He-Ro vs King Grayskull

[Darth Latveria]

Let's add something to the debate
I always got the impression, that by the time He-Ro received his powers, Grasykull hadn't been built yet.
I'm sure it says somewhere that the three towers are older than Grayskull.
That would mean, that, somehow, it was He-Ro bulding the castle at some point...

Or perhaps the castle was built by someone that came after He-Ro who inherited the powers? If they wanted, they can set up the story so that more than one person is granted the powers over the years.

In an earlier post I wrote a rather lengthy thing on how I thought He-Ro and KG could be brought together into one continuity. Anyone have any comments on my suggestion with regard to that?

[wolfsfang]

Or perhaps the castle was built by someone that came after He-Ro who inherited the powers? If they wanted, they can set up the story so that more than one person is granted the powers over the years.

In an earlier post I wrote a rather lengthy thing on how I thought He-Ro and KG could be brought together into one continuity. Anyone have any comments on my suggestion with regard to that?

Okay how about this.

He-Ro came He had great strength as well as great magic ability, as we all know. He pretty much acted like He-Man meaning he saved Eternia from various evil threats, and generally protected the Royal family...the Grayskulls.

Eventually He-Ro married into the Grayskulls.

Many years later one of He-Ro's descendants. King Grayskull (yeah the one from that really cool Power of Grayskull Episode) has inherited his ancestors immense physical strength. Then one day the Horde attacks and he also learns that he has some magical ability, and using this newfound power he sends the Horde to Despondos.

As he dies he seals his soul and his power within his sword until the time the chosen one is found.

Even more years later we get Adam, prince of Eternia and descendant of Grayskull. He is giving King Grayskulls Sword of Power by the Sorceress and told that it is his destiny to use and become He-Man to once again protect Eternia from the threat of Evil.

[gbagok]

Let's add something to the debate
I always got the impression, that by the time He-Ro received his powers, Grasykull hadn't been built yet.
I'm sure it says somewhere that the three towers are older than Grayskull.
That would mean, that, somehow, it was He-Ro bulding the castle at some point...

I've gotten that impression from you guys before that you'd rather He-Ro come before KG. I'm not sure then where you were going with Zalecia, which was destroyed in He-Ro's time while it was intact in King Grayskull's time (I'm sure you had a plan for all of it though). But speaking more for my preference, I think KG works much better if he predates everything. I'd sooner say that the castle he had was destroyed and rebuilt later. I'd also turn Hordak into Horde Prime to set him at an earlier date so that Hordak can be there for the building of the Three Towers. That's serious retconning, but since the 200X continuity is probably only going to exist as it can be folded into the classic continuity or an amalgam of all the continuities, I'd go for it. Of course if I had to choose, I'd keep the Faceless One before I kept King Grayskull.

In an earlier post I wrote a rather lengthy thing on how I thought He-Ro and KG could be brought together into one continuity. Anyone have any comments on my suggestion with regard to that?

Which thread was that in, as I've said the same on here.

Why would He-Ro have a staff and He-Man have Grayskull's sword? Wouldn't the sword be passed down to everyone? I am not against the idea of different "He-Man's" for each troubled period in Eternias History, but it is way too soon to replace He-Man as the star of MoTU as we know it.

He-Ro was a wizard not a swordsman/warrior, and none of this was suggesting that there were many He-Mans, just that he's not the only heroic character of note in the history of Eternia. He-Ro was billed as "the most powerful wizard in the universe." The sword also wasn't said to be passed down to each generation, it was waiting for He-Man/Adam. If it was given to every generation, Randor would have had it. He-Ro is more like the Sorceress but as the main character and without the limitation of only having magic inside the castle. As for what happened to his staff, my guess is it was destroyed or it's hidden somewhere waiting to be used again at the right time.

[Eamon]

Yeah, I agree.
He-Ro is no more silly than most of the MOTU names.

True! But for me it's one silly name too far!

And I totally forgot about the whole He-Ro and Powers of Greyskull vibe.
Dinosuars on Eternia??? Earth like Dinosuars on Eternia??
It makes so little scence I don't know where to start.
It all seems a bit desperate to me.

