MOTUC Bios & Canon Discussion (updated as bios become available)

[MegaGearMax]

I love the new bios and King Grayskull but I need to unwrap my brain around the the continuity set in the 200x stuff and instead keep strictly to the bios as it's clearly a whole new continuity with inspiration from all the previous canons - trying to merge them all just makes my head hurt.....

As I read more bio's, even as I watched 200X, some ideas worked (Tuvar and Baddhra, The Snakemen, Zodak, Marzo, Ohdipus) and some ideas didn't (Fisto being Teela's father and human giant fist, The "Masters", Techie Tri-Klops, Despondos instead of Etheria, dumb Whiplash and Clawful). Too bad we couldn't have a say or vote as to how the canon would go. Alot of it could get pretty confusing trying to merge two very different continuities (The early mini-comic power suits vs power sword transformation).

[Baena]

Not going to continue to labourous quote on each point I agree or don't agree with.

We've all had it out already on the KG storyline.

But I do have some points.

Grayskull vs. Greenskull... I'm actually more inclined to agree with Val in that I've also always kind of figured the green was from a moss or a lichen because the castle is THAT OLD.
Mark Taylor's sculpt shows that, it's a gray blue plastic, with green spray painted over everything. Skull incluced.

But I also laugh with Emiliano on the whole Glut guy naming it after his wife, Gray. So there you go.

King Grayskull cheapening He-Man? I think you guys are missing the point that Adam still was the "chosen one". Randor wasn't. Keldor wasn't. Could they wield the power had they been given the opportunity? Who knows? But Adam and Adora were chosen, prophesied about, whatever, to become respectively He-Man and She-Ra.

How did KG get the power? Well, again, all we got was a 20 min. episode with no opportunities to further explain things. It was more of a very abbreviated bedtime story of the events. Again, I chalk that up as a leave it to your imagination, which is half the fun of any line, and possible story fodder for future stories.

Again, those against KG have their arguing points, which are valid to the individual. But one thing we all can't shake and that's the fact that Mattel is holding onto King Grayskull and using him as much as anything else in the mythos. He's not going away.
Look, I wish I would wish away Prince Adam as I feel from my perspective he cheapens He-Man. But I can't. He's a part of the mythos.

[JVS3]

I think you being an original mini-comic guy and me being a Filmation guy will always be the dividing line.
It's what we got attached to as kids, so it will always dominate our preferred MOTU story-telling direction.

Don't get me wrong.
I completely understand why Mattel has to use the bio info they have handy (classic mini + MYP cartoon).
It's a legal issue.
And I support it from a creator POV. Business is business and sometimes you have to grit your teeth and bear it.
But the fan in me will never like it. So I will always have my fan geek-out moments here where people understand.

[Baena]

I think you being an original mini-comic guy and me being a Filmation guy will always be the dividing line.
It's what we got attached to as kids, so it will always dominate our preferred MOTU story-telling direction.

I think you're absolutely right.
I'll admit it, I'm a bit stubborn. And KG does appeal to the pre-filmation crowd.
He is in a sense, what we all thought He-Man should be originally.

I could almost see the whole minicomic "He-Man and the Power Sword" re-told using a young King Grayskull instead of He-Man.

I think you should have your fan geek out moments more often... It's fun no?

And on the other hand, I do recognize that the King Grayskull story is teetering on the side of too vague of vague.
It really shouldn't have been a 20 minute storytelling of such a supposedly important character of the mythos. If they wanted to create him, they should've devoted more time and more thought into how it all could work out with everything.

But for this fan? I like what we've gotten, and look forward to seeing where they are taking this train.

I think with MotUClassics and the storyline their piecing together, one fig at a time, there has been more thought put into it and I think we'll see it play out a little more as we get the figures that would tie to that era.

[PaTrIcKfOgArTy]

And I being a 200x storyline guy has to adjust as well. Even though King Grayskull is "new", his role and influence in 200x and the bio are different between canons...exhausting, lol.

[darkluke74]

My personal point of view is that the KG story would be ok but it should "happens" much more in the past than it is supposed to happen.
I mean it would be a good explanation about castle grayskull and the power sword, only those facts should happens some 1.000 years before he-man.
i actually don't even like the keldor stuff. I like keldor as former identity of skeletor, but I don't like the fact that he is the randor brother. This is a non-sense to me.

