Reply With QuoteUpdated original post w/ Matty Mattel's Facebook post regarding the bios and the many MOTU cannons
And in many ways, a less powerful. Same Filmation gave She-Ra the same brute strength He-Man has AND a whole bunch of other abilities plus even a magical sword with lot more abilities. And Mattel didn't help in that either - 'Most powerful man' and 'THE most powerful woman'Originally Posted by grenadaspice
I tried putting stuff in a somewhat coherent order...I don't know if it makes sense to anyone else but the authority said us fans are who make the lore and I'm a fan so I must be right.
The King Grayskull being in so many ways like He-Man gives me the feeling someone's been playing the Legend of Zelda series. Link and Zelda and Ganon get reborn. Much like here. The Ancients obviously saw the next great evil rising on a certain era, and the member of the bloodline in his prime at the time would get enchanted with the power to counter it. I still think there should've been the era of Preternia, with He-Ro and the Elders fighting and (sssadly) defeating King Hiss. When their life was ending, they could've concentrated their power on a location (there were plenty of magical pools and whatnot in most of classic materials), let's call it The Cave of Power. Then there could've been the era of mr. Grayskull, who built an actual castle on top of that power source and formed a kingdom nowadays ruled by King Randor and dispanded Hordak (with a time anomaly Keldor) to Despondos. Those two could've studied technology and black arts in their absence from the Eternia, Batros being a test subject of if they can actually send forces back there. And finally, Hordak and Keldor try to invade Eternia once more, but are fought off by young Randors troops and Hordak gets disbanded on Etheria this time. Keldor manages to remain on Eternia, perhaps moreso than not because of his royal origin, and then there's the Keldor to Skeletor kind of battle, transformation to Skeletor (although I don't much like the god-like Hordak as portrayed by MYP) the great wall being destroyed (such event was on classic UK comics too) and then the epic battle of good and evil as portrayed in so much lore, release of King Hiss and Hordak once more on Eternia.
The key characters being born again would also explain He-Man of the future without having to send the actual He-Man of our time to the future and leaving most evil beings on Eternia. Skeletor being a time anomaly already enchanted with Hordak's life preservation spell could still be the same - after being defeated in the past and current, there's one more time to try: the future. Skeletor being the actual Overlord of Evil in every single time there is for MotU gives him the deeper meaning he needs despite all of the wannabe snorters, and again sssadly, pawns of Snake Gods.
What Adora? Where?
One more notion about the title Masters of the Universe: Especially since it got translated here as someones who actually rule the universe...I don't want to think the likes of Ram-Man or Mekaneck are in charge. I just don't. Heroic Warriors, Evil Warriors, Evil Horde, Snake Men, Galactic Guardians, Evil Mutants, Great Rebellion. They all have names for themselves. And all those cliques are, in part, Masters of the Universe.
"She-Ra, Princess of Power was no more. That had been the price of freedom."
Updated original post w/ Matty Mattel's Facebook post regarding the bios and the many MOTU cannons
Well, as far as putting everything in a time line, the only thing that sort of changes is the inclusion/existence of King Grayskull. According to the 80s mini-comics, Hordak and King Hiss are bitter enemies from Eternia's past. Not only did we learn that Hordak helped build the 3 towers of Eternia in the "Enter...Buzz Saw Hordak", but we also see the towers being built in "The Powers of Grayskull...the Legend Begins" mini-comic as well. So it should be considererd that He-Ro would have had many battles with Hordak as well. Besides, even though a lot of us consider KG a new concoction from the the MYP/200X canon, whose to say the idea of KG was never on the back burner from the 80s canon which just never got finished being told. Heck, the revelation of Skeletor being Keldor, "Evil Uncle of He-Man" was hinted in one mini-comic that took about 14 years to be fleshed out in this era. I mean, think about it. If the new series was called Powers of Grayskull, maybe, Just maybe, they were planning on introducing KG later on down the line. Heck, you never know. A lot of people think that hooded character in the POG mini-comic was He-Ro, but I alwasy thought it looked a lot like He-Man, so, in turn that COULD be KG. Well, I guess according to Toy Guru, my imagination is just as canon as anything written up and archived, so i guess we can go with that theory...lol
Trust us, KG was created specifically for the MYP cartoon. it's just a well known fact.
