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Thread: MOTUC and Chase Figures

  1. #76
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmb410s View Post
    If Mattel has to do variants ( which they always do ) it should go like this:

    1: A variant is NEVER the new figure for the month
    2: New Figure - you can order 3
    3: Variant figure ordered at the same time limited to 1
    The problem here is that already in this thread fans are saying they'd like to be able to buy TWO of each figure, including any variants.

    Again, take Evil Lyn.
    Since this is MOTUC, the standard version will probably be the yellow version.
    But people who are more fans of the 200x look will prefer the gray/purple version, and so what happens if 200x fans want 1 to display loose and 1 to have MOC?

    Again, goes back to how many of each variant do you make, which is why I think polling at Mattycollector.com (the only place you can buy MOTUC so it's not like random people would be voting) is the best way to find out what level of interest there would be for each variant.

    Because that interest is going to vary depending on what the change is.

    For example, a 200x colors Evil Lyn will likely be more desirable than a minor paint change. So for a 200x Lyn I'd probably set the limit at two per person, not one.

    Heck, they could even combine variants AND chase figures.

    Example:

    Regular He-Man : Limit of 3
    Wonder Bread He-Man : Limit based on polling results
    Gray Armband He-Man : Chase figure, sent randomly to those who order at least one Regular He-Man and opt for the chance to get one

    It could be an easy thing to do, just check "Don't send me any chase figures" and then you're out of the running. Simple.

    As pointed out, many ordered 2 KG's in hopes of getting one of each, while others don't want the statue version.
    If they had the "Don't send me a KG statue version" option, that would've eased a lot of collectors minds who want only the standard version.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by motuxmen View Post
    You may not care about the value of your collection, but there are lots of people that do. The fact that things on ebay sell for more then in the stores is a testament to that fact. The fact that their are scalpers is also evidence to that.
    No, the fact that it is on ebay shows that there is a problem with supply and demand. Limited supply coupled with demand means that the figure will be available for others to buy at a high price. It has nothing to do with what a collector values their collection at.

    Yes, when the figures are in the store you have a choice of which figure you got. But that was only because that retail outlet bought cases of the figures. Someone else paid for the random packed figures. This line is differnt then any other line currently available in a lot of ways. So things that work in other lines might not work here. Mattel does not have the cushion of a retailer preordering their product and that retailer having to worry about it selling or acting like peg warmers. Mattel is assuming all the cost and all the risk. So, I have no problem with how the chase's/variants have been handled so far (King G).
    Mattel is also mitigating risk by not having a middleman to get it to retail. So, they have a larger potential profit margin. This line is also about heavy reuse of parts, again lowering Mattel's risk because they are reusing molds.

    I know of a dozen plus people that bought at least one more figure then they normally would have just for the chance to get the Statue version. If Mattel were to make a limited variant and offer it like a lot of people here are saying, by allowing you to choose, yes it would sell out. I have no doubt of that. But if you random/short pack it then I am sure ALL the figures would sell out.
    When individuals buy more to get the shortpacked/randompacked character all they do is reduce availability for people who want one. There are a lot of fans who wanted a greyskull and couldn't get one and didn't care about the statue vs normal. All those normals that people get will end up being sold off and the minimum price will be what they paid, so if you want one now, you have to effectively pay shipping twice. Over the long run, this will turn fans off of the line if they can't easily get it. That was a major problem with the 200x line, few could get the characters they wanted without paying additional aftermarket prices.

    Its kinda like sports cards. Everyone wants a Mike Jordan or Ladanian Tomlinson auto card, but if you had a choice between that and some common 3rd string guy, no one would buy the common and thus those cards would not sell and the overall sales for a series of cards tanks. I know its not exactly the same here, but its a good analogy.
    The better analogy here would be to put the expected heavy hitters in a case and require you to buy a case in order to get the chase. Then your figures that wouldn't be expected to sell as well will still get sold. This is also why build a figures have been suggested, which is a much better way to ensure that figures get sold out.

    It does make it harder for people that want the variants, chases or even the regular figure. But its half the fun. We are already loosing out on the "hunt" and this at least lessens that lose, for me anyway. Id love to get every variant, chase, or different paint app, but I also understand that Mattel needs to make money, they need to increase secondary market value to keep interest from general "collectors" high. If a person collects toys just to collect and not for personal love of a line they want usually want stuff that will maintain value over the long haul. Those folks wont buy a line that has little to no value. But, if you get a chance to spend 20, 40, 60 dollars and get a figure worth 500 dollars you will bring in people that might not otherwise buy into it. Most of us die hard fans are gonna spend the same amount no matter what...its the other people that Mattel needs to interest, and its those people we all should want to interest.
    I don't see why me having to spend $500 on a figure makes my collection any better than anyone else's. It certainly isn't fun to have to spend that kind of money if I want to get a figure to complete my collection. Why should I be punished in this way? Lines that do this drive more people away then they attract. Very few toys hold value for any extended period of time and for the most part are a horrible investment if you're doing it for value. Collections (of anything) should be done because you like what you're buying. If you're buying it expecting it to raise in value, then you should consider investing in the stock market or mutual funds, you will get a much better return.

    I due understand everyones points, and they are all valid. Nothing is gonna make everyone happy. I am just saying that for once, I agree with the current system to sell the figures (chase ones Imean) given that its an online only line.

