from a person that owns every system that has ever come out (seriously a garage full, just put the Saturn and the N64 in there and gave the PS2 to my brother), this is the first time since probably the NES that I have had this much affection towards a game system!

    People can call the controller a gimmick but damnit that gimmick works REALLY well!!
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  17. #1267
    The power has returned MOTUfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    We got our Wii on Saturday morning (thanks to order Okayplayer for hooking us up at cost!) and we have been playing Marvel Ultimate Alliance ever since

    It got low ratings and people complained about the controls and graphics but my wife and I LOVE it, I think the control is more relaxing and just feels better.

    Regardless that game is leaps and strides above X-Men Legends that we own for the GC

    Saving Zelda for when we get out HD set next month and played Wii Sports (love the boxing)

    Coming from a person that owns every system that has ever come out (seriously a garage full, just put the Saturn and the N64 in there and gave the PS2 to my brother), this is the first time since probably the NES that I have had this much affection towards a game system!

    People can call the controller a gimmick but damnit that gimmick works REALLY well!!

    So you use the wiimote on the games like Marvel Alliance as well?? I so need to get this system lol. But it looks like I will get it more towards spring/summer now

    Brent
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  18. #1268
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTUfan View Post
    So you use the wiimote on the games like Marvel Alliance as well?? I so need to get this system lol. But it looks like I will get it more towards spring/summer now

    Brent
    Yes in Marvel Ultimate Alliance you pull off the moves by using the wiimote (you can also use a and b), I really like the feel of flying and controlling someone like Iron Man with the nunchuck

    Like I said I am 100% sure the Xbox360 and PS3 kick the heck out of the Wii version but for me who has dibiliating arthritis the ability to not have to have my hands closed around a controller is just amazing, I can leave my hands on my lap and still control the game comfortably

    I have learned on the Wii the controls take you away from worrying about the graphics in the game, right now I could care less how impressive the X360 and PS3 are because I am having fun....its been a long time and a lot of money spent since I could honestly say that
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  19. #1269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oceanwalker View Post
    The PS3 shortage was for the Xmas holidays. The shortage has been over. Nobody has said that there is a shortage anymore.

    In fact, the reason why we see "so many" PS3's is because Sony shipped a ton right around New Years.

    .
    and because there have been a LOT of returns - reports indicate that those returns were mainly by scalpers. at this point since the hype died down there isn't all that much purchasing interest in the PS3 that is why people are pointing out how abundant they are in stores so soon after Christmas - personally I still can't find a tickle me elmo or a wii.

  20. #1270
    The power has returned MOTUfan's Avatar
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    Now that the PS3 shortages are over, I sure hope the Wii shortages stop so I can just walk into a Wal-Mart/Target or K-Mart and buy one without waiting in a dang line. Especially now with the low temp outside

    Brent
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  21. #1271
    Super Powered Mod! markatisu's Avatar
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    I have been hearing that 1/21 stores should have enough Wii's or at least more than the 2-4 they have been getting weekly (I think it may be in the Target ad that weekend)

    If you stalk gamestop/eb games enough during the week you can get one

    I was expecting to wait till March myself but my friend was just around EB at the time and got me one, I was never so happy to spend $265 lol

    I also bought a extra nunchuck and wiimote and preordered Wiiplay since it comes with a wiimote
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  22. #1272
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  23. #1273
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    All I can say is that no matter how long I play my Wii, I have fun with it and I enjoy it. But when I turn on my my 360 in HD on my plasma tv that makes a huge difference to me and I forget that I have a Wii. Getting on Xbox live and downloading movie trailers in HD, videoclips, streaming music and video wirelessly from my pc, xbox live arcade, popping in a dvd, video chat, playing other people online....to me that makes it a better all around system. And everytime I play a PS3 at a game store...I'm just not impressed. It just seems like an overpriced xbox.

    side note, I do wish that they would release more VC games for the Wii faster. I'd love to play more classic NES games like ghostbusters, Karnov, Rygar, track and field, dragon warrior, ghost and goblins.... anyone know what their plan is? Are they going to try and release alot of games or just slowley release select games?
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  24. #1274
    Almighty Dictator Skullface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeologyMule View Post
    side note, I do wish that they would release more VC games for the Wii faster. I'd love to play more classic NES games like ghostbusters, Karnov, Rygar, track and field, dragon warrior, ghost and goblins.... anyone know what their plan is? Are they going to try and release alot of games or just slowley release select games?
    I believe Nintendo stated they're planning on releasing around 10 games or so a month. The believed strategy is that they will hold off on most of the really high profile games (Metroids/Zeldas/Marios, etc...) until there is a "perceived" drought of high profile Wii software. Right now, the systems are still sold out everywhere, and if they intend on the VC being profitable for 5+ years, it makes financial sense for them to be slow about it. I'm not complaining, as it gives other "lesser" known games that I (and many others) missed out on to have some time in the spotlight. (I never had a Turbografx-16, and am really enjoying a lot of that system's titles I never got to play.....)
    This space for rent, apparently.....

  25. #1275
    He-Man's PR: No Comment hemanrep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
    Ok, I guess I am in the dark on this one. What exactly is the "towel trick"? This will be good for me to know in case mine ever goes out. I got mine during Demeber of 05 (just after Christmas), so I'm not sure if mine is from an early enough batch to potentially have a lot of these early system issues, and anything I can do to prevent a problem from happening and to fix things if ever a problem does occur will be good knowledge to have.
    I think any 360 purchased in the first six months of the 360 launch is going to eventually die. I have had great luck with my launch consoles and to have mine die is a rarity.

    Anyhow, on the IGN Insider Forums, someone created a thread that talked about his 360 getting the 3 red lights. So he covered the console with a towel, pretty much suffocating it. The only cord thing plugged into the 360 was the power cord. After 15 minutes, he removed the towel, let the system cool off, and he turned it on and it worked again.

    See, I didn't believe it until I actually did it. I was laughing like a crazy psychotic person when the dashboard came up. Unfortunately, it has started to freeze again, but I have yet to get the 3 lights. The guy said he did the towel method again so I think I'm gonna have to try it again.

    It's a crazy thing, but I've been posting on the .org for more than 5 years and I've yet to been called a liar.

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