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Thread: Correct episode order!

  1. #1
    Hun
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    Correct episode order!

    Is there anywhere on the net a list of the episodes in broadcast order or the order they were made in?? not the production-code order.

  2. #2
    Human... Robot... Maniac Spacedust's Avatar
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    Isn't there a quite lengthy old thread about this? Maybe I imagined it (possible).

    Anyway, Busta has mentioned that he has access to an original US broadcast order, although (as far as I know) it has never been posted yet.
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  3. #3
    Heroic Warrior Emiliano's Avatar
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    The production order IS the order they were made in.
    If you mean the chronological order, the one we used in the DVD is the most correct one, even if we arranged thing here and there.
    I don't know if we have a broadcast ordere somewhere, but it may be possible that they haven't been broadcast with a chronological order since the beginning.

  4. #4
    Hun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    The production order IS the order they were made in.
    If you mean the chronological order, the one we used in the DVD is the most correct one, even if we arranged thing here and there.
    I don't know if we have a broadcast ordere somewhere, but it may be possible that they haven't been broadcast with a chronological order since the beginning.
    Actually the order on the DVDs is not correct. It is correct continuity-wise, but there was almost no continuity in he-man. You can see it's wrong if you look at the end credits. They changed them from time to time. Like the first 16 episodes made, had a different end credits than the later ones. Take a look at the end credits in those episodes:

    Diamond Ray of Disappearance
    Teela’s Quest
    Colassor Awakes
    The Dragon Invasion
    The Time Corridor
    She-Demon of Phantos
    The Curse of the Spellstone
    Creatures of the Tar Swamp
    The Song of Celice
    Disappearing Act
    Evil-Lyn’s Plot
    Reign of the Monster
    A Friend in Need
    Like Father, Like Daughter
    Prince Adam No More
    Dawn of Dragoon

    The next episodes added Erika Scheimer to the cast list and misspelled Linda Gary's name as Linda Gray. The names are now much more prominent.

    The last 10 episodes spelled her name Linda Gary. Those episodes were:
    The Once and Future Duke
    Search for the VHO
    The Huntsman
    The Remedy
    Evilseed
    House of Shokoti Part I
    House of Shokoti Part II
    Pawns of the Game Master
    Golden Disks of Knowledge
    The Heart of a Giant

    I am assuming these were the last 10 episodes to be made.

    Season 2.

    The last 32 episodes of season 2 changed the year from 1984 to 1985 in the end credits, and the jawbridge was animated. So, the last episodes of season 2 to be made were:

    Origin of the Sorceress
    A Trip to Morainia
    Battlecat
    The Time Wheel
    Journey to Stone City
    The Secret of Grayskull
    No Job Too Small
    The Bitter Rose
    The Gambler
    The Eternia Flower
    Teela's Triumph
    Double Trouble
    Orko's New Friend
    Mistaken Identity
    Monster on the Mountain
    To Save the Creatures
    Capture the Comet Keeper
    Orko's Return
    Battle of the Dragons
    Happy Birthday Roboto
    Visitors from Earth
    Search for a Son
    The Toy Maker
    The Magic Falls
    Time Doesn't Fly
    Here, There, Skeletors Everywhere
    Beauty and the Beast
    The Cold Zone
    Bargain with Evil
    The Games
    The Ancient Mirror of Avathar
    The Problem with Power

    There is an article about this here:

    http://www.he-man.org/cartoon/cmotu-...riations.shtml
    Last edited by Hun; June 10, 2007 at 07:46pm.

  5. #5
    Heroic Warrior Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hun View Post
    Actually the order on the DVDs is not correct. It is correct continuity-wise
    That's what I said
    We altered the produciton order to be correct continuity-wise

    but there was almost no continuity in he-man.
    True, that's why we altered very little the order: to fix the only few problems with the continuty.

    You can see it's wrong if you look at the end credits.
    Again, it isn't wrong. We changed it on purpose.

    There is an article about this here:

    http://www.he-man.org/cartoon/cmotu-...riations.shtml
    I know.. actually the person who wrote this article and decided the alteration on the DVD is the same.