    I due think that the system mentioned earlier where you have an option of buying from two pools, the one with just the regular figure and the one with a chance to get the variant or regular figure is a great way to easy some peoples minds while still trying to continue the current system. I think that would be a great question to pose to Mattel and Toy G Jr in the Q&A.
    I don't see any benefit to an option where you buy from a pool with a guarantee of a normal or another pool where you have a random chance at the chase. I don't see the point in this at all. If you're going to have a variant figure, you should be able to order it. If Mattel doesn't know how many of a variant to make, they should switch to a pre-order + % system where they have to get so many orders for a figure before they produce it. If you go with the random chance of a chase, you end up with people buying that pool of figures out and then scalping them... it again means that the fan who wanted the chase or variant pays through the nose unnecessarily.
    Last edited by ash; July 29, 2008 at 06:45pm.

  3. #78
    Heroic Warrior Eric's Avatar
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    This is a tough situation for Mattel.

    Randomly inserting chase figures with the regular line seems like a money-making ploy alone. If there's a chase, and you want it, you'll likely order more than one figure you don't want doubles of in hopes of increasing your likelihood of getting the chase. That doesn't seem right to me.

    However, making the chase readily available, even in short supply, sort of defeats the purpose. After all, you're not guaranteed a chase when you buy from a store, so they don't want to guarantee you one at MattyCollector or it loses its appeal.

    I think putting an option on your order form where you can select if you want to be eligible for a chase or not would help if they want to randomly insert them. "Check here if you're OK with possibly receiving a chase figure" or "Check here if you don't want a chase figure to possibly be inserted in your order" kind of thing.

    I'm not wild about chase figures, but I understand their purpose. I'd prefer paint variants only that are 50/50 inserted with an option to choose (sort of like the Firestorm and Aquaman variants in the DCUC line).

  4. #79
    Eternian Economist Chaundon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post

    Heck, they could even combine variants AND chase figures.

    Example:

    Regular He-Man : Limit of 3
    Wonder Bread He-Man : Limit based on polling results
    Gray Armband He-Man : Chase figure, sent randomly to those who order at least one Regular He-Man and opt for the chance to get one
    Dude how much money do you think I have? I would require ALL of those and getting them all once a month would leave me with no money to continue buying vintage MOTU items!
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  5. #80
    Masta of da Fryin' Pan PanMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ash View Post
    I don't see any benefit to an option where you buy from a pool with a guarantee of a normal or another pool where you have a random chance at the chase. I don't see the point in this at all. If you're going to have a variant figure, you should be able to order it. If Mattel doesn't know how many of a variant to make, they should switch to a pre-order + % system where they have to get so many orders for a figure before they produce it. If you go with the random chance of a chase, you end up with people buying that pool of figures out and then scalping them... it again means that the fan who wanted the chase or variant pays through the nose unnecessarily.
    This system is essentially the same as the current one, except people who only want the standard version are guaranteed to get it. I know, it's not a huge problem solver, but it would be a nice option for those who just wanted the standard King Grayskull (me), for instance. This isn't the only change I would make, but again, it's a nice option to have.
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  6. #81
    Soft.Delicious.Nutritious Matt79's Avatar
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    For some reason I like the idea of limited randomly packed variants. I'd like to see variants, that stick to the variants from the 80's toyline. For example Como Cobra Kahn, Black Face Grizzlor or blue/red winged Stratos. Of course they shouldn't make a variant from each figure. And stand-alone figures like Faker, WB He-man or so, shouldn't count as a variant. I also don't want extreme variants, that have nothing to do with the original figures, like a red Mer-Man or so. Randomly packed variants Would make collecting/ordering more interesting. And they are something special. I'm not sure that I want variants, that could simply be ordered beside the normal figures. That's just boring. Maybe there could be a seperate button in the order window, where you can apply for a randomly packed variant or not. That's my opinion.

  7. #82
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motuxmen View Post
    they need to increase secondary market value to keep interest from general "collectors" high. If a person collects toys just to collect and not for personal love of a line they want usually want stuff that will maintain value over the long haul. Those folks wont buy a line that has little to no value. But, if you get a chance to spend 20, 40, 60 dollars and get a figure worth 500 dollars you will bring in people that might not otherwise buy into it. Most of us die hard fans are gonna spend the same amount no matter what...its the other people that Mattel needs to interest, and its those people we all should want to interest.
    Mattel should absolutely NOT take this approach, as it has, in every case I can think of, led to disaster. The only way for this line to survive is to aim it at a stable market, namely collectors, not speculators. The approach you're advocating here is precisely why there's barely a comic book industry (or a housing market, for that matter). Speculators come in and buy until the next big thing attracts them, and leave everything in ruin when they depart en masse. Comic book companies catered to this market for a short time, and then was left barely standing when they left, as the same things that attracted speculators drove the regular collectors and readers away. THey wound up with an industry in far worse shape than it was before the speculator boom, something they've never recovered from. This is same line of thinking as the Star Trek "1701" strategy that hastened the end of Playmate's Trek line.

    If speculators come and spend money, fine, but making this market any kind of major focus is the worst strategy I can imagine.
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  8. #83
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
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    Couldn't agree more, Scott.

    Anytime anyone starts talking about how much such-and-such is worth versus what they paid for it, my eyes totally glaze over.

