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Thread: RUMOR: Comprehensive script Review, the real dirt on this script

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    RUMOR: Comprehensive script Review, the real dirt on this script

    First having read the Latino Review script, I found El Mayimbe's write-up really questionable. The reason being that I read El Mayimbe's ultra-favorable write-up for the Voltron script . . . written by Justin Marks. And then I read that same Voltron script by Justin Marks, and it was not as good as Latino Review claimed it to be.

    I've always kind of found Mayimbe's script reviews very weird and especially non-critical. And that's not really a bad thing. It just feels like he's either milking it, but well . . . this script does not have the makings of a great movie or an awesome action/adventure/fantasy franchise.

    Now the draft I read might be a first draft. It's dated 3 months ago. So I'm not sure if anything has been changed. However, usually with scripts like this, the first draft is the biggest and craziest and it's pared down from that.

    This will be a spoiler-laden report. But more than anything, I think Marks doesn't get the material or characters at all, and his attempts to make it "dark, gritty, relevant, TDK, 300" are all terrible and he fails miserably.

    Now I understand wanting to maybe edge and harden MOTU up some. This script goes about it in the totally wrong way.

    But ultimately. Look at these forums. These toys. The cartoons. The comics. Everything. We embrace it. We embrace the parts of He-Man that maybe are a little sillier that require some suspension of disbelief. We embrace Skeletor all that he is, and we like Skeletor. And we embrace He-Man/Prince Adam. This script simply doesn't embrace those basic, significant things about He-Man.

    Now I'm not sure if many remember, but a while back Adam Rifkin (Detroit Rock City) also wrote a MOTU script. And it was also problematic. But the thing I'm seeing is that both scripts seem to have a big problem with the whole transformation of Adam/He-Man. The duality of Adam and He-Man. It's weird. Two cartoons could do it. The 2002 series did it very well. But the live action movies seem totally clueless on its approach. They don't want to cast two actors as the characters. Or they want to age Adam older in this script so he's already older and stronger like He-Man.

    This script, oh boy, this script. OK, the prologue. The prologue is not bad really. Except that you know, the easy choice is that the big bad guy in this part is HELLO, Hordak. If they want this to be their new LOTR so badly, then you make Hordak your Sauron of the pictures. Marks simply won't call the dude Hordak. It needs to be Hordak. And if not Hordak, his brother Horde Prime. So if you are going to use King Grayskull like the animated show, then just go ahead and use Hordak.

    Transformation of Skeletor is as weak and disappointing as possible. Evil-Lyn leads him to the "sword of darkness", Keldor takes, it and it erodes his body and makes him Skeletor. Not only that, but it puts Skeletor's body in an almost, weak, vulnerable, disintegrating state. In short, this script has made Skeletor both physically and mentally weak. This feels like a mistake to make the birth of Skeletor such an event that's independent of so much in the rest of the script.

    Now say what you will about the 1987 movie. But Frank Langella at least was a decent Skeletor, and he made his Skeletor cool and sinister. The Skeletor in this script in short is whiney.

    This script is quite telling why they never had Skeletor win and take over Eternia in the cartoons because then the story is boring. Skeletor's never supposed to take over Eternia. Skeletor takes over Eternia in this script after killing Randor and taking the throne. And then Skeletor whines about the people he tortures and maims about not loving him as much as Randor. Taking over Eternia and claiming what he believes is rightfully his at least gives Skeletor an egomaniacal goal in place. The Skeletor in this script really has no goal. It doesn't necessarily have to be this way, but a better take on Skeletor would be Skeletor as an evil genius who has only one, true weakness - HORDAK. As powerful as Skeletor is, he has to answer to a higher power who could end his life at any second. The new series really got this down in the second season.

    The need to destroy everything at the beginning hurts the script. There's no reason to do this. There is no point in killing Randor and having Skeletor taking over Eternia right off the bat. Someone will say, the point is to give Adam a character arc and make him want revenge against Skeletor. BOO-urns. Sorry, but that's not He-Man. He-Man is not Batman.

    However, if this is the direction they are taking, in this script it does not work. Adam and Randor are barely even established as characters before everything goes to hell. Randor tries to tell Adam to shape up, then Skeletor comes in, boom, kills Randor. Kronis (aka Trap-Jaw) turns on Man-At-Arms and helps Skeletor take over. Man-At-Arms helps Adam escape because he's meant to be the savior of Eternia.

    So that's the setup. All we really know about Adam is that he's a bit of a punk, and he wants revenge against Skeletor. So all in this first act, things happen in the first act of this one way too quickly. And in a very cliched, hackneyed manner. The events evolve in a very obligatory manner.