[Baena]

My personal point of view is that the KG story would be ok but it should "happens" much more in the past than it is supposed to happen.
I mean it would be a good explanation about castle grayskull and the power sword, only those facts should happens some 1.000 years before he-man.

Again, according to the Sorceress, it happend an "eon" ago.

So that could be a thousand years or more ago.

EDIT: Oh snap!
It looks like Matty has confirmed that there is no official cannon, and that it's in the fan's hands.

So see? We're all free to live in our own little MotU Worlds of our own creation. (As if we weren't already?)

It is nice to see that they do recognize that all MotU eras have their individual fans. Some fans cross over into other eras, some wish to stay in what they like best, and that's cool.

Yes I know that is SOOOOO yesterday's news. I'm late, as usual.

[phantom1592]

I think I'll just twist the story around in my own mind.

In my mind KG was NOT the first defender of Castle Grayskull. He was given the power by the current Sorceress, same as Adam. Unlike Adam he chose to never go back to the "human" Identity. There were a few times when He-man lost his sword in Filmation and he was afraid we'd "never see Prince Adam again" Also as "KING" Grayskull didn't need a secret Id to protect people.

As he Died he returned the power to sword so the sorceress could pass it on.

That's MY story And doesn't really contradict anything we saw. If the episode had been an hour and a half.... maybe they could have included it!

[darkluke74]

phantom1592:
In my mind KG was NOT the first defender of Castle Grayskull.

so You think that KG get the name from the castle and not viceversa?

[phantom1592]

phantom1592:
In my mind KG was NOT the first defender of Castle Grayskull.

so You think that KG get the name from the castle and not viceversa?

Yep!

Same as everyone else he calls down the power too, just didn't return it and ruled as "King Grayskull" or possibly King OF Grayskull shortened down through the centuries.


And since the castle looks so scary and evil and that's obviously NOT the image he wanted to portray.... He threw a coat of paint on the castle.

The white castle is really the weakest part of the story, but work with what you got.

[darkluke74]

The white castle is really the weakest part of the story, but work with what you got.

yes, the white castle is the bad part. I always imagined Grayskull as an ancient castle, built in a dark era, like our middle age but even worst

When I was a kid I didn't imagine the power of the castle (the power of grayskull) as a 100% good think. In my personal opinion it's just a Huge power and if it was, or is, good or evil it would depends on who has it in hands.

[King Kahn]

Ugh. That's another thing I really don't like, which we've discussed before.
King Grayskull just had the power... that's it, it was just there.

IMO, a much stronger concept is power from inside Castle Grayskull is granted upon a user.

Someone just having the power for no good reason is weak sauce for me.
That's not a good origin.

King Grayskull: origin of the power, bigger than He-Man, stronger than He-Man, center point of the He-Man legacy.
I mean no offense to it's creator when I say that King Grayskull comes off as a major Mary Sue legacy.

see i always looked at KG as having to PROVE himself worthy of weilding the power. sure he had the innate abilty to "wield" it but had to go through the trials to be "allowed" to tap into it.

and in THIS canon marlena could still be from earth so that makes the twins special.

i see it as a cycle that repeats when needed and only a worthy successor can wield the power. miro, randor and to an extent keldor couldnt be he-man.

however that doesnt mean skeletor can TWIST the power for his own purpose.

just because i wield a gun and am the only one that can use it doesnt mean someone cant take out the bullets and find a way to use the bullets to their advantage

[darkluke74]

...I think that of course not everybody is capable to handle the POG, but the more wise or poweful can do it and use the power to do what they want.....even skeletor could, just he-man is stronger and he is very difficult to defeat..

[danielsan52]

I think it would be cool if....the reason we have a Savage He-Man and Green Goddess, would be that a curse was placed upon the kingdom of Eternos, turning them into Savage people with no memory of their kingdom. After He-Man uses the power sword, the curse is broken and things go back to the way they were, including Savage He-man returning to Prince adam, and The Goddess, returning to the Sorceress.

[Poe Ghostal]

I guess I'm the only one who likes the canon of the DC miniseries?

After that, I'd go, in order, early mini-comics, MVC, MYP, Filmation, NA, movie.

