View Poll Results: Should MVP kill off the Sorcerss?

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  • No...she is one of the best characters on MOTU.

    117 58.21%
  • No...Teela needs to become the Green Goddess and fight for the Snake Men.

    18 8.96%
  • Yes...Teela needs to take her throne.

    41 20.40%
  • I could care less.

    25 12.44%
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Thread: Killing the Sorceress

  1. #76
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    I'm pretty sure that Sorceress would have been killed off soon, had the show continued. I just finished watching the last episodes of Season 2...if you notice, the artists kept the "veins" on her...many episodes after the fight with King Hiss. And she even mentioned that she was still weak from hi venom.

    I think it sucks cause Sorceress is one of my favorites, but I'm sure she would have died in Season 2 if it had been extended/finished.

    I wouldn't have minded seeing Teela take her place either. She needed to be more of a threat anyway. The bad guys never took Teela seriously. It would have been cool to see Teela match Evil-Lyn in a magic duel.

  2. #77
    Court Magician blackhe-man's Avatar
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    I vote no don't kill her . There are ways that Teela could become a Sorceress without killing her mother . I think they should have her over hear the truth & then she could confront MAA & the Sorceress . After that they could all make up & begin her training & her connecting with her mother but before she is really trained much I think they should have someone kidnap the Sorceress . That way Teela is forced to use her powers plus it could make a great storyline He-Man & The Masters of the Universe : The search for the Sorceress .

    I remember someone madeup an evil Sorceress maybe she could challenge Teela . Fisto could also go MIA around that time & Pravus ( I hope that how it's spelled) could return
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  3. #78
    Historian of Eternia LORD FALLEN ELDOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLO-MAN View Post
    I always felt that, when Adam would become king, he should
    restore castle Grayskull (it's his, he can do that), and rule from there
    with Teela as his queen and new sorceress.
    A good final to the show in my opinion.
    I agree. I even had a forum member commission that drawing for me.
    http://kotaku.com/why-fanboys-act-like-jerks-1563379006

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  4. #79
    Mistress of the Whip! Divia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LORD FALLEN ELDOR View Post
    I agree. I even had a forum member commission that drawing for me.

    Realy? how come we never saw it
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  5. #80
    Heroic Warrior SLO-MAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divia View Post
    I would have liked that ending as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by LORD FALLEN ELDOR View Post
    I agree. I even had a forum member commission that drawing for me.
    I'm glad you like the idea .

    Quote Originally Posted by Divia View Post
    Realy? how come we never saw it
    Yeah, I'd like to see that too.
    Fictional characters are just that. Fictional. They have no personality or free will of their own.
    Writers and editors mold them to their own wants and needs.
    All we as the audience and fans can do is pick and choose our favorite interpretation and ignore the rest.

  6. #81
    Master of Good Hair Eamon's Avatar
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    Aye! He-man becomes King, Teela becomes the Sorcoress and the both rule from Greyskull!
    That's the way I always thought it was gonna go down.

    The Sorceress has to die really!
    I'm not really bothered who does it as long as it make for a good story.
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pig Boy View Post
    The Sorceress has to die really!
    I'm not really bothered who does it as long as it make for a good story.
    I agree.

    Well.... I agree assuming the story calls for Teela to become the new Sorceress. If she does, any story that involves it happening on what is meant to be viewed as permanent, is a total cop-out if the Sorceress doesn't die.

  8. #83
    Historian of Eternia LORD FALLEN ELDOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divia View Post
    Realy? how come we never saw it
    absent mindedness. but it works out because I'll debut it with my new He-Man blog in the next week.
    http://kotaku.com/why-fanboys-act-like-jerks-1563379006

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  9. #84
    Mistress of the Whip! Divia's Avatar
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    send me a link please
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  10. #85
    Heroic Warrior Trodorne's Avatar
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    i say don't kill her yet. let teela be part of the snake men for a while and get turned back. then after that kill the sorceress and have teela take her place.
    and when she dies get her to finally spill the beans that Fisto is teela's real father.
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  11. #86
    Heroic Master of Cats Judeh Simon's Avatar
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    I don't really care for the new sorceress, she was a bit too cold for me, plus I didn't like the mummy/egyptian features of her design.
    Having said that, she is still the Sorceress and she deserved better than to be bit by a snake(man) and eventually poisoned to death (if that was the plan).