    The cosmic warrior Zodak picks up Adam. Zodak who mentors him, and trains Adam in the ways of the sword, and then Zodak gets killed like two pages later. So that's it for Zodak. Marks just manages to fit him in for about five pages in the first act to train Adam and then Zodak who is supposed to be a Master of the Universe and a cosmic warrior. Yet Zodak dies easier than a red shirt on Star Trek. This is a shoddy attempt at duplicating the version of Zodak from the new series, which was actually a cool, badass version of Zodak. A Zodak who actually had some flaws and pathos. Not here.

    Man-At-Arms barely even feels like a character as well. Man-At-Arms is reintroduced when its revealed to Adam that Duncan and Teela have been fighting a resistance movement for the last 7 years of Skeletor's rule.

    Teela comes into the second act, and Duncan is like, "You remember Teela, don't you?" Adam in fact does not remember Teela at all. And how should the audience? We never even see Teela at the palace before everything fell. So there's no established relationship there where there clearly should. A way to help set-up Teela as a strong fighter and warrior even at a young age, someone who could even best Adam in combat exercises, which gives a kind of good way to set up some tension between them. But shouldn't we see them clowning around as kids or something so you don't need Man-At-Arms to have those throwaway lines. You also lose the chance of setting up an early romantic subplot maybe with Adam/Teela.

    Right off the bat the script makes Teela the skeptical, annoying idiot. Anyone remember the movie TEAM AMERICA: WORLD POLICE? Remember Chris, the agitated martial artist that automatically hates the main character, Gary, and is always insulting him and acting skeptical of his motives? That's basically Teela in this script without the cursing, and she's a girl. That's it. Most of Teela's dialogue kind of makes you want to respond, "Shut up woman, I'm trying to help!"

    Also, remember earlier I talked about those basic things that we love about this material that the script just doesn't do? Well basically this movie needs to just be Skeletor and the Evil Warriors vs. He-Man and the Masters of The Universe. That's it. We don't need this ridiculous first half of Skeletor actually winning and taking over Eternia. A simple prologue with the creation of the light and dark hemispheres, maybe a little King Grayskull and Hordak, then go into the Masters, King Randor, Adam, etc. Then we have He-Man and the Masters vs. Skeletor and the Evil Warriors.

    Who is this wizard Lennox character? Instead of Lennox, give us Orko. Why set up these dumb pointless characters no one cares about? Orko can be done well. The script kind of has this high and mighty attitude. We won't do the "cheesy, silly" stuff like Cringer or Orko, but we will have tons of cliche, hackneyed, bad dialogue and the least compelling drama possible! Again, those things about MOTU are what they really need to just embrace and try to work around.

    Of all the other masters to pick other than Teela and Man-At-Arms we only get Fisto and Mek-A-Nek. But none of that really becomes clear until really late into it. Fisto starts out as a wounded vet in Duncan's rebel army by the name of Col. Logan (more Boo-urns). Fisto doesn't like that Duncan is betting everything on Adam and the prophecy of the sword of light. So what does Fisto do? He betrays the army to Skeletor in order to "save" them. And then what does Skeletor do? Sends his army after them to kill them! And then Fisto is all like, "Oh noez! That's not what I wanted!" Fisto for some inexplicable reason is let back into the good guy camp without really redeeming himself. Lame, lame, lame.

    This is another problem with Justin Marks scripts. Besides that his writing and dialogue if very trite, hackneyed, half-baked, and cliched . . . he telegraphs EVERYTHING. His Voltron script has a character like Fisto that does the exact same thing. And he does it in pretty much the same way. In the Voltron script, Marks totally telegraphs it there as well. There's not really any good suspense, build-up, surprise, or drama to it.

    Evil-Lyn in the script starts out as a manipulative seductress and then . . . Skeletor kills her about the middle of the way in when she tries to seduce Adam to the dark side. She also taunts Adam about his anger and wanting to kill Skeletor. Wow, surely Adam wouldn't take revenge on Skeletor instead of helping the people of Eternia right, even though taking revenge on Skeletor would basically help everybody. Marks telegraphs and really kills this sub-plot as well. You don't care about the Adam revenge subplot at all.

    Also why kill Evil-Lyn like this? Evil-Lyn's a great character you can get so much mileage out of, yet the script definitively offs her just like that. Sure it might cement that Skeletor doesn't play around and he will kill you if you mess up, but there are other ways to do this. Good thing though that Evil-Lyn doesn't even come off like a fraction of a good character because you don't care when she does die either.

