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Thread: MOTUC Bios & Canon Discussion (updated as bios become available)

  1. #401
    Bashasaurus Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    It is my observation that there is a relationship between how knowledgeable one is about the mythology of Masters of the Universe and how receptive he is to the Masters of the Universe Classics biographies.

    Those with a limited knowledge of the property seem to have the least difficulty accepting the "real" names of the characters and their respective biographies, while those with a thorough knowledge of the property seem to have the most difficulty reconciling them with the existing mythology.

    In other words, the more one knows about the existing mythology, the harder it is to make these new biographies fit.
    I agree, but I think it's totally undertandable.
    Those of us having a greater knowledge of the MOTU history, usually have also a greater bond to it, so it becomes more difficult to accept changes, and easier to see contraddictions.

    Edit: Audric, I dont' think there is anythign insulting to this, it's just seems to be true for many people, not everyone.
    Some people do like changes, and that's fine.

    I have problems at accepting MOTUC is its own things just because it isn't how it has been presented by Mattel:
    They never said it was a reboot, a fresh take to MOTU. If that was the case any change was game, and like it or not, more accpetable for everyone of us.
    The line was instead presented as something meant to bring order and filling the blanks, merging concepts and complete the mythology in a more consistent fashion.
    That's the difference IMO.

  2. #402
    Heroic Warrior Audric's Avatar
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    Emiliano, if I can understand and respect your position on this, why doesn't that seem to happen the other way around? (not directed at you personally btw)

    You don't see how the post calling those that are more accepting to the classics changes are basically novices to the property can be insulting?
    There is just no reason or need for that claim to validate why some people are more accepting.
    Just because a lot of people don't like the changes, doesn't mean there aren't lots of people that do like them.

    People who are content rarely voice their opinion. And why would they even bother when they are being overshadowed by all the negativity and unbased claims like this one?
    Last edited by Audric; June 14, 2009 at 06:47am.
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  3. #403
    MOTUClassics.Com Daniel Lynch's Avatar
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    The intial observation, by itself, is simple. The more storied you are in the mythos, the more invested you are. And when a change comes along, the more resistant you are.

    If there is the notion that the more "informed" opinion is correct, then it is an insult. And it's an insult that's been done to death. It happens anytime a fanboy disagreement comes up to dismiss dissention.



    Emiliano,
    I agree that MOTUC wasn't said to be a reboot, but merging concepts is going to create conflicts. Even you've said you and Val were going to tackle the KG/He-Ro conflict by merging them. We may not like all the changes, but some of them are going to happen even if they're only trying to merge and fill-in blanks. I don't know where the line is between merging conflicts and doing reboots. My line is drawn at the techno vest/power sword and when exactly Adam becomes He-Man. I don't get that.

    For me, I think it's easier to look at MOTUC like a clean slate. I am hoping Savage He-Man is a separate character that battled Demo-Man sometime between KG's era and He-Man's, for example. But I understand that wouldn't please everyone.
    Last edited by Daniel Lynch; June 14, 2009 at 07:35am.

  4. #404
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Audric:

    JVS3—who has a thorough knowledge of Masters of the Universe, having authored several volumes of Masters of the Universe comic books—posted that he does not enjoy some of the concepts in the Masters of the Universe Classics biographies.

    KingRandor82—who by his own admission, has a limited knowledge of Masters of the Universe—replied that he does enjoy some of the concepts in the Masters of the Universe Classics biographies.

    I simply responded that this exchange is illustrative of an observation that I have made regarding receptiveness to the Masters of the Universe Classics biographies.

    The terms limited and thorough only denote degree or quantity; the only value associated with either term is that which one assigns to it.

    In other words, being described as having one degree of knowledge or another is only an insult if one holds that one is more legitimate than the other.

    I certainly did not imply this, and I apologize if it came across differently.

  5. #405
    Demon Hunter Slayor's Avatar
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    Does anyone else see the contradictions between King Grayskull's bio and He-Ro's?

    From King Grayskull's bio: Heroically mastering the secret power of his sword, Grayskull™ fought side-by-side with the cosmic warrior He-Ro against both the evil Hordak and King Hssss™.

    Although Grayskull™ eventually fell before Hordak’s magic, he was able to preserve his powers inside the sword, so that one day his descendants could reclaim the power and call upon Grayskull's name whenever evil threatens the peace of Eternia.