We don't think that. He is He-Ro.A lot of people think that hooded character in the POG mini-comic was He-Ro, but I alwasy thought it looked a lot like He-Man, so, in turn that COULD be KG.
There is no dubt about it, it's just another well known fact
The planned 1987 POG series revolved around He-Ro and that minicomic series was created to introduce that character and the new world.
On the other hand, He-Ro's original name was Grayskull (there are multiple documents in our possession that prove that).
So, yes, there was already a character that filled the same role in the classic continuity.
But the new series writer ignored or simplyu didn't know about his existance and came out with KG.
I would have much more preferred to finally see He-Ro and get the story we have been wating for since 1987. I also think he could have been a far more interesting character and not a carbon copy of He-Man.
We actually completed the story and wrote it in our bible for the MVC comic, but never got to use it, neither Mattel seemed interested in using it so far.
And like stated before on couple occasions. I atleast hope you guys get to reveal those plans when Org gets the upgrade and revamp.
He-Man & She-Ra fan and contributor to official Dark Horse MOTU/POP books
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pH6:
I like your take of He-Man being reborn. Here's my musings/ramblings based on it.
And like you say, the fans are right, I'm a fan, so I'm right!
And you're right! We're all right! Isn't being right fun?
So yeah . . . warning, this is gonna be looooooong.
-----
He-Ro was He-Man of his time, King Grayskull was He-Man of his time, and He-Man is, ummm, you got it!
So why can't He-Man just be reborn as He-Man in the modern era?
Well, possibly something about the balance of magic (between Good and Evil) being skewed to the point where He-Man can't fully return on his own.
So that's why the Sorceress and her magic's symbiotic relationship with Grayskull would be so crucial. As long as Grayskull's power (whatever its source/origin, but NOT King Grayskull's spirit/soul/power/magic/energy) is a matter of secrecy, and the Sorceress remains there as its guardian and protectress, it's OK. But once Skeletor happens on the scene, the Sorceress needs a way to bring He-Man back to Eternia.
But it's too late. Evil has already upset the balance too great for the Sorceress' magic, coupled with power from Grayskull itself, to be able to have He-Man be reborn again, as in times past.
The best she can do is to bring forth He-Man's Sword of Power, that will channel Castle Grayskull's power (which the most recent He-Man, King Grayskull, was the last, or only, "He-Man" to tap into its power) to transform a regular human into He-Man, temporarily.
The Sorceress needs to fulfill her role of bestowing this destiny upon someone she knows is beyond corruption, beyond abusing the power for their own gains. And it also must be a young, healthy person, as an older man such as Man-At-Arms, as true-hearted as he is, his body would not be able to withstand the strains of such a transformation.
Adam, son of parents as benevolent and true as you could find, becomes who she is drawn to.
With parents such as Randor, in his own right a true champion of Eternia, and Marlena, an Earthling with courage and determination and wisdom rivaling any woman on Eternia, Adam is truly unique and well-suited for what will be asked of him.
But while the Sorceress is using the spell to call upon the Power Sword, something happens . . . !
Before the Sword can fully materialize, it starts to split!!
As hard as she tries, she cannot keep the sword from splitting!
She watches, powerless, as the Power Sword splits into TWO identical swords.
Identical, save for one small change . . . one sword bears a remarkable jewel!
Immediately, the bejeweled Power Sword begins to fade from the Sorceress' sight/control.
And before she can even think about what she has seen, her spell is disrupted!!
No way that such a great spell would go unnoticed by a master of dark arts like . . . Skeletor!!
He doesn't know what that sword is . . . but he wants it!
