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Thread: Extra Rooted Head for Female Figures/Women Keep Losing Out in MOTUC

  1. #51
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjharwood View Post
    Um, how does the reliquary deviate from the style of the Classics line, which is what the point really is over the difference between the look of rooted hair versus the look of sculpted hair?
    What is the point of debating style when in no way, shape or form has it been suggested that the sculpted head be dropped in favor of rooted? The reliquary was brought up to drive the point home that Mattel isn't a slave to everything that happened in classic MOTU.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjharwood View Post
    Isn't it great that so many fans never take a proactive interest in the line? So many people step up when things don't go their way, but so few step up to say "I want it that way" in advance. People are great!
    I'm sure you're probably being sarcastic, but yes. People asked these questions in the WTFWTK when the line first came out at least a year before we saw a female figure. I started the polling, etc.

    We asked about rooted hair and were told they'd have to change vendors to someone that does rooted hair. They DID change vendors but didn't look for this.

    Mattel is now running into problems with the female figures we thought of and spoke about two years ago. In my personal opinion, we have taken a more proactive interest in the female figures than Mattel.
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  3. #53
    Heroic Warrior kagamigod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjharwood View Post
    Isn't it great that so many fans never take a proactive interest in the line? So many people step up when things don't go their way, but so few step up to say "I want it that way" in advance. People are great!

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    What is the point of debating style when in no way, shape or form has it been suggested that the sculpted head be dropped in favor of rooted? The reliquary was brought up to drive the point home that Mattel isn't a slave to everything that happened in classic MOTU.
    I guess I misunderstood what the point of the mentioning the reliquary, over all of the other non-original-line accessories was... I could argue that your point about not being a slave to everything that happened in the classic lines further points to not including rooted-hair heads, but I know that's not the point you were trying to make.

    I think the one thing a lot of us just don't want to see is these extra heads, which potentially have an added cost beyond an extra sculpted head (anyone ever work in manufacturing and know how they root the hair? by hand, I think I saw somewhere) take away from the potential other accessories we could see with either these or other non-hair issue figures. If it can be done without impacting other factors like accessories and price, then I doubt ANYONE would have a problem with it...

    Unless you want to open a debate of which head should be on the figure in package for MOC collectors to display... You're on your own with that one! (I open my packages to display my figures, so I don't care what head is on in-package...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    I'm sure you're probably being sarcastic, but yes. People asked these questions in the WTFWTK when the line first came out at least a year before we saw a female figure. I started the polling, etc.

    We asked about rooted hair and were told they'd have to change vendors to someone that does rooted hair. They DID change vendors but didn't look for this.

    Mattel is now running into problems with the female figures we thought of and spoke about two years ago. In my personal opinion, we have taken a more proactive interest in the female figures than Mattel.
    Yes, that was sarcasm... The majority of fans sit back and let things happen, then only complain when they feel "screwed" by who ever is feeding them (toy company, comic company, tv studio, movie studio, etc.) but so few take a proactive approach that, to the companies in question, it probably doesn't seem like a huge deal. I by no means was trying to downplay your efforts, but more trying to illustrate how much people as a whole are messed up in really trying to impact their lives... *cough*voter turnout*cough* Granted, that's on a totally different scale, but the same idea in theory.
    Last edited by mjharwood; January 13, 2010 at 05:00pm. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  5. #55
    Heroic Warrior SAMURAI36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post

    In all honesty, you are playing with dolls. The term action figure was invented for the 12 inch G.I. Joe, which was a doll but they were afraid of the "everything associated with girls has cooties" syndrome, so they came up with a word that means the same thing. Boys accepted it and the term has stuck. That's the history of the term action figure. A word created meaning the same thing, but won't freak out insecure boys.
    Perhaps, but with the term action figure, came a total change in the approach to how "dolls for boys" were being made. They were much smaller than any "doll" was, and they had more of focus on durability, as well as playability. Most "dolls" don't have that. Even the POP "dolls" didn't really have that. They were clearly marketed for girls, who were more interested in dressing them up, and combing their hair. For that matter, none of the vintage POP "dolls" had weapons that actually looked like weapons, like their MOTU counterparts.

    See my answer above...and I agree, Grizzlor is the same thing. I have had to bathe AND comb my Grizzlor as he's the biggest mess I've ever had. Some people say rooted hair = crazy tangled mess over time. HA! Grizzlor far tops any of that. lol
    And you want this for the rest of the line??

