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Thread: Extra Rooted Head for Female Figures/Women Keep Losing Out in MOTUC

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    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Extra Rooted Head for Female Figures/Women Keep Losing Out in MOTUC

    I would like to bring up the history of the extra rooted hair head issue in MOTUC as well as a couple others for the female figures, as I feel it's extremely important to point out.

    Before anyone gets all upset, this is for an EXTRA head, nobody wants to replace the plastic/rubber haired female heads, and ToyGuru has stated all figures will have plastic hair:

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    3. Do you know if Princess of Power figures in the MOTUC line will have sculpted or rooted hair?
    All the figures in the MOTU Classics line will have sculpted hair.
    Q: Why would someone want a female figure with rooted hair?
    A: The 80's toyline had it which makes it nostalgic to PoP toy fans. They had them in the 80's that way and loved them and would love a throwback/nod to the vintage figures. Just how 80's MOTU fans desperately wanted, fought for and won a flocked and pine-scented Moss Man, Stinking Stinkor, possibly second-release flocked Panthor (see below quote) and more than likely a furry Grizzlor.

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    [I]2. And as for the Panthor, we may indeed release a second flocked version of him in the future, but the initial release will be unflocked as fans at SDCC requested.
    If we can have moss, fuzz, fur, scents and possibly cloth capes (see quote below), why not an extra head of real hair for the girls?

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    9. Jay Bell: Has a decision been made regarding the use of fabric materials on MOTUC figures? We will see capes or clothing (such as Prince Adam's vest) made of cloth? Or will such things always be plastic?

    Much like Scareglow, all the figures will have plastic for a universal feel across the line. A fabric cape would be a great way to refresh the characters down the line. But the initial release will not be fabric.
    Also, as PixelDan has pointed out in his Adora review, it's virtually impossible to move a long-haired female figures' head up and down...even with rubber hair. How can one pose Adora looking up at her sword as she transforms into She-Ra? One cannot. An extra rooted head would allow for movement/poseability of the head in ANY direction!

    On August 1st, 2008 I started a poll about getting extra heads. It's hard to tell the *true* results as some people who hate PoP and have no intention of buying the figures could have voted, but the results were basically 50/50 out of 106 votes:

    51 or 48.11% FOR an extra rooted head
    55 or 51.89% AGAINST an extra rooted head

    Poll was here: http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...d.php?t=162007

    [NOTE: If any more votes come in, please dis-regard them as the votes haven't changed for OVER a year. These were the official results and I'm unsure if I can close the polling.]

    ToyGuru has told us many times they would do second heads for figures that absolutely need a second head or have a compelling reason for a second head. PoP girls have both: rooted will allow for up-and-down head articulation and is a throwback to the original toys.

    Why no heads then?

    TG says Mattel would have to change vendors, but in the exact SAME Q&A session he explains that they DID change vendors! Why would they not look for a vendor that can DO rooted hair if they had to switch? (see quotes and then I'll continue below).

    From the EXACT same Q&A session:

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    4. With the announcement of alternate heads for some figures, how do you determine who gets an extra head and what that head will be? For example, many fans would love to see POP figures come with alternate heads with rooted hair, or Skeletor come with an Alcala inspired head.
    We handle this based on two factors: 1: Who absolutely needs a second head (Mer Man and Man-At-Arms come to mind) and how much tooling do we have for the total line for the year. Obviously the more successful the line is the more tooling dollars are available. We wouldn’t do a second head just to do it or to do a second expression, a figure would have to have a compelling reason to need a second head.

    Also, for major characters like Skeletor, we would be more likely to do a new release then pack in a new head since he is a guaranteed seller no matter what the head is.

    At this time we will not be doing rooted hair for any of the characters. All POP characters will have plastic hair to keep a uniform line look and keep costs down. (having rooted hair means using a vendor who can do rooted hair and the MOTUC line and the DCUC line is produced in a plant that does not do rooted hair). Changing vendors is expensive and would slow down production.
    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    9. Given the durability issue of King Grayskull and the numerous broken figures, what is Mattel doing to insure durability on future MOTUC figures?
    We switched vendors.
    Okay, so we don't want to cause any crazy expenses or MOTUC slowdown, so why not just have the rooted heads made at a Barbie factory? The answer doesn't REALLY make sense here. We're not asking Mattel to make full figures in different factories, just a head where they make Barbie heads. MOTUC figures are made in China as is Barbie. I don't see the extra tariffs and product development issues. They would basically be smaller sized Barbie heads. It should be 100% possible. Here's the full answer though:

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    8. Instead of switching vendors, couldn't Mattel just produce rooted hair POP heads at a factory that makes Barbie heads? You could then package an additional rooted hair POP head with figures, or produce a set of additional variant heads to sell to fans.
    While this sounds like a great idea on paper, logistically it just doesn’t always work out. Many of the vendors who do rooted hair are in completely different countries. Because of tariffs and product development issues it just is not feasible at this point to develop MOTUC figures in multiple factories. It would just slow things down too much. For now, we hope fans will be excited that we will be including POP and other females in the line and many fan demanded characters.
    Now, most of the PoP figures don't really have accessories. Just a shield and a comb. The same mold shared for both pieces, just different colours...but we STILL cannot get a second, rooted head which is vastly different. Especially more different than mustache vs. no mustache (even though I loved that head). We won't even be getting She-Ra's toy sword with her as an extra, but He-Man comes with TWO Power Swords! One full, one half.

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    3. grenadaspice: When you get to She-Ra, do you plan on including an updated version of the original POP gold Sword of Protection?

    Not with She-Ra, but this would be a great suggestion for an accessory pack!
    ToyGuru did throw us this bone:

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    6. Since POP figures will not have rooted hair, that means they won't need to come with a comb like with the classic POP figures. Does this mean they could have another weapon to go along with the shield that many classic POP characters had?
    It is quite possible. We will look to include as many accessories as make sense for all of the Classics figures. But yes, it is likely a comb will not be included and more likely we will indeed to shields and other weapons. Maybe even a sword that is comb-like as an homage!
    So, riddle me this:

    All the women share Teela's body, have ONE piece outfits (possibly two-piece in future, see quote below), cannot ab-crunch or look up and down (because of no extra rooted head)...

    Quote Originally Posted by JVS3 View Post
    5. Darkspecter: We have been told that female figures will use the one-piece outfit. Would Mattel consider making it a two-piece outfit instead so they can use the waist-twist feature, especially for female figures that have distinct waists, skirts, pants, etc?

    We went right to the Four Horsemen for this one:

    “This is something that we will look into the next time we get to a figure that has an applicable design. We also want to see how the softer material works out on the Adora figure before we make any big decisions. The biggest issue that we have is that the body design was built for a one piece outfit. We are not 100% sure that we can make it work without a complete tooling overhaul. We will keep you posted as we move forward. Just keep in mind that since we work so far ahead that you may not see the results for a while!”
    Where's all the love for the female characters and the fans of PoP who have supported this line, MOTU and will be the MAIN supporters of the PoP characters released in MOTUC?

    It's the 25th Anniversary of PoP and we REALLY can't get an extra rooted throwback head so our figures can look up and down?!

    I love Mattel and all the MOTUC figures we have received, but I am MASSIVELY disappointed in this and it needs to be fixed.

    I am a subscriber, will continue to subscribe and buy every character in this line, but Mattel needs to show more love to PoP fans! Where's the fore-sight?
    Last edited by Darkspecter; January 14, 2010 at 02:31am.
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    Sorcerer of Zalesia bcrduke's Avatar
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    Once again Toyguru is caught in double talk.

    The real reason he won't push a second head with rooted hair is because it would make the POP figures more expensive for HIM, which would probably decrease whatever bonus he gets for bringing each figure release in under budget.

    I have no idea if that is how Mattel works, but considering how cautious he seems about the cost of each figure, I would bet that the budget is a huge part of why the female figures are getting the shaft (Evil Lyn without any fancy changes, a la Mer-Man; the neck pegs; no rooted-hair heads)

    anyway, I just think it's not going to happen because it will decrease the profit on the females and that would probably decrease TG's income as Brand manager.

    Maybe.

    Otherwise, TG, why would you say you'd have to change vendors, but you have changed vendors for this line, and others, before.
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    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcrduke View Post
    (Evil Lyn without any fancy changes, a la Mer-Man; the neck pegs; no rooted-hair heads).
    Thank you very much for bringing up Evil-Lyn! I forgot to mention how she does not come with an extra, helmetless head or cape. She was always shown in the mini-comics with a cape, and her second head is VASTLY different from a helmeted one. 200X Evil-Lyn went helmetless in the MYP cartoon with white hair, so I doubt that look is off-limits

    That didn't deserve a second head but a MUSTACHE did!?
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    Heroic Warrior
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    After seeing the first two figures in hand I think rooted hair would look dumb on these figures.

