MOTUC Castle Grayskull Discussion Thread

[uaxuctum]

From Facebook:

Castle Grayskull update… straight from the Four Horsemen, here are the measurements of the latest sculpt. These were done quick n’ dirty at NYTF so they’re subject to change (we’ll show the final castle at SDCC): 23" to top of pier, 18" wide, 11 ½” deep when closed, the door is 8" tall or 7" tall when the jaw bridge is open.

This is what they originally advertised (and are still advertising on the CG preorder page):

Product Features

- If produced, this will be the largest, most ambitious MOTUC item ever made – the dimensions are expected to be somewhere around 25”h x 26”w x 28”d (subject to change).

And the real deal has gone from 25”h×26”w to 23”h×18”w. That's a very noticeable (−36%) decrease in façade surface (from 650 in² to 414 in²), apart from a radical departure in relative height-to-width proportion (from 1:1.04 slightly wider-than-taller, to 1.28:1 notably taller-than-wider). Certainly quite a change.

[BrettX209]

Yea, I see the exact opposite of great news here. According to their pre-order page, "If produced, this will be the largest, most ambitious MOTUC item ever made – the dimensions are expected to be somewhere around 25”h x 26”w x 28”d (subject to change)."

Yes, I do understand what "subject to change" means, but I also understand the difference between 28" and 11 ½". The height is close, but the width and depth are significantly smaller than what was promised in the preorder. Yet another Matty scam?

From Facebook:
Castle Grayskull update… straight from the Four Horsemen, here are the measurements of the latest sculpt. These were done quick n’ dirty at NYTF so they’re subject to change (we’ll show the final castle at SDCC): 23" to top of pier, 18" wide, 11 ½” deep when closed, the door is 8" tall or 7" tall when the jaw bridge is open.

[JonWes]

Guys, you need to look at the b-sheet. I realize it's confusing because Mattel is measuring different things in those measurements, and they really should have kept what they were measuring consistent. But if you read what they are measuring (in the Facebook post) and compare to the measurements in the b-sheet, you'll see the final dimensions are not as off as they would seem. The most important difference is the depth and width. What they gave on Matty was with it open. This depth is for it closed.

The real difference is this:

B-sheet Proto
H: 25.425'' H: 23''
W: 17.4'' W: 18''
D: 11.5''* D: 11.5''

* This is approximate by looking at the b-sheet. It's never precisely called out on the b-sheet, but it gives you the widths of each individual section and when you take out the widths of the interior you're left with about this much.

[Carlaird]

Guys, you need to look at the b-sheet. I realize it's confusing because Mattel is measuring different things in those measurements, and they really should have kept what they were measuring consistent. But if you read what they are measuring (in the Facebook post) and compare to the measurements in the b-sheet, you'll see the final dimensions are not as off as they would seem. The most important difference is the depth and width. What they gave on Matty was with it open. This depth is for it closed.

The real difference is this:


















B-sheet Proto
H: 25.425'' H: 23''
W: 17.4'' W: 18''
D: approx. 11.5'' D: 11.5''

http://www.mintconditioncustom.com/w...dimensions.jpg

HA
Yeah were were just figuring that on Facebook!!

I just want what we saw at Toyfair
little bigger is always better but THAT toy Fair sneak was BONKERS!!

[RyanSD]

Guys, you need to look at the b-sheet. I realize it's confusing because Mattel is measuring different things in those measurements, and they really should have kept what they were measuring consistent. But if you read what they are measuring (in the Facebook post) and compare to the measurements in the b-sheet, you'll see the final dimensions are not as off as they would seem. The most important difference is the depth and width. What they gave on Matty was with it open. This depth is for it closed.

