What Was the Sorceress' Rationale?

[Canadian_He-Man]

I've been thinking a lot about the Sorceress. It occured to me she's a little bit like a top-notch intelligence agency - she effectively keeps great secrets, and seemingly knows all

Why do you think she wanted the knowledge of Adam being He-Man, and Adora being She-Ra, kept from their parents, and from many of their closest allies (Bow, Glimmer, and Teela)? Why were Kowl, Madame Razz, and Orko signaled out as part of an inner circle to be let in on the secret (Duncan, the Sorceress herself, and Lighthope, are pretty self-explanatory)?

Most importantly... why did she keep knowledge of the fact that she was Teela's mother from Teela?

I'm glad that the show had these elements, because they added a nice, interesting wrinkle, but you kind of have to wonder what the Sorceress' rationale for all this is.

I almost imagine the Sorceress as some grand mastermind keeping a constant eye on BOTH Eternia, and Etheria, and with He-Man and She-Ra basically being her top operatives. Almost like she's the Pennyworth to their 007.

[Evil-Lyn]

Well, the role of duality was never played up as far as it could have been. You found the same thing with "Jem" in that regard; she would flirt with Rio as Jem, and then date him as Rio. It's no wonder the poor guy had issues, and looked at a certain way you realize that Jem was extremely deceptive and lied for no good reason - why couldn't Rio have known? Well, that's because that is where 1/2 the drama came from.

Now, it's the same for He-Man and She-Ra. Neither series would have been as interesting dramatically if the concept of "secret identities" hadn't been introduced. For the same reason Teela, Randor, and Marlena were kept out of the loop with He-Man, and the similar situation She-Ra faced. For She-Ra I can imagine it was more important, as it was a tactical advantage in the middle of a war, but it seemed that Adam was more of a hinderance to He-Man than anything else.

So, to answer your question, I don't believe there was a rationale per se, I just always bought the whole "it's for their own protection" idea. But when looked at rationally, it does make you wonder why they bothered changing back and forth at all. It's not like there was ever any indication that their transformation was somehow time limited, so one presumes they could have just remained in that form had they wished.

Evil-Lyn

[Mirage]

why did she keep knowledge of the fact that she was Teela's mother from Teela?

To me, it's something akin to telling your kids about sex (She'd always intended to tell her, but she just kept putting it off and putting it off and putting it off ... until the last possible moment. )

I almost imagine the Sorceress as some grand mastermind keeping a constant eye on BOTH Eternia, and Etheria, and with He-Man and She-Ra basically being her top operatives. Almost like she's the Pennyworth to their 007.

To me, she's closer to M than Moneypenny (She's the one who sends them out on a lot of their missions.)

[Eaglehost!]

I think it was amoral for them to keep it from their parents. If they had died, their parents would have been upset.

I can understand not telling the girls but not telling the King?!? That's just downright crazy.

[8-Bit Star]

Well, the role of duality was never played up as far as it could have been. You found the same thing with "Jem" in that regard; she would flirt with Rio as Jem, and then date him as Rio. It's no wonder the poor guy had issues, and looked at a certain way you realize that Jem was extremely deceptive and lied for no good reason - why couldn't Rio have known? Well, that's because that is where 1/2 the drama came from.

One of my Jem-loving friends told me that later episodes introduce the idea that Rio has a bad temper and would probably have flown off the handle if he figured out he had been being lied to. But after watching the complete first and second seasons set, I don't really get that... I mean, at one point he outright says that he thinks Jerrica is Jem and she goes on to trick him anyway

Now, with He-Man and She-Ra, recently I've begun to think the secret identities thing was pretty much, pointless. Except for one thing (and this was mentioned in another topic)--it affords the heroes some degree of security. Especially Adora--I could imagine it causing problems if she was She-Ra full-time.

[Canadian_He-Man]

I think it was amoral for them to keep it from their parents. If they had died, their parents would have been upset.

In fairness to Adora, she wanted her parents to know that her, and She-Ra, were one and the same. Adam quickly squashed the idea, but you could tell that Adora didn't like it.

Adam/He-Man, and the Sorceress, are her heroes. You can't blame her for going along with them.

I can understand not telling the girls but not telling the King?!? That's just downright crazy.