    I always assumed the sorceress was much much older than she looks, and that someday when her flame is fading; she will bring in teela to be her successor...no killing needed! just a graceful passing like the one Teelana experienced with her predecesor.

    This to me is a powerful, emotional turning point in the series, without invoking my anger over the murder of the sorceress.
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  12. #87
    Grew up on a horse Baena's Avatar
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    Y'know I'm going through and watching the toon again, and there are a couple of trends here that I don't like at all.

    Calling the Sorceress cold and un-caring. Just not true. Go watch the toon again if you can.

    And the other is saying that He-Man didn't have a big enough role and that he was belittled by some of the revelations about Grayskull and He-Man's powers.

    Again, go watch the series again. He-Man is the star, Not MAA, Not Randor not King Grayskull.

    Y'all's memory must be foggy or you chose to believe this or that from discussions here.

    Go watch the toon again.
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baena View Post
    Y'know I'm going through and watching the toon again, and there are a couple of trends here that I don't like at all.

    Calling the Sorceress cold and un-caring. Just not true. Go watch the toon again if you can.

    And the other is saying that He-Man didn't have a big enough role and that he was belittled by some of the revelations about Grayskull and He-Man's powers.

    Again, go watch the series again. He-Man is the star, Not MAA, Not Randor not King Grayskull.

    Y'all's memory must be foggy or you chose to believe this or that from discussions here.

    Go watch the toon again.

    I totally agree Nate! I have been re-watching the Sorceress episodes in particular and although THE MASTERS may see her as cold, in reality she is not.

    It is conveyed pretty well I think, that she longs to be close to Teela but cannot because of her title. I am sure that if Skeletor and crew learned Teela was the daughter of the Sorceress of Grayskull, they would be very inclined to eliminate Teela and constantly target her. I totally understand Sorceress' reasoning to keep the secret until it is the right time.

    Also, He-Man is very much the star of the show lol. There's no disputing that. I am glad the rest of the characters get story time though. I would hate it if it was just about He-Man for the most part. Boring!

    I would have been fine with Sorceress dying eventually. It would have been a pivotal point in the entire series and we'd finally see Teela fulfilling her destiny after what...20+ years of waiting and anticipating it?!?! Yes, it would be sad to see Sorceress go, but I am sure it would have been done with heart, and nobility.

  14. #89
    First Class, Unlimited Mirage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baena View Post
    Y'know I'm going through and watching the toon again, and there are a couple of trends here that I don't like at all.

    Calling the Sorceress cold and un-caring. Just not true. Go watch the toon again if you can.

    I still prefer Filmation Sorceress.



    Even after Teela developed TELEPATHY, 200x Sorceress wanted nothing to do with her!

    Teela's powers are beginning to manifest themselves ... what is The Sorceress waiting for?! Will Teela have to magickally burn down the Palace or something?



    Teela needed her ... and she wasn't there.



    I can't imagine Filmation Sorceress wanting to wait until her deathbed to have a relationship with Teela, her own daughter. I'd like to think she's much more compassionate than that.
    Last edited by Mirage; August 11, 2007 at 10:46pm.

  15. #90
    Grew up on a horse Baena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
    I still prefer Filmation Sorceress.



    Even after Teela developed TELEPATHY, 200x Sorceress wanted nothing to do with her!

    Teela's powers are beginning to manifest themselves ... what is The Sorceress waiting for?! Will Teela have to magickally burn down the Palace or something?



    Teela needed her ... and she wasn't there.



