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Thread: MOTUC Castle Grayskull Discussion Thread

  1. #4626
    Heroic Warrior Tarquinius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyOneSkeletor View Post
    I kinda suspect (sorry if it was mentionned upthere) but production cost savings
    is IMHO the keyword here.
    They surely outperformed a certain quota of castles for 'em to be profitable enough and
    unfortunaly this implies to let cherry pickers's enthusiasm do the rest ...
    I get what you're saying and you might be right...however I try to stay away from assumptions.

    BUT if we were to accept your idea as a hypothetical we are still faced with this: there is a difference between making your money back, making profit and making big bucks profit.

    Now I'm not sure which one CG would fall underneath for Mattel because...well frankly none of us have the books for Mattel's finances. But hypothetical....in a typical business model the only way a company could go on to produce such another giant product would be with the financial momentum after making "big bucks profit."

    Personally....I wish this is the case because I would love a Snake MT

  2. #4627
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarquinius View Post
    I get what you're saying and you might be right...however I try to stay away from assumptions.

    BUT if we were to accept your idea as a hypothetical we are still faced with this: there is a difference between making your money back, making profit and making big bucks profit.

    Now I'm not sure which one CG would fall underneath for Mattel because...well frankly none of us have the books for Mattel's finances. But hypothetical....in a typical business model the only way a company could go on to produce such another giant product would be with the financial momentum after making "big bucks profit."

    Personally....I wish this is the case because I would love a Snake MT
    Yep, this is not just fans selling to fans (yes, we know TG and the MC team and the 4H are fans, but not all of Mattel is), Mattel is not OK with just breaking even. Breaking even is dangerously close to losing money. In order to get the greenlight from on high for additional playsets, CG would have had to have made back its initial investment a few times over.
    Hey, if you want to wallow in the negative, go nuts. Sure, things arenít absolutely perfect, and people passionate about a property can get all keyed up about things. But I donít collect toys to be miserable. So Iíd rather think about the things that do excite me
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  3. #4628
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    They have. The main line Transformers stuff is a joke. Plastic quality is crap, the toys feel flimsy, new waves are released erratically (if they ever hit the shelves), paint jobs are awful (if there even is paint), and the amount of half assed repaints and remolds is a joke. Masterpiece is the only worthwhile line, and that's mainly Takara. Trying to get the Hasbro releases is an exercise in frustration. If Toys R Us even bothers to put them on the shelf, they're instantly bought out by scalpers. And Toysrus.com is an absolute joke. Every Masterpiece is a "chase" figure - no one knows when they're going for sale online, and even if they do, there's no guarantee that submitting an order will even get you one.

    Star Wars is the biggest name in licensing, and even then they've manged to screw it up. The new 3.75" figures all look awful. The Black Series is the only thing worth getting, and even then, again, good luck finding a Boba Fett or Stormtrooper on the shelves. If you're super lucky, you can randomly snag one on Amazon for retail price. Figures aren't sculpted by hand, it's all done digitally. And even then the human heads look terrible, most of the figures have some sort of glaring paint issue, the articulation scheme all around is a mess (no waist cut, no ab crunch, double jointed shoulders that make figures look like they have monkey arms, etc). You don't get figures delivered to your door every month, they come out in "waves" every few months, and if you buy a case to get what you want, you may end up with doubles. And on top of that SDCC exclusives that pass off fans worse than anything Matty's ever done.

