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Thread: Toyguru's Canon: What do we keep going forward? What do we drop?

  1. #1
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Toyguru's Canon: What do we keep going forward? What do we drop?

    Whenever MOTU gets a new canon, some of the most popular ideas from the older canons survive into the newer canons. Tri-Klops being a bounty hunter seems popular. Prince Adam turning into He-Man, Orko, Cringer and other characters/relationships carried over from Filmation. Several origins from MYP survived into modern day.

    Which of Toyguru Classics bio canon ideas do we as a fanbase incorporate going forward, if any? What canon ideas should be forgotten and never spoken about again?

    • Were the multiple He-Men through the ages a good idea?
    • Should the Trollans stay a godlike race?
    • Is the idea of Adora running around as Despara a good one?
    • Was splitting Zodak and Zodac into two separate characters a good idea?
    • Do we want to keep Light Hope with a physical form?

    Just trying to see exactly what ideas where popular with the fanbase (at least as far as the .org) and which ones weren't.

    Discuss!

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    Heroic Warrior Bender Rodríguez's Avatar
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    We should drop all the unwanted and unnecessary deaths, like Duncan's, Stratos', etc. Maybe now, we should kill Sir Laser-Lot & Spector.

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    Mega-Man crashdiary27's Avatar
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    I personally love the idea of the multiple he-men. To me it makes more sense as to why everyone has heard of him.
    I was never too hot on the trollans being God like creatures. I never took orko seriously and probably never will. With him being the first trollan I ever knew I just picture all of them that way.
    Despara is awesome.
    Never liked the two cosmic enforcers. Give me the original Zodac and im fine.
    And light hope is already too expensive to keep in physical form
    Want to buy - Toys r Us MOTU figures, Goat Man, Procrustus.

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    Heroic Master of Puzzles Thatman's Avatar
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    Let's excise Green Lantern's origins/story from MOTU. Spector can go, too.

    I don't mind He-Man being a title over succeeding generations; I also don't mind Zodak being a Cosmic Enforcer in the past, and Zodac being a separate being in the 'main' canon.

    Actually, I like a lot of the Preternia developments, other than the GL-inspired stuff.

    We can keep the NA Era as happening in space, but not forward in time.

    And I know it wasn't a Scott idea, but I hatehateHATE the whole Man-At-Arms as Snake Man plot, and have been completely disregarding it...and will continue to do so. (I actually really liked Jack Olesker's idea of Man-At-Arms becoming a well-meaning but totalitarian ruler in the NA period.)
    "That's very interesting...but silly."

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    Heroic Warrior
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    I think a lot of the ideas were bad, but some were good/ok, about 50/50,
    The thing with me is that once there printed in some kind of official capacity then that's it, there in the 'canon stream',as such,
    For me He-man is like Darkwolf from the Frank Fazetta 'fire and ice' cartoon ,
    A lone warrior astride a giant cat, that arrives when needed, and like most archetypes, it's his cast of characters and villains that make the story work,

    And as for Adam and Orko, for me they simply don't exist

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    Heroic Warrior Jest-or's Avatar
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    Orko should get out of the shower and realise it was all a bad dream
    STOP READING THE BIOS!!!!!!!

  7. #7
    Serious bidness Ibentmyman-thing's Avatar
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    --I'm iffy on the multiple He-men idea. It works in one way, doesn't in another.

    --Not a fan of Trollans as GL Guardians.

    --Adora was never Despara

    --I'm fine with multiple Cosmic Enforcers

    --I'm ok with Light Hope having a physical form

    Writing those "class of" articles on Fwoosh, which I tried to more or less base around a lot of the new MotUC canon with some alterations here and there, really showed me what does and doesn't work for my own personal vision in the framework given. I'm an "all-inclusive" guy in terms of it all exists and I don't discount anything (including Prince Adam, but he's not the Filmation Prince Adam to me, I have my own ideas about that whole thing) but there's a lot I'm not fond of. I respect what's been done and the time and energy put into it, but I find I'm ignoring a lot of the current canon.

