View Poll Results: What made you dislike the 200X MOTU?

Voters
100. You may not vote on this poll
  • New Power Sword

    58 58.00%
  • King Grayskull story

    20 20.00%
  • Young Adam

    17 17.00%
  • Non-talking Cringer

    37 37.00%
  • New look of some characters (Sorceress, Fisto, Zodak, etc)

    34 34.00%
  • The Toys

    35 35.00%
  • The Cartoon

    25 25.00%
  • The Comics

    11 11.00%
  • The all story (in Comics and Cartoon)

    10 10.00%
  • Other Reason (please explain)

    30 30.00%
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Thread: What made you dislike the 200X MOTU?

  1. #26
    Heroic Warrior
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    The only thing I liked about 200X was the comics. The whole execution of the cartoon was awful. I liked some of the character redesigns, but the persona changes weren't needed. The case ratios were pathetic.

  2. #27
    Heroic Warrior Grimbot's Avatar
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    I don't dislike 200x MOTU.
    Though here's the stuff that I dislike about it:
    -New power sword. Freaking techno-butcher knife.
    -Mute Cringer/Battlecat. It's a green tiger from an alien world, come on! Plus he talked even in the DC era.
    -The dull background paintings.
    -The dull looking castle Grayskull.
    -The dull looking Eternos.
    -The dull looking Snake mountain.
    -Clawfull's new personality.
    -Hordak being trapped in another dimension and portrayed like a Darkseid knockoff.
    -Marlena not being from Earth. She being on Earth doesn't mean that the main cast should visit Earth.
    -Lack of portals.
    -Generic mostly forgettable music.
    -Anime influence.
    -CGI scene change animation.
    -Horrible colors. (no, not the color schemes, the muddy shadows)
    -New looks of Sorceress, King Hiss and Mer-Man.
    -Transformation sequence.
    -Second season being titled "MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE vs THE SNAKE MEN" + narrator reading it.

    Aaand that's about it. Story's 99% perfect.
    Last edited by Grimbot; December 29, 2010 at 06:59pm.
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  3. #28
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    The anime influence made me dislike the 2002 era.
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  4. #29
    Heroic Warrior hauke's Avatar
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    MOTU Classics.
    I really liked 200X unitl I saw the first picture of the classics He-Man prototype. All of a sudden I realized that this was the MOTU relaunch I always wanted and 200X wasn't that great. The MOTU Classics verisons of figures like Man At Arms or Triklops let me realize how weird the proportions of most of the 200X figures are and that all the techno extra detail they put on those figures made them much too busy and in some cases weird looking.
    I am not a hater though. I still like the overall storyline and some of the monster redesigns like clawful and whiplash still look excellent.
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  5. #30
    Heroic Warrior kup's Avatar
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    I am a big fan of 200X MOTU but there are a few things that I see as major flaws:

    - The first season has too much 80s style episodes in which Skeletor and his goons thinks up some crazy plan which the masters eventually defeat.

    - Prince Adam can come off as too much of a brat, I don't mind that he is young but his attitude can be a bit annoying although no where as bad as several contemporary 'young' male haracters.

    - It ended as it was getting really awesome!

    - The toy line has too many variations of He-Man and Skeletor and not much of anything else.

  6. #31
    Heroic Warrior Blue's Avatar
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    Mainly the TV show didn't flesh out the characters very well, so poor writing. Character development for Adam was sidelined in the origin story in favor of over-zealous action sequences.

    This continued throughout the series. I believe it was in Rise of the Snakemen I where we see characters get knocked out, only to be revived and fighting someone else a clip or two later. The show had some nice action, but it should not have been the focus of the series, and some of the battles lasted far too long.

    Not only that, but I never believed the Mystic Wall could really hold Skeletor. It felt like something a 5 year old would invent--not original at all--, and made little sense in a world of Wind Raiders and flying animals of all sorts.

    The same happened with the Power of Grayskull. Now it was a crystal orb. I've never seen a magic crystal in a fantasy series before.

    Except for a few scattered moments, He-man didn't stand out in the series. The other Masters didn't rely on him very much; I was vexed when a few measly vines were able to submit him for half of the Man-E-Faces ep. The King Grayskull origin only served to cut the knees out of what made He-Man cool to begin with.