    I can't imagine Filmation Sorceress wanting to wait until her deathbed to have a relationship with Teela, her own daughter. I'd like to think she's much more compassionate than that.
    I think you read it wrong, I don't agree with you. (Again! )

    She want's so badly to be with Teela but she understands her responsibilities lie with the protection of Grayskull... And where usually family holds the highest responsibility in anyone's life, in the case of the Sorceress. There is a war with EVIL and the universe is at stake, that must take higher priority. That's why soldiers go to war, that's why they leave their families... To serve a higher purpose, and ultimately to also protect and give their families the freedom to live in a peaceful way of life.

    Any father or mother that serves in a war could tell you just how "cold" the Sorceress ISN'T.

    I think the MYP toon takes the war between good and evil more seriously and realistically than Filmation ever did. And that is why I think we see so many differences between the two tellings of the MotU tale.

    It's all good if you prefer the Filmation version, that's totally cool.
    But I really do think many people who compare the two are looking too closely at one characters depiction in one show vs. the other without taking into consideration the way the stories are told.

    Sorceress has her moments. It may not always be with Teela or Man-At-Arms or He-Man/Adam, but she does have at least one whole episode where she has the time to really shine and show how caring she can be... Remember "Lessons", where she showed Orko just how important he really is.
    She sure felt an awful lot like the old Fimation Sorceress in that episode.

    And then in "History" Where she leaves Grayskull for a time... She seeks to be caring, to be compasionate to a little villiage of stinky ewok skunk natives! And there falls in love with a wounded soldier in need of care and healing. She then want's nothing more than to be a woman, a wife, a mother. If she could leave Grayskull we see what she would want and what type of person she is at her core. And that is a passionate, good, elegant and noble woman.
    Last edited by Baena; August 11, 2007 at 11:24pm.
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  16. #91
    First Class, Unlimited Mirage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baena View Post
    I think the MYP toon takes the war between good and evil more seriously and realistically than Filmation ever did.

    That's pretty much my issue with MYP in general -- It took itself too seriously.

    In Filmation MOTU, the battle against evil was there ... but it was background noise. For the most part, Eternia was at peace.


    If I want to see war, darkness, and mayhem, I'll watch CNN.
    Last edited by Mirage; August 11, 2007 at 11:30pm.

  17. #92
    Grew up on a horse Baena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
    That's pretty much my issue with MYP in general -- It took itself too seriously.

    In Filmation MOTU, the battle against evil was there ... but it was background noise. For the most part, Eternia was at peace.


    If I want to see war, darkness, and mayhem, I'll watch CNN.

    Well you're a chef, so you know that there are...
    Different strokes for different folks.

    Filmation is like a bowl of Capt. Crunch. Tastes good and enjoyable but of little to no substance.

    MYP is more like a bowl of Oatmeal, with cream and brown sugar or sliced strawberries... Something that will stick with you for most of the day without burning off after an hour.

    But ask the average joe what he wants to eat?
    Chances are the majority will take the Crunch berries.

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  18. #93
    The New Adventures of Ion HeManOfGreyskull's Avatar
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    Remember, in the filmation verse, as many of the creators said, good was the stronger side on Eternia, thus evil would be much of a threat. In MYP, we're just seeing the start of He-Man's heroism, the balance is still off because He-Man's still becoming a hero, and Skeletor hasn't been defied Grayskull six or seven times and had various other plans been thwarted by the Masters. He's still a threat, and the forces of light are still marshalling to withstand his attacks. And then, unlike FM, the Snake Men have entered the arena, and the Horde was going to as well.
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  19. #94
    First Class, Unlimited Mirage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baena View Post
    Filmation is like a bowl of Capt. Crunch. Tastes good and enjoyable but of little to no substance.

    MYP is more like a bowl of Oatmeal, with cream and brown sugar or sliced strawberries... Something that will stick with you for most of the day without burning off after an hour.


    Are we talking about that processed instant garbage you buy in the supermarket? The kind that spikes your blood sugar?