Well... I've given this some thought, and here's a theory on it.

I think that the Sorceress wanted He-Man, and She-Ra, to be seen as legendary heroic figures of mystery. She wanted Skeletor, and Hordak, to be a bit on edge never knowing when one or the other or both might show up, and having no idea from whence they came and to where they go (after the action is over).

I think that the Sorceress wanted He-Man, and She-Ra, to be seen as "larger than life" figures to inspire a prevailing sense of hope (especially in She-Ra's case), and security (especially in He-Man's case), in the masses.

She wanted people to think that they were like Superman, and Wonder Woman - super-powerful full-time, and shrouded in elegant mystery.

If people were to know that He-Man, and She-Ra, were just the Prince and Princess transformed, maybe Skeletor and Hordak would feel more confidant against them... maybe more people would be trying to steal their swords from them, and try to use it for themselves!

Duncan, I think, HAD to know. He was the brains of the operation on Eternia, and the main security force.

Lighthope served the Sorceress' role on Etheria, so he had to know to.

However, to keep He-Man and She-Ra symbols of "larger than life" hope and security, and to prevent people from trying to take their swords, perhaps the Sorceress wanted the secrets in place.

Perhaps it was also to curb them from getting too big an ego?

There's no question that the poor image of Adam that was held in his father, and Teela's, eyes, certianly kept him from feeling overly proud about his accomplishments as He-Man.

At some point, though, yes - I think that the King should have been let in on the secret. Queen Marlena probably already has it figured out.

Well, the role of duality was never played up as far as it could have been. You found the same thing with "Jem" in that regard; she would flirt with Rio as Jem, and then date him as Rio. It's no wonder the poor guy had issues, and looked at a certain way you realize that Jem was extremely deceptive and lied for no good reason - why couldn't Rio have known? Well, that's because that is where 1/2 the drama came from.

Now, it's the same for He-Man and She-Ra. Neither series would have been as interesting dramatically if the concept of "secret identities" hadn't been introduced. For the same reason Teela, Randor, and Marlena were kept out of the loop with He-Man, and the similar situation She-Ra faced. For She-Ra I can imagine it was more important, as it was a tactical advantage in the middle of a war, but it seemed that Adam was more of a hinderance to He-Man than anything else.

So, to answer your question, I don't believe there was a rationale per se, I just always bought the whole "it's for their own protection" idea. But when looked at rationally, it does make you wonder why they bothered changing back and forth at all. It's not like there was ever any indication that their transformation was somehow time limited, so one presumes they could have just remained in that form had they wished.

Evil-Lyn

Those are great points! Perhaps the Sorceress is weakened slightly whenever Adam is He-Man, and/or Adora is She-Ra, and she thus wouldn't want them as He-Man/She-Ra full-time?

Just an idea there.

Mirage - I see what you mean there. That's a good analogy.

[chamita116]

I was all about the "they're safer not knowing" theory right up until Marlena basically told Adam "I know you're He-Man" and the Sorceress didn't alter her memory. We know she could have, yet she didn't, so there's got to be something behind her motives besides safety.

Personally, I think the Sorceress keeps the secret on a "need to know" basis, then makes decisions as situations arise. Someone has to know where Adam really is when Skeletor attacks so that they can cover for him, so I think that's where Duncan comes in. Cringer obviously has to know. Orko found out by accident, but maybe there's some grand plan behind that which was never revealed. Maybe she allows Marlena to know because, hey, someone's gotta keep Randor from being too hard on Adam.

[bcrduke]

well, if you go by the new cartoon, there is a grand plan as to why Orko would have to find out... I think he is the Oracle from the Powers of Grayskull episode of the new toon... (I know this is about classic - but it's basically the same story).

[Blue]

I've been thinking a lot about the Sorceress.

Now this is a smart man.

In regards to your question, Canadian He-Man, I believe a lot of it had to do with both drama, as Evil-Lyn pointed out and keeping it on a need-to-know basis like Chimta said. After all, it's much easier to keep a secret when only a few people know.

You make an interesting point about her wanting He-Man and She-Ra to appear as legendary figures for the people and against their enemies. To large extent, keeping the secret from the enemies was a tactical advantage and kept them out of at least some danger.