    The character relations felt weak in places where the Filmation relationships were strong. This is particularly true of the mentor relationship between He-Man and the Sorceress. The Sorceress, while still an agent for good, didn't allow any character to see her, and I hated the unoriginal way her powers were used in the series--how many stupid force field does she need to make? That spell got old fast.

    Oddly enough, Evil-Lyn was portrayed as uber-powerful--too powerful if you ask me. Again, this seemed to accent the series focus on special effects. There was so reason to give Evil-Lyn the ability to create huge craters, except for the shock value. How could Teela be the arch-enemy of someone so powerful? Was was a woman with that much power so eager to work for someone else?

    Gotta say, I also HATED He-Man's generic voice, and it took a LONG time to get used to Skeletor's voice as well.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    Where is the Nothing option?
    I'm with Dr. Kain on this, I loved 200X!

  8. #33
    Heroic Warrior Grimbot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Mainly the TV show didn't flesh out the characters very well, so poor writing. Character development for Adam was sidelined in the origin story in favor of over-zealous action sequences.

    This continued throughout the series. I believe it was in Rise of the Snakemen I where we see characters get knocked out, only to be revived and fighting someone else a clip or two later. The show had some nice action, but it should not have been the focus of the series, and some of the battles lasted far too long.

    Not only that, but I never believed the Mystic Wall could really hold Skeletor. It felt like something a 5 year old would invent--not original at all--, and made little sense in a world of Wind Raiders and flying animals of all sorts.

    The same happened with the Power of Grayskull. Now it was a crystal orb. I've never seen a magic crystal in a fantasy series before.

    Except for a few scattered moments, He-man didn't stand out in the series. The other Masters didn't rely on him very much; I was vexed when a few measly vines were able to submit him for half of the Man-E-Faces ep. The King Grayskull origin only served to cut the knees out of what made He-Man cool to begin with.

    The character relations felt weak in places where the Filmation relationships were strong. This is particularly true of the mentor relationship between He-Man and the Sorceress. The Sorceress, while still an agent for good, didn't allow any character to see her, and I hated the unoriginal way her powers were used in the series--how many stupid force field does she need to make? That spell got old fast.

    Oddly enough, Evil-Lyn was portrayed as uber-powerful--too powerful if you ask me. Again, this seemed to accent the series focus on special effects. There was so reason to give Evil-Lyn the ability to create huge craters, except for the shock value. How could Teela be the arch-enemy of someone so powerful? Was was a woman with that much power so eager to work for someone else?

    Gotta say, I also HATED He-Man's generic voice, and it took a LONG time to get used to Skeletor's voice as well.
    Oh, yeah, the Mystic wall. I don't like that either. Nor the idea of light side and dark side of Eternia (yeah, it originated from Filmation era, still don't like it).
    Brings doom to MOTUC with cel accuracy.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlyVenom View Post
    I'm with Dr. Kain on this, I loved 200X!
    I'm with you guys.
    200X drew me back in as a fan. I loved MOTU as a child but lost touch with till the MYP started, if not for it.....I don't think I would have the interest in MOTU I have today.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbot View Post
    Oh, yeah, the Mystic wall. I don't like that either. Nor the idea of light side and dark side of Eternia (yeah, it originated from Filmation era, still don't like it).
    Actually, it was also in the mini comics.

    I really didn't dislike anything about 200x.
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  11. #36
    Skeletors evil colorist Predabot's Avatar
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    All I've got to say is... NUTHIN'!

    I luv'ed just about all.

    It was a new version of MotU, it's own thing. If you've followed DC or Marvel Comics, or any of the toy-brands competing with MotU, like Transformers, then you'd understand why 200x MotU could be loved all on its own.

    Cheers to this one, mates.

  12. #37
    Heroic Warrior marndt8448's Avatar
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    I liked 200X MOTU, but what bothered me was the toys.