    And that's if they would even bother making toys instead of just tossing the property onto the stack of IP they own but do nothing with. MOTUC may not be perfect, but it is much better than what we would get from Hasbro. I do not want Hasbro ******** on the property. That is not the fate I want for MOTU.
    the grass is always greener. Hasbro gives gi joe (not so much now) and transformers a tonne of chances and different media exposures, but hearing the stories from fans, they are inundated with a lot of crap quality and questionable ideas, not to mention the SDCC sales are very sparodic. wth mattel and MOTU especially we have a company that is afraid to spend money on making the brand something big again. and are stuck with a basically sub only model with very high prices. and no new media outside of a mixed bag comic.
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  4. #4629
    Heroic Warrior Tarquinius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goluphi View Post
    Yep, this is not just fans selling to fans (yes, we know TG and the MC team and the 4H are fans, but not all of Mattel is), Mattel is not OK with just breaking even. Breaking even is dangerously close to losing money. In order to get the greenlight from on high for additional playsets, CG would have had to have made back its initial investment a few times over.
    Exactly. And if you read TG's blog over on MattyCollector...numerous times he references how the initial SDCC King GS figure's profits was used to kickstart the line financially.

    Now obviously things have changed because back then the line was untested and the market response was unknown. However the same basic principal exists as you pointed out- present sales and profit predict future product

  5. #4630
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    Comparing retail to sub doesn't really work. If Mattel ever brings MOTU to retail, for a movie release or whatever, you can expect exactly this approach, loads of goofy colored missile firing he-men. It's not just Hasbro, this is what pretty much every toy company with a big retail presence does, flood the market with the big names to draw in the kids and parents. One need only look at the Mattel DC retail lines for an idea of what you'd get. Despite the cruddy distribution, I still don't think anything of Mattels retail boys lines compares to anything Hasbro is putting out. Even Hasbros 5 poa figures look better than most of Mattels similar products. Aside from the 4H, Mattels sculpters just don't seem comparable to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    My thoughts too. I keep thinking of GI Joe or Marvel...

    Every year we would get He-man, Skeletor, Man-at-Arms, Merman, and Stratos. They would release these same figures over and over and over again. SOMETIMES with a different Paint or accessory... many times not even that.

    Seriously... The Duke-Snakeeyes-Stormshadow, Optimus-Bumblebee-megatron, Cap-Iron Man Spiderman, love fest at Hasbro has REALLY gotten on my nerves.

    Then of course there is the non-Hasbro Thundercat line that was Lion-O, Mummra, Tigra.... Change sizes and Lion-O, Mummra, Tigra.... and I can't think of ANY 80's properties that have done as well rebooting the line as MOTU has... Length of Line + diversity of Characters goes a LONG way to claiming success here.

  6. #4631
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeusguy View Post
    Comparing retail to sub doesn't really work. If Mattel ever brings MOTU to retail, for a movie release or whatever, you can expect exactly this approach, loads of goofy colored missile firing he-men. It's not just Hasbro, this is what pretty much every toy company with a big retail presence does, flood the market with the big names to draw in the kids and parents. One need only look at the Mattel DC retail lines for an idea of what you'd get. Despite the cruddy distribution, I still don't think anything of Mattels retail boys lines compares to anything Hasbro is putting out. Even Hasbros 5 poa figures look better than most of Mattels similar products. Aside from the 4H, Mattels sculpters just don't seem comparable to me.
    I'm not even sure what Mattel has for boys lines anymore.... but my point stands. Would goofy colored missle fire he-man be PREFERABLE to the line we have now? 6 years, and over 100 different charcters later... I haven't seen ANY 80's properties come CLOSE to that...

    UNLESS you want to consider the Marvel Universe 3.75 as a 'reboot' of the secret Wars toys... That's kind of how they started... Still, I have had a LOT more quality control issues with THOSE then I do with MOTUC...

    Soooo yeah, I'm happy with how Mattel runs it (mostly... I STILL hate the sub only philosophy...) but saying Hasbro would do it better... I see no evidence of that.

