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Thread: Is Shadow Weaver Possible?

  1. #26
    Sorcerer of Zalesia bcrduke's Avatar
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    I would guess that the company that produced those cards was given a license by Mattel AND by Filmation.

    The Filmation characters appear differently than the Mattel Style/Licensing Guide characters in that set. The colors aren't as bright, and the art is a little more rough for the Filmation ones.
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  2. #27
    Heroic Warrior gbagok's Avatar
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    I want Shadow Weaver! But I'm used to the answer always being "no."

    Quote Originally Posted by synthalus View Post
    My reason behind this is because of the powerpoint presentation shown at Matty's panel at Wizard World Philadelphia in June 2009:
    http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/x...nouncement.jpg
    The explanation for why that isn't proof that they have the rights was that it only shows the Horsemen's wish list (see their logo in the background). That was what we were told back when it first came out online and I don't think they've changed their official stance on it. It's possible too that it was a mistake to include those Filmation characters--although when Adora turned up, it sure did confuse us. It's a shame everyone on there is getting or has already been made except Shadow Weaver and Lizard Man.

    It's also a shame that on this slide

    that Adam and Queen Marlena remain unmade (and I'm betting Marly will be sure enough the last to be made if at all).
    Last edited by gbagok; February 21, 2010 at 08:29am.

  3. #28
    REMAINING MOTUC FOR 2015 synthalus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbagok View Post
    Queen Marlena remain unmade (and I'm betting Marly will be sure enough the last to be made if at all).
    Queen Marlena just got filed for trademark at February 17th
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  4. #29
    Heroic Warrior Emiliano's Avatar
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    I really think we need to stop trying to push for a Shadow Weawer figure which is not possible at all at the moment.
    The only ways to make it possible are:
    A: Mattel negotiates the right with Classic Media
    B: proofs that SW designs originated at Mattel as a toy design surface.
    And that the least likely: so far t has been quite the opposite: proof that all the Horde designs originated at Filmation surfaced. So I really don't think there is any chance SW was created by Mattel when even Hordak was originally created by Filmation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelous0ne View Post
    But Mattel has stated over and over that they do not have the right to Filmation created characters. This includes Shadow Weaver! I'm sure if there was a way for them to get around this without having to get the rights to MOTU & POP Filmation rights. They would have done so. Where's Emiliano? The man with the knowledge of these things?
    Explained above. The rights status was different back then.
    Mattel had sahred rights with Filmation back then, they didn't need to license those characters, and they could distribuite their likenesses for license purposes.
    None legal line or art portraied in vintage licensed product are proof of anything: Mattel sold all the entertainments right to Filmation in early 90ies, and so went all their rights to use Filmation only characters.

    So, please, forget this cards, they prove nothing.
    Also, Twiggets and Shadow Weawer are not from Mattel' Style guide but of course from a Filmation Licensign Guide.
    It was totally normal to mix the two things at that time for the reasons I explained above.

    Quote Originally Posted by synthalus View Post
    I believe Shadow Weaver can be made and Mattel has the rights to her.
    This card set only confirms it even more for me!

    My reason behind this is because of the powerpoint presentation shown at Matty's panel at Wizard World Philadelphia in June 2009:
    That wasn't a Matty's panel.
    That was a 4H panel, and that was their wish list.
    Can't you see they even used my 200x Shadow Weraver design? Mattel woulnd't have done that.
    (well, they actually used Eamon's and Nates' art without crediting them either so I take that back)

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectror View Post
    It's not the first time that we get Mattel material containing some Filmation characters... which makes me wonder : is Mattel actually entitled to produce some Filmation figures ?
    No, they aren't.
    They simply don't have the rights.
    I think this should be pretty clear to everybody by now.
    There are a few things not clear of course, and I'm sure even Mattel's legal is havign trouble at figuring eveythign out, as the documents are all over the place. We offered to clear up some stuff, but we haven't got chance to do it.

    Unfortunately, somethings something cna become pretty clear, but Mattel legal still want to have somethin on file.
    Other times they do whatevere they want. I'm really confused about that too.

    Let's make a few examples:
    Ocatvia: I found both the original Mattel design by Ted Mayers (Octopus Woman) and Filmation Model Sheets marked as "Mattel Toys".
    Id' believe that would be enough to clear her, but Toygury spublically said they are not.
    Before I presented Scott the photo of Gygor we featured on the site some time ago, they had no idea Gygor ever existed. Now it's a figure.
    We rencently found out that there is a strong possibility that Jitsu and Strongarm originated as one characters, and then the design was differentiated and used as two separated entities in the show.
    But, until a Mattel design is found, Mattel would never take the risk.