    My being in support of variants or chase figures has NOTHING to do with speculators or re-selling potential, and EVERYTHING to do with MotU fans getting some cool different figures they wouldn't be able to otherwise.

  9. #84
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post
    Couldn't agree more, Scott.
    Anytime anyone starts talking about how much such-and-such is worth versus what they paid for it, my eyes totally glaze over.
    My being in support of variants or chase figures has NOTHING to do with speculators or re-selling potential, and EVERYTHING to do with MotU fans getting some cool different figures they wouldn't be able to otherwise.
    Exactly. I wouldn't mind Mattel taking the opportunity here to get more figures out and still allowing me to get what I ordered. Offer He-Man and Faker the same month, with Faker as a variant I can order seperately. Same with Teela and the Goddess. Or Duncan and a Royal Guardsman. Just offer them the same month and give me a chance to buy both. I don't care about who's harder to get or who's more valuable. And neither should Mattel.
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  10. #85
    The Original! guitargod694's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Exactly. I wouldn't mind Mattel taking the opportunity here to get more figures out and still allowing me to get what I ordered. Offer He-Man and Faker the same month, with Faker as a variant I can order seperately. Same with Teela and the Goddess. Or Duncan and a Royal Guardsman. Just offer them the same month and give me a chance to buy both. I don't care about who's harder to get or who's more valuable. And neither should Mattel.
    Yeah, I have to agree with the grumpy old dragon here.

    The way to handle variants is to make them available to purchase separately the same month as the "regular" figure.

    Additionally, if they want to make the variants only available to members of a collectors club or whatever, that's fine with me too. As long as I have the option of putting one in my cart, paying for it, and having it shipped to me; I'm all for it.

    I don't see any reason that we should be reliant on random chance to get a variant with a line where you can only buy two of any one figure. I also don't see a reason Mattel would want to encourage a secondary market for these things.
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by PanMan View Post
    This system is essentially the same as the current one, except people who only want the standard version are guaranteed to get it. I know, it's not a huge problem solver, but it would be a nice option for those who just wanted the standard King Grayskull (me), for instance. This isn't the only change I would make, but again, it's a nice option to have.
    This is a whole new line. The resounding no and the reaction of Mattel at the panel at the convention was enough to convince me that they are willing to try and make this line work for everyone to get figures they want. After the resounding no they said the one exception would be how this exclusive was handled as it was done in advance before they knew how the reaction would be.

  12. #87
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    Reiterating others, but my 2 cents - chase figures and variants, for me, always related to production changes or dealer incentive.

    Being a completionist, I find it frustrating collecting anything when I'm missing something overall. For example, I missed the KG orders, and now find it doubtful I will even collect the new line unless I'm able to grab KG and his variant for a decent price on ebay.

    Gone are the days where I would spend a lot of money on toy collecting; I'm 30 with a family to support... so I lose interest when availability for a complete collection comes down to ebay scalper prices.

    Another example: I was collecting the Transfomers classics line - awesome. Then they released the ridiculously expensive convention exclusives... which became even MORE ridiculously expensive on ebay. To add insult to injury, one the exclusives was a fan-favorite character. Since then, I've stopped collecting the line.

    With Mattel gearing this new line towards adult collectors, one would think they might heed the misgivings and suggestions expressed on these boards. Some are trivial, but many will earn Mattel more money in the long run. Again, just my thoughts.

  13. #88
    Heroic Warrior Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    Exactly. I wouldn't mind Mattel taking the opportunity here to get more figures out and still allowing me to get what I ordered. Offer He-Man and Faker the same month, with Faker as a variant I can order seperately. Same with Teela and the Goddess. Or Duncan and a Royal Guardsman. Just offer them the same month and give me a chance to buy both. I don't care about who's harder to get or who's more valuable. And neither should Mattel.
    I like this idea a lot. It makes sense.

    Faker is awesome and one of my favorite characters, but to release him alone as one month's figure leaves a little to be desired given the fact he's just a repaint with Skeletor's armor so he'd have no new parts at all. I'd be happy just to get him at all, but given how similar some of the characters are, and given the fact Mattel is reusing so many parts and thus saving money, they could throw us a bone and offer characters like you've mentioned along with their regular counterparts.

  14. #89
    Jealous & zealous! RocketPunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    I like this idea a lot. It makes sense.

    Faker is awesome and one of my favorite characters, but to release him alone as one month's figure leaves a little to be desired given the fact he's just a repaint with Skeletor's armor so he'd have no new parts at all. I'd be happy just to get him at all, but given how similar some of the characters are, and given the fact Mattel is reusing so many parts and thus saving money, they could throw us a bone and offer characters like you've mentioned along with their regular counterparts.
    You never know, Mattel may give Faker a re-sculpted chest instead of just putting a sticker there like the old figure.

    I do agree that he would be better as an extra figure alongside the normal one-a-month character.

  15. #90
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    I see everyones points and a lot of them are good ideas. I am basing what i have said off of Mattel's history, MOTUs history, and the current collector market.

    Not everyone the buys or sells figures on ebay is a "scalper", nor is everyone that has a "value" on their collection. And yes, investing in the stock market may be a better investment (actually sometimes maybe not lol), but I wasnt looking at it from that point of view. If you buy, lets say in october, He-man and you pay 30 bucks with shipping. Then in March the value of the figure with shipping on ebay is 20 dollars, doesnt that irratate you? Im not rich, well at least not yet, so how much I spend on these things is something I concern myself with, as is the secondary value. And I am a pretty die hard MOTU fan.