The now nearly-exhausted Sorceress tries to ward off Skeletor's meddling with her spell.
Luckily, Skeletor isn't able to completely overtake such great power as the Sorceress' magic combined with that of Castle Grayskull and of the champion, He-Man!
Not satisfied, in one desperate move, Skeletor summons up all he can, nearly beyond his own limits, with the intention of destroying the sword!
The sword is not destroyed. But! . . . it is . . . split! Into two halves!!
So Skeletor gets one half of the Power Sword, and he knows there is another half, and he knows the Sorceress has it.
Cue . . . Skeletor's first of many unsuccessful attempts on Castle Grayskull.
Skeletor's first encounter with He-Man also gives Skeletor a new purpose.
He immediately recognizes He-Man's sword as the counterpart to his own.
And that way, it makes sense for Skeletor to constantly want to pull stuff, putting citizens in harm's way, since he knows it will always lure He-Man.
And every time he has the chance to go to battle with He-Man, he has the chance to get the other half of the sword!
Now, more to why Adam is chosen. Why not Miro? Why not Randor?
Heck, why not Keldor, before he is corrupted?
Well there I would argue that the stakes simply weren't high enough, things weren't bad enough for Eternia to need its champion.
We know Randor was able to handle Keldor well enough on his own.
It's only when the wall is destroyed and the appearance of SKELETOR that He-Man is needed again.
More about King Grayskull in this take.
Things were pretty bad back then! I mean, he had to take on the Horde and the Snake Men both, and I say, he DEFEATS them. I would NOT kill him off.
Make him the first He-Man who starts to really uncover what's so special about Castle Grayskull. He would be just "He-Ro" (Adam is the first to be designated "He-MAN" because in fact he is combined with a human!) until he is victorious against the most vicious threats Eternia has ever faced. He sees the benefits of "sticking around" and becoming "King" so he can help maintain the peace, after which follows the most peaceful and prosperous era Eternians have ever enjoyed.
And yes, Castle Grayskull, even in KG's time, would be ancient, decrepit ruins with a GRAY SKULL. This wouldn't be the style of the time you know, it would be quite unique, and that's why it would be named Grayskull because of how remarkable it was to see a structure like that.
Castle Grayskull would be the scene of KG's greatest victory (and the moment he is able to channel its power for the first time), so he takes on that name as a tribute to the mysterious power which helped secure his victory, and also as a reminder to all Eternians of the great battle by which they were freed of terror by their now King. Since all evil has been eradicated, there is no need to keep Grayskull a secret during KG's reign.
-----
OK, that's all I got for now, LOL.
HEY...Toy Guru said my imagination is canon. Now, don't you come along and try and change it up...lol. Hey, I've been around as a He-Man fan as long as anyone, so I know that He-Ro was the intended main character for the POG series. I think I was playing devil's advocate and trying to make sense of it all with the new tidbits that have been added by the 200X series. If anything, from the way things have been set in place, thus far, I think it's easier to explain things like He-Ro/King Grayskull's existence and the inclusion of NA charcaters than it will be to introduce She-Ra and her Sword of Protection, but it's gonna be a fun ride when we do get there.Trust us, KG was created specifically for the MYP cartoon. it's just a well known fact.
We don't think that. He is He-Ro.
There is no dubt about it, it's just another well known fact
The planned 1987 POG series revolved around He-Ro and that minicomic series was created to introduce that character and the new world.
On the other hand, He-Ro's original name was Grayskull (there are multiple documents in our possession that prove that).
So, yes, there was already a character that filled the same role in the classic continuity.
But the new series writer ignored or simplyu didn't know about his existance and came out with KG.
I would have much more preferred to finally see He-Ro and get the story we have been wating for since 1987. I also think he could have been a far more interesting character and not a carbon copy of He-Man.
We actually completed the story and wrote it in our bible for the MVC comic, but never got to use it, neither Mattel seemed interested in using it so far.
Last edited by grenadaspice; January 13, 2009 at 03:23pm.
