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Thread: When Did Madame Razz and Kowl discover Adora was She-Ra ?

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    Heroic Warrior sweetleprachaun's Avatar
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    When Did Madame Razz and Kowl discover Adora was She-Ra ?

    Was there a cartoon episode where Kowl and Madame Razz discovered Adora was She-Ra or was it just assumed they found out.
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    The Great Eternal! GrtEternal's Avatar
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    Nope, It was never shown. They just knew from the getgo. Not even brought up in the SOTS movie.

    I'm guessing since both Madame Razz and Kowl are smart and wise beyond thier years, they simply deduce that the appearance of She-ra and Adora joing the rebels is connected somehow, so they put 2 and 2 together....
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    Heroic Warrior sweetleprachaun's Avatar
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    You would think someone with a little more firepower would have been trusted. Madame Razz is her MAA ? Crazy....Still, it made for a fun show.
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    "Oh dearie my!" Mer-Man's Minion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrtEternal View Post
    I'm guessing since both Madame Razz and Kowl are smart and wise beyond thier years, they simply deduce that the appearance of She-ra and Adora joing the rebels is connected somehow, so they put 2 and 2 together....
    I prefer the mystery that we don't really know how Madame Razz, Kowl, and the others know She-Ra is Adora's alter ego. The beginning intro says "among them are Light Hope, Madame Razz, Kowl" which indicates to me there are others who know of the connection also that we're just not told of; at least one, anyway...Broom is one example, he clearly knows Adora's secret.
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    The Great Eternal! GrtEternal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mer-Man's Minion View Post
    I prefer the mystery that we don't really know how Madame Razz, Kowl, and the others know She-Ra is Adora's alter ego. The beginning intro says "among them are Light Hope, Madame Razz, Kowl" which indicates to me there are others who know of the connection also that we're just not told of; at least one, anyway...Broom is one example, he clearly knows Adora's secret.
    Actually, it was told to us who else knows...

    Other than the 3 who knows of He-man's secret, Loo-Kee as well knows of it, Thanks to Light Hope!

    Broom is somewhat shaky though. There are some episodes that indicates that he does not know and some that does. I don't think it was actually officially announced that he does or does not. Confusing ain't it?
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    Searchin' My Soul DisneyBoy's Avatar
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    Half the time the writer's didn't know if Spirit was male or female either, so I never really paid much attention to the Broom inconsistencies.

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    "Oh dearie my!" Mer-Man's Minion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrtEternal View Post
    Actually, it was told to us who else knows...
    What I mean is in the She-Ra intro, Adora says "among them" indicating that Light Hope, Madame Razz, and Kowl aren't the only ones who know of Adora's secret. I forgot that Loo-Kee knows, so he's one of those "among them" who know...I still like to think Broom is because I don't recall seeing him not know the secret. I'm not saying I'm right, just that I can't recall any moments off the top of my head. It's been a while since I've watched episodes; I'll try to pay closer attention and catch indications that Broom doesn't know.



    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyBoy View Post
    Half the time the writer's didn't know if Spirit was male or female either, so I never really paid much attention to the Broom inconsistencies.
    How? He's always referred to as male in the 'toon, right? I know in storyboards/scripts some say he's female, but with such a deep masculine voice, well, not even Bea Arthur could pass that off, lol.
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    Court Magician dutch's Avatar
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    Hey,

    He-man/Adam, Man-at-Arms, the Sorceress and I think also Orko knows about Adora's secret.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mer-Man's Minion View Post
    What I mean is in the She-Ra intro, Adora says "among them" indicating that Light Hope, Madame Razz, and Kowl aren't the only ones who know of Adora's secret. I forgot that Loo-Kee knows, so he's one of those "among them" who know...I still like to think Broom is because I don't recall seeing him not know the secret. I'm not saying I'm right, just that I can't recall any moments off the top of my head. It's been a while since I've watched episodes; I'll try to pay closer attention and catch indications that Broom doesn't know.





    How? He's always referred to as male in the 'toon, right? I know in storyboards/scripts some say he's female, but with such a deep masculine voice, well, not even Bea Arthur could pass that off, lol.