    That certainly doesn't fit with He-Ro's bio. In Grayskull's bio, Grayskull already had his sword when he was fighting alongside He-Ro. He-Ro's bio changes the name of the Sword of Power and the origin of how King Grayskull received it.

    I'm not even going into the whole business of "He" being used as a source of power.
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  6. #406
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    I agree, but I think it's totally undertandable.
    Those of us having a greater knowledge of the MOTU history, usually have also a greater bond to it, so it becomes more difficult to accept changes, and easier to see contraddictions.
    I don't even think it's that. I've been there since Christmas 82' and I don't find it difficult to accept the new bios. It's another alternate take on He-Man.

    I think it might be the idea that some of us who can accept alternate versions of He-Man (Pre-Filmation, 200X, Dolph Lundren flick), without ignoring them can accept the new bios better than fans who think there is only one version of MOTU.

    Or it could simply be the frustration of not seeing how everything fits immediately like He-Man media USUALLY does. Fans probably aren't used to this method of storytelling and can easily get frustrated trying to piece it together.

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  7. #407
    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    I'm going to chime in on this front, too.

    I have been a lifelong MOTU fan. I love every version, every toon, all of it. While I am certain there are many here (and likely others elsewhere) who are more versed than I in its mythology, I am no stooge in that regard. I can hold my own here among the biggest He-Fans and She-Ravers on Earth.

    That said, I also (occassionally having some difficulty digesting certain tidbits, as others have) am greatly enjoying the new storyline put forth by the MOTU Classics Biographies. Some of the names are silly, sure. (I won't attempt to defend most of the original names, either, though. Familiarity has taken the goofiness out of them for us.) Some new elements are odd. That, IMO, is because we are all so married to what we know about the property. (There is nothing wrong with that, either. We know what we like!) Divorcing ourselves from the old ideas to accept the new is hard, and honestly, as Toyguru has said, not even necessary. MOTU is different for everyone here, an avatar for the activity of our own imaginations!

    Whether we like the new direction or not (and whether Mattel blatantly stated it as such or not), I do not think that our opinions either way reflect our "level of fandom" for He-man. I really like the new Bios. No one is going to tell me that I am less of a fan because of it, and they certainly won't get off telling me that I know less about the series based on that either.

    Of course, we are all entitled to our own opinions. For me, being MOTU is enough. IMO, Mattel has done nothing that doesn't feel MOTU here, and I look at the new chronology as a great, refreshing, all-encompassing take on the property, which fortunately and perhaps unfortunately will mix and mash several elements of the greatest action hero of all time into one epic tale. I suppose I am the lucky fan who loves all of it, from Filmation and NA to MYP, the mini-comics (all of them!), the storybooks, the coloring books, and of course, the fiction cranked out marvelously by Val, Emiliano, and the gang at MVC. It's all good, to me, and I cannot wait to eat it all up!
    Not to sound like a creepy cheerleader for Uki, but it's nice to know there is at least one person on this forum who is extremely positive & friendly all the time. I don't think I could be that nice even if you paid me. If we ever give out awards for "forum member of the month", Uki gets my vote. -Mr. Shokoti

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  8. #408
    Retro Artist River's Avatar
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    The following is my opinion.

    Simply put, I just think that these biographies are very poorly written and executed. I'm not expecting Emily Bronte at all, but in my opinion, the current writer doesn't write well. The new canon has actually started making me dislike MOTU. For that matter, maybe new biographies were a bad idea in the first place (would have preferred mini-comics, by artists and writers outside of Mattel).

    It's only a paragraph, but in my opinion, so much more could be done with the space allotted. Mattel is a good maker of toys, but not exactly the best maker of a good story. There is MOTU fiction on this very site (dubbed with the unflattering title of "fan-fiction") that is leaps and bounds ahead of these bios. Generally, I've always found that people outside of Mattel have had the most success with creative MOTU story elements (am thinking of the Filmation writers and artists, as well as those who created the original mini-comics, Golden Books, and so on). Sure, at the heart of most MOTU stories, there is always the basic intent of selling the product. However, that's no excuse to be what I feel is lazy with it or to approach it from a strictly marketing viewpoint.