  7. #4632
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    While I don't think Hasbro would be able to do better, I do believe you'd be able to walk into a store and probably find multiple lines, both collector and kid focused, or the remnants of them anyway, and you'd probably have a new tv series as well to accompany a line for whatever that show is. And would goofy colored missile firing He-Man really be so bad if it were bringing some fresh blood into the Masters of the Universe? Sure distribution is spotty, but how is ordering a set of & figures off of BBTS much different than subbing up and receiving a figure every month? Now personally, I have no desire to see Hasbro take over the He-Man license, nor would it ever happen, but there's no denying that Mattel could do more with it than they are. A niche line like this is not the best option when it comes to long term exposure of a brand. How much more might we get and for less, if there was some cheapy kiddie line on the side helping to pay for the bigger stuff? Say what you will about the transformers movies and toys, but it's because of those that we get great figures like Deluxe Waspinator and Voyager Rhinox and countless others from the Classics Generations series. If the Joe movies and lines had done better, I've no doubt we'd see a ton more of the classic stuff from that line as well. If we're lucky enough that this line is still going whenever the Masters film finally happens, I have no doubt you might start hearing that a Snake Mountain is possible after all.

  8. #4633
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeusguy View Post
    While I don't think Hasbro would be able to do better, I do believe you'd be able to walk into a store and probably find multiple lines, both collector and kid focused, or the remnants of them anyway, and you'd probably have a new tv series as well to accompany a line for whatever that show is. And would goofy colored missile firing He-Man really be so bad if it were bringing some fresh blood into the Masters of the Universe?
    Wasn't pointless varients like Smash Blade and Disco considered to be the thing that killed 200x? I never saw anything past the 8 back in the store... heard they got to 12, but never saw them around here... Just multiples of He-man and Skeletor...

    And they didn't do a GREAT job of bringing in the new blood...


    I don't doubt they would have TRIED a new series or something... but Hasbro doesn't seem to stick with them much. GI Joe keeps trying, but they abandon each direction pretty fast.

  9. #4634
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    the grass is always greener. Hasbro gives gi joe (not so much now) and transformers a tonne of chances and different media exposures, but hearing the stories from fans, they are inundated with a lot of crap quality and questionable ideas, not to mention the SDCC sales are very sparodic. wth mattel and MOTU especially we have a company that is afraid to spend money on making the brand something big again. and are stuck with a basically sub only model with very high prices. and no new media outside of a mixed bag comic.
    Oh ya, great idea, give Hasbro control of MOTU's media, the ones who sell out their properties to the lowest bidder so they can make something that barely even resembles the original media, just pasting classic names over a generic action movie.

    We'd see something like this if you did tha:

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

    MICHAEL BAY PRESENTS: A MICHAEL BAY production. In a world where an evil corporation has taken over New York, there is only one hope: THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE: THE RISE OF HE-MAN, starring CHANNING TATUM as Adam, a down on his luck New York bartender who finds the magical wise-cracking POWER SWORD (voiced by Kevin Hart) after a meteor crashes into his back yard. Granting him mysterious techno powers through a nano-grafted POWER-SUIT (tm), Adam becomes He-Man, heroic vigilante. With help from the mysterious love interest TEELA played by RIHANNA, Adam must defeat the evil GRAYSKULL CORPORATION and it's alien CEO SKELETOR (MARK WAHLBERG) . Coming this Fall to a theatre near you.
    Last edited by goluphi; June 12, 2014 at 10:48pm.
    Hey, if you want to wallow in the negative, go nuts. Sure, things arenít absolutely perfect, and people passionate about a property can get all keyed up about things. But I donít collect toys to be miserable. So Iíd rather think about the things that do excite me
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  10. #4635
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    200x did bring in new blood. Do you think everyone single member of this board are only vintage and filmation fans? I'm willing to bet there's a good amount of members here that for them 200x was their first encounter with He-Man and made them fans. And while I can't argue that ridiculous variants helped do in the 200x line, it was more the ridiculous amount they were packing per case in comparison to new characters as opposed to their existence in general. Don't forget, back in the vintage days, things like Thunderpunch He-Man and Dragon Blaster Skeletor were some of those "goofy variants". The trick is to balance it out and not pack them 3 per case every case and toss in a Teela as an afterthought. As for that Michael Bay movie, regardless of the quality, if it made a ton of money, you can bet the Classics stuff we could get would be greatly expanded as a result. I don't see how that's not a win win situation, regardless of the quality of the film itself. Trans fans got a giant transformable Metroplex last year, you can bet that wouldn't have happened without the boost in revenue from the films. The same could happen for MOTUC, and items like Snake Mountain.