    If you REALLY want something that'll stick with you, buy whole oats (The kind that take longer to cook. Mother INHALES the stuff every morning! )
    Last edited by Mirage; August 12, 2007 at 01:11am.

  20. #95
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baena View Post
    Y'know I'm going through and watching the toon again, and there are a couple of trends here that I don't like at all.

    Calling the Sorceress cold and un-caring. Just not true. Go watch the toon again if you can.

    And the other is saying that He-Man didn't have a big enough role and that he was belittled by some of the revelations about Grayskull and He-Man's powers.

    Again, go watch the series again. He-Man is the star, Not MAA, Not Randor not King Grayskull.

    Y'all's memory must be foggy or you chose to believe this or that from discussions here.

    Go watch the toon again.
    I watch episodes of the toon almost everyday and I still don't feel he-man is the star. he's the strongest by far and the main antagonist to the bad guys but it still feels like the Man at Arms show...he seems to have more lines, he gives the orders and it just feels like it's his boat overall. mind you he-man has his moments to shine and hen he does it's great. two examples I loved are in Siren's Song when he stops Ram Man's attack with one hand and another in The Mystery of Anwat Gar - when he stops those stone statues in the corridor - the impact of that hit was really good. But it's just that it feels like He-Man should be more authoritative, sure the other characters kind of look to he-man when he's there but it just lacks that feeling, maybe because there isn't a rousing hero scor, maybe because he doesn't have as much exposition, maybe I just didn't like how Cam Clarke voiced him (he did a better job as King Grayskull) but it just didn't feel like it was his show when we saw it from the good guys side.

    I agree with you though about the sorceress, overall she took her job more seriously than anything else but it had it's costs and we saw that too I think, as well she did show some tenderness here and there.
    Last edited by krosfyah; August 12, 2007 at 01:36am.
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  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
    If you REALLY want something that'll stick with you, buy whole oats (The kind that take longer to cook. Mother INHALES the stuff every morning! )
    She should consider trying to chew and swallow it instead

    I actually don't understand why people think that He-Man was put on the back-burner in the MYP series. It seems to me that the primary difference between Filmation and MYP is the the latter actually had other characters, whereas the non-He-Man people in the Filmation series were there primarily for decorative value. In Filmation the purpose of the other characters was simply to give people more toys to buy and to make He-Man look good. MYP actually developed the characters and turned them into something more than stale, 1-dimensional characters.

    As for the Sorceress' character, I don't see her not telling Teela the truth a sign of not being compassionate. Baena says that sometimes people need to put other things ahead of their families, but I think that in this case the reason she doesn't tell Teela the truth is because she is putting Teela ahead of everyone else. She is protecting teela by keeping the truth from her. If Teela died, they could train someone else to be the sorceress, but they could never replace her daughter.

  22. #97
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Latveria View Post
    She should consider trying to chew and swallow it instead

    I actually don't understand why people think that He-Man was put on the back-burner in the MYP series. It seems to me that the primary difference between Filmation and MYP is the the latter actually had other characters, whereas the non-He-Man people in the Filmation series were there primarily for decorative value. In Filmation the purpose of the other characters was simply to give people more toys to buy and to make He-Man look good. MYP actually developed the characters and turned them into something more than stale, 1-dimensional characters.
    I don't know, I think filmation did a lot in fleshing out Teela, MAA, Marlena, Sorceress and such, it's kind of funny because in general filmation had an arrangement where Mattel didn't have final approval, filmation did so thats why we got so many good non toy characters whereas MYP did give more background and depth to more toy based characters but more episodes felt like toy commercials due to placement of toy related stuff (Skywar and Skeletors Battle sound armour, To Walk with Dragons - the dragon walker, Web of Evil - the Spitbull, of Machines and Men, the "battle armour" he-man and skeletor, out of the past - the mutant slime pit etc. ) than the filmation stuff did. I think one of the failings of filmation is also one of their strengths, that they didn't HAVE to do what mattel wanted so the toy characters kind of got pushed aside overall and new characters were created and given more depth. Filmation seemed to go too far out of its way to not make a toy commercial as such we lost out on getting depth from the toy based characters.