    Mer personally, I'll be quite content, if they sculpt everything from here on: capes, hair, fur, etc. The latest uproar with Moss Man is a perfect example of this.

    I don't understand why Panthor has to be flocked, when Battle Cat (who looks GREAT!!) isn't, and last I checked, Tiger fur isn't different from Panther fur.

    There was no Barbie PoP line and has been no news of one. As for limiting extra accessories, look at Trap-Jaw. He has a belt, shoulder piece, 3 arm attachments, an extra arm AND an extra head. We only want 1 extra head.

    I don't fully believe the "cost" answer as all their toys are made in China and they could make ONLY the rooted heads at their Barbie factory. As most the "majority" of fans...it was basically 50/50 without taking in account those who probably voted out of spite and will not be buying PoP no matter how it looks.

    That's why they should do a rooted head boxset or just ship them in plastic baggies or something (like Gleek/Happy Meal toys). It doesn't matter how they're packaged as long as they make them.
    The problem with this, is that they'd already stated that they wouldn't do an extra head (rooted or otherwise), unless it was of some real significance to the figure, their character, back story, etc. Other than satisfying a minority of fans, a rooted hair accessory head doesn't really serve much purpose.

    And even with the changes they've made, and are perhaps willing to make, I think they are willing to go but so far, otherwise, we'd have gotten an actual mechanism for characters like Webstor and BA He-Man.

    We asked about rooted hair and were told they'd have to change vendors to someone that does rooted hair. They DID change vendors but didn't look for this.
    Because, quite honestly, it wasn't high on their list, and apparently not for most fans either.

    This is an EXTRA like mustached Man-At-Arms, Goddess Teela head, Cardback Mer-Man, Gentle MossMan, Kronis, etc.
    I'm sure you realize the difference in slapping a mustache on MAA, or the metal Jaw on Kronis, or flocking a Beast Man head, and having to ship a head to a different vendor to get it rooted.

    Is it really worth driving up the cost of an already expensive figure, to have an accessory that only a minority wants? Are you A) really willing to eat the cost, and B) want the rest of us to eat it too?

    I'd have thought that fans would be much more concerned with things like bobble-head issues, and loose joints, than rooted hair.
    Last edited by SAMURAI36; January 13, 2010 at 05:45pm. Reason: Edited For Clarity.

  6. #56
    Evil Lord of Dorkdom skeletom's Avatar
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    I would personally not be interested in an extra head with rooted hair. I'd prefer additional accessories for the line.
    I'm hoping for a Disco Skeletor for the next subscription exclusive! Fully flocked!

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  7. #57
    Johan Eggink Eterniandreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    Yes. Other toylines that have had figures with rooted hair (off the top of my head):

    - Filmation Ghostbusters: all women
    - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: at least 1 April
    - Spawn: at least 4 women
    - Wetworks: Blood Queen
    - Masters of the Universe: Tytus and Megator
    - New Adventures of He-Man: Battle Blade Skeletor
    - Princess of Power: everyone but Bow, Loo-Kee and Kowl (flocked)
    - Mego superheroes: everyone except short-haired figures

    Women losing out:

    - no ab-crunch
    - first two can't waist turn
    - not as good hip sculpting/ability to hide joints when they wear SHORTER outfits then the men, so they have to make the outfits longer to hide it
    - no removeable armour or two piece clothing...only a one piece outfit
    - no rooted throw-back extra head but we get extra cardback/new character/mustached heads, flocked figures, possibly furry and cloth caped figures and scented figures
    I meant new action figure line, I guess that would be Spawn then. Cool.

    So with women you meant Female characters. You are right. Functionally/ articulation is bad.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    Thank you very much for bringing up Evil-Lyn! I forgot to mention how she does not come with an extra, helmetless head or cape. She was always shown in the mini-comics with a cape, and her second head is VASTLY different from a helmeted one. 200X Evil-Lyn went helmetless in the MYP cartoon with white hair, so I doubt that look is off-limits

    That didn't deserve a second head but a MUSTACHE did!?
    I want the deluxe treatment for Evil Lyn, too. However, I don't think that the extra heads work as well with her yellow skin version. Regardless of how I feel about the cape, she does come with cool accessories... they improved the falcon and included the armor and perch.... Pretty cool to me.

    Since they are planning a 200X re-deux for her, those are things they can explore when she looks a little more Filmation/MYP. We'll get most of these anticipated accessories with the next release version of her, I'm betting...
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  9. #59
    Heroic Warrior SAMURAI36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    That didn't deserve a second head but a MUSTACHE did!?
    To be honest, they shoulda just went with the mustached look, and did away totally with the clean shaven look.