The real difference is this:

B-sheet Proto
H: 25.425'' H: 23''
W: 17.4'' W: 18''
D: 11.5''* D: 11.5''

* This is approximate by looking at the b-sheet. It's never precisely called out on the b-sheet, but it gives you the widths of each individual section and when you take out the widths of the interior you're left with about this much.

http://www.mintconditioncustom.com/w...dimensions.jpg

Looking at the second diagram, with the skull facing forward, the width(counting the ledge) is 20". If their new measurements are also counting ledge, then we lost 2" in width. What really affects the size though, is the increased 'rock base' size and the subsequent moving of the first floor, door, and drawbridge up higher. So not only did we lose 2.4" in height, more of the height for the figures is lost when there's the elevation factor included. Really, if they fix the door height, either by sculpting it lower in the base or by making the drawbridge hinge lower, I'd happy with the size.

[phantom1592]

Very good point. I wished they'd stop doing stuff like that. Why waste time and resources on these little things that nobody cares about while there are other matters that need far more attention. The keyhole is going to ruin an otherwise perfect sculpt and will without a doubt be engineered in such a shoddy way that the pointless gimmick will compromise the whole jawbridge (that's just a given with a guy like Ruben at the helm).

I care...


:

I care too!

The sword opens the castle. It's the key. That's always been VERY imporant to me. It's actually one of the things that I asked about on Ask Matty. I love that they are including SOMETHING... I'd prefer if it actually triggered the lock, but if not... at least SOMETHING...

For the same reason they totally ignored the endless requests, pleas and begging to have Frosta in her original paint-master colors. Someone at Mattel had this idea that the Castle should include a parking spot for the Wind Raider, so that supposedly it would promote sales of the vehicle, and they will stubbornly ignore any and all fan input on the matter regardless of how absurd, pointless and counterproductive their ill-advised idea turned out to be.

The parking spot is nothing but a 'bonus'. I think it sucks... and I don't think it will work... but HONESTLY, the reason it is THERE is pretty straight forward.

SOMEONE decided that the castle needed that 'rock base' lifting it up. Then that same someone decided that the jawbridge should be on the same level as the first floor...

This makes sense in it's own way.. but I really don't care for the final result. I would MUCH rather have had the castle sitting on the ground, where your table is the 'main floor' just like every castle before it. HOWEVER... if the first floor is raised to jawbridge level... then HECK YES we need that windraider perch... That's half the display area right there!!! Putting a hole in that pie piece is just a bonus for the WR... but the pie piece is necessary with that raised floor.

Which HONESTLY... looks to me like less of a 'mattel' decision and more of a '4H' decision. I'm all for assigning blame where it belongs. Some of the issues we have are because it was scaled down... but some of them are the 'sculpt' problems... Trap door placement... raised drawbridge... That should have been designed a bit better.

[Inhibitor]

At the risk of sounding like a heretic, I'd be okay with gutting more of the interior (windraider base, jetpack) if it meant beefing up the facade.

[Jobber]

Don't know if anyone has suggested this but here it goes:

If they are going to charge us $250-$275 for the castle. Either make it so it can be seperated and can be extended with add-on walls, making it a REAL PLAYSET. Or... ditch the back and cut the price in half. I'm fine with a Facade. I know everyone wants a full Castle, but if people are going to **** and moan about the price and size of the thing then give the fans the option of adding on walls (however many they want) and just focus on a facade. Saves on plastic, sculpt, maufacturing, and complaints. I'm sure Mattel can find a way to expand the playset and make inexspensive sculpted walls.

[Lay Ze-Man]

Another big problem IMO is that Scott can be an over-enthusiastic salesman when it comes to trying to hype this stuff, and it leads him into unintentionally misleading (read as deceitful or bait-and-switchy by some fans) because he's "selling" something that technically doesn't exist. Think about so many of the times he's put his foot in his mouth, and I think it's in large part because he wants to close the sale FIRST, and worry about those pesky particulars later.