As for Teela, I believe the Sorceress didn't tell about her destiny because she wanted her daughter to enjoy life. I think that's one reason she knew Teela shouldn't grow up in Grayskull alone and away from people. She wanted the best for her daughter and knew the knowledge of Teela's destiny could place a heavy burden on her mind. Teela, for her part, didn't necessarily seem ready to know. In "Teela's Triumph" during her conversation with MAA she gets very emotional when she is expected to defend Grayskull, and I think the Sorceress knew the secret could wait for a better time.

[Evil-Lyn]

Those are great points! Perhaps the Sorceress is weakened slightly whenever Adam is He-Man, and/or Adora is She-Ra, and she thus wouldn't want them as He-Man/She-Ra full-time?

That would have been a great explaination! And a way to foil He-Man, should anyone find out (you know, the whole distract-buffy-from-the-library-so-you-can-steal-her-friends move).

One of my Jem-loving friends told me that later episodes introduce the idea that Rio has a bad temper and would probably have flown off the handle if he figured out he had been being lied to. But after watching the complete first and second seasons set, I don't really get that... I mean, at one point he outright says that he thinks Jerrica is Jem and she goes on to trick him anyway

Now, with He-Man and She-Ra, recently I've begun to think the secret identities thing was pretty much, pointless. Except for one thing (and this was mentioned in another topic)--it affords the heroes some degree of security. Especially Adora--I could imagine it causing problems if she was She-Ra full-time.

RE: Jem, what happened was that Synergy ran a computer simulation of Rio, based on known variables (pretty neat concept for 80's kids TV) and how he would react if Jerrica revealed her secret. Then Jerrica told the simulaton, and it freaked out ("I hate being lied to and I hate liars!"). Then, Jerrica has this suspicion supposedly confirmed when the real Rio observes Kimber lying to a boyfriend, and sort of wigs out. I believe the episode is "Kimber's Rebellion".

I agree, it was largely "pointless" in terms of plot for He-Man and She-Ra. I don't think I'd change it, because of what it added to the show in terms of tension and drama, but especially with He-Man it's hard to see why he didn't simply just remain one. Then again, Skeletor and his pals seemed to get into the palace awfully easily - he would have had to give up his "normal" life completely.

Evil-Lyn

[Canadian_He-Man]

Now this is a smart man.

Thanks!

In regards to your question, Canadian He-Man, I believe a lot of it had to do with both drama, as Evil-Lyn pointed out and keeping it on a need-to-know basis like Chimta said. After all, it's much easier to keep a secret when only a few people know.

You make an interesting point about her wanting He-Man and She-Ra to appear as legendary figures for the people and against their enemies. To large extent, keeping the secret from the enemies was a tactical advantage and kept them out of at least some danger.

As for Teela, I believe the Sorceress didn't tell about her destiny because she wanted her daughter to enjoy life. I think that's one reason she knew Teela shouldn't grow up in Grayskull alone and away from people. She wanted the best for her daughter and knew the knowledge of Teela's destiny could place a heavy burden on her mind. Teela, for her part, didn't necessarily seem ready to know. In "Teela's Triumph" during her conversation with MAA she gets very emotional when she is expected to defend Grayskull, and I think the Sorceress knew the secret could wait for a better time.

I agree with you on Teela. That makes a lot of sense.

Something to consider, though - is it possible that someone other than Teela will become the next Sorceress?

Evil-Lyn - I'm glad that you liked the explanation, and good point on how villians could make use if this.

Everybody - Thanks for the replies!

[Blue]

Something to consider, though - is it possible that someone other than Teela will become the next Sorceress?

Given the direction of the show, I believe it was inevitable ---but only if Teela chose it as her path. The Sorceress has a way of bringing out the inner hero in people (SOTS, Shokoti II) so I'm sure it would ultimately be up to Teela since the Sorceress does not force people to do her bidding. Rather, she illuminates the way to help people make the best choice.

That's actually one major way she contrasts with Shadow Weaver's treatment of Adora in SOTS. While Weaver uses her spells to control Adora and bend her will, the Sorceress uses her magic merely to create an illumination that reveals both the truth as well as the opportunity for Adora to trust in her own free will.

[chamita116]

Now this is a smart man.