  8. #8
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Were the multiple He-Men through the ages a good idea? NO
    • Should the Trollans stay a godlike race? NO
    • Is the idea of Adora running around as Despara a good one? Pre She-ra, HELL YES! it's a great addition to the force captain persona and I really like the intersect of her being a force of punishment and pain then inheriting the sword of protection.
    • Was splitting Zodak and Zodac into two separate characters a good idea? I'm ok with it, I prefer (for the most part) 200x zodak, but I also liked the idea of a neutral cosmic enforcer
    • Do we want to keep Light Hope with a physical form? I do, at least for some ideas, he looks great!
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    Evil Horde Poison Master! Mr_Yuck's Avatar
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    Things to keep:

    • Despara. The whole visual concept of Adora as Hordak's Force Captain is just too awesome to let pass.
    • I'm good with the multiple "He-men" through time. Ancient protectors of Grayskull and it's secrets until the rightful heir claims the throne


    Things to trash:

    • Anything Spector related
    • Evil-Lyn running around "releasing" everything
    • The Overlords of Trolla being these master puppeteers behind everything in the story (Cosmic enforcers, Cosmic warriors, He-Ro, the Power Sword, etc...etc...etc..)
    • The sword of protection being a "clone" (Much prefer that King Grayskull forged two swords)
    • The concept that Catra was with the Horde the whole time and from the Tri-Solar system (To me she was always from Etheria who got recruited to the Horde)
    • Etheria residing in Despondos.
    • The "Temple of Power" on Trolla that looks like Castle Grayskull. The nexus of power should always be Castle Grayskull
    • Most of the "real names"
    Last edited by Mr_Yuck; Yesterday at 03:04pm.
    Most wanted: Blast attack, Lodar, Peekablue, Twistoid, and Despara!

  10. #10
    Clown Prince of Darkness Benedict Judas Hel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Toyguru's Canon: What do we keep going forward? What do we drop?
    It all goes. Let the buyer imagine his/her own stories just like the original toys. Just a brief description of powers and allegiance/motivation. That's all that is needed.
    "Wheresoever on earth he dwells, man is prey to two weaknesses: the need to pray and the need to love."-Marquis de Sade

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    Heretical Vintage Purist and Non-Fan Extraordinaire!

  11. #11
    Rainbow Warrior Irian's Avatar
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    I like this part regarding the origin of the (Power of the) Universe:
    • Before the beginning of time the Gods of the multiverse convene in the Hall of Power to create the Five Dimensions – the Dimensions of Eternia, Despondos and Infinita, the Timeless Dimension of Trolla and the Nameless Dimension
    • After the completion of creation the Gods cast their aura across the universe as a wave of power, giving rise to all forms of life and intelligence.
    • Before they leave the universe the Gods hide their magic in the form of a star – the Star Seed – deep within the core of a small planet at the center of the Dimension of Eternia – the planet Eternia
    • The immortal four-armed giant Procrustus is tasked to guard the Star Seed and the Gods’ Magic within Eternia’s core
    • Over millenia the Gods’ Magic slowly seeps out, blessing many wise Eternian wizards with the power and wisdom to control and tap into these great magic energies for both good and evil


    I like how/why Keldor went into exile

    I like Adam going on a quest to become He-Man (just without the techno vest and electronic Power Sword)

    I like the Prophecy regarding Adam and Adora

    I like Castle Grayskullman as the spirit of Grayskull in physical form.

    I like "The New Adventures" happening in space, not the future. I like She-Ra and other Heroic Warriors joining. I like things happening on Eternia while He-Man is away.

  12. #12
    Heroic Warrior Dinobot's Avatar
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    I'm pretty easy going with new stuff, so there are a lot of things in the CLASSICS canon (seriously, nobody refers to Filmation as "Lou Scheimer's canon", or the Jetlag cartoon as "Jack Olesker's canon") I don't mind, but if you want specifics:

    Stuff I liked
    -Multiple He-Men throughout history

    -Expansion of Preternia/Powers of Grayskull era

    -He-Ro being the origin of the sword, King Grayskull being the origin of the bloodline (not a perfect solution, but much better than other attempts to shoehorn both into the story)

    -Inclusion of the Son of He-Man era. I know this isn't popular with the fan base at large, but to me, new era=more characters=more story. I'm fine with Future Eternia existing along with Preternia.

    -New characters. I'm always excited about new characters, and even though none of the new guys are going to be my absolute favorites, I can't really say I hate any of them. In fact, I hope we can get some more in the line somewhere down the road.

    -Despara

    -Orko being a "secret agent". This was another unpopular change, but I like the idea of Orko obfuscating stupidity to serve some other purpose.

    -New Adventures being set in the present.

    -SOME death. I think the stakes should be higher, and death is natural in events such as rebellions and wars. On the other hand...

    Stuff I didn't like
    -POINTLESS death. While I feel Man-At-Arm's death could have been portrayed better in the mini-comic, it does feel like a natural conclusion to his story. Not everyone gets saved, not everyone has a happy ending. However, mentioning that Stratos died in a throwaway line doesn't add much to the mythos. Some of this is due to the weakness of telling a large story on cardbacks, but I'd like a little more than "Mermista killed Mer-Man".

    -Cloned swords. How does one do that, anyway?

    -Prophecy of the Twins. I don't like prophecies in fiction. They give away the ending.

