View Poll Results: i prefer

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  • He-Ro

    108 44.81%
  • King Grayskull

    133 55.19%
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Thread: He-Ro vs King Grayskull

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baena View Post
    I know for myself, I chalk it up to the idea that Adam isn't a full grown man yet.
    Thus when he is He-Man, He-Man is not yet at his full capacity.

    But that's just me...
    Hm... that's interesting. For some reason it never occured to me. I just assumed that when Adam transformed, he had all the strength his powers could give him. Might be a bit naive and not as experienced due to his age, of course... but I never considered the 'powers' thing.

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  2. #227
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baena View Post
    Yeah, see that's just too handy a trick to have up your sleeve though.

    Unless it's something that happens once every time the moons align in a special spot or something.

    Otherwise, why doesn't Skeletor just time travel back to his battles with Randor and learn from his mistakes and win in the end?
    Or time travel into Grayskull on a day that he learns a Sorceress is out flirting with big handed men?

    ...

    it's possible that it's something that Hordak gives him some means to do for a specific reason and has very strict conditions on it. I don't mind some aspects of time travel or ressurecting the dead if there are strict rules in place for the universe using them and it's not handled all willy nilly. the time travel thing also gives us a way for Skeletor to still be Hordak's pupil and have it fit in with the MYP way of things.

    in regards to He-ro I think he married a giantess and all the offspring after that were BIG dudes and dudettes up until KG's kids (he eschewed family tradition and married a shorty)
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  3. #228
    Grew up on a horse Baena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratosMacca View Post
    Hm... that's interesting. For some reason it never occured to me. I just assumed that when Adam transformed, he had all the strength his powers could give him. Might be a bit naive and not as experienced due to his age, of course... but I never considered the 'powers' thing.

    --Leanne
    Well, we all know that size doesn't matter right?
    Quoting Yoda there... I don't know what the rest of you take away from that comment...

    He-Man could still wield all the strength KG had. But it could still be a proportional thing too.

    Adam isn't fully grown. So He-Man as being Adam transformed isn't fully grown either.

    When Adam is fully grown... Maybe He-Man too will be more in line of KG's size?

    Again, just my idea. I don't even know what Ian and Dean thought when they chose to design KG at that size.

    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    it's possible that it's something that Hordak gives him some means to do for a specific reason and has very strict conditions on it. I don't mind some aspects of time travel or ressurecting the dead if there are strict rules in place for the universe using them and it's not handled all willy nilly. the time travel thing also gives us a way for Skeletor to still be Hordak's pupil and have it fit in with the MYP way of things.

    in regards to He-ro I think he married a giantess and all the offspring after that were BIG dudes and dudettes up until KG's kids (he eschewed family tradition and married a shorty)
    Yeah, I'm aware that time travel can be done with strict conditions, and in a world of magic, of course anything is possible.
    It may have been the ONLY way for Skeletor/Keldor to get the Key/Staff. Again... Why is it a key? Am I missing that somewhere?

    LOVE the idea that He-Ro married a giantess!
    Last edited by Baena; August 14, 2007 at 10:15am.
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  4. #229
    Heroic Warrior O'hartley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baena View Post
    Well, we all know that size doesn't matter right?
    Quoting Yoda there... I don't know what the rest of you take away from that comment...

    He-Man could still wield all the strength KG had. But it could still be a proportional thing too.

    Adam isn't fully grown. So He-Man as his own identity isn't fully grown either.

    When Adam is fully grown... Maybe He-Man too will be more in line of KG's size?

    Again, just my idea. I don't even know what Ian and Dean thought when they chose to design KG at that size.



    Yeah, I'm aware that time travel can be done with strict conditions, and in a world of magic, of course anything is possible.
    It may have been the ONLY way for Skeletor/Keldor to get the Key/Staff. Again... Why is it a key? Am I missing that somewhere?

    LOVE the idea that He-Ro married a giantess!
    I like this idea and not only on a physical way. Like you said, if Adam is 16, I would say He-Man is 16 too, with a better great and perfect strong body for his age due to the power of Grayskull, and now it is mentioned, I would see KG as a 40 something year old man, perhaps, (i'm not sure if putting a number on age is proper).

    The point is that I would KG as a more mature man than He Man, and yet he was still learning about stuff he wasn't aware of like all the power he had whithin, so imaging that He-Man has just born as a hero, but hi is still Adam and he is giving his first baby steps on the hero thing.

    He still have much more to learn on the battle field, beeing him such a noble guy, he has to achieve more power and wisdom throught the years and perhaps more size, amoung other things.