Tytus and Megator were cool but they weren't part of the POG line were they?!

[krosfyah]

True! But for me it's one silly name too far!

And I totally forgot about the whole He-Ro and Powers of Greyskull vibe.
Dinosuars on Eternia??? Earth like Dinosuars on Eternia??
It makes so little scence I don't know where to start.
It all seems a bit desperate to me.

Tytus and Megator were cool but they weren't part of the POG line were they?!

they were. I liked the dinos myself they were eternia-ized in some way by making them cyborg like. I think it could have been fun if done right - man i'm getting deja vu BAD right now.

[Baena]

Y'all could guess I'd prefer King Grayskull, and you'd be right.

I like He-Ro too, I can see them both existing in the grand scheme of things.

I'm with you Divs... I can't see how KG cheapens HM.

Or more so and more honestly, I like King Grayskull so I block out any attempt to try and understand the other camp on the matter. I love the nod to the old more barbaric days.

They can see it a cheapening... I see it as an enhancement.
One man's treasure is another man's junk. Let it be so!

The man was married to a hot sorceress! And surrounded by amazing warriors that carried his legacy and power after he was gone. Not to say He-Ro could'nt also have had cool things too, but I never got to know He-Ro, and from what I can tell, there isn't a ton of story there to fall in love with, so... Maybe given time, He-Ro will have a chance to come into his own... or get a cartoon episode devoted to him?

And for the record, King Grayskull was more than just one Episode... After that he was mentioned at least once more as He-Man dueled with King Hsss, and I'm sure had the story gone on, KG would've been mentioned and made more important as the series went on, what with the Horde coming back.

[O'hartley]

And for the record, King Grayskull was more than just one Episode... After that he was mentioned at least once more as He-Man dueled with King Hsss, and I'm sure had the story gone on, KG would've been mentioned and made more important as the series went on, what with the Horde coming back.

Now you mention it, outside the panel Ian said something about Keldor beeing related to King Grayskull somehow and my jaw just dropped down to the floor while I was hearing that. It was just no more time to keep asking, but for that info I would think too KG would have had more importance than just one episode.

[TheShadow]

I'm with you Divs... I can't see how KG cheapens HM.

He is just a beefier / taller version of He-Man. He-Man's "unique" look for the series is now gone. He is the main character. To me, this cheapens the entire idea of He-Man that he is just some carbon copy basically of some dude named King Grayskull. At least He-Ro has his own look.

Now you mention it, outside the panel Ian said something about Keldor beeing related to King Grayskull somehow and my jaw just dropped down to the floor while I was hearing that. It was just no more time to keep asking, but for that info I would think too KG would have had more importance than just one episode.

Keldor is Randor's brother, so of course he would be related to King Grayskull. They revealed that they were going to use the Keldor/Randor aspect awhile back.

[Tallstar]

He is just a beefier / taller version of He-Man. He-Man's "unique" look for the series is now gone. He is the main character. To me, this cheapens the entire idea of He-Man that he is just some carbon copy basically of some dude named King Grayskull.

This is exactly how I feel.

On top of that, it felt like they were trying to make him into Adora ala "The Stone in the Sword."

[O'hartley]

Keldor is Randor's brother, so of course he would be related to King Grayskull. They revealed that they were going to use the Keldor/Randor aspect awhile back.

I'm just wondering how many generations would be after KG to get to Adam/He-Man.

I mean we allready know:
1. Adam/He-Man
2. King Randor and older half-brother Skeletor/Keldor
3. King Miro
4. ?... Could this be the place for King Grayskull? Or perhaps there would be more between Miro and Grayskull?

[TheShadow]

I'm just wondering how many generations would be after KG to get to Adam/He-Man.

I mean we allready know:
1. Adam/He-Man
2. King Randor and older half-brother Skeletor/Keldor
3. King Miro
4. ?... Could this be the place for King Grayskull? Or perhaps there would be more between Miro and Grayskull?