  11. #4636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeusguy View Post
    200x did bring in new blood. Do you think everyone single member of this board are only vintage and filmation fans? I'm willing to bet there's a good amount of members here that for them 200x was their first encounter with He-Man and made them fans. And while I can't argue that ridiculous variants helped do in the 200x line, it was more the ridiculous amount they were packing per case in comparison to new characters as opposed to their existence in general. Don't forget, back in the vintage days, things like Thunderpunch He-Man and Dragon Blaster Skeletor were some of those "goofy variants". The trick is to balance it out and not pack them 3 per case every case and toss in a Teela as an afterthought..
    Sure... there were new fans, and it was distribution that killed it. Too many variants. Stupid pointless repaints at that... and not enough new characters.

    The same as all the modern retail lines do.

    The things that killed the 200x line... are the SAME things that they complain about on the Marvel Universe websites right now.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zeusguy View Post
    As for that Michael Bay movie, regardless of the quality, if it made a ton of money, you can bet the Classics stuff we could get would be greatly expanded as a result. I don't see how that's not a win win situation, regardless of the quality of the film itself. Trans fans got a giant transformable Metroplex last year, you can bet that wouldn't have happened without the boost in revenue from the films. The same could happen for MOTUC, and items like Snake Mountain.
    Ehhhh... Only if Mattel (or whoever... not sure where the conversations at now days... ) REALLY wanted to push 2 or 3 lines...

    Honestly, I have a hard time ever encouraging BAD media or 'Expansion for the sake of expansion'

    Eventually something becomes unrecognizable and its simply not the same property anymore.

    I consider Bayformers (despite hating that term...) to be on par with New Adventures. Similar names... similar tropes... completely unrecognizable in appearance or attitude or lore. Just saying YEAH... but they made another show!!! DOESN'T really excite me too much if I don't LIKE the media or the direction.

    And the way new media has a way of taking over and pushing out the 'core' entities... and becoming the 'real' version... I don't know. I just can't buy into it.

  12. #4637
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    I collect Marvel universe quite enthusiasticly, and frequent several boards for that particular line, and character variants never really comes up as a complaint, most I've spoken to see it as a necessary evil, retail wants the big names, it's how we get the Deaths Heads and Whirlwinds. The case pack outs however, and including Iron Man version X at 3 per case in wave one, and then again in wave 2, seems to be the thing that causes frustration, and it's what creates the back log. There's a balancing act there, and it's tricky. Include too many C listers per case and you end up with just as much of a clog as if you packed a ton of Iron Men. in my neck of the woods we're drowning in Black Knights and Auroras right now, both great figures, but over saturated unfortunately. If MOTUC was retail, you'd have the chances of even the hard core, highly sought after figures becoming peg warmers. If you had a case of 4 He-Mans and 4 Shadow Weavers and 4 Two Bads for example, and a store got in a couple cases, you'd have them sitting after a while, regardless of how well done the figures are.

    As for new media, I'm not trying to convince you that new media is great, but if having that new media existing and being successful could make a Classics Snake Mountain possible, wouldn't it be worth it? A cruddy product we can ignore, so that we can get something we do want? Seems like a good trade off to me. And for every cruddy bayformers, you occasionally get a gem, like Beast Wars or Transformers Animated.