    They only did that to keep with the original toy, but no other incarnation of the character had the clean shaven look.

  10. #60
    Master of 3D printing Neo's Avatar
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    If they would release the POP figures with rooted hair then I would skip all of them. I won't display figures with rooted hair. I own a 200x She-Ra and she is the only figure I don't have on display. I just can't stand the look of barbie dolls in my display.
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    An extra head with hair would be nice, it's true.

    I totally understand how DarkSpecter feels about female figures being a bit "ill-produced", or about Mattel not investing much in MOTUC in general, or at least not as much as we would like them to invest.

    But hey, I was just thinking... would ROOTED hair be an obligation on an extra head ?

    I mean... I took a look at NECA's Grizzlor staction. I don't think his fur is rooted, but it worked VERY GOOD nevertheless !

    And I was wondering... JUST wondering... if something of the sort might be possible for eventual POP alternate heads...


    Please let me know what you think about this.
    Last edited by Spectror; January 13, 2010 at 07:19pm.

  12. #62
    Heroic Warrior Artistix's Avatar
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    Hmmmm...

    As an extra head maybe.

    The only problem with Adora is that they made the hair too close to her back. I know the closer it is to her shoulders & back the more natural it will look...but I would be fine with them raising the hairpieces a little more off their back, atleast so the girls can look up....not that they can anway.

    Rooted hair cannot be styled properly either. Adora's hair would not have looked anywhere near as accurate if it were rooted.

  13. #63
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAMURAI36 View Post
    Is it really worth driving up the cost of an already expensive figure, to have an accessory that only a minority wants? Are you A) really willing to eat the cost, and B) want the rest of us to eat it too?

    I'd have thought that fans would be much more concerned with things like bobble-head issues, and loose joints, than rooted hair.
    Again, this wouldn't be that expensive. The cheapest method as of now (because of what Mattel has decided to do) would be to have them made at the factory that makes Barbie heads. They just have to make ONE basic head mold and repaint it to look like the other girls and include them in ONE boxset. Heck, Mattel could even make this boxset before they even make all the extra girls. One head mold, different paint for eye colour (skin tone is the same) and different hair. That's a total of 14 heads (not including the She-Ra and Catra variants and Double Trouble. Her head is too complex to root and include in the boxset). The female figures that have head pieces or masks (She-Ra, Catra, Glimmer, Spinnerella, Netossa and Entrapta) could have the extra pieces in their package. Problem solved. Just as cheap as making a classic re-painted weapons pack (which we may be getting).

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    If they would release the POP figures with rooted hair then I would skip all of them. I won't display figures with rooted hair. I own a 200x She-Ra and she is the only figure I don't have on display. I just can't stand the look of barbie dolls in my display.
    Again, a rooted head would be extra, not the main head. You would not buy a figure because of a BONUS accessory? I'm confused.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    They just have to make ONE basic head mold and repaint it to look like the other girls and include them in ONE boxset. Heck, Mattel could even make this boxset before they even make all the extra girls. One head mold, different paint for eye colour (skin tone is the same) and different hair.
    So you would trade the individuality of a different head sculpt for each character to get rooted hair? That would cut down on price, but I see each character with sculpted hair actually having somewhat uniquely sculpted features too, which I really appreciate, so they have their own face look.

    If the rooted-hair folks accepted that each head would be scultped the same, that would cut down on costs, I agree.

    That still leaves the "which head is packaged" for the MOC folks to fight over.

  15. #65
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjharwood View Post
    So you would trade the individuality of a different head sculpt for each character to get rooted hair? That would cut down on price, but I see each character with sculpted hair actually having somewhat uniquely sculpted features too, which I really appreciate, so they have their own face look.

    If the rooted-hair folks accepted that each head would be scultped the same, that would cut down on costs, I agree.

    That still leaves the "which head is packaged" for the MOC folks to fight over.
    I think everyone is seeming to misunderstand:

    Every MOTUC figure will have and does have sculpted, plastic hair. These are the main heads which nobody wants to change. They would be shown with plastic, sculpted hair in the package.

    If Mattel decides to give us a rooted head, it would be an extra BONUS head, hidden behind the name She-Ra (for an example).

    If their current vendor is incapable of rooting heads, they just need to do the 1 head, different paint, different coloured hair at the Barbie factory and give us a full boxset of rooted heads.