I knew I left something out from my too long paragraph. And of course it would be something I never read until in the 21st century.
That's a simple matter of expanding the horizon to the actual universe. Horde Empire consists of several planets. And according to those same comics, King Hiss also ruled a kingdom of several planets. The highest authority on that matter, hisss majesssty himssself does not say Hordak having any part in their final defeat on Eternia in the past. But it doesn't take much imagination to realize those two empires clashed at some point, stopping both from expanding further. And their war weakened both so that they could be defeated. The Central Tower might well be meant as a Horde base originally. Powered by the myriad magical energies of the planet.
Come to think of it further...there's the RANK of Horde Prime as their supreme ruler (I'm certain it can't be the actual NAME of anyone, even in Motu). Hordak could as well be a rank of a battlefield commander, or the leader of a local Horde ruled planet. Takes away need for more time travel than necessary. We've seen Hordak who relies on science, and even HATES magic. Perhaps because the one Hordak who did tamper with magic (the one with Skeletor and taking part in building the towers) was the one being disbanded from the realm in which Eternia is forever. That's why they're subject to Horde Prime AND still wear the face of a Hordak as they symbol...that's simply how their race looks like.
"She-Ra, Princess of Power was no more. That had been the price of freedom."
I hear what you're saying, but based off the mini-comic, "King of the Snake Men", I have to disagree. When Hordak tries to summon his Snake Men, with the help of Skeletor, he brings forth Rattlor and Tung Lashor, who we've seen work for the Evil Horde at one point and with Skeletor in the Filmation cartoons. Anyways, Kobra Khan says to Hiss that his magic isn't working properly because these are the Snake Men from the Evil Horde on Etheria. Hiss then says to Rattlor and Tung, and I quote, "the Evil Horde still exists? You dare to serve Hordak?". But, then Rattlor and Tung tell Hiss that when he and the other Snake Men disappeared, they had no where else to go, but that they live to serve King Hiss. So, nothing has really been altered as far as the relationship between King Hiss and Hordak is concerned.
Last edited by grenadaspice; January 13, 2009 at 03:26pm.
That one Filmation cartoon is not MotU. It has no meaning to me whatsoever canon-wise. Not only did I not see it when it would've mattered, but THAT abomination is NOT Tung Lashor! *shudder*
Another major point in general: I also refuse to believe Tung Lashor and Rattlor being thousands of years old. Therefore that part I can't logically incorporate to the structure. Therefore, for the reappearance of King Hiss, Rattlor and Tung Lashor, I much rather rely on the UK comic where they never were subject to Hordak. AND with this I can even go as far as to accept Rattlor on his masters ally's, Skeletor's vessel in the Christmas Special.
"She-Ra, Princess of Power was no more. That had been the price of freedom."
It's clear the canons are not to be merged - each is their own and all are full of holes.
I'm filing all the other canons away in my mind (yes even my beloved 200x stuff) so I can start over and not have headache. I thought I'd start a timeline for myself of MOTUC, with item #1 being the oldest known event in the canon. I so cannot wait for this to flesh out a bit more
Last edited by PaTrIcKfOgArTy; January 14, 2009 at 11:45am.
So, do you believe that King Hiss is a thousand years old, but not the other 2 Snake Men. I mean, you take out any acknowledgment of Hordak, who too is a being from that same time frame, and you still get that King Hiss and his Snake Men existed from thousands of years ago, based on either the mini-comics or the MYP series.
You know how some people hate King Grayskull? I feel that way toward Horde Prime.
If there is anyTHING or anyONE that needs to NEVER make it onto a MOTUC bio it's Horde Prime or the idea of Horde Prime. Hordak leads the Horde, not Horde Prime.
The idea of a guy who's Skeletor's teacher taking orders like some underpaid office manager just hurts any menace that Hordak presents. It's like Hordak is replaceable with another dude from HordeWorld.