    I loved the redesigns (I love the vintage designs too BTW), but I disliked the pre-posed stances of the toys even back then. The worst offender was tri-Klops IMO. Tri-klops' stance made him useless as a toy, he was a McFarlane-esque statue that really only belonged on a shelf. He certainly wasn't going to fit on any vehicle comfortably with those legs. Many other figures suffered from this too.
    That's one of the reasons why I was hoping for MOTUC to be a better blend of vintage & 200X, because I felt cheated out of actual toys from the 200X line, instead of the articulated stactions we got. A good majority of the figures only looked good, or natural, posed one specific way as if they were statues, and any articulation was an afterthought. I think if all the figures had had more standard 'vanilla' poses I would have liked them better as actual toys.
    I'm not knocking the level of artculation they had, because at the time (2001 was the first pics I saw I believe) there was no 30+ POA Marvel Legends to compare them to, but I hated the way they only looked good in one pose...... heck I still haven't found a pose the make 200X Man-E-Faces look good in.

    ....I always wondered if any parents buying 200X for their kids back then also thought of them more as statues than toys once their kids opened the toys out of the packages and the kids tried playing with them, and the parents simply didn't bother buying another one because of that fact.
    Last edited by marndt8448; December 30, 2010 at 07:17pm.

  13. #38
    Master of 3D printing Neo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Not only that, but I never believed the Mystic Wall could really hold Skeletor. It felt like something a 5 year old would invent--not original at all--, and made little sense in a world of Wind Raiders and flying animals of all sorts.
    The Mystic wall didn't originate in the MYP series.. It was there in the classic continuity aswell.
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  14. #39
    Heroic Warrior kup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Predabot View Post
    All I've got to say is... NUTHIN'!

    I luv'ed just about all.

    It was a new version of MotU, it's own thing. If you've followed DC or Marvel Comics, or any of the toy-brands competing with MotU, like Transformers, then you'd understand why 200x MotU could be loved all on its own.

    Cheers to this one, mates.
    If Hasbro was in charge of MOTU they would have likely made all the Master characters as kids with He-Man as the father figure. Or worse, the Masters would take second place to a whole bunch of annoying 'new characters' kids.

    Transformers hasn't really had a decent cartoon since Beast Wars

  15. #40
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    I dont think anything was wrong with this series. I just missed the show because of the time slots and had to watch else where and not cartoonnetwork because of it. I think I didnt have that much of an anime influence and think the show was great. the power sword is too techno but I dont think the classic sword would fit. The toy distrubution was horrible and if the time slot and toy distrubution was better the line would've lasted longer.. I think those are the only factors that made it fail.

  16. #41
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    I don't collect toys or comics. I cared only about the cartoon.

    Not long ago I made an aborted attempt to critique every episode, which wound up falling apart just because I lost interest. The cartoon is one of those you watch the first time to see where its going, but once you've done that there just is not a reason to put yourself through that again.

    I take great offense at those who compare 200X to anime, because I've seen a lot of anime in my time and most of them are far better thant 200X, especially when it comes to the battles. I'll admit, though, that that's my first problem with 200X: The battles were dull. They consisted largely of people getting thrown into walls or firing boring laser beams ineffectually for ten minutes, and then one side or the other would simply retreat.

    Yes, the original show had very mild violence, but for all that its battles were pretty entertaining. The characters thought, made plans, used strategy. Just look at how He-Man defeats Skeletor in "Disappearing Act" or how Orko gets past Trap Jaw in "The Region of Ice". To my knowledge, the only battle in 200X that came down to any sort of strategy was in "The Courage of Adam".

    Which actually relates somewhat to my second point: 200X as a cartoon had some awful pacing. Many of the episodes really had no plot to speak of, save for endless fight scenes. They literally had five minutes of content stretched out to thirty minutes. Nowhere is this worse than in "The Beginning," Part 2 of which could've been almost completely excised and you would've lost nothing important. For a better example, compare the sheer amount of things that happen in "Disappearing Act" to those of the thematically similar "The Courage of Adam."

    Third point, the characters were somehow less three-dimensional and humanized in 200X than in 1983. I'm thinking especially of Teela, who went from being a warm but strict captain of the guard who takes her duties seriously but doesn't let them consume her life, to being basically an antagonistic older sister whose sole purpose is to be mean to Adam, but pretty much the entire cast suffered, being subjected to a process TV Tropes calls "Flanderization"--taking one aspect of the character and making it their entire personality. To be fair, minor characters like Ram-Man or Roboto didn't have particularly deep personalities in the first place, but its a lot easier to tolerate it when these characters show up in only one or two episodes versus being regular cast members.