    Filmation also made Eternia itself a very important part of the story, MYP just had it as a backdrop. as well Ian Richter ADMITTED that they put he-man on the back burner so that they could focus on other interesting characters. so I don't think it's perception as the head mattel guy overseeing the entertainment said first hand that yes other characters got to shine over he-man because he wanted it that way. I mean I'm all for exploring other characters but really it did feel like he-man suffered for it. Similar to how in the first seaon of Justice League the made Superman really week and nearly useless just to give the other characters reason for being there - they admitted to it and said they messed up and fixed that in season 2 and beyond.

    ANYWAY reading the stuff on the main page it doesn't sound like they were going to kill the sorceress as much as they said that it's Teela's destiny to become the Sorceress and as such The Sorceress we currently have will eventually have to die.
    Last edited by krosfyah; August 12, 2007 at 01:50am.
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  23. #98
    First Class, Unlimited Mirage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Latveria View Post
    As for the Sorceress' character, I don't see her not telling Teela the truth a sign of not being compassionate. Baena says that sometimes people need to put other things ahead of their families, but I think that in this case the reason she doesn't tell Teela the truth is because she is putting Teela ahead of everyone else. She is protecting teela by keeping the truth from her. If Teela died, they could train someone else to be the sorceress, but they could never replace her daughter.

    What's to stop Skeletor, Hordak, or Evil-Lyn from probing Man-At-Arm's mind and learning (1) the secret of He-Man and (2) Teela's relationship to The Sorceress?

    MAA is the royal armourer. Surely he would be a prime target for an invading enemy (Capture him and someone like Hordak could learn the intimate details of Eternia's defenses -- and more importantly, its weaknesses.)

    That said, if Teela is so important, why aren't measures being taken to protect MAA -- someone who knows Teela's secret? If the castle IS protecting MAA, why can't it protect Teela as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
    What's to stop Skeletor, Hordak, or Evil-Lyn from probing Man-At-Arm's mind and learning (1) the secret of He-Man and (2) Teela's relationship to The Sorceress?

    MAA is the royal armourer. Surely he would be a prime target for an invading enemy (Capture him and someone like Hordak could learn the intimate details of Eternia's defenses -- and more importantly, its weaknesses.)

    That said, if Teela is so important, why aren't measures being taken to protect MAA -- someone who knows Teela's secret? If the castle IS protecting MAA, why can't it protect Teela as well?
    I imagine that he is fairly well guarded, regardless of the castle. I'd imagine that he is constantly surrounded by other warriors and guards. Because of who MAA is and his title, he is always particularly endangered, but if there was a way to keep him better protected I am sure they would do it. If it was possible to hide who he was, I bet they would. In the case of Teela, it is possible to hide her, so the best defense is to ensure that she doesn't have a big target painted on her.

    As for probing his mind... You basically bring up the reason why cartoons aren't real. In reality, the bad guys would do smart things like that and the good guys would be screwed. On the other hand, in reality, He-Man would kill Skeletor the first chance he got. However, even in their universe there might be a way to explain it. I have no idea if reading his mind was ever brought up in the show, but if it hasn't, then one could assume that he has been specially conditioned to ensure that his mind cannot be read. Maybe there has been magical conditioning too, to help with that. As for torturing him for the various secrets, they still might not get the Teela info from him because they wouldn't know to ask. They might ask about He-Man, since he might reasonably know who HM is, but the Teela thing probably wouldn't come up.

  25. #100
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Latveria View Post
    I have no idea if reading his mind was ever brought up in the show, but if it hasn't, then one could assume that he has been specially conditioned to ensure that his mind cannot be read. Maybe there has been magical conditioning too, to help with that.
    In "The Ties That Bind," when Man-At-Arms senses the precognitive abilities of Teela, he sheilds his mind, preventing her from reading his thoughts, although it is not specifically explained how he does this.

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