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Thread: Answers to WTFWTK 2.9!

  1. #26
    Eternian Jedi Knight He-Fan's Avatar
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    Chris here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Reilly View Post
    I guess telling us straight to "shut up and let the pros do their work" would've been to harsh.
    Quote Originally Posted by zodak74 View Post
    Something about this just sounds... I dunno... just "off" somehow...
    Amen - maybe I'm reading it wrongly, but to me this sounds like Mattel are telling us "either these folks can apply to work for Mattel full-time or they can **** off" - which, with all due respect, is not a very clever answer!

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  2. #27
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
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    On the whole "we don't need input" thing . . .

    Fortunately Matty, Toy Guru and the Four Horsemen are all huge life long MOTU fans so rest assured we do have plenty of MOTU experts on staff right now!
    Obviously, the Four Horsemen have beyond proven themselves in the eyes of fans.

    Toy Guru AKA Scott Neitlich (although I appreciate his time) however, is kind of questionable. This is the same Toy Guru who has said things like driving around hunting for DCUC figures is half the fun of collecting, and wouldn't Faker be an awesome chase figure, and now, how cool to brag to our friends for getting Faker a month earlier.

    This isn't exactly someone who I feel represents the majority view of collectors.

    And I can't recall, who is "Matty" again?

  3. #28
    Eternian Arashikage King Kahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post
    On the whole "we don't need input" thing . . .



    Obviously, the Four Horsemen have beyond proven themselves in the eyes of fans.

    Toy Guru AKA Scott Neitlich (although I appreciate his time) however, is kind of questionable. This is the same Toy Guru who has said things like driving around hunting for DCUC figures is half the fun of collecting, and wouldn't Faker be an awesome chase figure, and now, how cool to brag to our friends for getting Faker a month earlier.

    This isn't exactly someone who I feel represents the majority view of collectors.

    And I can't recall, who is "Matty" again?
    hmmm was not aware of those remarks.

    haha yeah i for one DONT like driving around. i like driving to anyplace i feel and being able to find the toys. for me, the FUN of collecting is HAVING them in your possesion. finding them will always be a thrill but it is always offset by the aggravation of going to a store to find only smash blade he-men or having to "hunt" them on ebay and paying twice the retail price
    I want NA Skeletor and Rio Blast and I want them now!

  4. #29
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    Oh ya, Hell I am STILL WAITING FOR MY FIGS I ORDERED on the 3rd... today is now the 16th' (it has been almost 2 weeks)

    if these guys don't come through with them by the end of the month i am filing a CC dispute.

    then I am done.

    p.S no e-mail updates and they still say "shipped"

    but shipped to 'where"? I still don't got them.

  5. #30
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Kahn View Post
    hmmm was not aware of those remarks.

    haha yeah i for one DONT like driving around. i like driving to anyplace i feel and being able to find the toys. for me, the FUN of collecting is HAVING them in your possesion. finding them will always be a thrill but it is always offset by the aggravation of going to a store to find only smash blade he-men or having to "hunt" them on ebay and paying twice the retail price
    OK, to be fair, here is the real quote.

    But hey, not trying to put too much spin, but as a toy fan myself isn't their a certain thrill to finding that new product on shelf and having a reason to get up in the morning a hunt the aisles?
    Not as severe as I painted earlier, but I still have to *strongly* disagree with the mentality of getting up in the morning to hunt for toys.

    He made a similar comment on one of the DVD docs about how before he worked for Mattel he did that with the 2002 line as a collector trying to hunt down the variants.

    Well, I'm glad you had fun with that and all, but the rest of us hated it.

  6. #31
    Heroic Warrior Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post
    OK, to be fair, here is the real quote.



    Not as severe as I painted earlier, but I still have to *strongly* disagree with the mentality of getting up in the morning to hunt for toys.

    He made a similar comment on one of the DVD docs about how before he worked for Mattel he did that with the 2002 line as a collector trying to hunt down the variants.

    Well, I'm glad you had fun with that and all, but the rest of us hated it.
    "The rest of us" is inaccurate. Some people hated it, but some other people didn't hate it. And now, some people hate "the hunt", but some people live for it.

    I'm with you; I get joy in having the figures rather than searching for them (though 200X wasn't bad for me until the end). But I know for a fact there are plenty of people who love hunting them down. Apparently Toy Guru is one of those people.

  7. #32
    He-Man.org Administrator TheShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post
    Obviously, the Four Horsemen have beyond proven themselves in the eyes of fans.
    I disagree. They've done things I've liked and things I've completely hated. As for the Scott dude, he got hired and is going to do the job that the company hired him to do.