    But you can buy a Barbie doll if you like and replace the hair...

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    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoViEfReAk View Post
    After seeing the first two figures in hand I think rooted hair would look dumb on these figures.

    But you can buy a Barbie doll if you like and replace the hair...
    Angel-T made a custom MOTUC She-Ra from Teela and used real hair and I think it looks quite good:



    She also doesn't really look out of place with the guys:

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    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Excellent points, especially the part about Mattel being open-minded about flocking, smells etc. on classic MOTU figures when fans express interest in those things. I've always been of the mind-set that POP characters needed the second head treatment. Out of all the characters available to MOTUC, it makes the most sense to include a second head with the females of POP, given that it's a drastically different look compared to the sculpted hair and would also solve the problem of restricted head movement. Please work to make this happen, Mattel!

    In addition (as other folks have sometimes pointed out), when the 4H were designing the female body, I feel like POP shouldn't have been the after thought since this is where the vast majority of females are coming from. I'm really interested in eventually seeing a Type 2 body.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoViEfReAk View Post
    But you can buy a Barbie doll if you like and replace the hair...
    It's not possible, unless you glue the hair on the figure. Not sure this would look that great.

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    Searchin' My Soul DisneyBoy's Avatar
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    I feel like POP shouldn't have been the after thought since this is where the vast majority of females are coming from. I'm really interested in eventually seeing a Type 2 body.

    I fully agree. Teela looked fine, great even...but with Frosta, She-Ra, Adora and Catra likely to all be made in the line, there needs to be some body variety, and thought given to these figures. The Moss Man moss or extra Moustache MAA head is a consideration that the He-fans got...having POP action figures that can move their heads and have hair should be one the POPers get too.

    I doubt they'll come around...but I really, really want a thinner, sexier female body for Catra and Frosta, two of the thinner female She-Ra characters...

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    Do it right or not at all Reboot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    200X Evil-Lyn went helmetless in the MYP cartoon with white hair, so I doubt that look is off-limits
    I think the problem with a helmetless MotUC Evil-Lyn is the yellow skin - it would really clash with the white hair. If the inevitable pale/purple Lyn doesn't have a new head, that would be a separate matter...

  9. #9
    Heroic King Of Zumba mk476's Avatar
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    I'm OK with rooted hair on an extra head, but I am VERY thankful the figures all have sculpted plastic hair in this line.

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    I am that I am Heidi's Avatar
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    I'd wish to either see rooted hair or alternative head-sculpts (i.e with Adora a hair with a pony tail) in the future.

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    Shera's secret heartthrob oulala's Avatar
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    As a kid, I hated the fact that POP figures didn't blend better with MOTU toys. So I'm not very nostalgic of rooted hair but that's just me. The whole idea behind MOTUC is that they're unifying every brand into one so I'm all for plastic hair.

    There are a few other issues with Rooted hair that you should think of before you start clamoring for it. (And please note that I'm not talking about the 'Oooh, I'll get cooties if I buy a figure with doll's hair' point which to me is bull crap )

    1) Rooted hair looks better with real cloth. I'm thinking about Mego, about the Tonner dolls, about Hot Toy's amazing female figures like Silk Specter.
    Rooted hair mimicks human hair, it brings a more realistic element to the figure, just as real cloth mimicks human clothes, bringing a more realistic feel to the figures.

    Rooted hair over plastic sculpted clothes looks hybrid. Just as a He-man MOTUC body figure with real furry boots and real furry underwears would look extremely hybrid and weird. I think it's no coincidence that the person who did that (very nice) She-ra custom posted above added real cloth for the cape.

    2) Rooted hair doesn't do too well will fully articulated bodies. Hairs get stuck in elbow joints, in balljoints, etc. See, Mego had cloth outfits that stretched over most articulations. (another reason why I think rooted hair and real cloth go hand in hand). I own a 'Cosmic Angela' from McFarlane toys and although the figure has limited articulation, a lot of her ponytail ended up being 'torn' or tangled into those points of articulation. So you end up with dishevelled, half bald figures... Not a very great prospect if you ask me.