    Ive seen a lot of people complain that they dont like variants or chase's becuase they cant out right order it. And its not fair to collectors, or to us the fans. That those things increase "scalpers". That this line is gonna have limited production numbers and its online only so we need an option to choose since we have limited quantities to order. THose things are all great and well. Through MOTU's history there have always been chase figures. We have never had the option of choosing which figures we get. Yes, if it was on the shelves we could buy it, but there never was a promise any of them would be there. Thats true with the original line and the 200x line. And people still bought those lines. Collectors and kids. It was especially true with the 80's line as it seemed almost every figure had multiple variants and chase's, from black blood mosquitor to black face grizzlor to the skelys with half boots. And in 200x you had chase everything as well. The chase he-man figure had like 10 produced it seems. And no one had a chance to order those outright. And it wasnt until the "variants" and chase figures started to out number the regular figures that the 200x line tanked.

    Yes speculators can cause huge problems in any industry. But those are not the people I am talking about. I am talking about your general collector who is gonna need some reason other then the one we have (love of MOTU) to buy into this line. I am not saying variants alone would bring millions of people over, but I dont think its gonna hurt.

    Yes it would be great to be able to order everything I want and get it. For me personally, being a completist it would be the best option. But I also would miss the hunt. And yes, it would save me money. Probably lots. and it might limit scalpers. And it might make the die hard motu fan happy. But it would also diminish my interest in the line a bit. A lot of the excitment and anticipation is gonna go away. I would know exactly what I am getting for like 6 months. Yes I would be excited to get them when they came, but i would still feel something is missing. I know thats just me, but I doubt I am alone in this feeling.

    As for my baseball card analogy....yes you could always go to another store to buy more cards. You could buy every pack of cards you could find in every store you went to and all of them on ebay, and you might not get what you are looking for. Just becuase you can by more doesnt mean you are gonna get the card you are looking for. Yes I know this line is gonna have limited production runs (as of Mattels latest info, which may change) and you can only order so many. But if you only have 2 different figures, or say one without a chase or variant then you really only need to order one. Yes i know a lot of people would want more, for customizing and one MOC one loose, but your average fan would only order one, or one of each. But if you can order 3 or more and you have two different figures but one is random/short packed then that same person is gonna think about ordering another one or two, just on the off chance they might get the "rare" one. (and you know if something is "rare" it is gonna increase interest from the casual person)

    Look, I know most of us here (except me aparently) are against chase, or doing chase at chance or not being able to choose or whatever. But I am just stating my opinion..as well as what I think may happen based on Mattels history. A history which includes one figure in the line we are discussing that had a variant that was short packed and was random order. Yes, there were probably "scalpers" that bought into this line. But the figure world is abuzz right now about the MOTUC line, and in no short part because of the variant and its immediate value. Does it suck for the average joe if he wanted a statue KG but didnt get it, sure. Does it suck for a guy that wanted the regular version and got a statue..i doubt it. As most people that have a regular would easily trade it for the variant, and throw in some other things like cash or their first born. And that type of interest, from scalpers, from average joes, from the action figure community is exactly what MOTUC needs, even if it sucks for some people. If the line sells out and contiunues to do so then the line continues. ANd thats what I want, even more then me getting every figure despite me being a completist.

  16. #91
    Overlord of Evil stevetor's Avatar
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    I just don't know...leaving a variant as a "check option" seems lasck luster to me.
    It literally leaves it up to chance/the hands of a Mattel warehouse employee wether you get a chase figure or not.

    if they are going to make them, they should make them available to the hardcore fans, who are presumably the people who would want them anyway.
    Make them available only to those participating in a subscription service.

    then it's a gurantee all around: for Mattel that there will be support, and for the fans that will want so desperatly to have one.
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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by motuxmen View Post
    Not everyone the buys or sells figures on ebay is a "scalper", nor is everyone that has a "value" on their collection. And yes, investing in the stock market may be a better investment (actually sometimes maybe not lol), but I wasnt looking at it from that point of view. If you buy, lets say in october, He-man and you pay 30 bucks with shipping. Then in March the value of the figure with shipping on ebay is 20 dollars, doesnt that irratate you? Im not rich, well at least not yet, so how much I spend on these things is something I concern myself with, as is the secondary value. And I am a pretty die hard MOTU fan.
    The only way that would irritate me is if Mattel were selling them on ebay and if the line was dead by March. This always happens. That's no different than buying your figures when they first come out on the shelves to make sure you get the whole wave, then a few weeks later seeing that the figures go on sale in the Sunday ad.

    I'm not rich either (at least not yet, if you know someone who wants to buy a robotics company, let me know ). I would like to have a complete collection while spending as little as possible, which is why I don't want to shop ebay.