  6. #6
    Hun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post

    I know.. actually the person who wrote this article and decided the alteration on the DVD is the same.
    Strange... why wouldn't he make the changes more in the spirit of the article... these changed end-credits clearly indicate a shuffled order of episodes. Even season 2 end-credits has 1984/1985 back and forth on S2V1/2

  7. #7
    Heroic Warrior Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hun View Post
    Strange... why wouldn't he make the changes more in the spirit of the article... these changed end-credits clearly indicate a shuffled order of episodes. Even season 2 end-credits has 1984/1985 back and forth on S2V1/2

    Because we wanted the episode in continuty order and follow the production order numbers as much
    Why should have we followed the production shuffles? It doesn't make sense storywise.
    But I'll let Busta explain more if he wants to...

  8. #8
    Hun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    Because we wanted the episode in continuty order and follow the production order numbers as much
    Why should have we followed the production shuffles? It doesn't make sense storywise.
    But I'll let Busta explain more if he wants to...
    I didn't mean to be unpleasent. I do love the season sets... I was just wondering, that's all. And if you listed the episodes like the article suggested, with the closing credits in order, it would still have been in order, storywise. I didn't mean to complain about the order on the DVDs, it's just that I really hate the procuction order, because its so obviously not the order the episodes were made in, nor the broadcast order. The production codes allocated appear to indicate nothing more than the formal clearance of an episode's script.

  9. #9
    Human... Robot... Maniac Spacedust's Avatar
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    Well I for one have longed for years for a proper broadcast order list. I love the DVDs, but would have really prefered them to be presented in broadcast order. In my eyes, "Teela's Quest" will always be the second episode, no matter what. (At least "The Cosmic Comet" wasn't presented as the first episode!!).
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  10. #10
    Hun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedust View Post
    Well I for one have longed for years for a proper broadcast order list. I love the DVDs, but would have really prefered them to be presented in broadcast order. In my eyes, "Teela's Quest" will always be the second episode, no matter what. (At least "The Cosmic Comet" wasn't presented as the first episode!!).
    And Colossor awakes as the third... Dragon invasion the forth... etc

  11. #11
    Human... Robot... Maniac Spacedust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hun View Post
    And Colossor awakes as the third... Dragon invasion the forth... etc
    Absolutely. It's a shame the broadcast ('intended'?) order isn't more well known; sadly as it is "just a children's cartoon", it's not very well documented. Maybe if Busta reads this, he can finally did out the rumoured broadcast list copy he has.
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  12. #12
    Hun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedust View Post
    Absolutely. It's a shame the broadcast ('intended'?) order isn't more well known; sadly as it is "just a children's cartoon", it's not very well documented. Maybe if Busta reads this, he can finally did out the rumoured broadcast list copy he has.
    Hey spacedust, if you listen to the music in Teela's quest, you can hear the early music that was used in Diomond ray of disappearance and never again... indicating it's the second episode.

  13. #13
    Eternian Jedi Knight He-Fan's Avatar
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    Chris here...

    Yeah, for me it's reasonably obvious to tell when certain very early episodes were produced, not just with the music but even with elements of the animation style, certain aspects of the voice acting, etc., as well as the evolving closing credits and the use of what I call the "blue" Filmation logo!

    Also, if you look at the season 2 episodes in production number order, they mix up episodes that were produced in 1984 and 1985!

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  14. #14
    Hun
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Fan View Post
    Chris here...

    Yeah, for me it's reasonably obvious to tell when certain very early episodes were produced, not just with the music but even with elements of the animation style, certain aspects of the voice acting, etc., as well as the evolving closing credits and the use of what I call the "blue" Filmation logo!

    Also, if you look at the season 2 episodes in production number order, they mix up episodes that were produced in 1984 and 1985!

    Take care...
    i know... it's really annoying. And the "blue" Filmation logo was changed in episode The Shapping Staff, making it episode number 11, The Cosmic comic no. 12.. etc...