    -Jitsu's real name being "Chopper". I am indifferent on the real names, and I understand why they used it, but it just seems silly as a real name. I use it as a former codename.

    -Frosta's power coming from her wand.

    -Rio Blast's bio. I take what I want from the bios and ignore what I don't like, but Rio Blast seemed like a perfect opportunity to tie the Horde Techno-Virus into the modern era. Instead, Rio is an alien. It feels like a wasted opportunity.

    -Horde Prime being in charge of the Horde. I realize this is more Filmation than Classics, but I prefer Hordak to be the head honcho of the Horde. I say he killed his brother and took over.

    -Rattlor and Tung Lashor joining the Horde. Again, more Filmation than anything, but I'm not a fan.

  13. #13
    Evil Master of Laceration mikescab's Avatar
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    For me, I never liked the concept of Keldor and Randor being related. I'd rather have Skeletor be a demon from another dimension trying to conquer Eternia and He-Man being a lone warrior on a cat much like Frazetta stuff stated earlier.
    Mike Scabs

  14. #14
    All Era-Warrior Barnster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    • Were the multiple He-Men through the ages a good idea?
    • Should the Trollans stay a godlike race?
    • Is the idea of Adora running around as Despara a good one?
    • Was splitting Zodak and Zodac into two separate characters a good idea?
    • Do we want to keep Light Hope with a physical form?

    1. Were the multiple He-Men through the ages a good idea?


    It depends. I like the idea itself but it needs some fine-tuning. First of all, they should not be called "He-Man". They are protectors of the Power of Grayskull and only get a small dose of this power, but just enough to become legends in eternian history. Only Adam is destined to be the one true He-Man.

    2. Should the Trollans stay a godlike race?


    No, definitely not.

    3. Is the idea of Adora running around as Despara a good one?


    I do not read the new comics. I don't know what's going on there but I'm under the impression people seem to like it.

    4. Was splitting Zodak and Zodac into two separate characters a good idea?

    Sharing the same name is very unfortunate but overall I think this was a good idea. I prefer Zodak by the way.

    5. Do we want to keep Light Hope with a physical form?

    I really like his physical form, but he should only use it for special occasions. First an foremost he's a flickering beam of light.
    Maybe Marzo as an archenemy was the biggest thing to happen to Mekaneck, but as far as Marzo was concerned...it was Tuesday.

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    Le Samourai kantboy2's Avatar
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    You guys are confused.

    For Masters of the Universe CLASSICS; this is what you have, a hodge podge of every single MOTU narrative rolled into one.

    After 2015, then we can discuss a new canon. (He got beheaded, but what can you do?)
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    Heroic Warrior enoch's Avatar
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    I would like to throw out all the 200x stuff. That really hurt the mythos. And hate how they looked. Would rather have new 52 version instead.

  17. #17
    hashbrown MotU VS. DC Andy Adams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedict Judas Hel View Post
    It all goes. Let the buyer imagine his/her own stories just like the original toys. Just a brief description of powers and allegiance/motivation. That's all that is needed.
    I didn't hate or even mind the classics bios and story but i'm with Mr. Hel on this one.
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  18. #18
    Elder Councilman
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    I flat-out refuse to add the cloned sword thing to my canon, or the thing about Teela being a clone created by Skeletor. Fisto is her daddy, and that's that.
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  19. #19
    Heroic Warrior DO4M's Avatar
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    Thinking...
    Not too fond of the Sword Protectors being called "He-Men" I could at most tolerate Oo-Larr being called "He-Man" since we can use the excuse that the Power of Grayskull uses Oo-Larr's appearance to change teenage Adam's body to He-Man. (As Adam grows older, the Power of Grayskull begins to slowly change He-Man's appearance until he ends up looking exactly like Adam.)

    I would "Tweak" the whole Sword Quest, "techno sword" bit and Cloned swords. The Tech-Sword is a sort of "Half Sword Emulator" for Adam. Adora gets one too, made out of He-Ro's Staff and Gem. (Adora's half sword was the one that belonged to Skeletor and was corrupted by evil. He-Ro's sword purifies evil.)

    Despara: I'd keep her. Having a Mega Female Dog Adora is a lot better than being brainwashed into believing that the EVIL HORDE are good people. Especially when they call themselves the EVIL HORDE out loud!

    The Guardians of Not Oa but Trolla... Get rid of that ASAP!

    Keep both ZodaC and ZodaK.

    Light Hope is not a physical form except for the Final Battle on Etheria.