    Fourthly, the continuity. While I understand the appeal of adding continuity, they tried to do so while maintaining the "everything goes back to the way it was" styling of the original, so we had ridiculous notions like Skeletor allowing Evil-Lyn to keep working for him even though she tried to kill him. This also is another reason all the fighting was boring--you knew that no permanent harm would come of it. Compare that to, for example, Dragon Ball Z, which had much longer fight scenes but, in addition to being more interesting and better written, were also part of a plot that was actually going to go somewhere. Cell wasn't just going to come back the next day as if nothing had happened, but this is precisely Skeletor's routine.

    I actually have a few other issues with the continuity as well. It caused the writers to fall victim to the temptation of "leave plot points open for future episodes," which contributed to the relative emptiness of each story, because they're arbitrarily putting limits on what they can do with their plot. A good episode of the 1983 cartoon usually had several different things going on at once, while the 200X episodes usually stuck with a single theme.

    It also caused them to fall victim to the temptation of wanting to tie everything together, which led to a season one finale where every dumb thing that had been brought up so far in the series was suddenly resurfacing, even for the flimsiest justification. Particularly when Skeletor's master plan involved dumping his loyal and familiar henchmen in favor of a bunch of boring one-shots that nobody cared about. That entire plotline came off as contrived, in all honesty.

    Speaking of one-shots that nobody cared about, problem number five for me is... the Snake Men. I just hated them, and I don't see why an entire season had to revolve around them. They were boring, they had nothing to set them apart, to make them stand out. Skeletor and his crew were at least somewhat entertaining, and I wanted more of them.

    Problem number six is the fanservice. 200x seemed to be written in the mindset of "everyone watching this is already a fan." Proof of this: absolutely NO episode in the series explains that Keldor is Randor's brother--he's just some blue guy who becomes Skeletor. Its like the writers thought you would already know who Keldor is and they don't need to explain it. Even worse, though, is how a lot of episodes have references to, scenes from or even entire plotlines brazenly lifted from the 1983 series. And of course, there's the foreshadowing of Hordak (which, upon reflection, I'm glad that story arc never happened).

    I hate this sort of pandering-to-the-fans. It's not entertaining, its not a good way to write. At best it is naive, at worst it is creative bankruptcy that is disingenuously passing itself off as an homage--a disguise that becomes more and more flimsy when just about every episode has an "homage."

    Number seven (and this is the last one, I promise!) is this: Now, the 1983 series gets flack for being a "toy commercial." We can argue the merits of that case some other time, but the honest truth is that the 200x was a far more blatant case of product-placement than the 1983 series ever was. As Mattel's critics have pointed out, Mattel liked to push new variants of He-Man and Skeletor, and it seems like every one of those variants was featured in the cartoon at some point. Battle Armor He-Man and Skeletor? Made it. Samurai Warrior He-Man and Skeletor? Made it. Snake Armor He-Man? Yep, he's there too, and with probably the flimsiest justification ever.

    There are so many things I could complain about, but I promised that would be the last point. I do, however, want to say one thing in favor of the 200X series: The background art was beautiful. If nothing else, they really captured the look and feel of a mystical fantasy world. I only wish that they had done that while keeping in the elements that made the 1983 series fun, instead of going for a darker, more serious route.
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  17. #42
    Heroic Warrior Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmond Dantes View Post
    I don't collect toys or comics. I cared only about the cartoon.

    Not long ago I made an aborted attempt to critique every episode, which wound up falling apart just because I lost interest. The cartoon is one of those you watch the first time to see where its going, but once you've done that there just is not a reason to put yourself through that again.

    I take great offense at those who compare 200X to anime, because I've seen a lot of anime in my time and most of them are far better thant 200X, especially when it comes to the battles. I'll admit, though, that that's my first problem with 200X: The battles were dull. They consisted largely of people getting thrown into walls or firing boring laser beams ineffectually for ten minutes, and then one side or the other would simply retreat.

