What does you consider Classic Material?

[Neo]

Actually, the line was announced in 2000/2001. I have a Tomarts right here with the finished prototypes.

The only thing that I don´t understand is why Mattel is not releasing news about NA toys because they have the same percentage of votes that 200X stuff.

Uhm... This thread is about what people concider classic and not what we think should be in the classics line. You've just said so yourself.... So these percentages don't really tell you anything about that....*

[Ulisses31]

Uhm... This thread is about what people concider classic and not what we think should be in the classics line. You've just said so yourself.... So these percentages don't really tell you anything about that....*

That is right... and this are so few votes that they don´t even count in the h.org universe. 51 is only 1% of 5000 users.

[Neo]

Things don't have to be old or be classic to be in this line man.

I say bring on NA although I don't concider it to be classic.

[Ulisses31]

Things don't have to be old or be classic to be in this line man.

True... my problem is not with that, is with the label Classic in something that is a mix of old and new.

Actually, the line was announced in 2000/2001. I have a Tomarts right here with the finished prototypes.

Can you upload some scans? It must be something that deserve to be seen.

So you consider Original MOTU from ´82 , ´81 or ´80?

I say bring on NA although I don't concider it to be classic.

Do you consider 200X new characters Classic?

[Neo]

True... my problem is not with that, is with the label Classic in something that is a mix of old and new.

It's a common thing. Even Disney does it everytime they release a new movie.

Can you upload some scans? It must be something that deserve to be seen.

I am pretty sure that is against the rules. Besides, I don't have a scanner. I'll see if I can take a picture though.

So you consider Original MOTU from ´82 , ´81 or ´80?

I concider filmation and everything that came before that classic in the true sence of the word classic.

Do you consider 200X new characters Classic?

Classic in the way that Disney uses the word classic. ;-)

IMO the 200x characters are even more important to th mythos then everything that came before.

[Ulisses31]

I concider filmation and everything that came before that classic in the true sence of the word classic.

O.K. but I was asking if like 2002 MOTU you consider from 2000 and you say that it have 9 years, Original MOTU you start to count its age from what year? 80, or 81?


It was in the shelf to sale only in 1981 but the prototypes are from 1980... but the toys have 1981 in the back, what is the year in the back of a 200X toy? To me is that what count to give them their age...

Original MOTU - 1981-2009= 28 years

200X MOTU - 2002-2009= 7 years

But if you think that the prototypes count to get the age, then we have to celebrate the 30th anniversary of Original He-Man, and the 10th anniversary of 200X He-Man next year...

I think that MOTU will only release the 200X He-Man variant only in it´s 10th anniversary when, has Megagearmax once said... then it will have a decade and can be addressed as a Classic

Classic in the way that Disney uses the word classic.

Now I see your point, Marketing way of selling new stuff, as if it have been part of all your life... don´t agree but I understand and respect.

IMO the 200x characters are even more important to th mythos then everything that came before.

Here is were our different IMO don´t agree

[MegaGearMax]

The only thing that I don´t understand is why Mattel is not releasing news about NA toys because they have the same percentage of votes that 200X stuff.

Well, Mattel has to be super careful about anything they do with NA. It's the black sheep of MOTU, even though it's Classic.

We had a big poll on the .org not too long ago that tried to measure where the different eras ranked with fans. The original MOTU is first, 200X second, POP a really close third and NA way last.

[Ulisses31]

We had a big poll on the .org not too long ago that tried to measure where the different eras ranked with fans. The original MOTU is first, 200X second, POP a really close third and NA way last.

I will look for it, because I think it is a non multi choice poll, when you have to choose only one... is very different than when you can vote in everything you like.

When people have to choose between eras, we get Original MOTU 1st 200X 2nd and then everything else, but if you can vote in every era you like you will get Original MOTU 1st and everything else in a draw.

Because... almost everyone vote Original MOTU. But not everyone vote in the other eras and lines.

