Ok some things just don't make sense here Scott...For reasons way beyond people or characters or anything I can control we are just not going to explore this small corner of MOTU lore in the current line.
If MVC's bible and story ideas were considered a "fan-pitch" then how do describe the striking similarities between information that has surfaced in MOTUC bios and info revealed over the years about Emiliano and Val's plans for the comics?
We've already had mention of the Green Tiger Tribe and Overlords of the Eternal Dimension (now called Timeless Dimension...) before Classics were even conceptualised...
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Maybe they pulled her and Zodak. Imagine the fan moaning if Zodak and The Goddess were STILL available. MOTUC is red hot right now. "Pegwarming" figures would indicate that MOTUC will have reached a limit...a ***** in the armor. Mattel doesn't want enthusiasm to drop due to certain characters.Originally Posted by RocketPunch
Who you gonna blame for calling her "Illuminata" when her name is Illumina? Oh right, quotes. But you call her that more than once. Just because they had her in a "secret sect" doesn't mean it's cool for you to give this character a lot of us want a disparaging nickname. Please stop disrespecting us and the character in this way. We're going to keep asking for her, so I hope you realize that not exploring this "small" corner of MOTU "right now" had best be a short period.
And you said Zodak was a good seller at the time, and Goddess sold as well as him. It's a little late for 1984 double think.
Yet they're using 200X stuff in MOTUC. Characters created in 200X were never tainted for fans, it was the choices of vehicles and variants they put in stores that caused bad blood between them and retailers and customers. Fear of the MVC stuff is illogical and childish. Refusing to use it is just petty.
I've noticed this too. Plus, why are Icons of Evil story elements singled out, but Vol 3 and the pitch are deemed off limits? Does this mean Mattel can make King Trinok and Aquarius? Will they? Does customer demand mean nothing? Characters starting off with fan demand are better than nothing, and even if they best they can hope for are the "poor" 2 week sell outs--that's still not so bad compared to other products lasting months.
Last edited by gbagok; February 11, 2010 at 11:12am.
Maybe.
If they'd lasted a month before selling out i'd be more inclined to believe your theory, but 2 weeks is still very fast.
Funny you should say that, because all of those who want Wun-Dar available for anyone, he would wind up doing the same. The only reason people want him now is because they can't get him w/o having to give up a mortgage to get one.
Believe me guys, I'm just as perplexed as all of you about Mattel not being able to find a place for Illumina in MOTU Classics, as well as some others issues that aren't making a whole lot of sense right now... But the thing is, I also feel there's a lot of folks jumping to conclusions and sort of twisting some of what was originally said in the answer to question #5.
For example, if you go back and read, the part about being "too complicated" was only in reference to Illumina's potential larger backstory in the MVCreations comics back in the day, but Toyguru never explicitly associates that comment with the fans and their comprehension skills. Yeah, it could possibly be a swipe at the fans -- that's one interpretation -- but couldn't it also mean: "too complicated for Mattel to push through publication" or "too complicated as far as Mattel's vision for MOTU's direction at that period of time?"
I expected the misinterpretation and miscommunication because of being in a hurry. I didn't expect the passing of the buck to someone's else's department though but I'll be nice and give the benefit of doubt of this one.
The whole deal with "Illuminata" is not something I have control over. The bottom line is she is off the table per upper management for many reasons. But in the big picture, considering that the Goddess was a poor seller, Mattel is going to be reluctant to do other extremely obscure characters as well. Illuminata appeared on a few panels in one out of print issue and in an ad. She just isn't a figure we will be doing in the Classics line right now. This has nothing to do with "Val hating" or anything like that. We love Val and Emiliano and the gang! They are awesome guys with a huge passion for MOTU. Why do you think I post on He-Man.org more then any other web site!? I want to do all I can to support this site, but can only do as much as my bosses permit me to. Again, I don't make the rules, but I do need to follow the recs from my management. For reasons way beyond people or characters or anything I can control we are just not going to explore this small corner of MOTU lore in the current line. No fan polls or postings will change that right now.what he said!
Can we please start getting some names right, it's Illumina...let's try practicing that w/o quotation marks, okay. Repeat after me, (it's not that complex really)..are you ready...letter I, letter L, another letter L, letter U, letter M, letter I, letter N, and finally letter A.
oh wait, there's nata gonna be a illumina figure ever is there
wow thanks for peddling the nice shiny carrot...that almost made me forget about the MVC series bible...But lots of good stuff is happening! We were able to confirm with our vendor that they could de-flock Moss Man's ears! Plus if you haven't heard MOTUC will be at retail (sort of) in some MOTC vs DCU 2 packs! This is not a form to do new tooling, but rather to do some kid oriented packs to bring new blood into the both franchises by offering key characters from both licenses at retail in fun 2 packs. And no, Superman will not be on a MOTU buck. The DC bucks will only be used for DC characters and the MOTU bucks will only be used on MOTU figures. Even if they are in a two pack together!