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    "Oh dearie my!" Mer-Man's Minion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dutch View Post
    Hey,

    He-man/Adam, Man-at-Arms, the Sorceress and I think also Orko knows about Adora's secret.
    Oh yeah, them too. lol
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    Searchin' My Soul DisneyBoy's Avatar
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    How? He's always referred to as male in the 'toon, right? I know in storyboards/scripts some say he's female, but with such a deep masculine voice, well, not even Bea Arthur could pass that off, lol.

    Awww...Bea Arthur. Miss her already. Loved her guest-stint on Futurama as the female robot. I can still hear her saying "Snu-snu"

    And yes, on the series, thankfully no one ever called poor Spirit a "she"...but behind the scenes there was some confusion. All this to say, if they can't all be totally clear on the gender of a main character, I'm automatically going to overlook the lack of exposition regarding how Razz/Kowl/Broom learned the secret.

    Something to look for though - in "Friendship" Adora has Kowl steal her sword away from Hordak and then bring it to her while she's in her cell. BUT! Kowl flies away before she transforms into She-Ra and none of her dialogue to him explicitly states that that is what she's about to do. SO....it's possible the writers weren't sure at the start of the series whether or not a later story would explain if they knew, or establish that they hadn't known prior. Seems they were keeping it vague...unless an earlier episode shows Adora changing in front of all of them.

    I really loved that Razz knew. Yes, I know they were just mirroring MAA and Orko being aware of He-Man's secret...but Razz was more of a mother character, and that made it all more personal, I felt.

    I especially love how suspicious Razz gets when Adora's nurse from the Fright Zone shows up. Madamme is protective over Adora.

    Anyways...has anyone invented their own ideas about how Kowl and Razz might have found out? I figure Razz would have clued in early on and just kept her mouth shut (remember how automatically she welcomed Adora?), but Kowl...that could have gone any number of ways.

    He-man/Adam, Man-at-Arms, the Sorceress and I think also Orko knows about Adora's secret.

    Didn't we make a list at some point? It's crazy long....all these people know the secret:

    Razz, Broom, Kowl, Lighthope, Sorceress, Spirit, Cringer, Loo-Kee, Man-At-Arms, Orko...and of course Adora and Adam themselves.

    So Ten people in total, I think, unless I'm forgetting someone.

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    Heroic Warrior Cosmic Falcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mer-Man's Minion View Post
    I prefer the mystery that we don't really know how Madame Razz, Kowl, and the others know She-Ra is Adora's alter ego. The beginning intro says "among them are Light Hope, Madame Razz, Kowl" which indicates to me there are others who know of the connection also that we're just not told of; at least one, anyway...Broom is one example, he clearly knows Adora's secret.
    Yeah I agree. Besides it was only ever meant to be a kids entertainment cartoon and things aren't always explained in fairytales and such...if the story says it's so then it is and we're not supposed to question why. Questioning only spoils the magic. LooKee also knows. He's always hanging out seeing everything in Etheria you would think he always knew from the start, he might've observed Adora transforming but in the episode Lookee Lends a Hand he is told the secret by Light Hope. Also Peekablue's powers of mystic vision suggests that she might know too even though she was introduced later on in the series.

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    Heroic Daddy to Hermione! Uki's Avatar
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    Sort of unrelated, but I thought this a good place to ask: What does She-Ra say to transform back into Adora? Do we ever see that? I know HM says, "Let the Power return," but I haven't seen all of POP yet (steadily working through the first set and I need teh second).

    Any help?
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    Heroic Opera Diva sweetbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uki View Post
    Sort of unrelated, but I thought this a good place to ask: What does She-Ra say to transform back into Adora? Do we ever see that? I know HM says, "Let the Power return," but I haven't seen all of POP yet (steadily working through the first set and I need teh second).

    Any help?
    We never see her turn back into Adora... or at least not purposely, no special words or anything. And with the HM quote... is that from New Adventures? Cause I don't recall anything like that in the Classic...

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    Heroic Warrior neno's Avatar
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    It was in the MOTU episode Problem with Power.

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    Sorcerer of Zalesia bcrduke's Avatar
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    I think Granamyr knows too... I think. I mean, it would make sense, since he knows EVERYTHING.