    Also, for that matter, it's kind of a mute point (IMO) for Mattel to be attempting this at such a late juncture (almost 30+ years after the original conception of the MOTU brand). The whole concept of juxtaposing "classic" figures, which are so heavily influenced by the original designs, against a new vacuous canon doesn't exactly jive well together either. Maybe the idea behind it was nice enough, and maybe it came from a good place... but the thing is, the new biographies aren't doing a very good job at unifying everything. And as I mentioned previously, it doesn't help that they are so poorly written. MOTU never really transcended above "kiddie-pulp" back in the day, but at least that kiddie-pulp that came before had heart and sincerity to it, and it wasn't so self-aware that every bit of fun was consequently drained from it.

    The element that I have disliked the most so far is the "Sword of He" concept. Change is fine, when done well. When it isn't, it tends to work as a detriment and only make things convoluted. When I first read those words... my first thought was, "what a horrible, uncreative name for a sword." My next thought was of something that happens when males get... excited. I don't think that I can type the word here on these message boards. Anyway, in the future- I'm just going to have to be careful and tip-toe around the boards and try to avoid these paragraph length sins against creativity as much as possible. I hate to ignore something MOTU related, but... I think I would rather ignore them than read something else that comes along that makes me think of a big giant *insert colorful imagery here* whenever I look at He-Ro's sword.

    And finally, sorry for this lengthy post. I feel better to have gotten it off my chest- lol.
    Last edited by River; June 14, 2009 at 10:58pm. Reason: :)

  9. #409
    Heroic Warrior Rodster6's Avatar
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    At this early a stage, I cant see how anyone can really judge if the new stories are any good or not. We have only had a small snippet of information in the few figure bios that we have seen.
    I've been a fan of MOTU ever since it first came out when I was three. So far I have not seen anything I have found truely terrible in the bios. Even the real names given.
    I know exactly what I would have done with certain character bios and back stories, but I dont expect that and I am not all that disapointed if what I want doesnt happen, as i dont own the franchise.

  10. #410
    Retro Artist River's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodster6 View Post
    At this early a stage, I cant see how anyone can really judge if the new stories are any good or not. We have only had a small snippet of information in the few figure bios that we have seen.
    I think it's fine that there are members who enjoy the new canon thus far- and to each his/her own. We've seen just short of a year's worth of these biographies however. MOTU might not be around right now at all if we remained silent or passive about things which displeased us. Again though, to each their own.
    Last edited by River; June 14, 2009 at 08:33pm. Reason: typo

  11. #411
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    The trouble with unifying everything is that some things were meant to be their own canon and can't be unified without the new canon becoming extremely convoluted.

    For example, try writing that Barbarian He-Man, Filmation He-Man, NA He-Man, Dolph Lundren He-Man and 200X He-Man were all the same guy at different points. That's what I THINK they might be doing under slow reveals. No one is left out, but you'd need a flowchart in order to read the story of He-Man.

    I'd think that they could have handled the new toyline as Masters of the Universe LEGENDS, not Masters of the Universe CLASSIC. At least by calling it "Legends" you open up the line to different versions of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe. Barbarian He-Man, Filmation He-Man, NA He-Man, Dolph Lundren He-Man and 200X He-Man are all part of the legend of He-Man, that no one story is THE story. Kinda like how Wind Waker unified all of the different interpetations from the various Zelda games.

    The only trouble of a "Legends" type line is instead of unifying all of the eras into one big Master era, it would separate all of the eras. Which would mean there would be a Barbarian Teela, DC Comics Teela, Filmation Teela, NA Teela, Chelsea Fields Teela and 200X Teela. MOTUC seems to be doing the same thing, only keeping all of these different versions of a character as being that same character going through different phases.

    Unless the line got Star Wars big, there's no way we could get so many variations on so many characters...which is probably why it's easier to put everything under MOTUC.

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  12. #412
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    I like Hordak's bio...i dont like the name much but i do like the story they give him

  13. #413
    I am that I am Heidi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    The trouble with unifying everything is that some things were meant to be their own canon and can't be unified without the new canon becoming extremely convoluted.
    I had to check the word convoluted from the dictionary, harhar.

    I think the complexity of different canon's really puts a challenge on the writers, but good and talented writers can tackle such challenges with success. The first thing to come to mind is Emiliano's classic Homecoming - comic. I know opinions vary, but I absolutely loved how it combined NA in to the original story line. And I liked the relationsihps that were evolving in the story. For me, reading Homecoming made me like NA for the first time.

    I am not saying that Val and Emiliano should necessarely write these bios (although I would not object). I am just saying that someone with love and dedication, and talent on top of that can make complex storylines work just well. And I do agree with River - so far these bios are not convincing me. But I'll try to keep my mind open and see how the story unravels.