But when you have to choose your preference, ... well Original MOTU and 200X get more 1st choices than the rest, but that don´t say to you if people like the other eras, even people voting Original MOTU can like 200X but just a little less than the original run, and people who like more 200X can like the original run a little less than 200X.

This is the difference of Multi and non Multi choice poll, in one you get what people like, in the other you get what people like the most when they have to choose only one.

To analyze MOTUC, liking or not the label, if we will get all the eras mixed, we have to start multi choice polls to have accurate results... because if everything is possible to be in MOTUC we should be able to vote in everything.

A non multi choice poll will be only accurate when you have to decide when to release them.

So, IMO - We have almost the same number of 200X fans and NA fans, but when they have to choose their 1st choice, NA fans have other priorities than only NA, when 200X fans keep choosing 200X instead of all the rest.

So IMO - NA is not a 1st choice, but it would have so much buyers like 200X. Only have to be released later or like a bonus.

[Neo]

O.K. but I was asking if like 2002 MOTU you consider from 2000 and you say that it have 9 years, Original MOTU you start to count its age from what year? 80, or 81?

I start counting with 1980 for the original line.

It was in the shelf to sale only in 1981 but the prototypes are from 1980... but the toys have 1981 in the back, what is the year in the back of a 200X toy? To me is that what count to give them their age...

I've checked my He-man, Skeletor and Man at arms and they all have 2001 stamped under their feet.

Original MOTU - 1981-2009= 28 years

200X MOTU - 2002-2009= 7 years

200X MOTU - 2001-2009= 8 years

As for the poll... It was a multi choice poll. You had to give an order of what to you was the most important era of MotU.

[Ulisses31]

As for the poll... It was a multi choice poll. You had to give an order of what to you was the most important era of MotU.

Can you post the link... I can´t find it.

And thanks for the date stamp on feet information. I don´t have any 200X MOTU Toys. Now I think it was a funny that it was 2001-1981= 20 years before the original run .

[Neo]

Can you post the link... I can´t find it.

And thanks for the date stamp on feet information. I don´t have any 200X MOTU Toys. Now I think it was a funny that it was 2001-1981= 20 years before the original run .

No problem... The link was on the main page not so long ago. It was a "official" poll. If you look at the archives it has to be there.

You don't have any 200x toys??!! How can you have such strong feelings against them if you don't even own any?

[Ulisses31]

You don't have any 200x toys??!! How can you have such strong feelings against them if you don't even own any?

I don´t have strong feelings against them. I don´t like the way they are sculpted, they are well made but don´t appeal me, I like the "Classic" look, and that is why I like the MOTUC.

I´m not against the toys per se, I´m against all the changes made in the MOTU characters. I will not enter in details in this thread, but just the main:

I don´t like, in the toys:
- New Sword, and all the new He-Mam look,
- Hunchback position of the toys,
- Too much details in the toys,
- Size and proportions.

What I like:
- Colors
- Castle Grayskull (but I would like it with throne)
- Real resemblance with the Cartoon, (some original MOTU are different of their with Filmation version)
- Seeing He-Man alive again 20 years later.

But I see no reason to buy them.

I see the 200X toys as a revamp, that not make me spent money with it, no new characters to join my old toys, and they are not even in the same size or proportions, they simply don´t fit in my collection, and don´t make me wish to start a new collection.

Now with MYP/MVC media:

What I don´t like:

- Too many changes in He-Man
- Too many "pre-eternia" explanations
- Destruction of the mythos about He-Ro,
- King Grayskull
- Battle Cat
- Castle Grayskull all story
- Less naïve imagination than Filmation

What I like:

- Some characters interactions, like Stratos vs Buzz-off
- Better definition of Eternia Map
- Revelation of Keldor and Randor past as brothers
- Young prince Adam
- Seeing He-Man alive again 20 years later

I´ve enjoined to see the new Cartoon, and love the MVC comics, but I´ve read them like I´ve read the Apocalypse Era in X-Men, a great alternative world story, not the official plot.