Good call. I never really took it as King Grayskull replacing He-Ro, I just felt that they should have used He-Ro since he is an already existing character instead of creating a new one.

[krosfyah]

King Grayskull diminsihes He-man the same way Kull diminishes Conan - that is to say he DOESN'T!

Personally though I like KG to have no 'special powers' only to be a great warrior, which he basically was prior to the whole POG episode. I think it would have been neat to see some of the mini comic stories (the alcala ones) adapted to be KG's adventures. they'd have to be altered a bit but it would have been cool. make KG more of a barbarian warrior with greater than average strength and determination, but not possessing He-Man's most powerful man in the universe level strength.

[Eamon]

they were. I liked the dinos myself they were eternia-ized in some way by making them cyborg like. I think it could have been fun if done right - man i'm getting deja vu BAD right now.

Eternia is full of great massive beasts so Dinosaurs make no scence.

Made for cool enough playable toys though so i guess that's what counts.


With regard to the He-ro thing, he's a bit dorky and silly but there's no reason why King Greyskull can't co exist.

Didn't MVC have something planned with all that stuff?
Was KG considered in any of that plotline?

[O'hartley]

Good call. I never really took it as King Grayskull replacing He-Ro, I just felt that they should have used He-Ro since he is an already existing character instead of creating a new one.

OK, but now KG has been created and exposed to the audience, so... If you'd have licenses and permision to use both, who would you put before King Miro in history, Hero or KG?

I mean how would you think you would deal with both? Will u use them both in different times of history or would you look for the way for them to coexist in the same time?

[Baena]

He is just a beefier / taller version of He-Man. He-Man's "unique" look for the series is now gone. He is the main character. To me, this cheapens the entire idea of He-Man that he is just some carbon copy basically of some dude named King Grayskull. At least He-Ro has his own look.

And I see your argument, but to me, He-Man looks as he does as I look like my great grandfather and so on and so on.
It's a family thing... Heck they even used Cam to voice both KG and HM.
I don't view that as a cheapening thing for the HM character. I see it as a reality of family genes. He-Man is who he is because of Grayskull such as I am who I am because of my fathers and mothers before me.

But honestly we've beat this discussion out many times in many threads long ago. We know each others stance on this. I see no point in kicking this horse again.

Keldor is Randor's brother, so of course he would be related to King Grayskull. They revealed that they were going to use the Keldor/Randor aspect awhile back.

Yep. We know that Keldor and Randor are brothers. So the revelation here or confirmation is that Adam is related to KG through his father, Randor.
(There was some debate around here as to whether or not Adam was related to KG through the non-earth MYP Marlena or through Randor... Now we know.) But I guess that would leave us hard core geeks to wonder if the KG lineage goes through King Miro or through his Queen to Randor and Keldor?

I also have grown to like this idea that Keldor is related to KG, because it adds to his subconscious or even genetic urges to hold the power of Grayskull, let alone his more powerful desires to rule the universe.

[O'hartley]

But I guess that would leave us hard core geeks to wonder if the KG lineage goes through King Miro or through his Queen to Randor and Keldor?

I guess it would have to be through King Miro, since Randor and Keldor are sons of his, but they have different mother, so they are not sons of Veena and KG.

[mermaidliz]

I'm just wondering how many generations would be after KG to get to Adam/He-Man.

I mean we allready know:
1. Adam/He-Man
2. King Randor and older half-brother Skeletor/Keldor
3. King Miro
4. ?... Could this be the place for King Grayskull? Or perhaps there would be more between Miro and Grayskull?

In the beginning of She-Ra's episode King Miro's Journey, we saw a brief description (accompanied with pictures) of the kings of Eternia previous to Randor (I think they were four or five). As far as I remember, King Grayskull was not mentioned so that's definately a "hole" in the 200X plot if you ask me...

[krosfyah]

In the beginning of She-Ra's episode King Miro's Journey, we saw a brief description (accompanied with pictures) of the kings of Eternia previous to Randor (I think they were four or five). As far as I remember, King Grayskull was not mentioned so that's definately a "hole" in the 200X plot if you ask me...

nope because in the POG episode it was mentioned that KG was forgotten, as well as the fact that MYP and filmation don't share continuity.