    Why can we have wizards but we can't have Orko? Seriously, give Orko a try and make him kind of like the movie's Yoda. Orko can be done and he can be a good character.

    So the climax of the Adam revenge plot. Adam gets the sword of light and turns into a half-baked version of He-Man that's still really Prince Adam. He fights Skeletor, and Skeletor taunts Adam about Randor to make Adam angry. Skeletor tries to threaten Teela, and then Adam does the switcheroo and he gets both the swords and combines them and becomes uber-Adam. Instead of taking revenge on Skeletor, Adam turns the other cheek. And then 2 seconds later, Skeletor automatically turns into a billion little pieces. OK . . . so . . . yeah, Skeletor was screwed either way, so it doesn't really matter. But what if Adam had destroyed Skeletor not for revenge but to save Eternia, wouldn't that have been OK?

    Reading this script just reaffirms that El Mayimbe is one of the worst script readers of all time. From reading the script, if I could compare it to anything, the strongest example that comes to mind is ERAGON. Yes, I know, I know. Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, 300, LOTR, yadda yadda yadda. Unfortunately we aren't dealing with the likes of Chris Nolan, Zach Snyder, Peter Jackson, and Jonah Nolan here. The script really just comes off the most like that ERAGON movie unfortunately, and it pains me to say that.

    Another problem that I want to address with regards to the Rifkin script, the Marks script for MOTU, and the Marks script for Voltron. We don't get to see, what we really want to see until the end.

    What is this at the end of the day? It's a He-Man movie. So give people He-Man. Don't wait until the last 10 minutes to do a half-baked version of He-Man that's still basically Prince Adam. You got to go full on He-Man. This script doesn't want to do that. The Rifkin script does a similar execution of He-Man at the end, except it has this weird sub-plot where Adam is gradually, physically growing into He-Man over the course of the running time.

    In the Voltron script, Voltron doesn't actually appear until the very, very end. Just like this script with He-Man. Lame.

    So some will say, just getting a live action He-Man movie is what's important. But if that is the case, you still have 1987 movie. I'd rather not settle for something if this is what they plan on shooting. If they do go through with it, hopefully some major re-writes or done and they fix this up. Because this does not look like a money script.
    Last edited by TheVileOne; August 15, 2008 at 05:49pm.
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    Heroic Warrior Orko's Magic Hat's Avatar
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    Ummm...

    I guess this explains why this is still in script development then....

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    Script development or development hell? Because WB doesn't seem all that committed to it one way or the other.
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    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    Evil-Lyn in the script starts out as a manipulative seductress and then . . . Skeletor kills her about the middle of the way in when she tries to seduce Adam to the dark side.
    Say WHAT?! Another character death? And Evil-Lyn?!

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    First Class, Unlimited Mirage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    Say WHAT?! Another character death? And Evil-Lyn?!

    At this rate, there won't be any people left for sequels.

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    that does not sound good at all and your right, when I was reading your post all I could think was Eragon. I hope they can get some other people on this and make a better script or else I would prefer they just forget about it. Also I really wish they would let Randor live and keep the transformation/alter-ego in if for nothing else to differentiate it from any future Conan movies.

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    Thanks for doing this, I didn't have the energy to do it after reading through that mess. I'll repeat my statement from the other thread, totally not feeling this. It's He-Man, but it's even less He-Man than the 80's movie.

    Just a comment: I don't like Hordak being in the Preternian history ala 200X, I prefer him as the mentor of young Skeletor who becomes his rival rather than his all-the-time boss. If they have to do Preternia, DO HISS!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machinitess View Post
    Thanks for doing this, I didn't have the energy to do it after reading through that mess. I'll repeat my statement from the other thread, totally not feeling this. It's He-Man, but it's even less He-Man than the 80's movie.

    Just a comment: I don't like Hordak being in the Preternian history ala 200X, I prefer him as the mentor of young Skeletor who becomes his rival rather than his all-the-time boss. If they have to do Preternia, DO HISS!
    I think you can still do both really.

    But yeah, that's a good idea too. They can have King Hss or the Snakemen there at the beginning. Or Hordak's brother.
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    Heroic Warrior Mach5's Avatar
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    Well, I can now state that my excitement about the upcoming movie has finally dropped to zero. It's been dropping for a while now, and now it has finally hit the bottom. And it's a pity because it's El Mayimbe's review that has reignited my long lost fascination with MOTU.
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    I must says, if that's the script (and now seems like it's being confirmed by multiple sources)... I basically agree on everything TheVileOne said.
    I said that at the beginning in the other thread and unfortunately I repeat myself here.
    Without being too hard with Justin Marks, who I had the pleasure and the honor to meet in San Diego (but unfortunately not enough time to talk), as TheVileOne remarked, the story still miss some very important aspects of the MOTU mythos.
    Just having He-Man vs Skeletor for the control over Eternia is not MOTU, or at least, not enough MOTU for me.