    Yes, the original show had very mild violence, but for all that its battles were pretty entertaining. The characters thought, made plans, used strategy. Just look at how He-Man defeats Skeletor in "Disappearing Act" or how Orko gets past Trap Jaw in "The Region of Ice". To my knowledge, the only battle in 200X that came down to any sort of strategy was in "The Courage of Adam".

    Which actually relates somewhat to my second point: 200X as a cartoon had some awful pacing. Many of the episodes really had no plot to speak of, save for endless fight scenes. They literally had five minutes of content stretched out to thirty minutes. Nowhere is this worse than in "The Beginning," Part 2 of which could've been almost completely excised and you would've lost nothing important. For a better example, compare the sheer amount of things that happen in "Disappearing Act" to those of the thematically similar "The Courage of Adam."

    Third point, the characters were somehow less three-dimensional and humanized in 200X than in 1983. I'm thinking especially of Teela, who went from being a warm but strict captain of the guard who takes her duties seriously but doesn't let them consume her life, to being basically an antagonistic older sister whose sole purpose is to be mean to Adam, but pretty much the entire cast suffered, being subjected to a process TV Tropes calls "Flanderization"--taking one aspect of the character and making it their entire personality. To be fair, minor characters like Ram-Man or Roboto didn't have particularly deep personalities in the first place, but its a lot easier to tolerate it when these characters show up in only one or two episodes versus being regular cast members.

    Fourthly, the continuity. While I understand the appeal of adding continuity, they tried to do so while maintaining the "everything goes back to the way it was" styling of the original, so we had ridiculous notions like Skeletor allowing Evil-Lyn to keep working for him even though she tried to kill him. This also is another reason all the fighting was boring--you knew that no permanent harm would come of it. Compare that to, for example, Dragon Ball Z, which had much longer fight scenes but, in addition to being more interesting and better written, were also part of a plot that was actually going to go somewhere. Cell wasn't just going to come back the next day as if nothing had happened, but this is precisely Skeletor's routine.

    I actually have a few other issues with the continuity as well. It caused the writers to fall victim to the temptation of "leave plot points open for future episodes," which contributed to the relative emptiness of each story, because they're arbitrarily putting limits on what they can do with their plot. A good episode of the 1983 cartoon usually had several different things going on at once, while the 200X episodes usually stuck with a single theme.

    It also caused them to fall victim to the temptation of wanting to tie everything together, which led to a season one finale where every dumb thing that had been brought up so far in the series was suddenly resurfacing, even for the flimsiest justification. Particularly when Skeletor's master plan involved dumping his loyal and familiar henchmen in favor of a bunch of boring one-shots that nobody cared about. That entire plotline came off as contrived, in all honesty.

    Speaking of one-shots that nobody cared about, problem number five for me is... the Snake Men. I just hated them, and I don't see why an entire season had to revolve around them. They were boring, they had nothing to set them apart, to make them stand out. Skeletor and his crew were at least somewhat entertaining, and I wanted more of them.

    Problem number six is the fanservice. 200x seemed to be written in the mindset of "everyone watching this is already a fan." Proof of this: absolutely NO episode in the series explains that Keldor is Randor's brother--he's just some blue guy who becomes Skeletor. Its like the writers thought you would already know who Keldor is and they don't need to explain it. Even worse, though, is how a lot of episodes have references to, scenes from or even entire plotlines brazenly lifted from the 1983 series. And of course, there's the foreshadowing of Hordak (which, upon reflection, I'm glad that story arc never happened).


    There are so many things I could complain about, but I promised that would be the last point. I do, however, want to say one thing in favor of the 200X series: The background art was beautiful. If nothing else, they really captured the look and feel of a mystical fantasy world. I only wish that they had done that while keeping in the elements that made the 1983 series fun, instead of going for a darker, more serious route.

    I agree with everything you said, especially the part about which show was the real toy commercial. Never was it more blatant that in the awful Anwat Gar episode.

