BUT if we were to accept your idea as a hypothetical we are still faced with this: there is a difference between making your money back, making profit and making big bucks profit.
Now I'm not sure which one CG would fall underneath for Mattel because...well frankly none of us have the books for Mattel's finances. But hypothetical....in a typical business model the only way a company could go on to produce such another giant product would be with the financial momentum after making "big bucks profit."
Personally....I wish this is the case because I would love a Snake MT
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Now obviously things have changed because back then the line was untested and the market response was unknown. However the same basic principal exists as you pointed out- present sales and profit predict future product
Comparing retail to sub doesn't really work. If Mattel ever brings MOTU to retail, for a movie release or whatever, you can expect exactly this approach, loads of goofy colored missile firing he-men. It's not just Hasbro, this is what pretty much every toy company with a big retail presence does, flood the market with the big names to draw in the kids and parents. One need only look at the Mattel DC retail lines for an idea of what you'd get. Despite the cruddy distribution, I still don't think anything of Mattels retail boys lines compares to anything Hasbro is putting out. Even Hasbros 5 poa figures look better than most of Mattels similar products. Aside from the 4H, Mattels sculpters just don't seem comparable to me.
UNLESS you want to consider the Marvel Universe 3.75 as a 'reboot' of the secret Wars toys... That's kind of how they started... Still, I have had a LOT more quality control issues with THOSE then I do with MOTUC...
Soooo yeah, I'm happy with how Mattel runs it (mostly... I STILL hate the sub only philosophy...) but saying Hasbro would do it better... I see no evidence of that.
While I don't think Hasbro would be able to do better, I do believe you'd be able to walk into a store and probably find multiple lines, both collector and kid focused, or the remnants of them anyway, and you'd probably have a new tv series as well to accompany a line for whatever that show is. And would goofy colored missile firing He-Man really be so bad if it were bringing some fresh blood into the Masters of the Universe? Sure distribution is spotty, but how is ordering a set of & figures off of BBTS much different than subbing up and receiving a figure every month? Now personally, I have no desire to see Hasbro take over the He-Man license, nor would it ever happen, but there's no denying that Mattel could do more with it than they are. A niche line like this is not the best option when it comes to long term exposure of a brand. How much more might we get and for less, if there was some cheapy kiddie line on the side helping to pay for the bigger stuff? Say what you will about the transformers movies and toys, but it's because of those that we get great figures like Deluxe Waspinator and Voyager Rhinox and countless others from the Classics Generations series. If the Joe movies and lines had done better, I've no doubt we'd see a ton more of the classic stuff from that line as well. If we're lucky enough that this line is still going whenever the Masters film finally happens, I have no doubt you might start hearing that a Snake Mountain is possible after all.
And they didn't do a GREAT job of bringing in the new blood...
I don't doubt they would have TRIED a new series or something... but Hasbro doesn't seem to stick with them much. GI Joe keeps trying, but they abandon each direction pretty fast.
We'd see something like this if you did tha:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
MICHAEL BAY PRESENTS: A MICHAEL BAY production. In a world where an evil corporation has taken over New York, there is only one hope: THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE: THE RISE OF HE-MAN, starring CHANNING TATUM as Adam, a down on his luck New York bartender who finds the magical wise-cracking POWER SWORD (voiced by Kevin Hart) after a meteor crashes into his back yard. Granting him mysterious techno powers through a nano-grafted POWER-SUIT (tm), Adam becomes He-Man, heroic vigilante. With help from the mysterious love interest TEELA played by RIHANNA, Adam must defeat the evil GRAYSKULL CORPORATION and it's alien CEO SKELETOR (MARK WAHLBERG) . Coming this Fall to a theatre near you.
Last edited by SonOfHeMan; June 12, 2014 at 09:48pm.
200x did bring in new blood. Do you think everyone single member of this board are only vintage and filmation fans? I'm willing to bet there's a good amount of members here that for them 200x was their first encounter with He-Man and made them fans. And while I can't argue that ridiculous variants helped do in the 200x line, it was more the ridiculous amount they were packing per case in comparison to new characters as opposed to their existence in general. Don't forget, back in the vintage days, things like Thunderpunch He-Man and Dragon Blaster Skeletor were some of those "goofy variants". The trick is to balance it out and not pack them 3 per case every case and toss in a Teela as an afterthought. As for that Michael Bay movie, regardless of the quality, if it made a ton of money, you can bet the Classics stuff we could get would be greatly expanded as a result. I don't see how that's not a win win situation, regardless of the quality of the film itself. Trans fans got a giant transformable Metroplex last year, you can bet that wouldn't have happened without the boost in revenue from the films. The same could happen for MOTUC, and items like Snake Mountain.
The same as all the modern retail lines do.
The things that killed the 200x line... are the SAME things that they complain about on the Marvel Universe websites right now.
Honestly, I have a hard time ever encouraging BAD media or 'Expansion for the sake of expansion'
Eventually something becomes unrecognizable and its simply not the same property anymore.
I consider Bayformers (despite hating that term...) to be on par with New Adventures. Similar names... similar tropes... completely unrecognizable in appearance or attitude or lore. Just saying YEAH... but they made another show!!! DOESN'T really excite me too much if I don't LIKE the media or the direction.
And the way new media has a way of taking over and pushing out the 'core' entities... and becoming the 'real' version... I don't know. I just can't buy into it.