    I don't want to argue again on what's MOTU and what not, because we know fans have dozens of different of view on that.
    But I still feel, if we're getting a MOTU movie, why can't we get a proper MOTU movie?

    Yeah, you know I'm biased in regards of the 87 movie, but that is still more true to the original material than this new script.
    Please don't nitpick guys, the 87 movies is full of flaws, but the basics of MOTU are there, even if we don't see stuff like Adam or Orko.

    I think the questions that need to be asked about MOTU when writing a movie are:
    1 - What kind of hero He-Man is?
    2 - What the title Masters of the Universe actually means?

    The movie script so far gives the wrong answer to these two simple questions, and those are the core of MOTU.

    For pure fun, let's give the right answers to these questions. Keep in mind, I'm reporting facts based on the various incarnations of classic MOTU, not my point of view.

    1:He-Man is a pure hero. Superman/Captain America like. He decides to fight because is necessary. Because he's the one that can do it and he's willing to do good. He has no other basic motifs.
    Yeah, it's the most boring kind of hero, and the most difficult to make interesting, so the most challengig for a writer.
    Does it means Adam/He-Ma is a flat character? Not at all! There is a lot to do with hsi relationship whith is father. A conflict father-son, where the relationship frustrated by his willing to prove he's a son to be proud of, a wish that has to remain unsatisfied because he has to keep his identity secret (Prince Adam no more anyone'. Add to that his worst enemy his his father's brother, basically a dark distorted version of the father.
    And we could go on and on...
    Just don't kill Randor. We have more good reason to keep him than having him gone.

    2: Masters of the Universe. We said that many times it isn't a name for a group of people. It's the concept of the series, the greatest champions of the universe fighting for a the greatest power. Not the power to control Eternia. The Power to control the entire universe.
    Eternia is the battleground, not the prize.
    Grayskull is where the secrets (first minicomics) and the greatest power of the universe reside.
    And the Powersword is the key to Grayskull. It was literally a key in the original toys and it remained what channels Grayskull's power in the cartoon and evne in teh 87 movie, where Skeletor still need it to unlock the powers at the end.

    So, all the movie needs right now is to get rid of making the story about a local conflict based on a revenge. I'm sure all the improvements will follow naturally if we go back to those simple concepts.
    MOTU can be told as a serious and dark story, but at the core is still a fairy tale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    I must says, if that's the script (and now seems like it's being confirmed by multiple sources)... I basically agree on everything TheVileOne said.
    I said that at the beginning in the other thread and unfortunately I repeat myself here.
    Without being too hard with Justin Marks, who I had the pleasure and the honor to meet in San Diego (but unfortunately not enough time to talk), as TheVileOne remarked, the story still miss some very important aspects of the MOTU mythos.
    Just having He-Man vs Skeletor for the control over Eternia is not MOTU, or at least, not enough MOTU for me.

    I don't want to argue again on what's MOTU and what not, because we know fans have dozens of different of view on that.
    But I still feel, if we're getting a MOTU movie, why can't we get a proper MOTU movie?

    Yeah, you know I'm biased in regards of the 87 movie, but that is still more true to the original material than this new script.
    Please don't nitpick guys, the 87 movies is full of flaws, but the basics of MOTU are there, even if we don't see stuff like Adam or Orko.

    I think the questions that need to be asked about MOTU when writing a movie are:
    1 - What kind of hero He-Man is?
    2 - What the title Masters of the Universe actually means?

    The movie script so far gives the wrong answer to these two simple questions, and those are the core of MOTU.

    For pure fun, let's give the right answers to these questions. Keep in mind, I'm reporting facts based on the various incarnations of classic MOTU, not my point of view.

    1:He-Man is a pure hero. Superman/Captain America like. He decides to fight because is necessary. Because he's the one that can do it and he's willing to do good. He has no other basic motifs.
    Yeah, it's the most boring kind of hero, and the most difficult to make interesting, so the most challengig for a writer.
    Does it means Adam/He-Ma is a flat character? Not at all! There is a lot to do with hsi relationship whith is father. A conflict father-son, where the relationship frustrated by his willing to prove he's a son to be proud of, a wish that has to remain unsatisfied because he has to keep his identity secret (Prince Adam no more anyone'. Add to that his worst enemy his his father's brother, basically a dark distorted version of the father.
    And we could go on and on...
    Just don't kill Randor. We have more good reason to keep him than having him gone.