    3) You can't just reroot pre-existing heads. It wouldn't work. You need to make the head with vinyl - i.e. like Barbies - There is something about vinyl that makes sculpts look less sharp as if the plastic couldn't really keep details very well. I'm not sure why that is, but you can see what I mean with the infamous 200X She-ra.
    The original face sculpt (that was going to sport plastic hair) was very sharp. When Mattel decided to go 'rooted', the head was cast in vinyl. It's the same sculpt but there is something a little round, a little undefined about the nose, lips, etc.

    There are very few action figures with heads made of harder plastic and the rooting is limited i.e. the hair implant has to be more spaced out so the figures look as if they had a lot of bald patches. (Kiss action figures from McFarlane toys...terrible)

    4) If despite my previous point, Mattel did decide to include an extra, vinyl head with rooted hair, as a hommage to the original POP figures, there would be another problem: the neck peg. Vinyl heads (like Barbie heads) need a different kind of peg to keep them moving and tight. (Usually with an 'arrow' shaped peg that's very difficult to remove, once inserted). So it would be very difficult if not impossible to swap a hard plastic head for a vinyl head without having to redesign a different neck.

    For all these reasons, I'm glad we are not getting rooted heads. There are enough issues with the female body to keep Mattel busy for a while...
    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
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    Heroic Warrior CicconeSC's Avatar
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    Great point about the female figures!! I thought this was an adult line? Mattel is treating the females as they would in a retail line, thinking "oh, boys won't buy a female" LOL ADULTS WILL!!! I love the female figures and with POP fans, I think the 2nd rooted hair head is PERFECT! A great way to pay homage to the POP fans and the original doll, while still keeping the sculpted hair for the MOTUC fans and those men who think female figures are still "not worthy" of their precious collection. ha ha ha that still makes me laught that some men are still into that "don't play with a female son!" mentality their poor dad's put into their heads.

    Mattel needs to treat the female figures the same as the men, and there should really be a type 2 body made quite soon!! Hopefully with She-ra.

    Also Mattel should treat the POP fans the same as the MOTU fans and include the rooted hair 2nd head, but again this would be smart and customer friendly....two things Mattel can't seem to EVER think about doing.

    A line will only succeed when the company making the product puts quality and customer service first.

    Lines that don't have those two IMPORTANT factors come and go....we see it everyday in the toy world and we definetly saw it with the 200X MOTU toy line.

    Or we could get a second head with their hair up or in a ponytail, the female sculpt needs to be improved and the females share all parts, the men will and have more than one body....so atleast let all the females have two heads. If the rooted hair isn't an option right now, then atleast include a second head with a hairstyle to allow the head to move up and down while keeping the original head with the hair down. Great option for fans and perhaps they could bring the POP line to retail with rooted hair for fans and I personally think they would sell great in retail with the girls and boys that would play with them.

    Bringing POP to retail would sell well, due to the fact they are like little barbies and also Mattel could make 12" barbie versions of the POP girls. Add a new cartoon for the line and they will sell like hotcakes....look at the other 80's girls toys (i.e. Strawberry Shortcake, Rainbow Brite) they are selling well and so will POP. 25th anniversary Mattel....bring POP to retail, and still keep them in the MOTUC line as well. It's a win win and Mattel will have more tooling dollars from the retail sales to improve MOTUC and the POP females in this line or any female in this line lol.
    Last edited by CicconeSC; January 13, 2010 at 07:22am.

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    Heroic Warrior Azrael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CicconeSC View Post

    Mattel needs to treat the female figures the same as the men, and there should really be a type 2 body made quite soon!! Hopefully with She-ra.
    What do you mean treat women the same? how are they
    treated differently? why is there a need for 2 different bodies

    Also Mattel should treat the POP fans the same as the MOTU fans and include the rooted hair 2nd head, but again this would be smart and customer friendly....two things Mattel can't seem to EVER think about doing.

    A line will only succeed when the company making the product puts quality and customer service first.

    Lines that don't have those two IMPORTANT factors come and go....we see it everyday in the toy world and we definetly saw it with the 200X MOTU toy line.
    You mean make a minority happy? There are plenty that prefer sculpted hair as
    oppose to rooted and while an occasional rooted head may be a
    nice gesture I don't see how its that essential.
    Last edited by Azrael; January 13, 2010 at 08:09am.