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  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodster6 View Post
    At this early a stage, I cant see how anyone can really judge if the new stories are any good or not. We have only had a small snippet of information in the few figure bios that we have seen.
    I've been a fan of MOTU ever since it first came out when I was three. So far I have not seen anything I have found truely terrible in the bios. Even the real names given.
    I know exactly what I would have done with certain character bios and back stories, but I dont expect that and I am not all that disapointed if what I want doesnt happen, as i dont own the franchise.
    Pretty much along the lines I was thinking; will I definitely totally love the new canon that Mattel is merging everything together into? That has yet to be seen.

    The fact is it's still very early in the stages, and they've already stated they have a very big, in-depth story they want to tell; we're gonna see a million gaping holes right at the immediate moment that will indeed bring up more questions than they answer; but I'm sure in time it will all make sense.

    I'm not judging anything fine or foul just yet; I want to see how it goes.

    Do I like some of the stuff I've read in the bios so far? Absolutely. Do I find some of it not necessarily the most appealing, and wonder why it was done? Of course, but at the same time, I'm willing to hold out and see if they have something planned with some of those elements before I officially cry foul with them.

    Once we all get a better grasp of the story they're trying to tell, then we can decide if the story they're going with is as idiotic as the idea of Smash Blade He-Man, ok?
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  15. #415
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kai View Post
    I had to check the word convoluted from the dictionary, harhar.

    I think the complexity of different canon's really puts a challenge on the writers, but good and talented writers can tackle such challenges with success. The first thing to come to mind is Emiliano's classic Homecoming - comic. I know opinions vary, but I absolutely loved how it combined NA in to the original story line. And I liked the relationsihps that were evolving in the story. For me, reading Homecoming made me like NA for the first time.

    I am not saying that Val and Emiliano should necessarely write these bios (although I would not object). I am just saying that someone with love and dedication, and talent on top of that can make complex storylines work just well. And I do agree with River - so far these bios are not convincing me. But I'll try to keep my mind open and see how the story unravels.

    Heidi
    See, NA was designed to be tacked onto the back of MOTU. The toys and the cartoons weren't consistent with what came before.

    I'm talking about trying to wedge in different versions of characters that really don't fit. Barbarian He-Man who lived in the jungles is supposed to be the same character as Prince Adam? Another one is Skeletor...how is the 200X version explained? Was Hordak feeling particularly nasty that month?

    I guess really good talent COULD make all of the differing properties work.

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  16. #416
    Loves MOTUC canon! PaTrIcKfOgArTy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uki View Post
    IMO, Mattel has done nothing that doesn't feel MOTU here, and I look at the new chronology as a great, refreshing, all-encompassing take on the property, which fortunately and perhaps unfortunately will mix and mash several elements of the greatest action hero of all time into one epic tale. I suppose I am the lucky fan who loves all of it...it's all good, to me, and I cannot wait to eat it all up!
    I couldn't agree more.

  17. #417
    Wasteland Wanderer Fneh's Avatar
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    the new announcement stated that He-man means "man that wields the sword of He"

    M@A's bio clearly states that he made a power sword for ADAM to use.

    because of this recent announcement it's clear that the 200x sword wasn't capable of transforming adam in any way. afterall, it was a sword for adam to use. Not a sword for adam to transform into he-man with (obviously he couldn't seeing as it's not the sword of he....)

    unless it transformed him into tekno-man!? XD

    So before he had the sword, are we to assume that adam was a warrior that everyone knew was destined for the sword of he?
    If the secret identity thing was scrapped it would give skelly good reason to want the sword - he's Adam's half uncle (or is he quarter uncle now he's merged with demo-man? ) so maybe he believes that blood relation would entitle him to all the power.

    Or are we to assume Adam's mother is descended from grayskull? Maybe she used to be called Marlena of the house of grayskull before she married randor?

  18. #418
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    This picture makes me wonder...is He-Man aware of the Overlords of Trolla?

    And is there anyone else from the past who used the "Sword of He" and was a champion hero of Eternia?

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  19. #419
    Heroic Warrior Neo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    This picture makes me wonder...is He-Man aware of the Overlords of Trolla?

    And is there anyone else from the past who used the "Sword of He" and was a champion hero of Eternia?
    I don't think he is aware... The comic where the Facelessone told He-Man that there is so much he doesn't know and it's a shame that the elders never gave him any information comes to mind. I think that the Classicscontinuity He-Man does have a little more understanding but not by much imo.