[batz75]

B-sheet Proto
H: 25.425'' H: 23''
W: 17.4'' W: 18''
D: 11.5''* D: 11.5''

How on Earth can anyone who has sunk nearly $300 (some cases more) into one of these castles, take these measurements as good news? The reasoning behind ending up at this point is really irrelevent, what is relevant is that nothing pertaining to this castle is in scale with this line. I posted these photos earlier in this thread as a joke that my kids came up with. Now the really sad part, this goofy cottage that I bought my daughter for maybe $50, is actually bigger in dimension, 24" H x 16" W, with three sections that when opened stretch over 42" W. It has electronics, and obsurdly is almost in same scale to MOTUC figures as the Not-so-Classic Castle Grayskull. It was made for 4" figures! If this is the castle we're getting stuck with, than lets at least call it what it is, it's a cop out by Mattel. They asked us to go all in on this with alot of promises, and now that its not what it could have been, the answer of course is the one they learned from there hoverboard fiasco, "if your not satisfied, then cancel". Well that answer sucks, only because they know the majority of people that ordered this did so because they really wanted it, and that by standing pat on this obvious miss, most of those who ordered will accept what is given, because this is the only castle we're getting. The fact of the matter is, to call this A Classic Castle Grayskull, would be to imply in some way that it is part of The Masters of the Universe Classics line, it is not. For that to be the case, Mattel has to go back to the drawing board, literally, and make the necessary adjustments. We've already been told that won't happen. So the least they can do is acknowledge that they missed by quite a bit on this, and then make promises that it won't happen again. That seems to work for them.

[braxsis364]

What they have done to Grayskull is a travesty. to say the least and all I know is. that when they come up with oh look, we're makeing the largest bigest bad'ess snake mountain. but ah alass. subject to change, witch realy means will change. with out a dought thanks for your understanding. untill next time you have the power.

That being said I will not be wanting there version of Snake mountain.

[TwoBad]

Reading the 4H Men message again and the comments above...I guess the message confused me and it's not great news after all. Looks like there will be no major changes to cottage grayskull and same size and interior problems still persist. For that I take my 'great news' comment back. Hope they address all the issues soon and give us a better worthy of $300 CG than what they've shown us.

[ADPriceless]

I think what annoys me the most is that initially when CG was announced a tentative price of $200 was mentioned by Toyguru. When the pre-order went up the price moved to $250 to allow them some wriggle room to ensure that the piece could be fuly costed and they could deliver the best CG ever.

Roll on NYTF and the castle has been scaled back in size, features/details reined in and from the various interviews and comments it appears that there maybe further changes and 'value engineering' to fit within the price set further down the line.

The prices, sizes and what was offered were set out by Mattel but the fact is that they either miscalculated or over promised and it is the loyal customer who has to take it on the chin.

The castle looks great but the size and some of the decisions of what to leave out really puzzles me - pretty much no-one wants the Wind Raider parking bay and also the removeable handle is something that very few seem bothered about - surely these items would be first to be considered for the chop?

I didnt pre-order as a I wanted to see what I was getting - as a fan in the UK its a $400+ commitment all told - and while it pains me to say it, I'm glad I sat this one out.

[EagleOne]

How tall would the opening have to be to fit He-man riding Battlecat?
Just something I've been wondering.

[guardianmonkey]

From Facebook:

Where is their Facebook? I tried the link from their main website but it's a dead link.

[IrrepressibleDH]

Another thing that upsets me is why couldn't Matty have taken the hit on this one? Surely if this is the flagship MotUC item, they would want it to be the talking point of how awesome Matty is, how great it is to order from them, and how happy everyone is with their purchase. They could have offset the costs further down the line.
Even if they didn't offset the costs, the reputation value of their company would have skyrocketed and more subs would have rolled in through customer recommendations alone.

Instead all we get is the usual thing. Matty seeing a chance to bait and switch, just to squeeze a few more $$$ out of us. Another chance to con their loyal customers. It really is pathetic and disgusting.

[Berserker79]

Putting things in perspective...

IT'S MASSIVE!!!
Seriously!!!

http://he-man.org/forums/boards/atta...6&d=1361390345

I don't see anything massive in this picture. I see a beautiful castle which is too small...

Everyone knows, that there won't be any important changes. Most customers are fine. For those of us, who aren't, there is only dissapointment. Mattel could have done something spectacular, but I'm reminded at the hoverboard. A big hype and then many changes.

[Zombihamma-AI]

How tall would the opening have to be to fit He-man riding Battlecat?
Just something I've been wondering.