    The bottom line: Mattel owns Masters of the Universe. Mattel gets to make the decisions. Fans do not. He-Man.org is a fan site. I don't care if you want to label yourself or people as a "major MOTU experts" -- that is a subjective phrase. You think you know, but you have no idea type of a deal. Fans think they have the best ideas, but they don't always (same with Mattel). However, Mattel owns the property and they get to make the decisions. That is how the world works. If you want to work on the MOTUC line or future MOTU related products, I suggest you look for job openings at Mattel and apply for them.

    Live and let live my friends. Enjoy the property for what it is. Back in the 80s all you could do was send a letter to Mattel with a suggestion. Here people just seem to never be happy and just ***** all day long and half the time it is not constructive at all. I've seen this pattern going on a steady trend now any time we get a glimmer of something new. It gets tiring really. We will always have the original to glance back at and smile. Try not to get so extremely stressed out over things.

    I you really need to complain -- actually take time, compose an actual letter that is constructive, and physically mail it (as in snail mail with a stamp) to Mattel's headquarters.

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  8. #33
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    "The rest of us" is inaccurate. Some people hated it, but some other people didn't hate it. And now, some people hate "the hunt", but some people live for it.

    I'm with you; I get joy in having the figures rather than searching for them (though 200X wasn't bad for me until the end). But I know for a fact there are plenty of people who love hunting them down. Apparently Toy Guru is one of those people.
    LOL! That would explain alot with DC Universe Classics.

    The Blonde Teela (Battleground and Alcala Teela) Thread
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  9. #34
    Heroic Warrior Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    LOL! That would explain alot with DC Universe Classics.


    Ain't that the truth.

  10. #35
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
    I disagree. They've done things I've liked and things I've completely hated. As for the Scott dude, he got hired and is going to do the job that the company hired him to do.
    When I say "proven themselves in the eyes of fans," I mean two things really.

    1) We know we can trust what they say, that they give it to the fans straight, and they won't spin anything for damage control or face-saving purposes
    2) Their track record has PROVEN, many times over, that they listen to fan feedback and directly apply it to creative decisions

    And while you may not love everything 4H have created, that is subjective, as opposed to the objective points above.


    And though I know you were speaking in generalities, because you have my quote in your post, I will respond.

    I am not "stressing out" about anything in any way whatsoever.
    These are toys at the end of the day, and if they were cancelled tomorrow as a fan I would be upset, but these are a luxury, and by no means do they dictate my life or livelihood.

    And as tiring as it may be for you to read gripey criticisms, it's as tiring for me to explain how no matter how nitpicky and critical some of us get, the majority of us is obsessing just for fun, and because that's what fanboys do.

    However, the fact remains that it's MATTEL, and not US, who has said things like "This line is strictly for the fans, the line the fans have always wanted" and other things like "The shipping has been perfected".

    If they said "We're gonna do the line the way we do the line, and join us if you want" and "We're working on the spotty shipping, sorry" then you would maybe have a point.

    I just get the feeling that, if they don't want fan input from the .org, then where the heck DO they want to get it from?

  11. #36
    He-Man.org Administrator TheShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post
    And though I know you were speaking in generalities, because you have my quote in your post, I will respond.
    Ok good, because I wasn't singling you out be assured.

    I just get the feeling that, if they don't want fan input from the .org, then where the heck DO they want to get it from?
    They are doing a lot of things that other companies in many industries do not do. They are communicating to fans, letting them ask questions, etc. You can't expect the company to be at our beck and call though. And, remember, it isn't just loud people on the He-Man.org forums who are buying these things. The purpose of this line in my eyes is to keep the MOTU name out there among your comic book/toy type crowd until the next mainstream vehicle for MOTU presents itself.

    As for what Mattel has said vs what actually happened? Write that snail mail letter I say. It will have so much more of an impact than random posts on a fan site.

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  12. #37
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
    They are doing a lot of things that other companies in many industries do not do. They are communicating to fans, letting them ask questions, etc.
    Maybe in other industries, but in the "adult action figure collector" industry, it's not only common practice, but it's kind of necessary for survival, exactly because the employees of these companies simply cannot see everything that the fanboys can spot.

    The purpose of this line in my eyes is to keep the MOTU name out there among your comic book/toy type crowd until the next mainstream vehicle for MOTU presents itself.
    That is reasonable speculation that I'm inclined to agree with, but since that's not exactly how Mattel is presenting the line, they are helping to create some general unrest that could easily be avoided by a little more forthcomingness.

    As someone said, we're grown men . . . I think we can handle the truth.

    As for writing a letter, why should I write a letter when Toy Guru (paraphrasing) "spends many hours a week on websites like He-Man.org for fan feedback"?

    Besides, I wouldn't want to get anyone at Mattel fired.