In regards to your question, Canadian He-Man, I believe a lot of it had to do with both drama, as Evil-Lyn pointed out and keeping it on a need-to-know basis like Chimta said. After all, it's much easier to keep a secret when only a few people know.

"Chimta?"

[Mirage]

^ It's the Holidays ...



Did we overdo it yesterday, Blue?

[Blue]

^ It's the Holidays ...



Did we overdo it yesterday, Blue?

Yeah...we can blame it on that.

Sorry Chamita. I never claimed to be the best speller at the org! But I did agree with what you said. That must count for something, right?

[chamita116]

Yeah...we can blame it on that.

Sorry Chamita. I never claimed to be the best speller at the org! But I did agree with what you said. That must count for something, right?

It's cool, Bleu.

[Canadian_He-Man]

It's cool, Bleu.

Ha! Blue's turned French!

I'll have to show you around Quebec, Bleu.

[foxy11814]

Hey, guys! I decided to join the discussion after a very long hiatus. Anyway, I actually like the alter egos. I guess I'm just a big sucker for Prince Adam. But anyhoo... the way I've always viewed it is that the alter egos were a must. Prince Adam simply can't be He-Man all the time, because to him, that's not who he is. He was born Adam, so he wants to be Adam. He-Man is still him, but it's also a job. With that being said, he has to keep his alter ego a secret, because it could bring about a lot of problems. If Skeletor knew the truth, he'd do everything he could to catch Adam before he turns into He-Man. He would make sure to keep the Power Sword away from him. He might even kill him in his Adam form. This is why he's unlike Superman. When he's Clark Kent, he's still invincible, for the most part. This isn't true with Prince Adam. Besides, the existence of He-Man as a separate entity from Prince Adam keeps Skeletor's attention divided. Besides trying to take over Castle Grayskull and taking over Eternos, he also tries to think of ways to outsmart and get rid of He-Man. If he knew He-Man was really Prince Adam, even all of his effort would then turn to Eternos and Adam's family just to get to He-Man. He would do everything he could think of to get at Adam: destroy Eternos, kidnap his family and friends moreso than he already does because his family are who they are. It would never end for the poor boy. And, let's not even mention that if he stayed in He-Man form, he would constantly have to deal with people wanting to hear stories from him or help them do this or that. He'd never have a moment's rest.

As for the alter ego with Adora, I wouldn't think it would make a difference on Etheria for everyone to know, but of course, that would lead to Hordak putting two and two together and discover Adam's secret. And, if the people on Etheria knew, how would they keep it from Eternians since Skeletor keeps an eye on Etheria and Hordak. I'm sure he'd pick up Adora's identity and then put two and two together with Prince Adam. So, even for her, a secret identity is a must.

And, as for Teela, I tend to agree with Blue and the others on this one. Also, let's not forget, if everyone knew she was the future Sorceress, once again, Skeletor would use Teela as leverage against the Sorceress. Sure, he's used her against He-Man, but if he knew the truth, her life would be a lot harder because he'd be after her more often than he already is. And, I don't believe he's ever used her to get to the Sorceress. I honestly think if he used Teela as leverage on the Sorceress, he'd give all the good guys and especially He-Man and the Sorceress a run for their money.

That's just the way I've always looked at it.

[Silverrose]

My thought was that is was always safer if only a small number of people knew Adam and Adora's secret. Not everyone can be trusted; and the greater the number of people who know, the more likely someone will accidentally "spill the beans" around the wrong people or possibly have the information coerced out of or bought off them.

If Skeletor or Hordak knew the secret, then they'd just work on capturing Adam and Adora before they could change into He-Man and She-Ra and go from there.