    As for your second question. Again, I don't think so. As far as we know the only real great battle that was fought on Eternia since the defeat of the Snakemen was during the Great Unrest. And that battle was fought by the Defenders without the aid of a He-Man.
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  20. #420
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    I'm knowledgable of the old history, and accepting of the new.

    since this isn't that, this is a whole new canon.

    it doesn't change, or alter any of the old canons.

    they exist separately.

    to me, the 200X sword is THE Power Sword. The Sword of Grayskull.

  21. #421
    Heroic Warrior Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    As for your second question. Again, I don't think so. As far as we know the only real great battle that was fought on Eternia since the defeat of the Snakemen was during the Great Unrest. And that battle was fought by the Defenders without the aid of a He-Man.
    I don't think there's anyone else that's wielded the sword based on the stories we're learning, but I do think that it could be written in if they wanted to. I also think that you don't need a great battle or evil faction to need another He-Man.

    Say 200 years before He-Man there was another evil similar to Skeletor we haven't yet heard of. This would have required someone else to pick up and use the sword.

  22. #422
    Hero of Eternia zodak74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slayor View Post
    Does anyone else see the contradictions between King Grayskull's bio and He-Ro's?

    From King Grayskull's bio: Heroically mastering the secret power of his sword, Grayskull™ fought side-by-side with the cosmic warrior He-Ro against both the evil Hordak and King Hssss™.

    Although Grayskull™ eventually fell before Hordak’s magic, he was able to preserve his powers inside the sword, so that one day his descendants could reclaim the power and call upon Grayskull's name whenever evil threatens the peace of Eternia.

    That certainly doesn't fit with He-Ro's bio. In Grayskull's bio, Grayskull already had his sword when he was fighting alongside He-Ro. He-Ro's bio changes the name of the Sword of Power and the origin of how King Grayskull received it.

    I'm not even going into the whole business of "He" being used as a source of power.
    You could say that each of them had their own respective sword. Perhaps He-Ro ended up on Eternia because Grayskull had a similar sword and thus they were drawn together, call it destiny, what-not. Which would lend itself to He-Ro still bequeathing his sword to Grayskull upon his heroic death. "Here, put this one with your sword and keep it safe..." or something like that.
    THEN... you have a sword that Grayskull passes on to He-Man, and another sword that is passed down to She-Ra. I'm sure they have this all sorted out somehow (like they've claimed to before) so it will all make sense once we get all the bios put together... but I can see the gaps and the room for confusion because this was one of the first bios that popped up that I was like "Hey, waitaminute... I thought they said..."

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...pictureid=3328

    This picture makes me wonder...is He-Man aware of the Overlords of Trolla?

    And is there anyone else from the past who used the "Sword of He" and was a champion hero of Eternia?
    It makes me want to see who ends up wielding the sword in the future!
    Last edited by zodak74; June 18, 2009 at 03:33pm. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  23. #423
    Evil Lord of the Deadlift Larry Waters's Avatar
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    I have no issue with wanting to attempt to merge the continuities and attempt to create a coherent He-Universe.

    I do, however, have issues with the writing on the bios. The contradiction between He-Ro's sword story and that of King Grayskull is so blatantly obvious that I don't know how it got out.

    I think Mattel has no editors on the bios.

    All of this being said, I LOVE the line, but think that the story would have been better served had Val and Emiliano handled the Bio-writing chores.

    Quote Originally Posted by zodak74 View Post
    You could say that each of them had their own respective sword. Perhaps He-Ro ended up on Eternia because Grayskull had a similar sword and thus they were drawn together, call it destiny, what-not. Which would lend itself to He-Ro still bequeathing his sword to Grayskull upon his heroic death. "Here, put this one with your sword and keep it safe..." or something like that.
    THEN... you have a sword that Grayskull passes on to He-Man, and another sword that is passed down to She-Ra.
    I could get behind this idea if it is revealed that one sword becomes Skeletor's half and the other is He-Man's half, but I just don't see that happening.

    I think Mattel simply messed up.
    Last edited by Mod-Bot; June 18, 2009 at 04:36pm. Reason: Mod-Bot says be constructive! Please stop posting insults
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  24. #424
    Heroic Warrior Rodster6's Avatar
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    Maybe King Greyskulls sword and He-ros swords are what become the two seperate halves of He-mans power sword?

  25. #425
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    or the Sword of Power and the Sword of Protection.

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