    Ive seen a lot of people complain that they dont like variants or chase's becuase they cant out right order it. And its not fair to collectors, or to us the fans. That those things increase "scalpers". That this line is gonna have limited production numbers and its online only so we need an option to choose since we have limited quantities to order. THose things are all great and well. Through MOTU's history there have always been chase figures. We have never had the option of choosing which figures we get. Yes, if it was on the shelves we could buy it, but there never was a promise any of them would be there. Thats true with the original line and the 200x line. And people still bought those lines. Collectors and kids. It was especially true with the 80's line as it seemed almost every figure had multiple variants and chase's, from black blood mosquitor to black face grizzlor to the skelys with half boots.
    It was different in the 80's. First off, most of those things were production changes (like Skeletor boots) and they weren't intentionally placed in there to be a variant, they just happened when a new production line didn't make things exactly the same. At that time, there was hardly a store you could go in that didn't have a He-man section. There are only 3 figures from the first line that I would even consider "intentional" variants. (Man-E-Weapons, Black Blood Mosquitor, and Black Faced Grizzlor... there were things at the time like Camo Kahn, but he wasn't something Mattel US had designed, and at the time no one really knew). That's also a big difference. How many of us as kids knew that there were figures released only in Europe, even those of us who grew up in Europe may not have known that.

    And in 200x you had chase everything as well. The chase he-man figure had like 10 produced it seems. And no one had a chance to order those outright. And it wasnt until the "variants" and chase figures started to out number the regular figures that the 200x line tanked.
    The 200x line was on shaky ground to begin with, when Wave 1 Heroic cases had a 5:1 He-man:MAA ratio or a 4:1:1 He-man:MAA:Stratos ratio, that is bad. Mer-man was so shortpacked it took me months to find one. When I first found Mekaneck, he was so shortpacked, I could have sold the two I found on the shelf for hundreds of dollars, but at the time, it was a huge risk that they would ever make him available again. All of this was before all the crazy "variant" paint apps.

    Yes speculators can cause huge problems in any industry. But those are not the people I am talking about. I am talking about your general collector who is gonna need some reason other then the one we have (love of MOTU) to buy into this line. I am not saying variants alone would bring millions of people over, but I dont think its gonna hurt.

    Yes it would be great to be able to order everything I want and get it. For me personally, being a completist it would be the best option. But I also would miss the hunt. And yes, it would save me money. Probably lots. and it might limit scalpers. And it might make the die hard motu fan happy. But it would also diminish my interest in the line a bit. A lot of the excitment and anticipation is gonna go away. I would know exactly what I am getting for like 6 months. Yes I would be excited to get them when they came, but i would still feel something is missing. I know thats just me, but I doubt I am alone in this feeling.
    I understand the feeling of glee when you finally find something on the hunt that has eluded you for a long time. However, to me, the fact that it comes without the effort and frustration of the hunt far outweighs the momentary glee derived from the hunt itself.

    As for my baseball card analogy....yes you could always go to another store to buy more cards. You could buy every pack of cards you could find in every store you went to and all of them on ebay, and you might not get what you are looking for. Just becuase you can by more doesnt mean you are gonna get the card you are looking for. Yes I know this line is gonna have limited production runs (as of Mattels latest info, which may change) and you can only order so many. But if you only have 2 different figures, or say one without a chase or variant then you really only need to order one. Yes i know a lot of people would want more, for customizing and one MOC one loose, but your average fan would only order one, or one of each. But if you can order 3 or more and you have two different figures but one is random/short packed then that same person is gonna think about ordering another one or two, just on the off chance they might get the "rare" one. (and you know if something is "rare" it is gonna increase interest from the casual person)
    This is one thing that you haven't convinced me on at all.... maybe it's because I rarely stumbled upon chase figures in the 200x line on the store shelves. Knowing I have something rare may make me more likely to collect the line, but knowing that I can't possibly complete a line will likely drive me away more.

    Look, I know most of us here (except me aparently) are against chase, or doing chase at chance or not being able to choose or whatever. But I am just stating my opinion..as well as what I think may happen based on Mattels history. A history which includes one figure in the line we are discussing that had a variant that was short packed and was random order. Yes, there were probably "scalpers" that bought into this line. But the figure world is abuzz right now about the MOTUC line, and in no short part because of the variant and its immediate value. Does it suck for the average joe if he wanted a statue KG but didnt get it, sure. Does it suck for a guy that wanted the regular version and got a statue..i doubt it. As most people that have a regular would easily trade it for the variant, and throw in some other things like cash or their first born. And that type of interest, from scalpers, from average joes, from the action figure community is exactly what MOTUC needs, even if it sucks for some people. If the line sells out and contiunues to do so then the line continues. ANd thats what I want, even more then me getting every figure despite me being a completist.
    There is definitely a balance to doing this. To me, Mattel in the past has gone too far in one direction. They need to have a line that is free of this stuff for a while or they run the risk of a major burn on the community. I'm not against rare items... the special "Spirit of Greyskull" figure for example. There are only 2 of them, so even though I'm a completist, I'm ok not having one because to me, it's not produced to be part of the line. Same with the Ed Watts charity statues or the Bronze Hordak bust. (but if anyone has any of those and doesn't want them, IM me ). However, when like 1/10 or 1/8 or 1/6 is a statue variant, then to me that is part of the line and I should be able to choose. It was also something that was in the show. (It was also something I suggested they do long ago after first seeing the episode). When it is something that was in the show (or has a point in general), that's likely to increase demand a lot more.


    [EDIT: This was just to avoid back to back posts....]

    I have been giving this some thought and I WOULD support chase figures if it was done this way...

    1 pool of standard figs ($20 price point, limit 3).
    1 pool of chase figs ($25-$30 price point, limit 1, possibly with a portion of the extra price going towards a charity like CAAF).
    1 pool of random figs ($20 price point, say 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 chance of scoring a chase, limit 4).