    2: Masters of the Universe. We said that many times it isn't a name for a group of people. It's the concept of the series, the greatest champions of the universe fighting for a the greatest power. Not the power to control Eternia. The Power to control the entire universe.
    Eternia is the battleground, not the prize.
    Grayskull is where the secrets (first minicomics) and the greatest power of the universe reside.
    And the Powersword is the key to Grayskull. It was literally a key in the original toys and it remained what channels Grayskull's power in the cartoon and evne in teh 87 movie, where Skeletor still need it to unlock the powers at the end.

    So, all the movie needs right now is to get rid of making the story about a local conflict based on a revenge. I'm sure all the improvements will follow naturally if we go back to those simple concepts.
    MOTU can be told as a serious and dark story, but at the core is still a fairy tale.
    Good points, Emiliano--- but I got one word on that Keldor business : INFINITIA! Seriously, I wouldn't be completely ballistic if he's Randor's brother in the movie (should we get one), but it's gonna make me do a facepalm when I see it in print again.
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  12. #12
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    I also wanted to put in my thanks for saying what I could not really articulate at all. It's good that these negatives are brought to light and dealt with, so we get the best possible story for MOTU and some longevity, instead of having it be an embarrassing flop that completely ruins everything for the brand. Possibly for good.

    When parts of the script were first revealed on Latino Review, along with a glowing review, I too was worried about a lot of what I was reading about the script, as well as being somewhat skeptical of the actual review itself. -- Seemed a bit unprofessional or something. It also felt like many sites were all too eager to jump on the bandwagon and praise this thing for 'making MOTU serious.' Suddenly it was elevated to almost award-winning levels, just because there was a darker tone to it and no Orko or camp/comedy.

    And I agree. He-Man is not Batman. I don't like that Adam is essentially a punk troublemaker either. There's too many pointless deaths. All of this is letting the pendulum swing too far in the opposite direction.

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    I don't know I still trust Ted's opinion on the script. as well as the fact that it's going to be revised a billion times before things are all said and done. it's fine to express concerns or praises esp since we may make some influence on it, but what I don't want to see is Filmation, MYP, the 87 flick, MVC comics the DC star or mini comics turned into a movie. I want the best elements of those coupled with something new for the movie. From my understanding (having NOT read the script) He-Man/Adam ISN'T batman, the revenge aspect isn't what makes him he-man it's what he has to exorcise in order to become he-man. that's different than batman. completely. it's a theme that I like from a lot of eastern (martial arts) movies. and currently one that really speaks personally to me.

    I want the stakes to be high, I want the threats to be real for the world we're watching, I also want some familiarity so I can walk out of the theatre thinking - NOW THAT was a He-Man movie. the way I felt after watching The Dark Knight - although it changed some established cannon - is the way I want to feel about MOTU. I don't mind the changes if they fit the story well. One thing though I DO want them to leave characters alive for the sequel!
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    I'm not sure who Ted is or what his opinion is. But this was my opinion of the script that I read. It's my own opinion.

    Not Batman, yet Batman Begins is already something Justin Marks has invoked with regards in what they are trying to do with this story.

    It's one thing to do the revenge plot, but its another to do it like they do in this script and not do a good job of it.
    Last edited by TheVileOne; August 15, 2008 at 11:03pm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    I'm not sure who Ted is what his opinion is. But this was my opinion of the script that I read. It's my own opinion.

    Not Batman, yet Batman Begins is already something Justin Marks has invoked with regards in what they are trying to do with this story.

    It's one thing to do the revenge plot, but its another to do it like they do in this script and not do a good job of it.
    Without emphasizing too much, is there any point in the script when Skeletor becomes powerful? The reason I ask is because you say he's weak. Also, do we see "He-Man" and Skeletor riding Battle-Cat and Panthor?

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    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
    I'm not sure who Ted is what his opinion is. But this was my opinion of the script that I read. It's my own opinion.

    Not Batman, yet Batman Begins is already something Justin Marks has invoked with regards in what they are trying to do with this story.
    understood, I haven't searched for it to read as I'd rather not know the whole thing esp since as I and others have said, things WILL change.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm sure some here WANT to see a live action (choose any previous MOTU incarnation) done with 100% accuracy to that source. which is fine but it IS an unrealistic expectation, esp since ER owns the filmation plots, we WON'T ever see something like that unless ER is involved.