    I guess I rather think size in the past has nothing to do with size in the present and mixed genes can produce new kinda razes/ people, so I would see the present sizes are part of the Eternian Evolucion on species and I would like them to stay like that.
    Last edited by O'hartley; August 14, 2007 at 10:41am.
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  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by O'hartley View Post
    I like this idea and not only on a physical way. Like you said, if Adam is 16, I would say He-Man is 16 too, with a better great and perfect strong body for his age due to the power of Grayskull, and now it is mentioned, I would see KG as a 40 something year old man, perhaps, (i'm not sure if putting a number on age is proper).

    The point is that I would KG as a more mature man than He Man, and yet he was still learning about stuff he wasn't aware of like all the power he had whithin, so imaging that He-Man has just born as a hero, but hi is still Adam and he is giving his first baby steps on the hero thing.

    He still have much more to learn on the battle field, beeing him such a noble guy, he has to achieve more power throught the years and perhaps more size.

    I guess I rather think size in the past has nothing to do with size in the present and mixed genes can produce new kinda razes/ people, so I would see the present sizes are part of the Eternian Evolucion on species.
    I find the idea that He-Man is still growing pretty interesting as well. However, I don't think that the battlefield prowess would change really change that much because He-Man is supposed to have the power of wisdom, which will likely affect that stuff.

    I don't imagine He-Man growing any more, but that is mainly because He-Man is an adult body, even if Adam is 16. Granted, the rules of growth and whatnot likely get tossed out of the window when you're dealing with magic.

  6. #231
    Grew up on a horse Baena's Avatar
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    The more I think about it the more I kind of like the idea that He-Ro was before KG... That He-Ro was a grand or great grand father of sorts... Who married a Giantesse!

    It's a good idea Krosfyah... Makes for interesting family photos/paintings too...
    Last edited by Baena; August 14, 2007 at 12:49pm.
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  7. #232
    The New Adventures of Ion HeManOfGreyskull's Avatar
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    He-Ro should be the Master Magician of Infinita whom came to Eternia long long ago at the bequest of the Goddess to save her chosen people from the forces of Darkness. He sticks around long enough to win, and perhaps sires a child with some random jungle tribe princess and a descendant of that union turns out to be King Grayskull
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  8. #233
    Grew up on a horse Baena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeManOfGreyskull View Post
    He-Ro should be the Master Magician of Infinita whom came to Eternia long long ago at the bequest of the Goddess to save her chosen people from the forces of Darkness. He sticks around long enough to win, and perhaps sires a child with some random jungle tribe princess and a descendant of that union turns out to be King Grayskull
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  9. #234
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baena View Post
    The more I think about it the more I kind of like the idea that He-Ro was before KG... That He-Ro was a grand or great grand father of sorts... Who married a Giantesse!

    It's a good idea Krosfyah... Makes for interesting family photos/paintings too...
    thanks man! the more I think about it the more I like it too. If handled right it can add a lot to the mythology of MOTU's past. - it can also be a source of GREAT humor - I'm looking at you skelepimp for a drawing!!
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  10. #235
    Heroic Warrior Buffalo-Bill-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeManOfGreyskull View Post
    He-Ro should be the Master Magician of Infinita whom came to Eternia long long ago at the bequest of the Goddess to save her chosen people from the forces of Darkness. He sticks around long enough to win, and perhaps sires a child with some random jungle tribe princess and a descendant of that union turns out to be King Grayskull
    I really like this idea.
    I think He-Ro did seem other worldly in comparison to how PreEternians would have maybe been. And that would be a perfect tie-in with the first Mimi Comic too.

    @ Baena
    I really like the Idea of He-Man's powers being on a "sliding scale" of sorts too.
    It would allow for him to always have a little more untapped potential to build up to at all times. It adds to that infinite strength idea that makes He-Man so interesting. The Ability to always be better or stronger.
    I know in the old show it was like every time he showed off his strength, there was a later time that out did the last (Like the time he lifted Castle Grayskull).
    It could also be explained that with great power comes great responsibility... So the older, wiser and stronger Adam becomes, the Even more powerful and perfect He-Man becomes.
    It seemed to me the MYP He-Man wasn't quite as all knowing as the Filmation He-Man at times too, which I think could be explained by this idea.

    Anyway, just my thoughts.
    I love hearing all these ideas and theories being passed around.