I collect Marvel universe quite enthusiasticly, and frequent several boards for that particular line, and character variants never really comes up as a complaint, most I've spoken to see it as a necessary evil, retail wants the big names, it's how we get the Deaths Heads and Whirlwinds. The case pack outs however, and including Iron Man version X at 3 per case in wave one, and then again in wave 2, seems to be the thing that causes frustration, and it's what creates the back log. There's a balancing act there, and it's tricky. Include too many C listers per case and you end up with just as much of a clog as if you packed a ton of Iron Men. in my neck of the woods we're drowning in Black Knights and Auroras right now, both great figures, but over saturated unfortunately. If MOTUC was retail, you'd have the chances of even the hard core, highly sought after figures becoming peg warmers. If you had a case of 4 He-Mans and 4 Shadow Weavers and 4 Two Bads for example, and a store got in a couple cases, you'd have them sitting after a while, regardless of how well done the figures are.
As for new media, I'm not trying to convince you that new media is great, but if having that new media existing and being successful could make a Classics Snake Mountain possible, wouldn't it be worth it? A cruddy product we can ignore, so that we can get something we do want? Seems like a good trade off to me. And for every cruddy bayformers, you occasionally get a gem, like Beast Wars or Transformers Animated.
When the new Marvel Infinte line was announced with the bleeding Edge Iron Man and the Captain America we JUST got and Wasp was (I think) one per case... the board I was on just lit UP.... Everyone couldn't fathom the idea of the immediate rereleases and accused Hasbro of trying to kill the lien!!!
And There's always the issue with Marvel 3.75 competing with itself with 3 movie lines, a spiderman line and general line all putting out the same character at the same time... but that's a different complaint
Reminds me of 200x. We had new media... and while we got one variant of He-man with his tradional iron cross harness... we didn't get a classic looking Grayskull... we got the 200x grayskull. Which I didn't bother buying...
It's possible we would get some new things that were inspired by the vintage stuff... but new media tends to overwhelm the old. it gets pushed hard at the customers to the exclusion of most everything else.
Transformers does a LITTLE better. We still see the occasional G1 influenced thing, but most of it is either Movie or 'TF Prime' stuff.
I kinda like the game show host Castle Grayskull... "Skeletor! YOU are not WELCOME here!......A New CAAAR!!!"
Now, I'm not saying their slowness freaking folks out was OK for DR to do, or any thing of the sort - it's DR. But, the folks that actually had them cancelled because of the "wrong card updated" issue was isolated to only those folks who called during the year to change the cards, because DR hadn't trained them that the card number was baked into the original orders, and changing it elsewhere wasn't changing a thing. Totally their fault, again, though - not defending that, just being realistic as to the only folks that would have actually been affected.
Regardless, this is all moot - because (see below) they took cancellations well into the production process and until only a few months before release because of the broken promises that they made. They used the "hey we are offering refunds!" as the mantra excuse when folks pointed out their dissatisfaction at the changes. So if they called or emailed to cancel, or just let their cards lapse, Mattel still would have made the same amount of Castles and would have been stuck with the same number of them largely by their own doing.
He has made himself the face of the brand. Paul, Joe, and Bob aren't trying to style themselves with "celebrity" status and soak up the limelight but pretend the shadow he casts is someone elses fault. His choice to be that "visible" person. There are a myriad of reasons he brings it on himself, mostly because his foot seems to naturally want to slide into his mouth and he often makes minor things turn into big controversies just by opening his mouth more, but that's all been well-documented and isn't worth going blow by blow and repeating here.
Did a search on this thread for 'cancel CC' and got 359 hits. Some for the idea, some against it in the way that Forum conversations go. But they go back LONG before the DR mess up almost as far back as the Castle announcement.
Things like this....
Still it happens every time there is a sub drive that people think this is clever, and then the mods come on to try to nip that kind of talk in the bud.
I believe Scott said that Mattel did check with individuals ordering multiple castles to ensure they were legit. Not sure what they did, but I don't think they just took orders for 5000 castles at face value.
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Personally, I admire him specifically for making himself the face of the brand- Not for "celebrity status" but so Paul, Joe, and Bob can do their jobs without being witched at & demoralized from every corner of the internet. This whole one-on-one online interaction between company and customer has been an interesting new frontier to see played out over the years. Taking the heat and criticism for issues regarding product seems part of that job and he shoulders it pretty well in my opinion. Both for issues that are the company's fault and those that aren't. There may be other examples out there, but this is one of the first times I've seen this kind of business paradigm. It has both it's advantages and flaws to be sure but speaking only for myself, I think it's been a worthy experiment so far.He has made himself the face of the brand. Paul, Joe, and Bob aren't trying to style themselves with "celebrity" status and soak up the limelight but pretend the shadow he casts is someone elses fault. His choice to be that "visible" person. There are a myriad of reasons he brings it on himself, mostly because his foot seems to naturally want to slide into his mouth and he often makes minor things turn into big controversies just by opening his mouth more, but that's all been well-documented and isn't worth going blow by blow and repeating here.
I call this opinion because unless you are gifted with infinite wisdom which allows you to transcend your own opinions and biases to see things from a different perspective than you cannot ground anything which you said in truth. Here is the plain simple fact: You see a media advertisement, you interpret it and you respond. The second part is where everyone gets in trouble because its the interpretation which is subjective and therefore not a valid indicator of reality. And as much as you or anyone else can deny, it's science and I'd be more than happy to PM you any articles or supporting documentation if you care to challenge this because not only have I read them, I actively study them within my profession.
So the internet and all of it's ongoing commentary which you call "documentation" is realistically a huge melting pot of personal interpretations and opinions. Which is FINE, that's what forums are for. They bring people together to discuss topics. But it is no way, shape or form a body of evidence which can be used to glorify to vilify somebody because they are still just opinions.
And until someone is given the magical power of seeing reality for it's objective nature and provide us with facts and not their opinions or interpretations of what is happening and how we should judge TG, then we have to come to the simple conclusion that we don't have any clue about Mattel's inner workings, TG's occupational or personal decisions or anything basically.