  13. #38
    He-Man.org Administrator TheShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post
    Maybe in other industries, but in the "adult action figure collector" industry, it's not only common practice, but it's kind of necessary for survival, exactly because the employees of these companies simply cannot see everything that the fanboys can spot.
    And in the adult collector industry, I am sure they know that "fanboys" will still buy the product and multiples of the product because they can't help themselves, even if they are not entirely happy with the product (ie. *****ing and moaning all the time).

    As for writing a letter, why should I write a letter when Toy Guru (paraphrasing) "spends many hours a week on websites like He-Man.org for fan feedback"?

    Besides, I wouldn't want to get anyone at Mattel fired.
    Because writing an actual letter holds more value. It takes two seconds to spat off on a message board in the heat of the moment. A letter takes more time and thought. You don't know how many others would see the letter as well.

    It wouldn't get anyone fired.

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  14. #39
    Heroic Master of Sleep Lay Ze-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
    And in the adult collector industry, I am sure they know that "fanboys" will still buy the product and multiples of the product because they can't help themselves, even if they are not entirely happy with the product (ie. *****ing and moaning all the time).
    That's true for some fanboys, absolutely.
    But not this one, and not the majority, I would guess.

    Tons of collectors completely abandoned 200x when they couldn't find any secondary characters, and still others never even got on board because of it. And clearly not enough fanboys were interested in buying the variants, Deluxe figures, repaints, and vehicles that were crammed down our throats.

    If you don't think 200x collapsed and eventually tanked due in large part to Mattel's refusal to listen to fan feedback, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

    Also reference the short-lived GI Joe DTC line which tried to push cheap frankensteined figures on collectors.

    It wouldn't get anyone fired.
    I was just kidding around.

  15. #40
    He-Man.org Administrator TheShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lay Ze-Man View Post
    That's true for some fanboys, absolutely.
    But not this one, and not the majority, I would guess.
    I hear ya. I am in your camp -- If I am not happy, I don't buy the product. But, alas, we are totally in the minority.

    As for the 200X, I agree that Mattel made some mistakes, but I feel that He-Man more-so just did not pick up with kids as much as it needed to in order to survive as a property.

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  16. #41
    Grew up on a horse Baena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
    The bottom line: Mattel owns Masters of the Universe. Mattel gets to make the decisions. Fans do not. He-Man.org is a fan site. I don't care if you want to label yourself or people as a "major MOTU experts" -- that is a subjective phrase. You think you know, but you have no idea type of a deal. Fans think they have the best ideas, but they don't always (same with Mattel). However, Mattel owns the property and they get to make the decisions. That is how the world works. If you want to work on the MOTUC line or future MOTU related products, I suggest you look for job openings at Mattel and apply for them.
    Shads, you da man... I 100% agree with your "Bottom line". *thumbs up*
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  17. #42
    Bashasaurus Emiliano's Avatar
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    Just to clarify one thing, because I feel there is some confusion here.
    When someone pitches themselves as a consultant for Mattel, it's not about making the decisions.
    This would sounds like a person is out to get Toyguru's job and that's not the case.

    Consultants are just there to give input and help. That's it.
    It doesn't matter who the consultant is. Whoever the consultants are, it's all about bringing on people with a wide array of knowledge who can help answer questions, suggest ideas, and give direction to help make a line the best it can be, especially a line that's supposed to cater to the even the most hard core MOTU fan.
    What is done with that input is obviously up to Mattel.

    I don't label myself as a major MOTU expert. Other people say that. But I know what kind of knoweldge we have as individuals and as a team. And as a professional, I've seen my work appreciated by both fans and other professionals. Including Mattel and the 4H.
    So we do know we could help the line.
    All any consultant would love to do is to be able to give small and humble contributions that may lead to beneficial improvements.

  18. #43
    He-Man.org Administrator TheShadow's Avatar
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    And, as always, being a consultant is a privilege not a right.

    The company is going to do what they feel is best for them at the time.

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  19. #44
    Heroic Warrior Darkwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baena View Post
    Shads, you da man... I 100% agree with your "Bottom line". *thumbs up*
    Yeah! The next time I'm unhappy with the product or service at McDonalds, I'm going to quit this lucrative advertising gig and apply there!

  20. #45
    Bashasaurus Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
    And, as always, being a consultant is a privilege not a right.
    Absolutely!

  21. #46
    Grew up on a horse Baena's Avatar
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    But what fan should Mattel listen to?

    Me? Mr. Pre-Filmation guy?
    Alessandra? Filmation She-Ra Goddess extraordinaire?
    Wacky Martian the champion of NA He-Man?

    They're not going to please everybody.
    We've all been over this already with the Movie rumor stuff too.