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  11. #236
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    My vote is definitely in He-Ro's corner, but this raises a question. What is/was Eldor/Mentor's role in all this? And would a book of living spells be involved?
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  12. #237
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    Ok, so I just voted for He-Ro since he seemed to be lagging...
    But still say BOTH characters can easily co-exist, AND SHOULD.
    Still, He-Ro does have 'seniority' over King Grayskull.
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  13. #238
    Grew up on a horse Baena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onekorn View Post
    Ok, so I just voted for He-Ro since he seemed to be lagging...
    But still say BOTH characters can easily co-exist, AND SHOULD.
    Still, He-Ro does have 'seniority' over King Grayskull.
    Not unless King Grayskull and the Spirit of Grayskull are one and the same.
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  14. #239
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    KG is not the source of power (Warning: Long Post)

    I noticed some of the discussion here is about whether or not KG cheapens He-Man. I don't think that's the case. I didn't get to see the episode yet (waiting for the DVD set), so all I know about KG is based on reading the posts here. And based on that, I think he cheapens Castle Grayskull and its Power. Here are my reasons why:

    KG is just a man. A mortal man. Just like He-Man is a mortal man, and with the same powers. Castle Grayskull is supposed to hold "all the power and knowledge of the Universe" or quite a bit of it, and is seemingly timeless. To have a mere mortal man like KG be the source of Castle Grayskull's power is, even for a fantasy world like MOTU, not just stretching the boundaries of believability, but annihilating them completely. Perhaps if KG were some sort of giant, primordial diety, with a castle-shaped helmet, cursed into his current existance by some other Elder God, like Cthulu or such, and then the bowels and chambers of the Castle which hold the powers and knowledge could be parts of his body.

    However, I do have a solution which can include both He-ro and King Grayskull in a continuity:

    Wizard's apprentice Gray stumbles upon an unknown Source of Great Power and is able to tap into it. He learns to use it to become a great hero and save many people. Later generations, not knowing his name but that he was a great hero, know him only as He-ro. (There is precedence for this sort of thing in our world) Growing into a leader, be builds a fortress/temple of learning at a site near or over this Source.

    Eventually, Gray dies, and his skull is mounted in a place of honor (Who knows what sorts of ceremony Preternia had?) and the Temple of Learning come to be known as the Temple of Gray's Skull, then Temple Grayskull. Gray's Acolytes eventually become known as the Council of Wisdom, as Gray has become a thing of legend. Each successive generation of Councilors adds to the Temple, and eventually Gray's skull is replaced with the skull facade that the Castle now bears. The skull itself is relocated to a place of safety beneath the castle, and becomes the orb seen on screen. Gray's spirit has long since become one with the Source (A la Jedis and the Force) and can be seen as the Spirit of Grayskull. (Unbeknownst to many who witness this spirit how accurate the name truly is!)

    The Council has become a group of learning, and not a group of great heroes or warriors, so eventually they are taken over (either through hostile action or treaty) by a warrior king. The king turns the Temple into a true Castle, and takes the name Grayskull. Successive generations of kings also call themselves Grayskull. The last of these is the KG we see fighting the Horde. The Spirit had found a way to boost KG's natural abilities into the powers we see him using, but without KG truly understanding. (That is why he gives the speech he gives to the Council) Veena is left as Guardian and researcher of the Castle and its Secrets, and the Council relocates, in an attempt to throw off any other powerful villains seeking the secrets of the universe. Veena's recollection of the events, as she related to Teela-Na, are colored by time and her love of KG.

    The child of Veena and KG are placed in the foster care of the family that would after many generations (probably at least 5000 years) produce Miro, Randor, Keldor, and Adam. From this point, it is up to whichever continuity (Filmation or MYP) you prefer as to how the Royal familty of Eternos came to be. I prefer the Filmation Royal line as opposed to the "Randor chosen by the Council" story, as it gives Skeletor/Keldor another reason for seeking power: a claim to the throne.

    (This may bring up another thread: Succession of the Sorceress. Here is my take. As we know from how Teela-Na became Sorceress, it is not neccessarily hereditary. Each Sorceress chooses her successor for whatever reasons. The Power of Grayskull keeps the Sorceress alive and youthful until she grants the Power to her successor. But this unnatural form of life takes its toll: the longer a Sorceress lives, the more her life is connected to Grayskull, and therefore, the more she must remain IN Grayskull. Teela-Na, when first receiving the Power, used it to save her village. But when Adam came around, she was mostly stuck in the Castle, unless taking the form of Zoar.)