    ... so long as everyone who ordered the chase directly from Mattel at the slightly higher price was guaranteed them. You could enforce a strict limit of 1 on this pool. This wouldn't stop scalping or people who can ship to multiple addresses, but it would give people the excitement of the hunt and be a little more reasonable to those who want the chases but not ebay prices. Oh, and this would have to be part of a subscription too (like 2 from the first pool, and 1 from the 2nd if they had one that month). None of these limits would apply to army builders either, they would be multipacks which ensured you get all the variants or a pool where you get one at random.
    Last edited by ash; July 30, 2008 at 09:41am. Reason: To avoid back to back posts....

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by ash View Post
    The only way that would irritate me is if Mattel were selling them on ebay and if the line was dead by March. This always happens. That's no different than buying your figures when they first come out on the shelves to make sure you get the whole wave, then a few weeks later seeing that the figures go on sale in the Sunday ad.

    I'm not rich either (at least not yet, if you know someone who wants to buy a robotics company, let me know ). I would like to have a complete collection while spending as little as possible, which is why I don't want to shop ebay.



    It was different in the 80's. First off, most of those things were production changes (like Skeletor boots) and they weren't intentionally placed in there to be a variant, they just happened when a new production line didn't make things exactly the same. At that time, there was hardly a store you could go in that didn't have a He-man section. There are only 3 figures from the first line that I would even consider "intentional" variants. (Man-E-Weapons, Black Blood Mosquitor, and Black Faced Grizzlor... there were things at the time like Camo Kahn, but he wasn't something Mattel US had designed, and at the time no one really knew). That's also a big difference. How many of us as kids knew that there were figures released only in Europe, even those of us who grew up in Europe may not have known that.



    The 200x line was on shaky ground to begin with, when Wave 1 Heroic cases had a 5:1 He-man:MAA ratio or a 4:1:1 He-man:MAA:Stratos ratio, that is bad. Mer-man was so shortpacked it took me months to find one. When I first found Mekaneck, he was so shortpacked, I could have sold the two I found on the shelf for hundreds of dollars, but at the time, it was a huge risk that they would ever make him available again. All of this was before all the crazy "variant" paint apps.



    I understand the feeling of glee when you finally find something on the hunt that has eluded you for a long time. However, to me, the fact that it comes without the effort and frustration of the hunt far outweighs the momentary glee derived from the hunt itself.



    This is one thing that you haven't convinced me on at all.... maybe it's because I rarely stumbled upon chase figures in the 200x line on the store shelves. Knowing I have something rare may make me more likely to collect the line, but knowing that I can't possibly complete a line will likely drive me away more.



    There is definitely a balance to doing this. To me, Mattel in the past has gone too far in one direction. They need to have a line that is free of this stuff for a while or they run the risk of a major burn on the community. I'm not against rare items... the special "Spirit of Greyskull" figure for example. There are only 2 of them, so even though I'm a completist, I'm ok not having one because to me, it's not produced to be part of the line. Same with the Ed Watts charity statues or the Bronze Hordak bust. (but if anyone has any of those and doesn't want them, IM me ). However, when like 1/10 or 1/8 or 1/6 is a statue variant, then to me that is part of the line and I should be able to choose. It was also something that was in the show. (It was also something I suggested they do long ago after first seeing the episode). When it is something that was in the show (or has a point in general), that's likely to increase demand a lot more.

    I see your point, but there is hardly anything where you can choose to get the rarer item. From comics to toys. Almost any line in the "collector" market has some sort of variant or exclusive or chase, or retailer exclusive and its very very rare you can have the option of buying them.

    And lets say Mattel does give you the option of buying the variants, for arguments sake. Lets also say they are 8/1. And that they produce 100,000 of a figure, including the variant. Thats 12,500 of the variant. lets say you can order 2 of the regular and one of the variant. If you are wanting a variant but dont manage to be one of the first 12,500 then you still miss out. And you have to be one of the first people to try and order. So a lot of people, even if you can choose which one you want, are still gonna have the same problem if it was random. And if you are on a plane at the time the store opens, or at work, or sleeping, or whatever else chances are you wont get it. Thats no more fair then random, becuase at least that way I have the same chance as everyone else. My ability to get one will depend on internet connection speed, wont be affected by work, weather, family time or anything like that. If its random EVERYONE, scalpers included, have the same chance of getting one. Both ways not everyone that wants one is gonna get one, but only one way is gonna create an equal chance to everyone.

    Yes, there are gonna be flaws to every way Mattel does, and no way is gonna make everyone happy. Heck most ways not even a majority of people on motus biggest fan site can agree. My point is, I want the same chance as someone else. I dont want to have to take time off of work, or some other thing, or schedule my life around the 15th of every month and hope everything goes right. Would it be cool if i was one of the first to order and got it every time, sure. but how is that fair to someone that lives in timbucktwo and when the store opens its 2 in the morning there. Or someone thats on a trip that cant get to a computer. Or someone on a family vacation with no computer access. Or what ever other thing might be going on in the average persons life.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by motuxmen View Post
    I see your point, but there is hardly anything where you can choose to get the rarer item. From comics to toys. Almost any line in the "collector" market has some sort of variant or exclusive or chase, or retailer exclusive and its very very rare you can have the option of buying them.
    I would agree if this were a standard retail item. However, there is nothing to say that this line has to be like any previous retail based line.