    Either way, each sculpted head would still be the main head and all the SCULPTED heads would be unique or re-used (whatever Mattel and the FourHorsemen plan). We're not looking to change that. We want and ADDITION.

    Rooted heads can use the same head. They did in the 80's.
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by phnx75 View Post
    I'm sorry, but I have no interest in rooted hair. I would rather they spend those dollars on accessories/details and distinct heads (i.e. Evil-Lyn without a helmet) than on the same head with real hair. All the major figure lines (including collector lines like stuff put out by McFarlane, Marvel legends and the DCUC line) all use sculpted hair for females. This should be no different. I realize the original POP line had that feature, but the MOTUC is not an extension of that line (just as we won't be getting 200X stylized bodies in this line either).
    I would have to agree with this. Sculpted hair fits the style of the line.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    I think everyone is seeming to misunderstand:

    Every MOTUC figure will have and does have sculpted, plastic hair. These are the main heads which nobody wants to change. They would be shown with plastic, sculpted hair in the package.

    If Mattel decides to give us a rooted head, it would be an extra BONUS head, hidden behind the name She-Ra (for an example).

    If their current vendor is incapable of rooting heads, they just need to do the 1 head, different paint, different coloured hair at the Barbie factory and give us a full boxset of rooted heads.

    Either way, each sculpted head would still be the main head and all the SCULPTED heads would be unique or re-used (whatever Mattel and the FourHorsemen plan). We're not looking to change that. We want and ADDITION.

    Rooted heads can use the same head. They did in the 80's.
    No, I totally understood what you meant, just wanted to make sure it was clear that the solution meant rooted hair means same head for all dispplayed rooted heads, even with the different colors, paint apps, etc. Since I wouldn't display the rooted hair heads anyway, it doesn't matter to me too much, just looking to clarify my understanding. I'm too freaking detail oriented sometimes.

  18. #68
    Heroic Warrior SAMURAI36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    Again, this wouldn't be that expensive. The cheapest method as of now (because of what Mattel has decided to do) would be to have them made at the factory that makes Barbie heads.
    Which is still a separate factory from the one that MOTUC gets made in. That's extra cost. Plus, the price for the mold of the head, plus the price for the hair, vs just the mold for the head, of a sculpted head. Who do you think will ultimately be the ones to absorb those costs?

    They just have to make ONE basic head mold and repaint it to look like the other girls and include them in ONE boxset.
    So, you're willing to sacrifice the uniqueness in the look of the figures, just to get something as questionable in its significance, as rooted hair?

    Heck, Mattel could even make this boxset before they even make all the extra girls. One head mold, different paint for eye colour (skin tone is the same) and different hair.
    Skin tone is the same, and so is the facial look of all these characters. That's the problem with the whole Barbie line. Ever notice how African American Barbie looks just like a dark skinned Caucasian Barbie?

    It was also the problem with the original POP line. Other than one being blonde, and another being brunette, and an occasional difference in eye shadow, none of those characters really looked unique.

    Problem solved. Just as cheap as making a classic re-painted weapons pack (which we may be getting).
    (and we can do far more with, than rooted hair)

    For some reason, I'm really not seeing it as simple as you are. I can foresee Mattel opting out on some other accessory that would be worth much more than a second head that doesn't really add anything to the character. Like another poster said, a generic rooted head is worthless after about a dozen or so figures. I don't know about you, but I don't want all my figs looks like generic runway models, all looking the same.

    It's not like short vs. long loincloths, or repainted swords.

    Or Skeletor having both the bone head, and the Keldor head, or TrapJaw having the cyber head, as well as the Kronis head. These are actually variations of the one character, that's actually relevant to their story.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    I think everyone is seeming to misunderstand:

    Every MOTUC figure will have and does have sculpted, plastic hair. These are the main heads which nobody wants to change. They would be shown with plastic, sculpted hair in the package.

    If Mattel decides to give us a rooted head, it would be an extra BONUS head, hidden behind the name She-Ra (for an example).

    If their current vendor is incapable of rooting heads, they just need to do the 1 head, different paint, different coloured hair at the Barbie factory and give us a full boxset of rooted heads.

    Either way, each sculpted head would still be the main head and all the SCULPTED heads would be unique or re-used (whatever Mattel and the FourHorsemen plan). We're not looking to change that. We want and ADDITION.

    Rooted heads can use the same head. They did in the 80's.
    No, I totally get what you are proposing, just not why you are proposing it. Besides a difference in aesthetics, what do you really get for that increased price point, out of a rooted head?