    I think that Batman Begins overall set a standard for these movies as what Nolan and co did was bring the character and story back to a level of respect after what Schumacher did with it, it's generally a fan standard now to describe what people want to see in regards to treating their property with respect. Superman fans that hated returns want a Superman Begins, Spiderman fans who hated (at least) the 3rd flick want a spiderman begins, so to say that you want to do that with a property in my mind just notes that what you are trying to do is set a tone with the movie where people are going to take the world you present them serious.

    I could be wrong and he's just trying to do Batman Begins starring he-man, but again, it's all pending approval and revisions, I know we all want a kick ass movie to bring MOTU back into the spotlight where it belongs.
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    Well this throws some new light on things! I like that Marks in trying to make MOTU darker and gritter like the original concept, but it sounds like he is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Killing Evil Lyn so suddenly, making Teela whiney, stealing She-Ra's premise, no romance for He-Man and Teela, No mother daughter link for the Sorceress and Teela, no orko, no actual power within Castle Grayskull bar the sword of light, turning Zodak into the weakest version of the character we have ever seen. No Queen Marlana, or mention of Adora's existance, Killing Randor off so soon! No possibility of the Sword of Protection or shooting the ****t with Cringer. Skeletor sounds far too weak as well. Finally where is the UNIVERSE in all of this. This isn't Masters of the Universe, It's who's gonna be the MASTER of Eternia!

    (Right here, right now I am staring the official bring back Frank Langella campaign! )

    Seriously though someone needs to give Larry Ditillieo a copy of this script, and let him submit a re-write of it to Mattel. Marks has either cut out, killed off, ignored or just not comprehended some of the most important characters and mythos aspects of this property. I initially had big hopes for this script, But after reading this review I have seriously lost faith in Marks. I think the review sounded fair! I agree with everything Emiliano said in his last post. If it does get green lit, major re-writes of this script are going to need to be done.

    But in that recent interview the 4H did say that when the movie comes its going to be a very different beast. Maybe Mattel are totally behind this version of the script and this is what we are going to get. If so... its a real shame! This film could have been so much more than this.
    Last edited by Angel-T; August 15, 2008 at 08:57pm.
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  18. #18
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    so much more than WHAT? nothing is cast, shot, built or even sold yet. all we have is a first draft of a commissioned script. WB hasn't bought it, Mattel hasn't approved it, we have nothing. I don't get the defeatist attitude like the film has already been printed and sent to the distributors and it's the way it is.

    again it is FINE to voice our hopes and concerns as it allows the powers that be to see what makes MOTU to the fan base (though it varies greatly) but come on folks, lets not bury any bodies that haven't even been born yet.

    The passion of the fandom is great but lets try not to write anything off as final, (positive or negatively) as nothing is final yet - even if they were shooting this right now, it would STILL be subject to many changes. even in post production after we've seen the full trialers - we'll most likely not have everything we've been shown.
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    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Yeah, I still think its all subject to opinion. As thevileone said, this was just his opinion. As we all know TED (forget the numbers. Sorry!) loved it and rated it very highly, even comparing the mood to the original comics. I mean, if one of you got your hands on it and read every single line, you never know, you may like it as well.

    I've been a huge Transformers fan for many years. Way before the live-action film. Obviously, I followed the production of that film all the through on the donmurphy message boards. In case anyone doesn't know, Don Murphy was one of the producers on Transformers and he set up a message board for all the fans to voice their opinions.

    And I must say, I'm getting the distinct feeling of déjà vu. An early draft of that script was leaked, too, and many die-hard fans despised every aspect of it. But still, even then, reading an early draft wasn't like watching the actual film. And when the film came out, lo and behold, a lot of the ones who despised that early draft loved it. Of course, some are still seething and bitter, but most have come around.

    But a year later, nearly all fans of Transformers (well, the ones who still post at the donmurphy message boards) have come to realize something that the makers of the film were trying to drum home all along. That the live-action Transformers and the cartoon and comic version of Transformers are three completely different things. The live-action world doesn't have to serve the cartoon and comic world, and vice versa.

    Face it, if this exact same script gets the greenlight, that's obviously gonna be the case with He-Man as well. Cartoon, comics, toys, everything that came before, they're completely separate from the live-action universe. In time, even the most ardent fans will come to except this. Ask (nearly) any Transformers fan and they'll most probably tell you the same.

    Don't bite my head off for posting this.