    I also never thought about how Skeletor being a family relationship didn't impact any of the stories and was only mentioned in the origin. It's true that they expected the audience to know it, but in the end, what difference did it really make? Zip.
    Last edited by Blue; December 31, 2010 at 09:58am.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    I also never thought about how Skeletor being a family relationship didn't impact any of the stories and was only mentioned in the origin. It's true that they expected the audience to know it, but in the end, what difference did it really make? Zip.
    It would have propably been something that would have payed off later, had they gotten to season 3 or even 4.

    Like in "The Last Stand", where Skeletor mentions to Adam; "it's not nice to take something that belongs to others. But then again.... like father like son."

    Which means so much more, if audience understands that the creators had planned Keldor to be the first-born.

  19. #44
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    The only thing I didn't like about 200X was the fact that it was a ***** to find the toys and that they cancelled it too soon......

  20. #45
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    I agree with a lot of the criticisms listed here, but I still like 200X quite a bit. I still like a lot of the designs (the 200x Trap Jaw is still my favorite single figure from all three eras), but the one thing that I never liked, in almost any capacity...?

    He-Man. I didn't like his new sword, new design, variants (HATED Snake-Armor especially), his portrayal in the cartoon, his voice casting, transformation sequence... any of it! I loved watching all the other characters around him, but he just didn't seem right to me. I don't know if it's just a matter of too much nostalgia to get past (although I don't think so, I'm not usually like that) or if in trying to make him more human and less omnipotent they went too far and he lost something, but I just never liked the character at all.

  21. #46
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    I love all things MOTU, but having to choose, I voted for:

    1) The New Sword - REALLY disliked that style... but I got over it... now because of MOTUC, I dislike it again lol

    2) The New Look of Some Characters -- now, this goes both ways... I loved almost all the re-designs... but I HATED The Sorceress's new look (and the characterization/voice-acting in general). She was just ALL wrong.

    3) The King Grayskull story -- I don't hate this so much now that He-Ro is back in the picture, but I couldn't stand KG alone during the 200X line

    4) Cringer not Talking -- Cringer's opinions and insight were hilarious in the Filmation toon, and they could have been in the MYP toon... they just didn't bother.
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  22. #47
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    The cartoon was the only thing I didn't like, and then, it was only the first season. Season two spiced it up quite a bit, and suddenly the animators figured out how to make an interesting fight scene. The first seasons fights were just....ugh. Horrible. Boring. Nothing actually happened, ya know? It sucks that it ended, though, 'cause it was getting better, like many shows. Sometimes the first season is the worst for a lot of shows, but they get the chance to learn and grow. 200X didn't get that chance...not even when it was obvious that they were growing an changing.
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    Heroic Warrior
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    Aug 2009
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    Des Moines IA
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    I liked the 2k series.

    The thing that really bugged me was Fisto's history and background.

    and

    Zodak

    When Zodak came in the toon and figure I felt robbed and cheated of Zodac. So I have a little animosity toward Zodak. Yes I know it's just a toon and a toy. Do I own Zodak? yes. I have nothing against Zodak or black characters it's just that I wasn't to happy about them replacing Zodac. so when Zodak and Zodac was made seperate characters I was happy and the animosity is slowly dieing.

  24. #49
    Heroic Warrior Ayota's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    279
    Quote Originally Posted by galaxy warrior View Post
    the egyptian / anime look and feel was just not he-man. it didnt hold the same power and strength. it was too trendy...which is never a good venture. you may capitalize on the fad oriented kids and collectors but the line holds no long term power at all. it was a mistake... vintage was a trend setter not a follower. and holds ever lasting appeal.......sorry 200x fans
    Well said!!, I completely agree. I felt that way at the time and I feel that way now.

  25. #50
    Clown Prince of Darkness Benedict Judas Hel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Ninth Level of Hell plotting my slow and painful revenge on the brightly sunlit world...
    Posts
    12,530
    The cartoon...it was just so mind-numbingly boring. Yawnsville.
    "Wheresoever on earth he dwells, man is prey to two weaknesses: the need to pray and the need to love."-Marquis de Sade

    "It is not by reasoning or by our understanding that we have received our religion; it is by external authority and command."-Michel De Montaigne

    Heretical Vintage Purist and Non-Fan Extraordinaire!

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