  13. #4638
    Heroic Warrior goluphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeusguy View Post
    I collect Marvel universe quite enthusiasticly, and frequent several boards for that particular line, and character variants never really comes up as a complaint, most I've spoken to see it as a necessary evil, retail wants the big names, it's how we get the Deaths Heads and Whirlwinds. The case pack outs however, and including Iron Man version X at 3 per case in wave one, and then again in wave 2, seems to be the thing that causes frustration, and it's what creates the back log. There's a balancing act there, and it's tricky. Include too many C listers per case and you end up with just as much of a clog as if you packed a ton of Iron Men. in my neck of the woods we're drowning in Black Knights and Auroras right now, both great figures, but over saturated unfortunately. If MOTUC was retail, you'd have the chances of even the hard core, highly sought after figures becoming peg warmers. If you had a case of 4 He-Mans and 4 Shadow Weavers and 4 Two Bads for example, and a store got in a couple cases, you'd have them sitting after a while, regardless of how well done the figures are.

    As for new media, I'm not trying to convince you that new media is great, but if having that new media existing and being successful could make a Classics Snake Mountain possible, wouldn't it be worth it? A cruddy product we can ignore, so that we can get something we do want? Seems like a good trade off to me. And for every cruddy bayformers, you occasionally get a gem, like Beast Wars or Transformers Animated.
    New media would be great, especially if it was successful. Even if it was Bayified, heck, I don't have anything against him, he makes entertaining movies that people flock to and make a bunch of money. Mattel IS working on new media, the MOTU movie has been in development for years. It seems like Mattel wants to do it right, they have a vision for the MOTU brand, and they don't want to do it the Hollywood way, so it might take a while before it's a reality (and even then it might not be successful enough to actually draw new people to the brand).
    Hey, if you want to wallow in the negative, go nuts. Sure, things arenít absolutely perfect, and people passionate about a property can get all keyed up about things. But I donít collect toys to be miserable. So Iíd rather think about the things that do excite me
    http://thefwoosh.com/2014/06/masters...beyond-vintage

  14. #4639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeusguy View Post
    I collect Marvel universe quite enthusiasticly, and frequent several boards for that particular line, and character variants never really comes up as a complaint, most I've spoken to see it as a necessary evil, retail wants the big names, it's how we get the Deaths Heads and Whirlwinds. The case pack outs however, and including Iron Man version X at 3 per case in wave one, and then again in wave 2, seems to be the thing that causes frustration, and it's what creates the back log. There's a balancing act there, and it's tricky. Include too many C listers per case and you end up with just as much of a clog as if you packed a ton of Iron Men. in my neck of the woods we're drowning in Black Knights and Auroras right now, both great figures, but over saturated unfortunately. If MOTUC was retail, you'd have the chances of even the hard core, highly sought after figures becoming peg warmers. If you had a case of 4 He-Mans and 4 Shadow Weavers and 4 Two Bads for example, and a store got in a couple cases, you'd have them sitting after a while, regardless of how well done the figures are.
    That's cool.

    When the new Marvel Infinte line was announced with the bleeding Edge Iron Man and the Captain America we JUST got and Wasp was (I think) one per case... the board I was on just lit UP.... Everyone couldn't fathom the idea of the immediate rereleases and accused Hasbro of trying to kill the lien!!!

    And There's always the issue with Marvel 3.75 competing with itself with 3 movie lines, a spiderman line and general line all putting out the same character at the same time... but that's a different complaint




    Quote Originally Posted by Zeusguy View Post
    As for new media, I'm not trying to convince you that new media is great, but if having that new media existing and being successful could make a Classics Snake Mountain possible, wouldn't it be worth it? A cruddy product we can ignore, so that we can get something we do want? Seems like a good trade off to me. And for every cruddy bayformers, you occasionally get a gem, like Beast Wars or Transformers Animated.
    I would find it unlikely to get a classics Snake Mountain out of the deal is all. I think we may get a MOVIE Snake mountain... and it's a coin toss as to whether I'd even want THAT....

    Reminds me of 200x. We had new media... and while we got one variant of He-man with his tradional iron cross harness... we didn't get a classic looking Grayskull... we got the 200x grayskull. Which I didn't bother buying...