    On Spector: Reduce his role on the story to occasional cameo. Use him to justify any continuity hiccups that can't be easily explained.
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  20. #20
    Heroic Warrior air23cnhit's Avatar
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    I've never followed his so called "Canon" anyway. It sucked. I've always used the vintage bios, and made up any other ones, whether they were good or evil. That's what I did as a kid. Used my imagination.
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  21. #21
    Heroic Warrior gbagok's Avatar
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    • Were the multiple He-Men through the ages a good idea?
    I like there being multiple heroes like Vikor and Oo-Lar. Calling them "He-Men" and giving them the Sword of Grayskull goes too far, but champion heroes existing in the history of Eternia and as part of the overall mythology is cool and I'll fight at least for Vikor because he's got a lot of potential.
    • Should the Trollans stay a godlike race?
    I have no problem with powerful god-like being also being Trollans, but the Trollans being childlike creatures is something I'd prefer to keep rather than making them all into the Guardians of Oa. That said, I think it's cool if some of them are the Yoda to the Cosmic Enforcers' Jedi Order.
    • Is the idea of Adora running around as Despara a good one?
    I'm not wild about that one honestly. I think Despara looks like a good evil Horde queen character, but I don't like Adora being her.
    • Was splitting Zodak and Zodac into two separate characters a good idea?
    Yes it was genius, especially since Iceman and I did it first.
    • Do we want to keep Light Hope with a physical form?
    I have no problem with him having a physical form. Even if he usually still appears as the shaft of light, I think it's silly to say he can't ever have this humanoid form. It's not essential though, so whatever.

    Also:
    • I think cloning the Swords was a lame way to explain a second sword
    • overemphasizing the He-Man's sword in general is a bad idea because it devalues CG
    • removing Gray and He-Ro from He-Man's ancestry wasn't a good choice IMO
    • Bringing back the Tale of Teela origin for Teela is interesting only if they play up that it effectively makes Skeletor her "father." But if you don't want to go there, drop it.
    • Randomly killing off beloved characters is garbage. Don't do that. This isn't Game of Thrones and frankly it stinks when Martin does it too.
    Last edited by gbagok; Yesterday at 04:45pm.
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  22. #22
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Jettison all of it. It is all garbage. It can go straight in the trash.

  23. #23
    Musculation Master Jokubas's Avatar
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    I like the unified timeline that combined all eras (I could nitpick details, but the concept is sound).

    The multiple He-Men thing is interesting. It wouldn't be something I'd need to see again in the future, but it helps build up the legend. The one note I'd have to make, is that I still want Adam to be a special He-Man. Whether he be part of a prophecy, or simply break the cycle all on his own power, I want him (and Adora) to be special. MotUC said this was true, and then just had He-Ro and Skeleteen repeating the cycle into the future.

    I'm okay with there being a Son of He-Man era. I don't want it to just be a rehash of MotU with new characters though.

    The Sword of Protection being a clone is ridiculous. The Sword of Power and the Sword of Protection should simply be the "two halves of the Power Sword" (might need some renaming there, but that's fine), and potentially even split recently.

    I don't want any of the deaths. Good writing has nothing to do with deaths, and everything to do with the writing. I think deaths can be justified in He-Man, I don't think any of the MotUC ones were. Look, if the heroes quest to cure stuff left and right, why would they just kill Man-at-Arms? When they don't kill most of the villains? That transformation is just a deus ex machina for the villains.

    I don't know the details, but I'm okay with Despara. Her original origin didn't seem to properly address the fact that she's been entirely raised by these villains. I don't want her to be a monster either, but it makes sense for her to fit in better with the rest of the Horde. And while Hordak is already kind of a Darth Vader to Horde Prime's Palpatine, I think it's kinda neat to make Adora a Darth Vader to Hordak.

    Zodac/Zodak's fine with me. I like finding ways to justify significantly different versions of characters from the past existing in one timeline.

    I don't have a problem with taking Trollans seriously. And I honestly feel like if we had a show that had the Unnamed One or something similar as a villain, people could have learned to see a faceless, cloaked, floating wraith as at least as menacing as any other He-Man villain. I think even Filmation established that Orko was legitimately powerful in his home realm. All that said, I don't like solidifying the cosmos enough to just put them in a role like that.

  24. #24
    Heroic Warrior air23cnhit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    Jettison all of it. It is all garbage. It can go straight in the trash.
    Here! Here! I like this synopsis.
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  25. #25
    Heroic Warrior
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    I personally find the canon, more or less created by Ibentmymanthing, in the class of stories, to be the best, most pleasing and most coherent canon for MOTUC. I love his version about how Mosquitor joined the Evil Horde, for one thing.
    To say nothing of his extraordinary writing skills and abillity to tell a compelling story! His talents in those departments far exceeds that of Toyguru's in my opinion.

    To keep this post on track, I have never paid much notice to Toyguru's canon, and I doubt I'll be starting now...

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