  15. #15
    AKA James Eatock Busta Toons's Avatar
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    With regards to the order of episodes on the DVDs there's no wrong or right order - That end credits production list I wrote ten years ago was taken from episodes that had aired on the USA Network - And bear in mind that I had to make some alterations; like "The Shaping Staff" and "The Cosmic Comet" being rebranded with the rainbow Filmation logo, etc.

    There are numerous ways of sorting the episodes:

    * Production number order
    * Script first draft order
    * Script completion order
    * Air Date order


    Each of these lists unfortunately contradicts the other, especially where the first season is concerned - Season two (the last batch of 32 episodes) aired pretty much in production order with the obvious inclusion of the 1984 dated episodes that had been held back...

  16. #16
    Human... Robot... Maniac Spacedust's Avatar
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    Ohhh, my 1000th post - do I qualify for a gold watch? Well at very least, a glow-in-the-dark warrior's ring!

    Ironic that for the 1000th, I'm still commenting on one of the old MOTU mysteries - the original broadcast order.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hun View Post
    Hey spacedust, if you listen to the music in Teela's quest, you can hear the early music that was used in Diomond ray of disappearance and never again... indicating it's the second episode.
    Yep, I always noticed that, there's some very unfamiliar early music in there. The production order is mainly in the order that scripts were approved by Filmation (especially baring in mind that they were heavily evaluated for the children's audience, so had to go through several stages of approval). But even when episodes were nearing completion, they, as with many animated (and live action) series, were tweaked until not long towards broadcast, hence the likes of "Teela's Quest" show signs of very early production.

    Quote Originally Posted by Busta Toons View Post
    With regards to the order of episodes on the DVDs there's no wrong or right order - That end credits production list I wrote ten years ago was taken from episodes that had aired on the USA Network - And bear in mind that I had to make some alterations; like "The Shaping Staff" and "The Cosmic Comet" being rebranded with the rainbow Filmation logo, etc.
    This seems quite common of older shows; I've got episodes of 'The Dukes of Hazzard', and the likes of 'Happy Days', that are older, but re-branded with new company logos, etc.


    Well, we could always go by the ITV broadcast order I suppose - "She-Demon of Phantos" as episode 2 anyone??

    (In the style of 'The Apprentice') ... "Spacedust's quest for his ultimate episode listing order goes on."
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  17. #17
    Hun
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busta Toons View Post
    With regards to the order of episodes on the DVDs there's no wrong or right order - That end credits production list I wrote ten years ago was taken from episodes that had aired on the USA Network - And bear in mind that I had to make some alterations; like "The Shaping Staff" and "The Cosmic Comet" being rebranded with the rainbow Filmation logo, etc.

    There are numerous ways of sorting the episodes:

    * Production number order
    * Script first draft order
    * Script completion order
    * Air Date order


    Each of these lists unfortunately contradicts the other, especially where the first season is concerned - Season two (the last batch of 32 episodes) aired pretty much in production order with the obvious inclusion of the 1984 dated episodes that had been held back...
    Well, I think the order of episodes on the DVDs should have been like on your 10 year old list... btw threre is a slight error on there. The Huntsman and The Remedy had corrected Linda Gary's name from Linda Gray so those 2 episodes should be listed with the last batch of episodes from season 1. I know, I am annoying

  18. #18
    AKA James Eatock Busta Toons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hun View Post
    Well, I think the order of episodes on the DVDs should have been like on your 10 year old list...
    That's more of a personal preference that anything - In truth, there is there is no correct list, but the production order is the most accurate with regards to Filmation studios - The airdate list differs from country to country - Also the airdates themselves would be odd as He-Man aired in the UK two weeks before the US!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hun View Post
    btw threre is a slight error on there. The Huntsman and The Remedy had corrected Linda Gary's name from Linda Gray so those 2 episodes should be listed with the last batch of episodes from season 1. I know, I am annoying
    Again, this is why this list cannot be certain; my VHS copies of those episodes have those credits I listed - I've seen this happen before with aired episodes...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hun View Post
    Is there anywhere on the net a list of the episodes in broadcast order or the order they were made in?? not the production-code order.
    I know this is an old thread but wanted to let you know the correct Broadcast Aired Date Order is used via MyMovies database. http://mymovies.dk

    He-Man Aired Date Order.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/qCxzGyQ.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  20. #20
    AKA James Eatock Busta Toons's Avatar
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    Still longs wrong to me...