    It's possible we would get some new things that were inspired by the vintage stuff... but new media tends to overwhelm the old. it gets pushed hard at the customers to the exclusion of most everything else.

    Transformers does a LITTLE better. We still see the occasional G1 influenced thing, but most of it is either Movie or 'TF Prime' stuff.

  15. #4640
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    I kinda like the game show host Castle Grayskull... "Skeletor! YOU are not WELCOME here!......A New CAAAR!!!"

  16. #4641
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    It really WASN'T a big deal though. My pre-order was canceled... I called once, and four minutes later had a new order number. MAY have screwed up the 'shipping' time in the first ordered/first shipped... but I'll never know.

    I see a lot of people talking about hoops and such... but DR knew exactly why I called, and solved the problem immediately.
    I have to agree about this one - it was way, way overblown. I got mine handled in two emails. If you really read through the threads, very few people were actually affected - only those that called previously during the year to change their info. What you saw was a LOT of folks being scared crapless because of how credit card authorizations work and how slow DR was between authorizing the charge initially and posting it, which caused it to appear to have refunded even though it wasn't, banks just release funds back to you as a courtesy when a company takes so long to post a charge.

    Now, I'm not saying their slowness freaking folks out was OK for DR to do, or any thing of the sort - it's DR. But, the folks that actually had them cancelled because of the "wrong card updated" issue was isolated to only those folks who called during the year to change the cards, because DR hadn't trained them that the card number was baked into the original orders, and changing it elsewhere wasn't changing a thing. Totally their fault, again, though - not defending that, just being realistic as to the only folks that would have actually been affected.

    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Frankly... if there are NUMEROUS posts of Fans saying they fully intend to push the Pre-order through and then cancel their cards or only buy 1 of the 10 they committed to... then WHY does everyone think that Mattel is in the wrong for looking at the evidence of EXACTLY that Happening?!?

    This kind of fraud talk happens EVERY YEAR when the sub drives start. People BRAG about how they'll 'get' mattel by canceling their cards.

    YEAH, DR screwed up... but there was PLENTY of opportunity to fix the issue, and they were good about getting the issue fixed. IF they intended to honor their agreement... They obviously didn't.

    Frankly, I think 'the fans' would get less blame... if they would stop talking about varies ways to 'play the system'.
    Eh, links? I didn't see anyone say that. If you say they exist I'll believe you, but I followed that stuff and somehow missed them - and they were certainly "fringe" if they did. What I did see was folks that when the cancellations were occurring, saying "screw it, not bothering if they can't do it right" because they called like good little customers, updated the info, and DR processed it incorrectly.

    Regardless, this is all moot - because (see below) they took cancellations well into the production process and until only a few months before release because of the broken promises that they made. They used the "hey we are offering refunds!" as the mantra excuse when folks pointed out their dissatisfaction at the changes. So if they called or emailed to cancel, or just let their cards lapse, Mattel still would have made the same amount of Castles and would have been stuck with the same number of them largely by their own doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarquinius View Post
    First of all, they EXPLICITLY noted that CG was subject to change even within the pre-order stage. I totally get that we can lobby for changes that we don't like and even in reflection judge CG accordingly...but we *cannot* blame any single entity or person within Mattel for those changes. All I'm saying is lay off TG because he is the only visible person from Mattel. What about Paul from design, or Joe, or Bob or Sally (all hypothetical people of course).
    To be honest, that argument is getting so tired.

    He has made himself the face of the brand. Paul, Joe, and Bob aren't trying to style themselves with "celebrity" status and soak up the limelight but pretend the shadow he casts is someone elses fault. His choice to be that "visible" person. There are a myriad of reasons he brings it on himself, mostly because his foot seems to naturally want to slide into his mouth and he often makes minor things turn into big controversies just by opening his mouth more, but that's all been well-documented and isn't worth going blow by blow and repeating here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOfTeela View Post


    Eh, links? I didn't see anyone say that. If you say they exist I'll believe you, but I followed that stuff and somehow missed them - and they were certainly "fringe" if they did. What I did see was folks that when the cancellations were occurring, saying "screw it, not bothering if they can't do it right" because they called like good little customers, updated the info, and DR processed it incorrectly.
    http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...088&pp=&page=7

    Did a search on this thread for 'cancel CC' and got 359 hits. Some for the idea, some against it in the way that Forum conversations go. But they go back LONG before the DR mess up almost as far back as the Castle announcement.