[Lay Ze-Man]

Grayskull vs. Greenskull... I'm actually more inclined to agree with Val in that I've also always kind of figured the green was from a moss or a lichen because the castle is THAT OLD.
Mark Taylor's sculpt shows that, it's a gray blue plastic, with green spray painted over everything. Skull incluced.

But I also laugh with Emiliano on the whole Glut guy naming it after his wife, Gray. So there you go.

But see, at the time, none of those people had ANY IDEA about how much impact those figures and vehicles and playsets and box art and mini-comics would have, how influential they would be and what fuel they'd become for the imaginations of millions.

So IMO, they can be given somewhat of a pass for not having everything lined up and making perfect sense. I think they were mostly just doing a job.

Mattel on the other hand, with everything from official stories to fan knowledge, has TONS of ideas about MotU from which to cull.
So if all this time later, they're still giving it the "good enough for now" treatment, that's not cutting it IMO.

I feel that Facebook statement to be kind of a double-edged sword.
I mean, I think it goes without saying that any fan can do the "salad bar" thing Val mentioned with any property.
But I guess that's somewhat cool that they recognize that.

But I also see it as a pretty bad cop-out which lets them off the hook.
"Oh, you don't like our Buzz-Off story? Just make up your own! We just put that on there for the heck of it. Yours is as good as, if not better than ours!"

How did KG get the power? Well, again, all we got was a 20 min. episode with no opportunities to further explain things. It was more of a very abbreviated bedtime story of the events.

They could've easily done a 2 or 3-part episode, IF they actually had that much story to tell about KG, which based on his concept ("How do we get this cool original 4H He-Man design into the show?") I suspect they didn't.

Don't get me wrong.
I completely understand why Mattel has to use the bio info they have handy (classic mini + MYP cartoon).
It's a legal issue.
And I support it from a creator POV. Business is business and sometimes you have to grit your teeth and bear it.

Yeah, that's understood, but why can't they come up with something new?
I just don't accept that "Oh, that was gonna be Faker's story for Season 3 so slap that on there and be done with it."

Why not give it some thought and try to come up with the best story, and all else fails you can regurgitate some MYP ideas.
But why not put a little more effort into it than that?

see i always looked at KG as having to PROVE himself worthy of weilding the power. sure he had the innate abilty to "wield" it but had to go through the trials to be "allowed" to tap into it.

Really? I thought the point of that episode was that the trials were something of a ruse, their only point being to have KG realize that he had the power all along.
It's less him earning the power, and more like an mutant from the X-Men coming to realize what they can do.

however that doesnt mean skeletor can TWIST the power for his own purpose.

But if you go with KG, how would he? The SWORD channels the spirit/power of King Grayskull.
And Skeletor apparently has no idea of KG's existence (which is in and of itself a little weird . . . you think Hordak would've told Skelly about him).

So again, without the Power Sword, and the destiny to call upon KG, the power of Grayskull is absolutely USELESS to anyone besides Adam. And that completely cheapens Grayskull compared to the dark, foreboding place of mysterious power it was always depicted as previously.

So what's the point of Skeletor taking it over? A new house?

yes, the white castle is the bad part. I always imagined Grayskull as an ancient castle, built in a dark era, like our middle age but even worst

When I was a kid I didn't imagine the power of the castle (the power of grayskull) as a 100% good think. In my personal opinion it's just a Huge power and if it was, or is, good or evil it would depends on who has it in hands.

I agree 100%. That's why it was so important to keep Skeletor OUT.

IMO "the secrets of Castle Grayskull" should all but remain just that: secrets.

Why it was built and by whom. Why it's so scary and decrepit on the outside but full of magic and wonder and advanced technology within. How old it is. If that is an actual skull (as Mark Taylor suggested, in a recent interview) or not. How it came to be that the Sorceress came to know about its power, and how much even she knows about it. How did Skeletor know about its power?

This is all intriguing stuff that should be given a morsel at a time to keep the mystery interesting.

But . . . BAM! It's a castle with a WHITE skull built by a dude called GRAYskull who somehow is totally awesome and wields incredible power that he doesn't even know about until deep into his adulthood, because he's just that goodhearted . . . I dunno, that's kind of lacking.

[Baena]

You know, for a guy named "Lay Ze-Man"... You're sure workin' hard on your posts!

[Lay Ze-Man]

You know, for a guy named "Lay Ze-Man"... You're sure workin' hard on your posts!