    In the Hidden Symbols Mystery mini-comic, Kowl TOTALLY knows.. he comes yelling for Adora and she transforms right in front of him, and I think the mini-comics were done before the series...

    Madame Razz may have known about it long before Adora ever came to the rebellion... she's REALLY REALLY old, and she may be a prophet of sorts, but because she's so old, she doesn't always remember things? Or maybe she's faking that she's a bumbling silly and she's really pretty powerful?

    I don't know!!! LOL
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    I have always thought of Razz as really powerful, but faked the idiot part so that she wouldn't scare others. Because she faked so much acting and messing up became natural. It was never shown how Razz and Kowl found out so I like to come up with stories. Here's one of them
    It was night time at the rebel camp. Everyone was asleep, well almost everyone. Adora heard someone yelling for help. Adora with Spirit go yo investagate. Razz had done a spell said the wrong word and now the bridge she is standing is collapsing. The cries for help were coming from Razz and Kowl. Adora needed Swift Wind to rescue Razz so Adora had to change in front of them. After the rescue Razz thanked She-Ra but was confused accidently addressed She-Ra as Adora. She-Ra changed back to Adora. Razz was amazed and Adora made them promise not to tell.

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    Squirrel that can type Lewd_Squirrel's Avatar
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    well, considering how she changes from Adora, to She-Ra, right infront of Razz & Broom, in "King Miro's Journey" I'd say Broom knows.
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    ***ern Antiquarian Mosquitor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyBoy View Post

    Didn't we make a list at some point? It's crazy long....all these people know the secret:

    Razz, Broom, Kowl, Lighthope, Sorceress, Spirit, Cringer, Loo-Kee, Man-At-Arms, Orko...and of course Adora and Adam themselves.

    So Ten people in total, I think, unless I'm forgetting someone.
    And Zodac.

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    Squirrel that can type Lewd_Squirrel's Avatar
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    I don't know why, but sometimes I think Bow knows.
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    Gimme Granita! Scorpia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    Madame Razz may have known about it long before Adora ever came to the rebellion... she's REALLY REALLY old, and she may be a prophet of sorts, but because she's so old, she doesn't always remember things? Or maybe she's faking that she's a bumbling silly and she's really pretty powerful?
    bcrduke - I love the idea of Madame knowing about Adora's destiny prior to her joining the Rebellion. Almost as if she knows it has to happen but can't disclose to anyone for fear of getting their hopes up - or more importantly risking Hordak finding out about her importance.

    This could also explain why she was so welcoming to Adora when she broke Shadow Weaver's spell...

    Honestly, we need Madame Razz in MOTUC - she's crucial!
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    Watcher of the Multiverse Jon-O's Avatar
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    Based on when She-Ra went back in time, I'd agree, Granamyr knows. He seemed to know about her family and they hadn't even been born yet.

    I always imagined there to be a hidden scene in SOTS where Queen Marlena takes Adora aside before she leaves and tells her she knows Adam is He-Man, so Adora has to be She-Ra, and she couldn't be prouder of them. Teela would have come back from Snake Mountain complaining about some new warrior woman--that would have been all the proof Marlena needed!
    I love an all inclusive canon!

  22. #22
    Searchin' My Soul DisneyBoy's Avatar
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    We never see her turn back into Adora...
    I believe in the episode "The Sea-Hawk", She-Ra and Swift Wind step behind a bush and there's a big blast of light. Then Adora and Spirit come out. We don't get to hear if there's an incantation, though.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    Madame Razz may have known about it long before Adora ever came to the rebellion... she's REALLY REALLY old, and she may be a prophet of sorts
    That's a really cool idea. I like that. It makes sense that wizened old Madame Razz would have some prophetic powers which enabled her to foresee the coming of a Horde member who would turn out to be the destined savior of Etheria..

    ~Penny~

  24. #24
    Court Magician Edmond Dantes's Avatar
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    My personal theory is that everyone in the Rebellion (or at least the named characters) know Adora's secret. Just that Razz and Kowl are the only ones who Adora knows know.

  25. #25
    Melaktha For MotUC!! adol's Avatar
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    What about Cringer/Battle Cat? Do they know?
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