  20. #20
    First Class, Unlimited Mirage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    From my understanding (having NOT read the script) He-Man/Adam ISN'T batman, the revenge aspect isn't what makes him he-man it's what he has to exorcise in order to become he-man. that's different than batman. completely. it's a theme that I like from a lot of eastern (martial arts) movies. and currently one that really speaks personally to me.

    To me, it's still too close to Batman:


    Alfred Pennyworth:
    Master Wayne, you've been gone a long time.

    Bruce Wayne: They told me there was nothing out there, nothing to fear. But the night my parents were murdered I caught a glimpse of something. I've looked for it ever since. I went around the world, searched in all the shadows. And there is something out there in the darkness, something terrifying, something that will not stop until it gets revenge... Me.

    Switch out Bruce Wayne for Adam and you'll have MOTU.


    Seriously, is Prince Adam even CAPABLE of being hell-bent on revenge? In my mind, he'd be too frozen with fear to try anything.

    You'll be completely gutting the character!


    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    Spiderman fans who hated (at least) the 3rd flick want a spiderman begins

    Didn't the first film already go down that road?


    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    I've been a huge Transformers fan for many years. Way before the live-action film. Obviously, I followed the production of that film all the through on the donmurphy message boards. In case anyone doesn't know, Don Murphy was one of the producers on Transformers and he set up a message board for all the fans to voice their opinions.

    And I must say, I'm getting the distinct feeling of déjà vu. An early draft of that script was leaked, too, and many die-hard fans despised every aspect of it. But still, even then, reading an early draft wasn't like watching the actual film. And when the film came out, lo and behold, a lot of the ones who despised that early draft loved it. Of course, some are still seething and bitter, but most have come around.

    But a year later, nearly all fans of Transformers (well, the ones who still post at the donmurphy message boards) have come to realize something that the makers of the film were trying to drum home all along. That the live-action Transformers and the cartoon and comic version of Transformers are three completely different things. The live-action world doesn't have to serve the cartoon and comic world, and vice versa.

    Be that as it may, TF held true to the characters (TF didn't completely gut the characters; Optimus Prime wasn't this crazed, angsty wildman. He was pretty much what he was in the `toon.)
    Last edited by Mirage; August 15, 2008 at 09:26pm.

  21. #21
    Heroic Warrior Krueger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
    Be that as it may, TF held true to the characters (TF didn't completely gut the characters; Optimus Prime wasn't this crazed, angsty wildman. He was pretty much what he was in the `toon.)
    True. Prime was Prime, and I suppose you can say that Bumblebee was Bumblebee. Okay, I'll admit that I thought the Autobots were pretty spot on, at least for the most part. The Decepticons were virtually non-existent. At least this He-Man script seems to spend a bit of time with the villains.

    But still, what I'm trying to say is that Transformers strayed pretty much as far away as it could from the original cartoons. All I'm saying is that Mark's script sounds like its doing the same. Whether it’s straying too far....well, as I said, that's subject to opinion.

    All we have to go on is four opinions. Latinoreview loved it, TED felt it stayed true to the spirit of He-Man whilst offering something different, thevileone pretty much hated it and that one that was posted yesterday said it was OK, had good ideas but also a lot of problems. As I said, all opinions, and all appear to be from fans.

    Oh, and I might add that I have another opinion myself, taken from a poster who fed me a lot of info at the IMDB boards. TED verified that everything he said corresponded accurately, so I guess it was legit. He was also a fan and he loved it. I posted all the info he gave me in the original script review thread. Read it if you want. I asked him as many questions as I could think of, and he answered every one. Quite a good read.
    Last edited by Krueger; August 15, 2008 at 09:45pm.

  22. #22
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
    To me, it's still too close to Batman:




    Switch out Bruce Wayne for Adam and you'll have MOTU.


    Seriously, is Prince Adam even CAPABLE of being hell-bent on revenge? In my mind, he'd be too frozen with fear to try anything.





    Didn't the first film already go down that road?
    yep but some fans hated everything Raimi did and others think he ruined it with part 3 and thus think they should start all over again (rabid fans , whaddya gon do?)