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King Hiss and most of his warriors being sealed away in the timeless limbo dimension I can buy. Rattlor and Tung Lashor living and waging war in Etheria for thousands of years I can't. Even if this particular Hordak has means of preserving life, thus linking one of they key elements from the 200x series. And the Hordak most of us know from most sources is obviously a cyborg, with his mechanic cannon arm and whatnot. I absolutely don't see why he should choose to prolong the lifes of those two snakes. Especially if you'd take into consideration how incompetent they're in shown in his service (the one cartoon I will not incorporate again). I also can't see how there would be much anything left of Etheria after thousands of years of Evil Horde influence.
I could have a Fantom like theory for Hordak's continuing existence based on my assumption it's actually a rank instead of a name. But it would still require being captured in the limbo for my favourite villains.
"She-Ra, Princess of Power was no more. That had been the price of freedom."
That's the story I'm going with. It also ties into the filmation concept that his vest is made of corradite and multiplies his strength.
Personally I like this idea better than the "most powerful man in the universe" mountain tossing concept. It lets the bad guys have a shot. Honestly what chance does Beastman EVER have. He's a vicious brute and may be the strongest of the evil warriors.... but c'mon its He-man! Beatman and for that matter all the bad guys at ONCE aren't a real threat.
but if you can catch him without the vest.... Now they have a chance! its possibly the reason why I could never keep a vest intact. Too much taking it off and putting it back on.
Ohh and sticking his sword back there. It .... Really wasn't designed for that.
My memories are a little faint on these, for example I COMPLETLY forgot that Hordak was supposed to be that Ancient. I don't like that.
As for King Hiss, didn't he and the snake men get pulled through a magic portal to another dimension/time? If King Hiss didn't actually LIVE through those years... I have no problem with him being around back then.
Hordak is another problem. If he has a massive empire that controls planets, then he couldn't have been in limbo till recently. He had to be out and about, so I don't like him being Pre-eternian. Unless something is brought up where 30 years ago he jumped forward in time and started his conquest again... Idon't know.
Well said, and I agree with you. Horde Prime gets a big thumbs down from me, and Hordak is too cool/menacing to be an underling.
Yeah, I've always hated the idea of Horde Prime. I don't ever remember him mentioned in the mini-comics, nor was he mentioned in the MYP cartoon, which I loved. It put him back right in that spot of being a main intergalatic menace that lead an army and didn't answer to no one. Heck, even Keldor/Skeletor had to answer to Hordak in all the versions of MOTU canon at some time.But then, they went and messed it up by introducing Horde Prime as Hordak's brother in his bio on the Volume 2 MYP box set. Can Horde Prime technically be made as a MOTUC toy or is he off limits?
And, I was wondering, He-Ro is as ancient a being as Hiss, Hordak, and KG. I always figured He-Ro was a deceased character in "present-day" Eternia, hence He-Man time traveling back to Preternia and starting the POG theme in the 80s. But with this canon, he was fighting along side KG against Hordak and Hiss. We know KG is deceased because he got murdered by Hordak in battle, and you can't have a He-Man and She-Ra without KG's death. But, He-Ro is a powerful, magical being, and it hasn't been mentioned yet if he is still alive or not. Do you all think that He-Ro is among the living in this MOTUC canon? You know, I never cared for figures that are of the past because they have no significance in creating present day Eternian battles. If you have your He-Man figure fighting side-by-side with your KG figure, you might as well do the same when you get your Prince Adam figure...lol. But if He-Ro is still alive, you can create battles with He-Ro, He-Man, and Zodac taking on the Snake Men and the Horde, and it makes sense (awesome).
By the way, if Hordak can kill KG, can't he technically kill He-Man as well??? Some "most powerful man in the universe"...lol.
Last edited by grenadaspice; January 13, 2009 at 06:12pm.
Horde Prime was a bad idea and I hope we've seen the last of him. I agree that Hordak shouldn't have to answer to anyone.