NYTF is right around the corner with some great figures to reveal! A lot of fan requests will be granted! See you on Sunday, I've got a plane to catch!
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since there's nata going to be an illimina figure, how about after NYTF we find out who's department it is to finally let the MVComics fans get to view some of it. Believe it or not some of us around here want those stories and have waited for them way before the 4H pitched the Classics idea.
Before that gets taken out of context, I want you all to know that I believe that neither vision of the MotU Classics bios or MVC's bible can really cancel out the other and both bios/origins/stories can co-exist alongside each other.
EDIT to ADD: Tally that's exactly how i interpreted the answer to question #5 the first time.
Last edited by Kent Parker; February 11, 2010 at 11:22am.
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For crying out loud, can we get over this already? I mean, I understand not being happy with the overall response from Mattel, but heaven forbid they or ToyGuru should misspell something! Like none of us have EVER done that!
I'm pretty sure that I saw it spelled at Illuminata a couple of times in this thread in at least one instance, possibly more in the responses here (and no, I'm not going to hunt through the thread to find them at this point, because I don't recall off-hand exactly which posts they are, since I don't feel the need to harp on each any every little typo... but feel free to look for it, yourself).
Just to clarify, this isn't aimed solely or primarly at you, gbagok. I just used your quote as an example. This is meant for everyone who keeps pointing out the typos time after time after several people have already pointed them out. It's a very minor issue in the overall grand scheme of what people are upset about here. It's one thing for them to be pointed out once or twice, but almost everyone replying seems to bring it up.
If we are going to complain, let's at least complain about the REAL issue here and not harp on minor, unimportant details, like typos, that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Even if things were spelled correctly, the main issue would still remain. That's the issue that should be focused on if the complaints are going to continue.
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Well Scott thanks for your side of things.
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There's also this Über fan business. Personally, I don't have a problem with anyone saying they're a huge fan and then not really knowing every intricate detail about the property.
While I agree that it's strange how Mattel employees are seemingly less aware than the fans, there seems to be this notion among a few of you that Toyguru is going around claiming to be a huge know-it-all fan. To me, that doesn't seem to be the case because I can remember him asking for help on the NA bios, publicly stating that he had no idea who Strobo is, asking for more information on a POP topic, etc.
I'm really hoping we can all get this sorted before Sunday.
Wow, some people on here are being downright ******** about this. They're toys! Some of you sound really ungrateful and conceited and probably don't even realize it. TG is actually talking to us, communicating with us and reaching out to the collecting community to be helpful and informative. Yet some of you still insist on being completely impractical, impatient and just unrealistic.
If collecting gets you this stressed out, maybe it's time to quit or take a break.
Last edited by DarthBrett; February 11, 2010 at 12:58pm.
You are wise beyond your years!
It is disappointing to hear that Illumina isn't a possiblity…but with all the rest of what IS available…I can easily get over it.
200X fan? Classic fan? What does that mean? I'm a MotU fan!!!
Well, he's refering specifically to Illumina and not MVC as a whole. Plus a lot of what Icons of Evil actually did was expand the backstories of existing, popular villains. Those characters were going to be included in this line no matter what.And yet they decided to use stuff from Icons of Evil and that was MVC. I'm just confused as to the exact policy.
Seems very odd that Mattel will use Trap Jaw's or Tri Klops origins which were only in the MVC comic and then call it "this small corner of MOTU lore".
Something isn't right there!
So, in that case, including those backstories from Icons of Evil in this line helps give a nod to MVC for those fans who are familiar with the comics. But bringing in (what could be considered to be) an obscure backstory that many people who never read the MVC comics aren't familiar with isn't going to have a negative impact on sales or anything, since the characters are well known to pretty much all types of MOTU fans and they still stand on their own merrit.
I can see where bringing in a completely obscure character as a figure could be risky, though I still don't fully agree with the logic as to why the Goddess was supposedly a poor selling figure.
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Reaching out to a community is his job, he is a brand manager and Mattel hires them to communicate with fans just as much as run the line. Maybe you might want to familiarize yourself with other Mattel lines and how they are run. The entire purpose of this line is an ADULT COLLECTOR line, if you even look for 5 min at how Mattel handles Barbie and Hot Wheels you will see how integrated their fan communities are with Mattel.
I also take issue with Scott seeming to want some kind of recognition for posting here the most. That is his job (once again) to speak with the fans of the ONLY line on that site that sells out consistently. I am not going to give you a cookie and a star for doing what you are paid to do properly. Jeremy P did the exact same thing (communicate with the fans) when he was brand manager of the 2xxx line and the 4 Horseman communicated a lot with us when the NECA Stactions were going strong.