    Be that as it may, TF held true to the characters (TF didn't completely gut the characters; Optimus Prime wasn't this crazed, angsty wildman. He was pretty much what he was in the `toon.)
    I wouldn't say that. Prime had some of Prime's sensibilities, but he was such a wuss (weak couldn't stand against megatron) and EXTREMELY stupid (hey let's hide the allspark the object that the 'murderous don't care about anyone but ourselves decepticons' are willing to kill and destroy anything to get a hold of in a densley populated city - LOTS of human casualties and electronics that the all spark will turn into ravenous murderous robots!) Megatron was a generic villain and the rest of the characters didn't get all that much to say or do to be establshed, well bumblebee kicked butt but he was usually a damse in distress in the original, not a badass warrior. Even Sam (spike) and his dad weren't anything like they were in the toon. so a lot was thrown out for TF as well. too much actually in my opinion.

    where I want it to be like batman begins and TDK is that Batman and the surrounding characters - though different in many ways to their previous counterparts - were still very true to who they were. Two-Face's original origin has NOTHING to do with Joker - but in TDK it worked fine IMO. esp having him lose the love of his life worked very well, so (again I didn't read what IS written about it) having some revenge aspect in MOTU for Prince Adam CAN work - they did it in MYP to a point in fact the Marks version sounds like a darker but more fleshed out telling of what we got in "the beginning" Randor is killed instead of kidnapped, just imagine adam was a teenager and Keldor succeeded in the hall of wisdom and you're close.

    but yeah I don't want to see something that has nothing to do with MOTU at all, I don't mind aspects added, subtracted or embelished, I just want a kick ass flick dammit! MOTU deserves to be on top again! I'm tired of other (IMO) weaker properties getting the spotlight and props, while folks mock the top toyline of the 80s.
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  23. #23
    First Class, Unlimited Mirage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    having some revenge aspect in MOTU for Prince Adam CAN work - they did it in MYP to a point in fact the Marks version sounds like a darker but more fleshed out telling of what we got in "the beginning" Randor is killed instead of kidnapped, just imagine adam was a teenager and Keldor succeeded in the hall of wisdom and you're close.


    How many people even know MYP even EXISTS?


    This guy sure didn't.







    Mind you, I'm not looking for a Filmation clone. At the same time, the whole revenge plotline has gotten somewhat stale after "Batman Begins."

  24. #24
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    sounds so dark...

    I don't really think of MOTU as dark...

    anyway, I hope they don't make the movie like that....

    that would be bad...very bad, indeed.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krueger View Post
    Without emphasizing too much, is there any point in the script when Skeletor becomes powerful? The reason I ask is because you say he's weak. Also, do we see "He-Man" and Skeletor riding Battle-Cat and Panthor?
    The general feeling created with Skeletor is that the sword of darkness is killing him, and he feels like he could fall apart at any minute. At one point in the script Skeletor does become more powerful, but its more in a way of way too much power that he's basically falling apart at the seams. Not quite like Skeletor becoming ultra-powerful in the third act of the '87 movie.

    There is some riding Panthor and Skeletor. Not very much.

    I think that Batman Begins overall set a standard for these movies as what Nolan and co did was bring the character and story back to a level of respect after what Schumacher did with it, it's generally a fan standard now to describe what people want to see in regards to treating their property with respect. Superman fans that hated returns want a Superman Begins, Spiderman fans who hated (at least) the 3rd flick want a spiderman begins, so to say that you want to do that with a property in my mind just notes that what you are trying to do is set a tone with the movie where people are going to take the world you present them serious.
    This is kind of a wonky justification. All Batman Begins really did was give us more the type of Batman film we wanted that was much closer to the spirit and essence of the comics we know and love so much. Dark Knight even moreso.

    So why does that mean MOTU has to be like Batman Begins? I think it means more that MOTU as a property needs to be true to its source material while also being accessible.

    I didn't find this script all that accessible. It TRIES to be very dark and gritty, but its not convincing. It's almost like an imitation Batman Begins, Dark Knight, or 300 rather than earnestly doing it like those properties. I read the first draft of Begins, the one that was leaked. And that one while it still had some issues that I wished they fixed up later but sorta didn't, it was such a promising version.

    Also, we don't know this is a first draft. This script is dated as recently as three months ago. We know that Marks has been on this property since last year, so it could be a first draft or it could be a later one. A while back Adam Rifkin also did a draft of He-Man that was night and day different than this one. So its possible that Marks draft could get tossed and they go in a different direction again, but who knows.

    As of right now, Hollywood's not committing to a ton of huge new stuff because of the looming SAG issue that's still not resolved. The summer movie season next year became so barren that WB had to delay Harry Potter 6 for 8 months. Something I predicted they would do.

    I'm at least giving this script a perspective from someone who is familiar with all the shows and renditions of He-Man. And I think El Mayimbe is really full of it. I don't trust Justin Marks at all. His Voltron script was a total slap in the face.
    Last edited by TheVileOne; August 15, 2008 at 11:14pm.
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