[Canadian_He-Man]

Hey, guys! I decided to join the discussion after a very long hiatus. Anyway, I actually like the alter egos. I guess I'm just a big sucker for Prince Adam. But anyhoo... the way I've always viewed it is that the alter egos were a must. Prince Adam simply can't be He-Man all the time, because to him, that's not who he is. He was born Adam, so he wants to be Adam. He-Man is still him, but it's also a job. With that being said, he has to keep his alter ego a secret, because it could bring about a lot of problems. If Skeletor knew the truth, he'd do everything he could to catch Adam before he turns into He-Man. He would make sure to keep the Power Sword away from him. He might even kill him in his Adam form. This is why he's unlike Superman. When he's Clark Kent, he's still invincible, for the most part. This isn't true with Prince Adam. Besides, the existence of He-Man as a separate entity from Prince Adam keeps Skeletor's attention divided. Besides trying to take over Castle Grayskull and taking over Eternos, he also tries to think of ways to outsmart and get rid of He-Man. If he knew He-Man was really Prince Adam, even all of his effort would then turn to Eternos and Adam's family just to get to He-Man. He would do everything he could think of to get at Adam: destroy Eternos, kidnap his family and friends moreso than he already does because his family are who they are. It would never end for the poor boy. And, let's not even mention that if he stayed in He-Man form, he would constantly have to deal with people wanting to hear stories from him or help them do this or that. He'd never have a moment's rest.

As for the alter ego with Adora, I wouldn't think it would make a difference on Etheria for everyone to know, but of course, that would lead to Hordak putting two and two together and discover Adam's secret. And, if the people on Etheria knew, how would they keep it from Eternians since Skeletor keeps an eye on Etheria and Hordak. I'm sure he'd pick up Adora's identity and then put two and two together with Prince Adam. So, even for her, a secret identity is a must.

And, as for Teela, I tend to agree with Blue and the others on this one. Also, let's not forget, if everyone knew she was the future Sorceress, once again, Skeletor would use Teela as leverage against the Sorceress. Sure, he's used her against He-Man, but if he knew the truth, her life would be a lot harder because he'd be after her more often than he already is. And, I don't believe he's ever used her to get to the Sorceress. I honestly think if he used Teela as leverage on the Sorceress, he'd give all the good guys and especially He-Man and the Sorceress a run for their money.

That's just the way I've always looked at it.

Those are awesome points, Foxy. I agree with all of them!

Silverrose - You made great points as well.

[Canadian_He-Man]

As far as i remember (or read/saw/whatever) Orko saw Adam changing into He-man, and the Sorceress' hands were tied. But asked Orko never to reveal the secret.

I never really saw the She-ra series, but i imagine with regards to Kowl and Madam Razz it had to be the same situation.

Those would be good explanations, yeah. I once heard the same thing concerning Orko, now that I think about it.

In Teela's quest, it is beyond me why she erased teela's memory once she (teela) found out. Now there's irrationality if ever i saw some.

Yeah, especially since Teela didn't seem to be taking the news hard, or anything. I think that it may have added some depth to the story if Teela knew that the Sorceress was her mother (i.e. we'd get some good high-emotion scenes of Teela defending Castle Grayskull from Skeletor and his men).

[Mirage]

In Teela's quest, it is beyond me why she erased teela's memory once she (teela) found out. Now there's irrationality if ever i saw some.

My thinking is that she wasn't quite ready emotionally to deal with having Teela as her daughter (Teela DID catch her off-guard, after all.)


Also, it goes back to what I said earlier: she WANTED to tell her ... but she just kept putting it off.

[Reboot]

I really want to know what the Sorceress' rationale in initially raising Teela in a nest, in falcon form, was. Did she lose it for a while after her husband's death, because keeping a "human" baby on a rocky outcropping, vulnerable to the wind and rain and without so much as baby clothes or a sheet... I realise the alternative was keeping baby Teela in Greyskull itself, but even that was surely a better idea. At least there she had a bed and could use her powers to make clothes, etc for Teela.

My thinking is that she wasn't quite ready emotionally to deal with having Teela as her daughter (Teela DID catch her off-guard, after all.)

Also, it goes back to what I said earlier: she WANTED to tell her ... but she just kept putting it off.

Thing is though, what she did in Teela's Quest, in leaving her so that "she will only know that her mother... loves her very much" was actually crueler than just wiping her memory of the whole day - since it implies Teela will know that she DID find out who her mother was, but won't be able to remember anything about her. [Not that she MEANT to be cruel at all of course, since she intended it to be reassuring in some way... but break it down and, ow. Where Teela's concerned, the Sorceress' sense of judgement seems to go away.]

[artodron]

Being locked up in a dark castle full of spirits and mystical powers does something to you.
Take it from one who knows.