My biggest issue is the constant changing reasons, when things are great he is the awesomest. When things are questionable its Mattel Legal and Mattel PR, you cannot be shift responsibility that many times and expect to be taken seriously.
I also take issue with Goddess being a poor seller, I can understand if he is meaning that she sold poorly to justify 2 figures a month but stop with the damn generalizations. We were told the required time was at least 3 weeks, and Goddess sold out in less than that time. It was never revised to be "oh well bonus figures should sell out quicker".
Do not expect people to be enthusiastic when you keep changing the rules to whatever you feel like. I am sure if someone at Mattel had made an implication that she needed to sell out really fast she would have. You do not have over 21 sell outs consecutive if you do not have a grip on the fan base.
I think the notion comes from his statements during those times he asks. Take the NA thing for example, he said that a certain figure (Darius) could not be made because they were not owned by Mattel and then in mere minutes was proven wrong due to the fact they made a prototype just like He-Ro. If you are uncertain about an issue then do not go proclaiming it and be proven wrong, it puts your credibility into question. Don't get me wrong I think its great that he asked for help, we do have the creator of the damn show sitting right here as a member and a number of fans who were on the NA Train since the show was on the air.
Back to the statement I find it a nice distraction there too, we are reaching out an olive branch (not really) but HEY LOOK NEW TOYS!?!? Go ahead orgers take the 5 min attention span and forget what you were complaining about earlier
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Hey everyone -- let's keep it respectful in here. The actual parties involved have posted whatever information they can.
Also, please, let's not focus on such silly issues as a misspelled character name in anyone's post(s). The only misspelling anyone should focus on is that pesky GrAyskull/GrEyskull.
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This doesn't automatically give people the right to be online jerks, either. Yes it's an adult-oriented line, but they are still plastic toys that in the grand scheme of things are not important enough to start getting vindictive or personal with somebody that is trying to communicate with an online community.
Like I said, take a break or vacation from collecting if it causes you to get this stressed out over it.
Last edited by DarthBrett; February 11, 2010 at 01:10pm.
yeah i asked this on matty's board as well. they aren't able to answer it in even the most general of terms.
it is pretty frustrating since the concept of "good sales" is an ever shifting target. they DID say over there that MOTUC is doing VERY WELL. I just hope that means alot of unique tooling is on its way
exactly. if it is "fan fic" now then it can be posted is what i feel.
i also feel that it CANT be posted since mattel is using giant parts of Val's/ES's work when "creating" the MOTUC backstory and posting the MVC bible would spoil Mattel's "hard work".
wut u tawkin bout willis??
EXACTLY!!! we REALLY should not sweat the small stuff people!!!
this seems to be a big problem here at the .org and for fans in general. we nitpick on the smallest detail and the larger problems fall through the cracks. all the small nitpicking make us sound like whiney, ungrateful fans and not the devoted and intelligent community that we are.
I want NA Skeletor and Rio Blast and I want them now!
I agree completely, but just for a fact I never got personal or vindictive. I have not made threats or encouraged violence and not many others have here either.
There have been critiques and that should continue, you can only get better at your job if you hear things from more than one angle.
You seem more stressed out worrying about everyone else then the ones actually posting.
If you cannot take the heat get out of the fire, we are just thoroughthis seems to be a big problem here at the .org and for fans in general. we nitpick on the smallest detail and the larger problems fall through the cracks. all the small nitpicking make us sound like whiney, ungrateful fans and not the devoted and intelligent community that we are.
I have said it before and I will say it again, people can complain all they want. I do not care if people think of us as ungrateful or whiney, the squeaky wheel gets the grease and nobody ever got anything done with making their voice heard.
If you want to see bad and evil check out the Facebook page, then you will see ungrateful hate mongering fans. We are cupcakes compared to that
Last edited by markatisu; February 11, 2010 at 01:18pm. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Toyguru...I will give you the benefit of the doubt on everything else, except saying the Goddess was a poor seller. Lets take a look at some numbers, shall we?
Longest sell out times in MOTUC:
First Issue He-Man: 43 days
First Issue Beastman: 43 days
The Goddess: 13 days
Zodak: 12 days
First Issue Skeletor: 11 days
Webstor: 6 days
Teela: 4 days (rounded up 2 hours)
Stratos, Zodac and Beastman Re-Issue: 3 days
Seeing as the Goddess beat the first version of He-Man and Skeletor released, how can her sales be deemed poor? She sold out 3.3 times FASTER! The line wasn't slow in the beginning either. King Grayskull was the very first MOTUC figure and he sold out in 6 1/2 hours.