In conclusion, my all felling is more aloofness and indifference with the toys, unconformity and discordance with the changes in some story parts, with MYP/MVC media, but I can live with it if they had stayed only inside their realm of alternative/different storyline.

What makes me being against the 200X version of MOTU story (in the bios of MOTUC) is:

- It´s replacing the original story now,
- It´s being labeled as Classic
- It´s destroying all the mythos revealing to much about the characters
- It´s leaving no place for our imagination

People may say that we can have our own mythos anyway and we don´t have to accept the new versions of it.
That is true, if everyone could accept that.

But I see too many people focusing in the new bios as the best and official only version for the MOTU Universe mythos, but we know that there are at least the Pre-Filmation Version in minicomics and other media, the Filmation Version, the 200X version, other medias versions, and now the MOTUC version.

Just because the MOTUC bios are being made from almost all versions and intend to unite them that don´t mean that we have to leave behind all the others.

Is the same with X-Men, the movie have changed dramatically the official X-Men Universe, and even have tried to replace it.

So my main complain against 200X is:

1. don´t name Classic to something that is not (200X on MOTUC)
2. seeing it story version being sold like it is the best one (MOTUC bios)

Not against 200X per se, just against 200X overlap of the original run of MOTU in something named Classic.

Don´t agree with seeing old and new mixed and named Classic, when it is not.

Can this post help to know my true feelings about 200X?

[Neo]

It's just a name... Classics is the name of the line, they aren't going to change it and they won't change the relevance of the 200x mythos just because you don't like it.

I really can't agree with you on any level regarding motu, since the parts you like about it are the parts I dislike most and vice versa.

I love the way the 200x motu cleaned up the whole look and feel and took away a lot of the campyness. I also like the explanations they gave us about Grayskull and all the races in Eternia. I loved a lot of the backstories that we didn't have before. Take Stinkor for example. Filmation didn't know what to do with a stinky character so they didn't touch that one. They knew the toon was goofy enough as it was. But MYP crated a world that was serious enough to add a character like Stinkor and even give him a kick ass origin.

I feel sorry that you are this closeminded about change and new stuff. You really missout on a lot this way. Also I think it's wrong to do this much "campaigning" against 200x. I haven't seen you do it on POP or NA btw. What are your feelings regarding those?

Why can't people just be happy for eachother when they get what they want? You don't like 200x? Well, that's good, be happy for the people that do like it and don't get the 200x Zodak or King Grayskull.

There is no need for conflict if people learn not to be too selfish.

If there is anything else on this matter we should take it to PM imo.

[Ulisses31]

If there is anything else on this matter we should take it to PM imo.

Why? Do you want to keep labeling me, trough PM, because you can´t handle with someone with different opinion?


I don´t like this kind of tone when someone address to me:

And seriously people... Why can't we all just cool down a bit and not be selfish.[...] Get over it allready.

[...] you are this closeminded [...]I think it's wrong to do this much "campaigning" against 200x [..] (that I´m not doing) [...]not to be too selfish.[...

Have I done that to you? Why does you get so personal when we speak about Vintage vs 200X? I don´t understand...?

We were having a great debate in the posts before your last post... i was even learning new stuff with you, what made you turn aggressive?

You are not reading my opinion to understand me, you are reading it to get weapons to just trow at me... this is not a fight...

It's just a name... Classics is the name of the line, they aren't going to change it and they won't change the relevance of the 200x mythos just because you don't like it.

O.K. I know it, but I don´t have the right to have and give and discuss my opinion?

I really can't agree with you on any level regarding motu, since the parts you like about it are the parts I dislike most and vice versa.

And I can respect that, can you respect me and my opinion? I think you can´t.

I feel sorry that you are this closeminded about change and new stuff. You really missout on a lot this way.

No need for that if you could just respect and be happy with the idea of someone with his own ideas... like you want to teach me to be with this part of your post:

Why can't people just be happy for eachother when they get what they want? You don't like 200x? Well, that's good, be happy for the people that do like it and don't get the 200x Zodak or King Grayskull.