[mermaidliz]

nope because in the POG episode it was mentioned that KG was forgotten, as well as the fact that MYP and filmation don't share continuity.

Still though, what 's that supposed to mean...they share no continuity? Then that would entail that I could just go on and create a new He-Man and She-Ra that has nothing to do with the previous versions and make up totally different stories and background e.g. Adam was actually a kidnapped baby from Krypton before it was destroyed and hence, a twin brother to Superman! Puh-lease! Normally, some kinda continuity always needs to exist.

[TheShadow]

OK, but now KG has been created and exposed to the audience, so... If you'd have licenses and permision to use both, who would you put before King Miro in history, Hero or KG?

I mean how would you think you would deal with both? Will u use them both in different times of history or would you look for the way for them to coexist in the same time?

I would put He-Ro before King Grayskull, dealing with towers and what not -- much like what Emiliano mentioned earlier. In fact, the whole King Grayskull having "power" issue could be dealt with nicely during a "death of He-Ro" type scene.

He-Man is who he is because of Grayskull such as I am who I am because of my fathers and mothers before me.

I'd prefer He-Man to be his own unique individual and not a copy of a previous ancestor. I don't feel I am who I am because of my fathers and mothers before me. Yes, they raised me, but I was quite concious of everything around me and hold my own values, ideals, and ethics.

He-Man is the 'iconic' character of Masters of the Universe. He is supposed to be the most powerful man in the universe. To find out that his power comes from some dude who just harnessed the power that was always just "within" him is just lame to me. There is so much more you can do when you have a fantasy/sci-fi series like Masters. AND when you already have a horde of pre-existing characters that could have been tapped in to, I don't really like the idea of creating new characters just to create them.

(There was some debate around here as to whether or not Adam was related to KG through the non-earth MYP Marlena or through Randor... Now we know.) But I guess that would leave us hard core geeks to wonder if the KG lineage goes through King Miro or through his Queen to Randor and Keldor?

They had completely other ideas for Marlena, she isn't Adam's connection to KG.

[krosfyah]

Still though, what 's that supposed to mean...they share no continuity? Then that would entail that I could just go on and create a new He-Man and She-Ra that has nothing to do with the previous versions and make up totally different stories and background e.g. Adam was actually a kidnapped baby from Krypton before it was destroyed and hence, a twin brother to Superman! Puh-lease! Normally, some kinda continuity always needs to exist.

Well they have some key elements in common but in the MYP one Miro wasn't a king, Hordak wasn't on eternia at the same time as Randor and co, Sorceress apparently married fisto (yuck for that story) and marlena wasn't from earth.

we'll call it MOTU elseworlds then.

[O'hartley]

I would put He-Ro before King Grayskull, dealing with towers and what not -- much like what Emiliano mentioned earlier. In fact, the whole King Grayskull having "power" issue could be dealt with nicely during a "death of He-Ro" type scene.

I see. Now... could it be that Miro is KG and Venna's son?

[TheShadow]

we'll call it MOTU elseworlds then.

Love that idea. For some, it would be a great way to think of it if one is die-hard classic Filmation only.

I was at least happy they kept Miro.

[krosfyah]

I see. Now... could it be that Miro is KG and Venna's son?

I don't think so since it was said that King Grayskull was around eons ago or some such and has been forgotten by eternians. which means he had to have lived quite a long while ago.

Shadow - yeah things are easier to take when you just chalk it up to an elseworld. I too was glad to see Miro, one thing I love about MOTU is the little teases at stories in the past, makes for such a rich story.

[O'hartley]

I don't think so since it was said that King Grayskull was around eons ago or some such and has been forgotten by eternians. which means he had to have lived quite a long while ago.

Got it!

I too was glad to see Miro, one thing I love about MOTU is the little teases at stories in the past, makes for such a rich story.

Ditto.

I wish they could bring back the story where it was cut. I guess I would love to see what's next more than to start all over again.