She also sold out faster than any JLU or DCUC item available on MattyCollector. Those last months.
Also, we were told in the beginning that Mattel wanted MOTUC figures available for a month and then a couple weeks. The Goddess sold out in LESS than 2 weeks, which was Mattel's goal.
Can you please explain how the Goddess and Zodak's sales were "poor"?
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I never once singled anybody out or mentioned you at all. I'm not stressed at all, either(quite the contrary). I'm just a little embarrassed at how some fellow collectors have no real respect for others or any kind of online etiquette.
I might catch heat for this, but I actually feel bad for TG. If I were in his shoes I would have ignored most on here by now and just quit my job!
And I want to add that I don't agree with everything TG said at all. But some of the reactions on here seemed a bit hasty as they they took it personally. I don't think the fans were ever being "put down" or intentionally slighted as many on here seem to think.
Last edited by DarthBrett; February 11, 2010 at 01:25pm.
You get used to that though, with a community this close the nastiest and most vulgar ones I think get noticed a lot more.
Scott should be able to read this thread and pick out those who are just being mean from those who have valid questions that arise from his answers (or in this case Mattel PR or Legal or whatever).
I agree with everyone else that the sold poorly comment should be addressed, Mattel utterly failed in the 2xxx line by not telling us their expectations (on top of things like horrible case ratios and sending figures to odd locations like grocery stores). If a figure needs to sell out faster to justify production we need to know that.
I mean did Goddess not sell fast enough to justify production of 2 figures a month as we suspect or did she just sell like crap and they pulled her to put her out of her misery? It could be either given his numerous posts claiming "poor sales"
If you think that just wait till the 15th if Battle Cat sells out in minutes and walk over to the Matty site to witness true blood thirstI might catch heat for this, but I actually feel bad for TG. If I were in his shoes I would have ignored most on here by now and just quit my job!
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I don't think it's so little when it seems symptomatic of the "real" problem, a lack of respect for what MVC offered and it's fans now who would at least like to see the "fan pitch" but can't. They say there is respect, but it feels like a line. Bad enough a character many of us want just got dismissed, but then misspell the name after MVC had just been...well, no one should be so obtuse as to not see why that rankles. It's lemon juice on a fresh cut, Scott should know better.
Turnabout is fair play. If you don't like reading other people's thoughts, don't come to a public forum. I also wouldn't resort to name calling and then lecture about etiquette.
Just want to add my two cents:
I think the usage of the term 'fan-pitch' was highly unfortunate. It does not sound like an accurrate description to me and I would've preferred them to phrase it different, but unfortunately sometimes we don't get things phrased as we wish them to be. I too agree that MVC should be shown respect and I appreciate the fact that Toyguru made an outward showing of appreciation in his post here.
When it comes to the series bible... I'm very disappointed that we didn't get it. It was something I very much looked forward to. However, I think we've already seen aspects of it used in the MOTUC line (pretty sure the Despondos stuff was from there) and I fully expect to see more of it as the bios expand. I think this is why they were asked to not put it online so that the parts they end up using end up being surprises to us. That being said, not all of it will be used either.
As to the complexity issue, I read it the same way that Tallstar did. I don't think that it is necessarily a swipe to the fans as much as it doesn't fit with their current view of the line. In light of the fact that the current MOTU products are limited to the figures and short bios, the decision to keep things more streamlined is understandable (even if we don't always like what is produced). In the future if they expand it and give us some other media (mini comics, toons, books, whatever) then maybe complexity won't be as much of an issue and they'll be more inclined to include certain characters.
As for the sales with regards to the Green Goddess, expected sellout times and whatnot... well, we don't see the books. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes, the sales numbers, the costs (fixed and variable), upper management expectations or pressures or anything else that is going on. Maybe GG had a tiny run compared to other figures and it's deemed to be too risky to take similarly obscure characters as this point and give them figures when there are more surefire bonus character options available. Things can and do change in the business world and that can lead to different views on expectations and whatnot as well. Unfortunately this can also mean that the information we are given isn't written in stone either. Sometimes that is a positive, such as when something negative turns out to be untrue. Other times it sucks because something we wanted doesn't occur.
Edited to add some stuff I forgot.
Last edited by Darth Latveria; February 11, 2010 at 01:32pm.
Oh I know, I've seen some really nasty message boards where it just gets ugly. I guess I'm used to this site being overly friendly and when the vibe starts feeling negative, it's a bit of a turn-off (and yeah, I can see how I might seem negative right now).
I'm all for good debates and friendly arguments!
The controversy is from Mattel not recognizing Val and Emilliano's (or other members of He-Man.org) contributions to MOTU even though they do far more than "fan pitches" and are professionals in the comic and toy industry.
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