    "Diamond Ray of Disappearance" aired in the UK before the rest of the world on 5th September 1983...it then didn't air in the United States until September 26th...

    Also, I have the episode scripts, and according to that list some episodes aired BEFORE the episode had script had been finalized - That's just crazy!

  21. #21
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    Oh whoops, yeah it's confusing when the order of cartoons get so mixed up! (especially when a DVD of something jumbles the order further)
    Oh well, doubt it will ever get sorted out properly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The sources FileBot uses don't seem to be accurate as well.

    http://www.filebot.net/

  22. #22
    AKA James Eatock Busta Toons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JazJon View Post
    Oh whoops, yeah it's confusing when the order of cartoons get so mixed up! (especially when a DVD of something jumbles the order further)
    In my book I have the dates for the 1985 batch of episodes correctly listed - However, and this is a rather interesting point, according to a few ex-Filmation staff members, even though air dates were specified, as they were often up against it (time-wise) they wouldn't always meet the deadline - As a result any official air dates are open to a great deal of speculation...

    Also, the mix-up on the DVD releases is my fault - I had them rearrange some episodes for continuity purposes - BUT the one that still annoys me is that I suggested they place "The Problem With Power" as the LAST episode, as it has a feel of "closure" to it - Now a lot of people consider this the official last episode, when nothing could be further from the truth...

    D'oh!

  23. #23
    Heroic Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busta Toons View Post
    Also, the mix-up on the DVD releases is my fault - I had them rearrange some episodes for continuity purposes - BUT the one that still annoys me is that I suggested they place "The Problem With Power" as the LAST episode, as it has a feel of "closure" to it - Now a lot of people consider this the official last episode, when nothing could be further from the truth...

    D'oh!
    You know, I often wondered about that; many thanks for the clarification.The Problem with Power is a favourite episode - so literate and thought-provoking in tone and content. It was one of Skeletor's most vindictive and damaging (and intelligent) plots - and it almost worked, too, in that he correctly analyzed the psychology of his antagonist and acted accordingly(for once!)

    I always think that this episode in itself provides a fitting riposte to those who are obtuse enough to see the Filmation series as somehow 'childish' and that, in order to be 'adult', any portrayal of He-Man must have him wade in blood and slay wholesale. Nothing could be further from the truth.

  24. #24
    2002/DC He-Man Video guy Jukka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busta Toons View Post
    Also, the mix-up on the DVD releases is my fault
    I also blame you for rigging the votes to get "Quest for He-man" as a "top episode" in an official release.

  25. #25
    AKA James Eatock Busta Toons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scriptor View Post
    You know, I often wondered about that; many thanks for the clarification.The Problem with Power is a favourite episode - so literate and thought-provoking in tone and content. It was one of Skeletor's most vindictive and damaging (and intelligent) plots - and it almost worked, too, in that he correctly analyzed the psychology of his antagonist and acted accordingly(for once!)
    I remember in the EARLY days (late 1995) of the He-Man community many of us had not seen the entire series - I myself had missed "The Problem With Power" the first time around - So when someone came along and said "Hey, there's this episode where He-Man believes he's killed someone and throws the Sword of Power into the abyss" a few of us scoffed at the idea that Filmation would ever make THAT episode...a few weeks later we were proved VERY wrong!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scriptor View Post
    I always think that this episode in itself provides a fitting riposte to those who are obtuse enough to see the Filmation series as somehow 'childish' and that, in order to be 'adult', any portrayal of He-Man must have him wade in blood and slay wholesale. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    Well said!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jukka View Post
    I also blame you for rigging the votes to get "Quest for He-man" as a "top episode" in an official release.
    I blame myself for that, too...

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