    I can only see this rooted hair road, being one that we'd all lose out, in terms of some other aspect, if they decided to go down this road. In order to keep the price of the figures low, they are gonna have to cut corners else where.

    I'd imagine that a rooted head weighs more than, say, the Grayskull reliquary, or any other accessory. Perhaps not very much more, but when you add up the pennies more that it cost in shipping, that's gonna make the price go up.

    I dunno, I guess I'm just surprised that people are comparing rooted hair to a sword, or some other accessory that actually adds to the uniqueness of the character. It just seems like oranges and apples to me, but each his own.

  19. #69
    Heroic Warrior Azrael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAMURAI36 View Post
    Besides a difference in aesthetics, what do you really get for that increased price point, out of a rooted head?
    Nostalgia, nothing more.

  20. #70
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azrael View Post
    Nostalgia, nothing more.
    Also increased articulation/head mobility.
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    Tri-Solar Lord Oceanwalker's Avatar
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    Some members always want to create these debates about male vs female figures. Some perceived slight about how the female figures are being subordinated to the male figures. I think it is rubbish and just plain wrong.

    The Horsemen are giving the women love and care as much as they do the male figures. The female figures have a buck, the male figures have a buck. All in the name of affordability. We all knew coming in we wouldnt have rooted hair with these figures yet we still get threads like this one railing about why they can't comb Figure A's head.

    I get annoyed even seeing these threads crop up. MOTU Classics is an action figure line primarily targeted for adult male collectors. A majority of which who do not want rooted hair on these figures. It isn't cost effective for what this line is about and the time will assuredly come when some of the female figures do NOT sell out and why would Mattel want to waste money giving them the rooted hair treatment????
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    Heroic Warrior Azrael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    Also increased articulation/head mobility.
    Only a subtle increase in mobility and articulation.

  23. #73
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    Again this is why I REALLY REALLY wish Mattel would do "head packs". Fine they can't make these heads at the current facility, and perhaps they are packaged there as well ruling out making them at a different place.

    BUT... if you do the head pack idea, then ONLY that pack is made a a Barbie Facility. Each pack could contain 5 heads and this isn't just a good idea for POP its likely the only way we will see a helmetless Zodak head now. Also a battle damaged faker head, blonde teela, there are lots of options.... but mostly it would be a GREAT way to get rooted hair pop heads to us. They could have a POP themed pack with 5 heads in it, and charge anywhere from 10-20$ for it. I'd pay 20$ for 5 heads... most of the heads for pop could be the same sculpt even just with different hair... ugh... such a no brainer to me

  24. #74
    Heroic Warrior Azrael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oceanwalker View Post
    Some members always want to create these debates about male vs female figures. Some perceived slight about how the female figures are being subordinated to the male figures. I think it is rubbish and just plain wrong.

    The Horsemen are giving the women love and care as much as they do the male figures. The female figures have a buck, the male figures have a buck. All in the name of affordability. We all knew coming in we wouldnt have rooted hair with these figures yet we still get threads like this one railing about why they can't comb Figure A's head.
    I have to agree. Some keep insisting that Mattel and the 4H are being
    partial towards female figures, I'm wondering where is this coming from,
    because I have yet to see anyone who's made this claim substantiate it.
    I just think that some are overreacting.
    Last edited by Azrael; January 13, 2010 at 08:19pm.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oceanwalker View Post
    Some members always want to create these debates about male vs female figures. Some perceived slight about how the female figures are being subordinated to the male figures. I think it is rubbish and just plain wrong.

    The Horsemen are giving the women love and care as much as they do the male figures. The female figures have a buck, the male figures have a buck. All in the name of affordability. We all knew coming in we wouldnt have rooted hair with these figures yet we still get threads like this one railing about why they can't comb Figure A's head.

    I get annoyed even seeing these threads crop up. MOTU Classics is an action figure line primarily targeted for adult male collectors. A majority of which who do not want rooted hair on these figures. It isn't cost effective for what this line is about and the time will assuredly come when some of the female figures do NOT sell out and why would Mattel want to waste money giving them the rooted hair treatment????
    you say majority... but the majority is so slight its at like 2%.... fans seem totally split about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrael View Post
    I have to agree. Some keep insisting that Mattel and the 4H are being
    partial towards female figures, I'm wondering where is this coming from
    myself. Some are just overreacting.
    its coming from the fact that they are trying so hard to stay true to the original designs of the he-man line, but when it comes to the pop one aren't.
    Last edited by Patreek; January 13, 2010 at 08:17pm. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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