    Here, you're charged with making the ultimate MotU toyline, with no backing from a toon or a movie or comic or game or anything... And. We'd love for it to be as big as it was in the 80's. What do you do?

    I'll tell you what you do, you do your thing, and just know you're going to tick off a good chunk of the fans no matter what you do. Because you can't do it all.

    What are we getting with this line?
    So far it looks like the 8-back. Yay for the pre-filmation guys like me.
    We've been told that we're getting these guys first basically, and that as these sell well, the line expands into PoP, NA, everything!
    This plane is just still on the runway powering up and we're all yellin' at the pilot where to go next! We don't know if he'll go where we're telling him yet because the plane isn't even in the air yet!
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  22. #47
    Filmation She-Ra Forever! AlessandraF's Avatar
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    John,
    I agree on almost everything you said, especially when we talk about who owns the brand and that they make the final decisions. They could have chosen to never do He-Man toys again but they di dand they tried to communicate with us - the fans - through this community.


    On the other hand, I don't agree about the "fan thinking". Let's make an example with the He-Man and She-Ra DVD sets by BCI. A lot of what's there has been thought, suggested and created by fans who also happen to be professionals. They knew what fans wanted to see and they acted as consultant for the company, helping to make a successful product. I know the US boxsets are now considered one of the standards for this kind of boxset cartoon release, even internationally. Germany even reprinted its DVD with BCI graphic and boxart.
    So does being MOTU and POP fans make those talented professionals who worked on the DVDs less professional? It's their fan thinking as professionals that helped make those DVDs what they are.


    I made the question in the WTFWTK 9 because I believe that Mattel could take advantage of consulting with the very people who have a great knowledge of what the fans want (because they do! So do you, Jon! You probably knows more about MOTU and POP than a lot of people at Mattel!)


    Hasbro has been known to do this, even to the point where they have endorsed fan companies and their custom products (look at City Commander and Powerglide made by companies started by passionate TF fans).
    I wish Mattel would look to that as an example.


    It's just my opinion of course, but I just hope the series in not another failure. And if this line is truly a line for fans and collectors, it would seem Mattel would do everything they can to tap the resources of the very fan base they want to sell to.
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  23. #48
    He-Man.org Administrator TheShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baena View Post
    But what fan should Mattel listen to?

    Me? Mr. Pre-Filmation guy?
    Alessandra? Filmation She-Ra Goddess extraordinaire?
    Wacky Martian the champion of NA He-Man?
    Quote Originally Posted by AlessandraF View Post
    I made the question in the WTFWTK 9 because I believe that Mattel could take advantage of consulting with the very people who have a great knowledge of what the fans want (because they do! So do you, Jon! You probably knows more about MOTU and POP than a lot of people at Mattel!)
    I'm sure I do know more than others, however, I also have my preferences. Most fans do with He-Man and She-Ra since there are so many off shots of continuity. I agree with Nate above. There are too many pieces to the puzzle basically. I think that is why they are doing an overview of the forums, looking around, reading some threads. That gives them a more general sense.

    Individual fans or groups of fans can tend to have their own agenda of what exactly they think the ultimate end result of everything MOTU needs to be. While that may fulfill a fan's fantasy, if you will, it may not fulfill a mass audience or the widest audience it could reach at full potential given certain circumstances. Remember, even this collector line is reaching more than just hardcore MOTU fans.

    As for the box art, as far as I know, the fans who worked on those were hired to do so. And, putting Filmation art on Filmation DVD boxes is not the same as running an action figure line. I'm not trying to single people out here (I didn't bring up DVD boxes!).

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  24. #49
    Bashasaurus Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
    As for the box art, as far as I know, the fans who worked on those were hired to do so. And, putting Filmation art on Filmation DVD boxes is not the same as running an action figure line. I'm not trying to single people out here (I didn't bring up DVD boxes!).
    But that's the point: we're not talking about running the line.
    That's Toyguru's job
    But, why not hiring us for the packaging for example?
    Do you think we would have done a job that would have appealed only to a minority of fans?
    And a professional also knows how to divide his preferences from what he thinks is other fans want and keep things balanced

  25. #50
    He-Man.org Administrator TheShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    But that's the point: we're not talking about running the line.
    That's Toyguru's job
    But, why not hiring us for the packaging for example?
    Do you think we would have done a job that would have appealed only to a minority of fans?
    And a professional also knows how to divide his preferences from what he thinks is other fans want and keep things balanced
    I would suggest applying for jobs at Mattel if you wish to work on their products. I swear to you, my friend, I am not trying to be mean. I am just being realistic here. Remember, just because someone has worked on MOTU in the past does not mean they are entitled to work on it in the future. Business is business. Would you have done a good job? Most likely, you are a good artist. However, perhaps it was just not in the cards at this time.

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