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    Fake Impostor Non-Fan pH6's Avatar
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    There are a few that could be made rather easily with a plastic head thus being able to use the same neck joint. The characters with a helmet or such, have their hair come out from under the helmet, rooted in another piece inside the head.

    Not that I care much if the female figures come with 'real' or sculpted hair, as long the end result pleases me. Although I do think that Entrapta simply can't be done justice with a rubber hair.
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    Heroic Warrior SAMURAI36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oulala View Post
    As a kid, I hated the fact that POP figures didn't blend better with MOTU toys. So I'm not very nostalgic of rooted hair but that's just me. The whole idea behind MOTUC is that they're unifying every brand into one so I'm all for plastic hair.
    I agree totally. Honestly, I can't believe that in 2010, anyone wants rooted hair. Rooted hair is the fine line between playing with action figures, and playing with a DOLL, especially for a female figure. Not that I actually play with my figures, mind you.

    But I feel like, as has already been stated, that the focuse should be more on getting the articulation aspect for the figs right, moreso than hair.

    Regarding Adora's head movement, that's not really an issue for me. As long as her head can turn left and right, I'm good.

  16. #16
    Evil Lord of the Deadlift Larry Waters's Avatar
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    LOL @ rooted hair being an issue...

    What do you want, to brush and braid it?!

    All kidding aside, I don't care if they ever give us rooted hair. I am of the opinion that the sculpted hair just looks better.
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    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azrael View Post
    You mean make a minority happy? There are plenty that prefer sculpted hair as
    oppose to rooted and while an occasional rooted head may be a
    nice gesture I don't see how its that essential.
    Well, it's like Moss Man's original head, for example. Tons of fans wanted something a bit more for that character than just a straight update of how the original figure looked. But that didn't mean they didn't want the original head too. -- And Mattel gave it to them.

  18. #18
    Heroic Hyperborean NorthCoast's Avatar
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    Please, no rooted hair, cloth clothing, etc. Keep the line consistent.

  19. #19
    Master of Good Hair Eamon's Avatar
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    I for one have no interest in owning an action figure that has hair I can comb!

    *Looks between legs...yup still there.
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  20. #20
    Heroic Warrior jackstatic's Avatar
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    1, to the op... Toyguru says alot of things that never come true. So take what he "promises" with a grain of salt.
    2, be careful what you wish for. You say you want rooted hair but look at how many people were upset with the full on flocking that they gave to moss man. I can see it now
    Toyguru: Here's she-ras head with rooted hair! just like you remember!!!
    Fans: Why is there hair coming our of her ears, eyes, and nose?
    Toyguru: Well you guys SAID rooted hair, whats the matter?

    with that said, i don't want rooted hair, this it is terrible on the 200x she-ra figure and i dont feel it would look any better on the motuc figures. and i agree with all the points brought up by oulala as to why it wouldnt work
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  21. #21
    Heroic Warrior
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    I'd love em to get an extra head with rooted hair...or just alternate heads for characters like Angella and Glimmer that have had two completely different looks.

  22. #22
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eamon View Post
    I for one have no interest in owning an action figure that has hair I can comb!

    *Looks between legs...yup still there.
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  23. #23
    Master of Good Hair Eamon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Grizzlor would like to have a word with you.
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  24. #24
    Heroic Warrior Lucky HE-MAN's Avatar
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    You could also check online to see if someone is willing to custom make heads with rooted hair for a small fee. I bet alot of custom figures will be done like that.

    Don't worry we're laughing at you not with you!!!

  25. #25
    Heroic Warrior Vearn's Avatar
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    If in MOTUC we are going to see NA characters adapted to MOTU style, 200X characters adapted to MOTU style... PoP characters have to follow the same way.

    Teela and Evil-Lyn had not rooted hair. The only characters I remember that came with rooted hair were Tytus and Megator, and I consider them ugly to the worst extreme.

    Please, no more rooted hair, I want my figures to look consistent between them, and 200X She-Ra change from sculpted hair to rooted one made me really angry

    Besides that, rooted hair is the reason for that PoP Barbie toyline. So just get them when they are released and everybody will be happy

    PS: And no, I don't want them as extra heads, because that would mean less accesories or whatever.

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