I can rewrite that to my IMO:

Why can't people just be happy for each-other when they have different opinions? You like 200x being labeled Classic and in Classic bios? Well, that's good, be happy for the people that don´t like it and try to treat and understand them like you want to be understood and treated .

Also I think it's wrong to do this much "campaigning" against 200x.

Not against 200X, you have read my posts? Against MOTUC being labeled as "Classic"!!!!!

I haven't seen you do it on POP or NA btw. What are your feelings regarding those?

Because they are not just a rewrite revamp/variations of original MOTU done only 8 years ago... they are the ongoing story of the original run, not a new story about it.

There is no need for conflict if people learn not to be too selfish.

And because no POP or NA fan have ever addressed me like all the 200X gang does every time someone express his IMO/opinion, see your posts to understand what I´m saying:

You was insulting, aggressive and you have even stuck in the meddle of Megagearmax and my dialog about our different IMO, to take a side on a fight... that was not being fight.

Try to get out of your closed box were only who agree with you can be... there is more people outside than inside it, they don´t need you to be alive, but we all need each other to be a MOTU community...

I see your opinion about me like this:

- He don´t like 200X
- He don´t like Classic tag on MOTUC
- He don´t want 200X on MOTUC!!!!

I´m trying to say this to you:

- I´m indifferent about 200X
- I don´t like Classic tag on MOTU
- I´m indifferent about 200X mixing with other eras (MOTUC) just don´t name it Classic...

To me, the error in naming MOTUC Classic is the same error made when you label butter "Light"... can have less 30% of grease but is not, and will never be, - light - ...

But 200X will be classic material in just some years, when a new cartoon or movie get to be done I think that 200X will have the right to be addressed like classic.


I think all this confusion is because we have only two different insights about the original run of MOTU.

• Filmation
• and MYP.

When we get more official new insights, versions and variations (Like Transformers and TMNT have) vintage vs 200X will over because we will have more.

Perhaps I will be in love for a new version then, I´m not against new, just I don´t like the 200X version more than Original Run.

In TMNT cartoons I like more the 2003 TMNT version than the 1987 - 1996 one, and I hate the Next Mutation version.

I don´t want, to keep trying to explain, more my opinions to who can´t read it with open mind, so if you want you can PM me or open a thread were we can continue this, and just stop insulting me.

I will not address this "vintage vs 200X" matter in here again, I just want to know:


What does the users consider Classic Material?

[Coptur]

I 'm with Neo all the way I loved the serious nature behind 200x he-man. I not interested in buying the 'classics' toys I’m love reading the bios on the back because I like the fact that they're cleaning up the MOTU universe for too long have people ask the same question now with 'classics' we're finally getting one definitive storyline encompassing all MOTU (old, 200x, pop & NA).

We already know a NA character is due for 2010. I hope its Flogg and I also hope he isn't from the future and would like it if he and the Denebian race were the reason behind Queen Marlena leaving Earth.

I see MOTUC as a celebration of all MOTU.

[Ulisses31]

I 'm with Neo all the way

Are you people serious when you choose to take sides? This is not a fight!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for your opinion Coptur... please take time to read all the posts.

Some of them have been edited for better comprehension.

[Neo]

Why? Do you want to keep labeling me, trough PM, because you can´t handle with someone with different opinion?

Why shouldn't I be able to handle someone with different views? I invited you to a PM because I thought we were way off topic and I don't want the mods to get angry with us.

I don´t like this kind of tone when someone address to me:

Have I done that to you? Why does you get so personal when we speak about Vintage vs 200X? I don´t understand...?

I am sorry if I offended you in any way. It wasn't my intention and reading back I don't think my posts were hostile in any way.

The reason I get "personal"is because this is not the first time we clash on the whole 80's vs 200x topic. To me there isn't even a 80's vs 200x issue since it is all MotU. It's the same story in essence.
You on the other hand have stated before that you love debates and I feel like you are constantly opening threads that envoke these kinds of discussions on purpose.