As far as Hordak being a Preternian goes, I always thought he time travelled back to that era and helped construct the 3 Towers, as well as casting the Spell of Seperation. Since Keldor was apparently around at that time to take Evil-Lyn into his custody, it's possible that he was already Hordak's student at that point.
Hordak being trapped in Despondas by King Grayskull is a storyline i'm really not keen on. I preffered the idea of him being around on modern day Eternia to abduct Adora.
I'd rather have He-Man constantly proving that he's the most powerful man in the universe, than fighting guys with zero chance of beating him.
In Filmation, He-Man was the most powerful man in the universe from jump. Skeletor lost to He-Man so much, by the second season, he wasn't even serious anymore.
But in MYP, he actually had to prove it. Although He-Man triumphed in the end, he actually was defeated a few times, indicating that some enemies were actually threats. In Filmation, He-Man would have deflected some beams, grabbed villain of choice while saying a one-liner and either rolled them up in the floor or giant swung them over the horizon. The End.
That's why I believe that KG showed us how powerful MYP He-Man could potentially become. That's why he was so big and massive. Even his cat was enormous. King Hiss said straight up that He-Man was "no King Grayskull", putting it out there that He-Man wasn't as powerful yet.
No doubt He-Man would have eventually beaten King Hiss and Hordak, but it's great to see that even He-Man has to work for his title.
Imagine what enemies the most powerful man in the universe must have?
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Since when having more brute force than anyone = immortal? Or raw power = indestructible?
In various canons and various different sources, we've seen He-Man defeated with stun rays, energy chains, nega-water, Magna Snakes, various gases. We also see He-Man constantly blocking away various rays and slashing/piercing weapons, because those obviously CAN hurt him. Stinkor, Two-Bad, Sssqueeze, Tung Lashor, heck, even Count Marzo have managed to take He-Man out. Diamond ray of disappearance could make him vanish. Snake Face could turn him to stone, if he's not touching the Sword of Power. Et cetera. He-Man made invincible is just bad writing or at least lack of imagination.
"She-Ra, Princess of Power was no more. That had been the price of freedom."
I've always had a problem with "super" He-Man. If He-Man could always defeat the powers of evill all by himself... why have any other heroes other than to pillage consumers of their cash?
I've always prefered to think if He-Man as the "strong guy", MAA as the "smart guy", Teela as the "graceful & fearless", Stratos as the "flying guy" etc.
Well said.
A hero is only as powerful as the enemy he vanquishes.
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. -George Bernard Shaw
Well, I made an "Elseworlds" attempt above.If anything, from the way things have been set in place, thus far, I think it's easier to explain things like He-Ro/King Grayskull's existence and the inclusion of NA charcaters than it will be to introduce She-Ra and her Sword of Protection, but it's gonna be a fun ride when we do get there.
But yeah, I agree that MYP should've at least put in a hint about She-Ra.
I also agree.Well said.
A hero is only as powerful as the enemy he vanquishes.
That's one reason why I liked that aspect of the 4H's take in 200x, where almost every villain was bigger than He-Man.
I can't wait to see how POP and NA are worked into this canon.
For example:
Will the POP Characters be from Etheria or Despondos? Perhaps Etheria was accidently banished into Despondos?
How did Hordak kidnap Adora?
Is the Fright Zone in Despondos or on Eternia?
Will the NA characters still be from the future or reworked into the present?
Good questions.
I'm sure many are eager to see how the PoP storyline is handled.
I would guess though that they leave NA He-Man like it is, no reason not to, He-Man is summoned into the future to protect Primus, and Skeletor tags along.
If they're blending things, I would guess that the Horde is still in Despondos.
I'm not familiar with the She-Ra minicomics, but I would guess Etheria is still usable?
Maybe the Horde ends up on Etheria so things can remain more or less like the Filmation toon there? I don't know? That the Horde went from coming out of Despondos, threatened Eternia, then moved on or was banished again to Etheria, but they took over Etheria? I honestly have no idea what they'll do there.
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. -George Bernard Shaw
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