Have a look at my castle ( link signature below ) HM & BC just fit though, this has no were near the stuff the real castle comes, with but it's just ment a background wall relief ,

[KUZEH]

I don't see anything massive in this picture. I see a beautiful castle which is too small...

Everyone knows, that there won't be any important changes. Most customers are fine. For those of us, who aren't, there is only dissapointment. Mattel could have done something spectacular, but I'm reminded at the hoverboard. A big hype and then many changes.

So if it were 2 inches taller, would it be massive?...
Because that's the only difference between this sculpt and the B-Sheet...
The proto is actually wider...
Not sure what your point is...

[Micro-Man]

How tall would the opening have to be to fit He-man riding Battlecat?
Just something I've been wondering.

When I planned out my Castle Grayskull backdrop, the starting point was the Jawbridge. By my measurements, the entrance needed at least 11" of clearance to have enough room for He-Man to enter while riding Battle Cat. Everything else was scaled around that...Here are some quick before & after pics:

[scott metzger]

If this is the castle we're getting stuck with, than lets at least call it what it is, it's a cop out by Mattel. They asked us to go all in on this with alot of promises, and now that its not what it could have been, the answer of course is the one they learned from there hoverboard fiasco, "if your not satisfied, then cancel". Well that answer sucks, only because they know the majority of people that ordered this did so because they really wanted it, and that by standing pat on this obvious miss, most of those who ordered will accept what is given, because this is the only castle we're getting. The fact of the matter is, to call this A Classic Castle Grayskull, would be to imply in some way that it is part of The Masters of the Universe Classics line, it is not. For that to be the case, Mattel has to go back to the drawing board, literally, and make the necessary adjustments. We've already been told that won't happen. So the least they can do is acknowledge that they missed by quite a bit on this, and then make promises that it won't happen again. That seems to work for them.

But here's where I have a problem with that pesky logic thing: adding a mere two inches in height has a negligible effect on the scale, around 8% or so. It does make it taller, but the rest is still pretty much the same. Point is, the castle was NEVER in scale with the figures in the sense you mean. Even at the original dimensions, your talking about a castle that, if a six inch figure is six feet tall, would be a little over 25 feet high, as opposed to 23 feet. That's about the height of a two story building, which would be singularly unimpressive as a castle. And folks who pre-ordered didn't have a problem with that fact beforehand.

He-Man riding on Battle Cat in the castle entrance in the toon (where proportions weren't exactly consistent) had loads of room above them, meaning the castle entrance was maybe 15-20 feet alone. That would make the entrance alone almost the size of this whole castle. Even making it so He-Man can ride Battle cat through and barely make it (as many had hoped for) would require the entrance to be about 12 inches high, again putting the castle's proportions WAY above what was originally shown.

Bottom line is we were never getting an in-scale castle, and such a thing is not possible for the price point we're talking about. Arguing that the castle was scaled down is one thing, but bringing in the whole "scaled to the figures" question isn't really relevant; it was never really part of the equation to begin with.

[batz75]

But here's where I have a problem with that pesky logic thing: adding a mere two inches in height has a negligible effect on the scale, around 8% or so. It does make it taller, but the rest is still pretty much the same. Point is, the castle was NEVER in scale with the figures in the sense you mean. Even at the original dimensions, your talking about a castle that, if a six inch figure is six feet tall, would be a little over 25 feet high, as opposed to 23 feet. That's about the height of a two story building, which would be singularly unimpressive as a castle. And folks who pre-ordered didn't have a problem with that fact beforehand.

He-Man riding on Battle Cat in the castle entrance in the toon (where proportions weren't exactly consistent) had loads of room above them, meaning the castle entrance was maybe 15-20 feet alone. That would make the entrance alone almost the size of this whole castle. Even making it so He-Man can ride Battle cat through and barely make it (as many had hoped for) would require the entrance to be about 12 inches high, again putting the castle's proportions WAY above what was originally shown.