    Note here that the Source of the Power is still unkown, but the source of the Castle has a history. It's just that over the Millenia, the Castle has absorbed some of the Power, and is now linked to it.

  15. #240
    Master of 3D printing Neo's Avatar
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    I can't choose. They both fit in the mythology.
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  16. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Latveria View Post
    As for my preference between He-Ro and KG.... I dunno.. it's hard to say. KG and He-Man are basically equal in power, as is my understanding... However HR really kicks HM's rear when it comes to power. That nonsense about He-Man's superior power of maturity and wisdom won't seem all that impressive after HR has had a few years to learn how to use his powers. This leads to the problem of having a character who is so powerful that you can't take any danger he faces seriously *since he can beat all the bad guys, and also all the good guys, and everyone in between, with his eyes closed, using his weaker hand*. HM already had this problem, but HM with magic tossed in makes it seem really ridiculous.
    This is why I don't like Mattel's new idea of He-Ro and Grayskull teaming up to battle Hordak and King Hiss; together they would be virtually unstoppable.

    I prefer to keep King Grayskull's involvement in Preternian history at a minimum. To me, he only fought when his people and castle were under threat.

  17. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eamon View Post
    But bottom line, give me a big dude with a sword over a wizard any day!
    Seconded!
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  18. #243
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    The way I see it, He-Ro is canon in the 200x show since he was talked about in the character profiles. Apparently Hordak was pursuing He-Ro before arriving on Eternia where he decided to take over and rule it.

    I thought Grayskull's origin was pretty compelling in that searching for some magical answer he found there was none. It's sort of like Kung Fu Panda where it's all about the dragon scroll containing some sort of amazing, hidden technique. But there wasn't anything. It was just Po learning through hard work and training as well as basically just using his own talents and turning his weaknesses into a strength.

    Sometimes there isn't some mysterious, magical answer to everything. It says a lot about a character to me, that it was just a man himself that vanquished Hordak. Not a wizard or a magical sword.
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  19. #244
    Master of 3D printing Neo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    The way I see it, He-Ro is canon in the 200x show since he was talked about in the character profiles. Apparently Hordak was pursuing He-Ro before arriving on Eternia where he decided to take over and rule it.

    I thought Grayskull's origin was pretty compelling in that searching for some magical answer he found there was none. It's sort of like Kung Fu Panda where it's all about the dragon scroll containing some sort of amazing, hidden technique. But there wasn't anything. It was just Po learning through hard work and training as well as basically just using his own talents and turning his weaknesses into a strength.

    Sometimes there isn't some mysterious, magical answer to everything. It says a lot about a character to me, that it was just a man himself that vanquished Hordak. Not a wizard or a magical sword.
    The He-Ro addition to the 200x canon is an afterthought. It was probably made up to prepare us for the MotUC arch.

    I do agree on KG though.
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  20. #245
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    Uhm.......... BOTH?

  21. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    The He-Ro addition to the 200x canon is an afterthought. It was probably made up to prepare us for the MotUC arch.

    I do agree on KG though.
    ? What are you talking about?

    I mean, it seems like they had all this planned out or in their heads, like the Hordak business. So how do you know we wouldn't have seen He-Ro eventually had the show continued? My feeling was that they wanted to give a backstory or origin to everything, and they did so better than the Filmation series and New Adventures.
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  22. #247
    Master of 3D printing Neo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    ? What are you talking about?

    I mean, it seems like they had all this planned out or in their heads, like the Hordak business. So how do you know we wouldn't have seen He-Ro eventually had the show continued? My feeling was that they wanted to give a backstory or origin to everything, and they did so better than the Filmation series and New Adventures.
    I think it was Val who told us. MYP had no plans for He-ro... Him showing up in Hordaks bio was a surprise to all, even to people who were involved with MotU products from what I understood.

    You are right about MYP giving backstories to the characters, but He-ro wasn't part of the plan.
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  23. #248
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    OK, but the profiles on the DVD's don't really contradict anything in the series. So that pretty much says its canon and fair game.

    But then who included He-Ro in there if they didn't think about it at all?

    So even if its post the end of the show, you can consider He-Ro as part of the canon.

    The impression I got was that He-Ro was possibly some sort of intergalatic traveller, being, or warrior. But he also led the Horde to Eternia sorta . . . so, I wonder what you can do with that.
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  24. #249
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    The various He-Ro canons are so mixed up. It's hard to know which way's up when discussing it. I believe the whole MYP DVD profile thingie was pretty much an afterthought too. Maybe one day we may find out the truth...
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  25. #250
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    King Grayskull.

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