    And lets say Mattel does give you the option of buying the variants, for arguments sake. Lets also say they are 8/1. And that they produce 100,000 of a figure, including the variant. Thats 12,500 of the variant. lets say you can order 2 of the regular and one of the variant. If you are wanting a variant but dont manage to be one of the first 12,500 then you still miss out. And you have to be one of the first people to try and order. So a lot of people, even if you can choose which one you want, are still gonna have the same problem if it was random. And if you are on a plane at the time the store opens, or at work, or sleeping, or whatever else chances are you wont get it. Thats no more fair then random, becuase at least that way I have the same chance as everyone else. My ability to get one will depend on internet connection speed, wont be affected by work, weather, family time or anything like that. If its random EVERYONE, scalpers included, have the same chance of getting one. Both ways not everyone that wants one is gonna get one, but only one way is gonna create an equal chance to everyone.
    Except that in the case of this line, if there is no retailer involved and they know which figure is coming months in advance, there is no reason that Mattel couldn't offer a pre-order and produce enough to meet demand. Also, you may have missed that I said this would have to be able to be part of a subscription option as well. The subscription would eliminate your concerns about being on a plane, sleeping, working, spending time with your family, etc and makes it fair. If there were 15,000 people who subscribed to the 2 standard 1 variant option, they would end up having to make at least that many chase/variant figures. Everyone who wants one would get one as everyone could subscribe. Under what I proposed they would have to make a few extra thousand to put into the random pool for people who choose not to subscribe and some more to put in the pool for people who want just that. True, you could come to the line late or choose not to subscribe, but that's a different story. You would have had the option to get it.

    Yes, there are gonna be flaws to every way Mattel does, and no way is gonna make everyone happy. Heck most ways not even a majority of people on motus biggest fan site can agree. My point is, I want the same chance as someone else. I dont want to have to take time off of work, or some other thing, or schedule my life around the 15th of every month and hope everything goes right. Would it be cool if i was one of the first to order and got it every time, sure. but how is that fair to someone that lives in timbucktwo and when the store opens its 2 in the morning there. Or someone thats on a trip that cant get to a computer. Or someone on a family vacation with no computer access. Or what ever other thing might be going on in the average persons life.
    Again, all of these are resolved by having a subscription option which was brought up at the panel by Mattel before fans had a chance to ask for it.
    Last edited by ash; July 30, 2008 at 11:22am.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ash View Post
    I would agree if this were a standard retail item. However, there is nothing to say that this line has to be like any previous retail based line.



    Except that in the case of this line, if there is no retailer involved and they know which figure is coming months in advance, there is no reason that Mattel couldn't offer a pre-order and produce enough to meet demand. Also, you may have missed that I said this would have to be able to be part of a subscription option as well. The subscription would eliminate your concerns about being on a plane, sleeping, working, spending time with your family, etc and makes it fair. If there were 15,000 people who subscribed to the 2 standard 1 variant option, they would end up having to make at least that many chase/variant figures. Everyone who wants one would get one as everyone could subscribe. Under what I proposed they would have to make a few extra thousand to put into the random pool for people who choose not to subscribe and some more to put in the pool for people who want just that. True, you could come to the line late or choose not to subscribe, but that's a different story. You would have had the option to get it.



    Again, all of these are resolved by having a subscription option which was brought up at the panel by Mattel before fans had a chance to ask for it.
    I did see where you said the subscription services would solve some issues. And it does seem like a good idea, in theory. And I do see the benifits. I just think anything where you can actually choose which figure you get will diminish the value of that figure. For those of us that are completist, or anyone that will want that specific figure thats awsome. But I am a complitest, and I still like the challenge of finding everything. Yes, sometimes it gets agrivating, but once I find that one figure Ive been looking for, and especially of I get a good deal on it I have a huge sense of satisfaction. I know this is only my opinion, and as others have told me im a "newbie", despite having collected motu for 25 years or so, and having been a "lurker" here for like 6 or 7.

    Its rare that I actually agree with anything Mattel does, and even rarer when I defend it. Just in this case, and how it relates to the way I collect and how I feel about chase/variants and how they help the line, I agree. I have no problem admitting when others are right and when i am wrong.lol But this whole thread is about personal preferences and opinions, and will have little effect if any on how things actually work. Everyone on here, and I am not singling or specifically talking about you, always complains about how things are done and comes up with ideas about how it should be done. Most people dont look at it from the companys point of view (wether that be mattel, mv creations, bci, filmation, or whatever other ones there are) or try to understand why things are done away. Especially if it isnt the way they would do them. I am as guilty of this as anyone else.