This thread is a prime example. You ask a question when you know what the obvious answer is. "What do you concider Classic material"...
You know very well that stuff that's not even 10 years old can't be considered classic. Then later you go own by saying that Mattel could take something away from this poll regarding that NA should be in the Classics line or not because not a lot of people considered it to be classic material. By saying that you are at the same time telling everyone 200x has no right to be in the classics line. It's a bit manipulative imo.

We were having a great debate in the posts before your last post... i was even learning new stuff with you, what made you turn aggressive?

I didn't intend my posts to be agressive.. You have my word on that. Blame it on the language and cultural barriers.

You are not reading my opinion to understand me, you are reading it to get weapons to just trow at me... this is not a fight...

Oh, I understand perfectly.. And I know it's not a fight, it's a debate.

O.K. I know it, but I don´t have the right to have and give and discuss my opinion?

Sure you do...

And I can respect that, can you respect me and my opinion? I think you can´t.

Oh, I think I can.

Why can't people just be happy for each-other when they have different opinions? You like 200x being labeled Classic and in Classic bios? Well, that's good, be happy for the people that don´t like it and try to treat and understand them like you want to be understood and treated .

But I am happy for the people who love the vintage era. But do you hear me complaining about the inclusion of vintage parts in the storyline? Or do you hear me say "out with the vintage, I want this line to be 200x only!"? All I want is the same understanding in return. That isn't too much to ask imo.

Not against 200X, you have read my posts? Against MOTUC being labeled as "Classic"!!!!!

Yup, I have read your posts, and in the later ones you indeed said that was the problem.. I didn't got that from your initial post. Perhaps the initial post of this poll wasn't clear enough.

You was insulting, aggressive and you have even stuck in the meddle of Megagearmax and my dialog about our different IMO, to take a side on a fight... that was not being fight.

It is an open debate for everyone to join in. I did nothing wrong, except taking the thread a bit off topic.

Again, I didn't think I was insulting or agressive. My apologies if it came across like that.

Try to get out of your closed box were only who agree with you can be... there is more people outside than inside it, they don´t need you to be alive, but we all need each other to be a MOTU community...

I don't need everyone to agree with me. I just ask for people to be understanding to eachother. I have had a couple of these differences with a forum member which I also know in real life. And we can totally see eachothers point. Uhm... yeah.. you know what I mean.

I see your opinion about me like this:

- He don´t like 200X
- He don´t like Classic tag on MOTUC
- He don´t want 200X on MOTUC!!!!

Yup, because you have said so before. You have even opened a 200x vs vintage group.

I´m trying to say this to you:

- I´m indifferent about 200X
- I don´t like Classic tag on MOTU
- I´m indifferent about 200X mixing with other eras (MOTUC) just don´t name it Classic...

Yeah but it is called Classics.. What would you rather have Mattel do at this point then? Change the Classics name, or only include vintage stuff in it?

But 200X will be classic material in just some years, when a new cartoon or movie get to be done I think that 200X will have the right to be addressed like classic.

As I said, when you opened this poll you allready knew what was classic and what was not.

Perhaps I will be in love for a new version then, I´m not against new, just I don´t like the 200X version more than Original Run.

And that is cool, I have absolutely no problem with that. I even understand. The 80's stuff is what got most of us into MotU and we all have fond memories of that.

In TMNT cartoons I like more the 2003 TMNT version than the 1987 - 1996 one, and I hate the Next Mutation version.

The next Mutation was pretty bad indeed. The 2003 TMNT series ruled. Any word on a second TMNT btw?

[MegaGearMax]

Uli...Despite my natural inclinations toward 200X, it DID enhance the benchmark that Filmation started, by giving backstory to lots of characters that Filmation ignored. Since we can't use Filmation in MOTUC, there is only 200X and the mini-comics (which are hard enough to use because several characters where so different from the way Filmation presented them as) to use as canon.

Without 200X, what history or mythos does MOTUC have? The dozen mini-comics are good for the first 12 or 13 characters, but beyond that...