    Things like this....

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisware View Post
    I can't be the only person who has had this thought cross their mind:

    Since they don't charge anything to your card when you pre-order Castle Grayskull, and there doesn't seem to be a limit to how many you can order...

    What would prevent someone from ordering about 5000 of them to guarantee that it gets produced?
    There was talk like this before it was approved... then more talk every time there was a new reveal (Size, style, door, accessories). They sounded like empty threats to me... but I have no way of knowing for sure.

    Still it happens every time there is a sub drive that people think this is clever, and then the mods come on to try to nip that kind of talk in the bud.

  18. #4643
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    I believe Scott said that Mattel did check with individuals ordering multiple castles to ensure they were legit. Not sure what they did, but I don't think they just took orders for 5000 castles at face value.
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    He has made himself the face of the brand. Paul, Joe, and Bob aren't trying to style themselves with "celebrity" status and soak up the limelight but pretend the shadow he casts is someone elses fault. His choice to be that "visible" person. There are a myriad of reasons he brings it on himself, mostly because his foot seems to naturally want to slide into his mouth and he often makes minor things turn into big controversies just by opening his mouth more, but that's all been well-documented and isn't worth going blow by blow and repeating here.
    Personally, I admire him specifically for making himself the face of the brand- Not for "celebrity status" but so Paul, Joe, and Bob can do their jobs without being witched at & demoralized from every corner of the internet. This whole one-on-one online interaction between company and customer has been an interesting new frontier to see played out over the years. Taking the heat and criticism for issues regarding product seems part of that job and he shoulders it pretty well in my opinion. Both for issues that are the company's fault and those that aren't. There may be other examples out there, but this is one of the first times I've seen this kind of business paradigm. It has both it's advantages and flaws to be sure but speaking only for myself, I think it's been a worthy experiment so far.

  20. #4645
    Heroic Warrior Tarquinius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOfTeela View Post

    To be honest, that argument is getting so tired.

    He has made himself the face of the brand. Paul, Joe, and Bob aren't trying to style themselves with "celebrity" status and soak up the limelight but pretend the shadow he casts is someone elses fault. His choice to be that "visible" person. There are a myriad of reasons he brings it on himself, mostly because his foot seems to naturally want to slide into his mouth and he often makes minor things turn into big controversies just by opening his mouth more, but that's all been well-documented and isn't worth going blow by blow and repeating here.
    See though what you call "documentation" is basically just speculation and opinion.

    I call this opinion because unless you are gifted with infinite wisdom which allows you to transcend your own opinions and biases to see things from a different perspective than you cannot ground anything which you said in truth. Here is the plain simple fact: You see a media advertisement, you interpret it and you respond. The second part is where everyone gets in trouble because its the interpretation which is subjective and therefore not a valid indicator of reality. And as much as you or anyone else can deny, it's science and I'd be more than happy to PM you any articles or supporting documentation if you care to challenge this because not only have I read them, I actively study them within my profession.

    So the internet and all of it's ongoing commentary which you call "documentation" is realistically a huge melting pot of personal interpretations and opinions. Which is FINE, that's what forums are for. They bring people together to discuss topics. But it is no way, shape or form a body of evidence which can be used to glorify to vilify somebody because they are still just opinions.

    And until someone is given the magical power of seeing reality for it's objective nature and provide us with facts and not their opinions or interpretations of what is happening and how we should judge TG, then we have to come to the simple conclusion that we don't have any clue about Mattel's inner workings, TG's occupational or personal decisions or anything basically.

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