    I can understand why Mattel is, at least so far, doing things the way they are and I can see the benifits to it. And I might do it close to the same way. Id incorp. some of the things that have been suggested here, but not all. My biggest problem with this line thus far has been being told one thing and something else happing. I dont agree with some of the things that have happened, but most of it I see the reasoning behind it. The only thing I have expected from Mattel (as this is a collector line and we were told from jump that its for us) is that I/we the collector are respected, and on a couple of occasions I didnt feel like that. But again, Mattel is a big company and sometimes things need to change or be done a certain way and I respect that as I have my own business as well as work for the State and I see how things are handled. But I dont like false info, and I dont like misleading info, especially if its intentional, and I dont like being told one thing and something else is what happens and we the fans get no explination. Anyway...sorry about the rant, I started out defending Mattel and I kinda went another way there for a minute.lol

  21. #96
    grumpy old dragon scott metzger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motuxmen View Post
    Yes speculators can cause huge problems in any industry. But those are not the people I am talking about. I am talking about your general collector who is gonna need some reason other then the one we have (love of MOTU) to buy into this line. I am not saying variants alone would bring millions of people over, but I dont think its gonna hurt.
    But that's the point; if they aren't buying for the love of MOTU or action figures in general, if they are only interested in the value of hard to find variants, then they are, by definition, a speculator. I have no intrinsic problem with that; if people want to spend their money on toys for their perceived value, fine, if that's what floats their boat. But it does hurt to make that market any kind of significant target of the new line, because moves to appease speculators usually turn collectors, the more stable market you need, off.

    Putting it in the simplest terms, a speculator is going to buy a figure here and there they think is valuable, ignore the rest, and dump the line the moment the market turns. Collectors will buy many or all of the figures, and wil ldo so regardless of what's listed as hot in this month's Toy Fare. If the former decides to spend their money here, great, Mattel will take it. But the focus has got to be on the people who buy because of some commitment to the line, whether it be die hard collectors or folks who stumble across the line's existence and want to recapture a piece of their youth (a major reason why retail presence should still be a goal with the line if it does well). These are the sales you covet, because they will be a more stable consumer base.
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  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott metzger View Post
    But that's the point; if they aren't buying for the love of MOTU or action figures in general, if they are only interested in the value of hard to find variants, then they are, by definition, a speculator. I have no intrinsic problem with that; if people want to spend their money on toys for their perceived value, fine, if that's what floats their boat. But it does hurt to make that market any kind of significant target of the new line, because moves to appease speculators usually turn collectors, the more stable market you need, off.

    Putting it in the simplest terms, a speculator is going to buy a figure here and there they think is valuable, ignore the rest, and dump the line the moment the market turns. Collectors will buy many or all of the figures, and wil ldo so regardless of what's listed as hot in this month's Toy Fare. If the former decides to spend their money here, great, Mattel will take it. But the focus has got to be on the people who buy because of some commitment to the line, whether it be die hard collectors or folks who stumble across the line's existence and want to recapture a piece of their youth (a major reason why retail presence should still be a goal with the line if it does well). These are the sales you covet, because they will be a more stable consumer base.
    I get what you are saying, but recent history has shown that a line aimed at only motu fans and collectors is doomed. We are not a larger enough population to support a line. NA, 200x, and the stactions are evidence of that. Well not NA so much as most motu people hated it. but anyway....

    If we dont try to bring in the "speculators" as you call them( or as some people call them "action figure collectors" as they collect any action figure that peaks their interest) then this line is already doomed.

    Look at the stactions...this line has had the least "speculators" of any motu line, it generated the least amount of buzz (I cant remember any toyfair articles or anything like that) and it was tailored specifically to the MOTU collector. Sure it may have started out alright, but once the average fan/collector/spekulator lost interest it was done.

    I see your point about attracting those types of people and if they lose interest it could kill the line...but if they dont have initial interest it will kill the line to. Like it or not, those are the people that will save or kill this line. Not us. Its been proven twice in the last 6 years that motu fans alone can not sustain a line. At least the current ones. We need to make these average fans into fans like us. But you need something to bring the people in. A gimmick as some might say. And a chance to get a rare figure without having to spend any extra money is a pretty good one for your average fan. Heck, pretty good for me considering how much I have spent on these types of figures in the past. And even if you dont get it you still get a pretty sweet motu figure, that hopefully with the limited runs will be worth a bit, or at least maintain retail value.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketPunch View Post
    You never know, Mattel may give Faker a re-sculpted chest instead of just putting a sticker there like the old figure.

    I do agree that he would be better as an extra figure alongside the normal one-a-month character.
    Excellent point. Other than colors, that's the only unique thing about Faker. I hadn't thought of it.

  24. #99
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    What ultimately will make the chases more valuable will be that they are more limited, say only 15% of the figures created. Now if i am a member of the club and that guarantees me the option to get one that would be great, they should make enough chases to match the number of people that have guaranteed to buy figures by being members of the club, some club members will opt out of the chase/variant figure and then those can be made available on the website (first come first serve), since lets say if you are a club member you need to opt out of any figure you dont want by 7 days prior to them becoming available on the site. GI Joe has a club and they get club exclusives that are quite valuable. Even if there has to be a membership fee of say 35, but the we get 10% off of our figures or something, that would be good.
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    I vote no chase figures. The line is called classic: In the 80's there were no chase figures. They made action figures for kids to play with. I know this new line is for collectors, but the collectors were the kids who played with them in the 80's. Chase figures are one of the reasons I Hate toy companies today. "let's make the same figure and repaint it so we can sell more of the same crap". This is one of the reason I stop collecting the 2001 line and sold them off. I dig the whole concept of going on line and buy a new figure every month. I can get everything Mattel puts out without running store to store looking for the next figure. If there are chase figures, and there is one I want, I will have to go to eBay and search to get a figure that I should have been able to buy on Mattel's collectors site. I am pretty sure if Mattel does chase figures, then I will ditch the line.
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