[Coptur]

I agree with both parts of the debate but i do side with the 'newer' mythos but i would never want the old to be forgotten. ie if i could get the look of the 200x Clawful and put the mind of the 80's one in him that to me would be the perfect amalgamation of that character as never been a fan of stupid villians which is why i find it hard to enjoy the filmation cartoon these days.

Being a fan of transformers we've seen alot of dragstic changes over the years. Instead of hating them i've learnt to embrace them because even with all the new incarnations of Optimus Prime they've all given a nod in some form to what came first. whether is was a look, a quote or something only a geek like me would see lol.

[Ulisses31]

I invited you to a PM because I thought we were way off topic and I don't want the mods to get angry with us.

Now I see, thanks.

I didn't intend my posts to be agressive.. You have my word on that. Blame it on the language and cultural barriers.

O.K. I will forget that, thanks.

Oh, I understand perfectly.. And I know it's not a fight, it's a debate.

O.K.

Yup, because you have said so before. You have even opened a 200x vs vintage group.

Read below.

Yeah but it is called Classics.. What would you rather have Mattel do at this point then? Change the Classics name, or only include vintage stuff in it?

Change it.

As I said, when you opened this poll you allready knew what was classic and what was not.

Just want others opinion too.

Yes indeed I have open it.

Vintage VS 200X
Group Maintained by radrcks

To discuss all around this two lines of MOTU story, speak about toys, comics, cartoons and other media.

Started to be a place were we could debate our opinion toward our different views about our likes and dislikes.

It started to be Vintage vs 200X allowed , because the Mods were really after us every time we started a debate, they erased all our opinions and I just thought that we deserved at least a place to have our "vs" debates around the two lines, a place were it was allowed.

You are right with my earlier 200X out of MOTUC opinion, I was really against 200X on MOTUC when I reached here.

But before some debates with Megagearmax and Capitalzero I started to understand that the Classic tag was what made our great differences, I thought, "If Mattel don´t name that 200X newbies as Classic, they can be in the same line with the Real Classic Material or even get their own sub-line".

That was my intention in this thread:

Name Ultimate to the 200X sub-line in MOTU Classics Support Thread

Then some time later, Toyguru put an end in the debate about what would be eligible and expectable about 200X in MOTUC.

I started to think in this question, and all this time, since my first appearance in this forum, and today, my all MOTUC opinion was evolving. And my English too.

Was not the inclusion of 200X on the new toyline named MOTUC what was disturbing me, was seeing new stuff being addressed as Classic.

To me, because of my logical and mathematical training, the accuracy needed to make the choice of a term to describe a concept is very important.

Naming "Classic" something that is not... is an abomination to me.

Is like saying that butter can be "light"...

http://www.practicallyedible.com/edible.nsf/pages/lightbutter



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_food

Now I have a different opinion, different from my first opinion and my first posts, I think that now I know more about MOTU, and with a better English (but still needing some help) now I can better define and describe my feelings about it.

So, again, this is my opinion now:

- I´m indifferent about 200X
- I don´t like Classic tag on MOTU
- I´m indifferent about 200X mixing with other eras (MOTUC) just don´t name it Classic... change it.

I know that it is not possible to change that name, but is my opinion. My IMO.

[kelddorr]

i say 80's motu pop and na are all classics,i remeber he-man and slushhead,to me those are classic,their the only ones i had and they came together in a 2 pack,i was 10 or 11,im 29 now so they was classic for me

[PaoloKr]

I would say 80's MOTU toys, minicomics and Filmation Cartoon.
Also POP line and NA can be classified like classic material.

[Evil_Horde]

For me only all material 80's is classic!

[Count Marzo]

1982 - 1987 = Anything classic.

Maybe even a little bit into 1988 as well so we can count Tytus and Megator.

[baronterror]

dont count knock offs because it isnt motu and dont count 200x stuff as classic because it is too new to be classic. not uninportant as it is very important. just not classic.

prototype stuff is in as is other published official material