What can I say? Multiquote is my friend.

Oh, and I found that Don Glut quote about Grayskull:

There's a somewhat interesting story behind the name Grayskull. In the Polaroid's, at least, the prototype of the castle looked gray, not its true green. At the time I was married to a girl named Linda whose maiden name was Gray. As I was not going to get any byline credit for writing these stories, I thought I'd put in some in joke references that friends of mine in the know might spot. Hence, the castle became Castle Grayskull. (Ironically, Linda and I split up between my writing of these stories and the actual release of the toy for which she was named.)

[The_Robin]

King WHO??

I only know He-Ro..

[Baena]

Oh, and I found that Don Glut quote about Grayskull:

Waitaminute... Linda Gray... Now where have I heard that name before?

Oh wait, that's the acress on Dallas, not LINDA GARY, voice talent behind Teela, Evil Ly, Sorceress and many, many others.

[Lay Ze-Man]

HA!!! What a crazy coincidence!

As a side-note, that Glut interview is kind of funny, and kind of sad.

Seems he had no passion or interest in MotU whatsoever, and feels ripped off that he never got royalties for characters he helped create.

He came up with the name Eternia, even!

[grenadaspice]

But . . . BAM! It's a castle with a WHITE skull built by a dude called GRAYskull who somehow is totally awesome and wields incredible power that he doesn't even know about until deep into his adulthood, because he's just that goodhearted . . . I dunno, that's kind of lacking.

Maybe, but then again, I think it's because a lot of us are bias He-Man fans who, when most of us were between the ages of 5-8, took Mattel's word as gospel when they called He-Man the "most powerful man in the universe". If you're pro early mini-comics, I would say besides the fact the He-Man wore he's vest as a strength booster/force field and that the Battle Ram was his main weapon, he did nothing in those early comics to even carry that handle. If anything, Filmation actually is responsible for making He-Man a more powerful entity, though to put He-Man in the same power category as Superman, the Mighty Thor, Hulk, Hercules, or the Sentry is a ridiculous thought. With that said, I love the combining of the mini-comics origin of He-Man with the MVP version. From how I read his origin, he was able to turn into He-Man with the half Power Sword, but with half a Power Sword comes half the power, so he needed the techno vest to enhance his strength and invulnerability until he was able to find the other half of the Power Sword to combine and have the full power of Grayskull. I think it's a great origin. I can't wait to hear them try to explain the existence of She-Ra's sword. Also, i have no problems with Faker's origin since it was explained how he would come to be in Season 3 of the MYP toon. Only problem though is that Faker wasn't taken by Tri-Klops in the Royal Scrapyard, he was, if anything, found by Tri-Klops near Snake Mountain after being defeated in the episode "Courage of Adam". Why the need to change that part since it was already explained that that the He-Man robot was to be be Faker?

[Darkwolf]

This does bring up an interesting point..... The descendants of KG can access his power through the sword, and by that tree, Skeletor is also descended from KG..........

HOLY CRAP!

Good eye - didn't snap to that until you mentioned it. I really like the idea of Skeletor being He-Man's evil uncle. Kinda like Scar in the Lion King.

[Lay Ze-Man]

grenadaspice:

What you quoted, I'm talking about how the way they told the King Grayskull story, it stripped away almost all of the mystery about Castle Grayskull for me.

[Mr. Shokoti]

While I'm definitely more fond of the Filmation continuity than the mini-comics or the MYP toon, I just hope He-Man and Battle Cat have personalities in what ever comic, toon, or movie the new toyline hopefully spawns. While I loved that the 2002 show had a continuous storyline(unlike Filmation's one 2-parter and the rest done-in-1 episodes), I hated that the lead character of the show had the weakest personality. Say what you will about Filmation's faults in animation, they had a GREAT He-Man; a perfect voice who gave great oneliners like a John McClane Conan.

Since you guys are going back and forth on the power source for He-Man, can't you have it both ways? King Grayskull's powers are given only to his blood relatives that hold both halves of the power sword, but since Grayskull's Spirit resides within Castle Grayskull, Skeletor(or any other villain a story calls for) wants to get inside the castle in order to use the Spirit's knowledge of the Elders(or whatever powers the Sorceress possesses) to gain powers of his own.