Bottom line is we were never getting an in-scale castle, and such a thing is not possible for the price point we're talking about. Arguing that the castle was scaled down is one thing, but bringing in the whole "scaled to the figures" question isn't really relevant; it was never really part of the equation to begin with.

It is most certainly relevant, as this item is being sold as a part of the MOTUC line, and therefore should at the very least come as close as possible to being in scale with the figures they sell you. Obviously it can never be in proper scale, it should at least pass the eye test (figures should fit through the door easily, figures should not hit there heads on the floors above, etc.) The fact that this is pitched as being a part of this line, and not a stand alone item, is in fact the entire problem. There are no complaints about the size of the Icon Heroes Castle because it wasn't designed to go with what amounts to a small fortune in figures that preceeded it. I think most people would agree that it is not far from where it needs to be, and that yes, a couple of inches here and there could possibly make it right. We've all sunk a ton of money into this line, and truthfully have gotten great products, its just a shame that the biggest piece of this collection just falls short.

[EagleOne]

Thank you Micro-Man. I'm working on a closer to scale Castle Grayskull idea. I wanted to make sure that a 13" door would be large enough.

But here's where I have a problem with that pesky logic thing: adding a mere two inches in height has a negligible effect on the scale, around 8% or so. It does make it taller, but the rest is still pretty much the same. Point is, the castle was NEVER in scale with the figures in the sense you mean. Even at the original dimensions, your talking about a castle that, if a six inch figure is six feet tall, would be a little over 25 feet high, as opposed to 23 feet. That's about the height of a two story building, which would be singularly unimpressive as a castle. And folks who pre-ordered didn't have a problem with that fact beforehand.

He-Man riding on Battle Cat in the castle entrance in the toon (where proportions weren't exactly consistent) had loads of room above them, meaning the castle entrance was maybe 15-20 feet alone. That would make the entrance alone almost the size of this whole castle. Even making it so He-Man can ride Battle cat through and barely make it (as many had hoped for) would require the entrance to be about 12 inches high, again putting the castle's proportions WAY above what was originally shown.

Bottom line is we were never getting an in-scale castle, and such a thing is not possible for the price point we're talking about. Arguing that the castle was scaled down is one thing, but bringing in the whole "scaled to the figures" question isn't really relevant; it was never really part of the equation to begin with.

I agree with you Scott. It was never going to be in scale, (medival castle's were in the 30-50 foot tall range), but I am diasappointed in the thickness of the base and how it shortened the levels. I'm still getting one, but as I just said, this disappointment has spurred me to try my hand at making a 50+ inch tall one on my own. I'll probably just steal the internal parts from the matty one for decoration.

[Darkspecter]

The real difference is this:

B-sheet Proto
H: 25.425'' H: 23''
W: 17.4'' W: 18''
D: 11.5''* D: 11.5''

* This is approximate by looking at the b-sheet. It's never precisely called out on the b-sheet, but it gives you the widths of each individual section and when you take out the widths of the interior you're left with about this much.

This is another measurement from the 4H:

...the door is 8" tall or 7" tall when the jaw bridge is open.

That's very disappointing, to me. This is exactly what I was afraid of; MOST figures will not be able to fit in the entrance of Castle Grayskull. I just measured He-Man and he will just BARELY fit there! Evil-Lyn and Vikor definitely will not fit. I wanted to try measuring more characters, but I was having an unfortunate domino-effect and didn't want ALL my figures to fall over. Simply by LOOKING at the figures though, I don't really see many others that will fit in the entrance. Skeletor and Trap-Jaw look like they will. Hordak, Catra, She-Ra, King Grayskull, King Randor and MANY others do not look like they will.

[JonWes]

Scott makes a good point and it's part of what mystifies me about some of the backlash. I don't think the Castle was ever going to be what some people wanted based on what some people are saying. It was never going to be 3 foot high with enough room for Battle Cat and He-man to ride through. I know the cardboard mock-up was misleading in that regard, but looking at the measurements, even at 9'' on the b-sheet that would not have been enough. So I'm confused as to why they ordered expecting something different? I think some people just have a hard time wrapping around the reality of the scale of something until they see it. I can see that, I guess.