    The only other thing left to say is that we came across a few cases where Mattel is getting involved in products or license about vintage cartoons.
    This is really weird.
    When we did the DVD for the Filmatuion series, Mattel wasn't involved at all and only ER had to give approval.
    Now things seems to be different, and I really have no idea what that means, other than something recently changed and it hasn't been revealed to us yet.

  5. #30
    Heroic Warrior eurorko's Avatar
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    I blame the people in charge of the original lines. They should have made both Shadow Weaver, and Scorpia. I remember as a kid I almost thought that figures existed of these two but that I could never find them. What were they thinking? I mean the Sorceress barely made it into the line before the line ended. Can you imagine if she didn't. We wouldn't be getting her either.

    Of course there is that rumor that both Shadow and Scorpia were to be included in the Pop line but I find that hard to believe. I can see them in the Masters line with the rest of the Horde but not the Pop line with Catra and Entrapta. One other character that the origin kind of confuses me is Granita. Was she an original Mattel character? She is in the mini-comics.

  6. #31
    Heroic Warrior Aramis's Avatar
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    The Sorceress was a in the mini comics...so

    But anyhow, I agree with you Eurorko.

    Granita was in the mini comics, as I can remember.

    To this thread,
    It's a regularly asked question about Shadow Weaver. I hope they'll manage it now, to make it possible, to have some iconic characters from Filmation.
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  7. #32
    REMAINING MOTUC FOR 2015 synthalus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    That wasn't a Matty's panel.
    That was a 4H panel, and that was their wish list.
    Can't you see they even used my 200x Shadow Weraver design? Mattel woulnd't have done that.
    (well, they actually used Eamon's and Nates' art without crediting them either so I take that back)
    Thanks for clearing that up Emiliano!
    There goes my hope, but at least it's not false hope anymore which is a good thing!
    Maybe someday Mattel will get the rights to the Filmation characters.
    I updated the checklist to reflect the correct information as well.
    MY MOTUC WANTS: Gwildor, Rotar, Mermista, Angella, Peekablue, Spinerella, Perfuma, Master Sebrian, Sagitar, Tuskador, Darius, Kayo, Vizar, Nocturna, Spinwit, Artilla, Saurod, Ninjor, Evil Seed, Lord Masque, Twistoid, Hunga the Harpy, Dragstor, Vultak, Multi-Bot, Blast-Attak, Tung Lashor, Sssqueeeze, Lizorr, Hoove, Critta, Quakke, Butthead, Staghorn
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  8. #33
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    The only other thing left to say is that we came across a few cases where Mattel is getting involved in products or license about vintage cartoons.
    This is really weird.
    Angel-T came across a really interesting one. He sent me some official greeting cards from Hype Media and the He-Man ones are using the 2002 logo on the back with Filmation He-Man and the front. Weirdness.

  9. #34
    Heroic Warrior
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    Let's make a few examples:

    Ocatvia: I found both the original Mattel design by Ted Mayers (Octopus Woman) and Filmation Model Sheets marked as "Mattel Toys".
    Id' believe that would be enough to clear her, but Toygury spublically said they are not.

    Before I presented Scott the photo of Gygor we featured on the site some time ago, they had no idea Gygor ever existed. Now it's a figure.
    We rencently found out that there is a strong possibility that Jitsu and Strongarm originated as one characters, and then the design was differentiated and used as two separated entities in the show.
    But, until a Mattel design is found, Mattel would never take the risk.

    OK, Emiliano, I understood. Nevertheless, no one here will be able to say that fans didn't try as hard as they could to find proofs that might help, right ?

    That part you tell us about Octavia is really weird, though... So you found the UNDENIABLE proof that Octavia was a Mattel toy design, and YET Toyguru STILL REFUSES to hear anything about producing her ? How ROTTEN is that ???

    Everything would be so much easier if Mattel would buy the Filmation rights to Classic Media... I wonder if that will ever be possible. I sure hope so...

  10. #35
    Heroic Warrior Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    Angel-T came across a really interesting one. He sent me some official greeting cards from Hype Media and the He-Man ones are using the 2002 logo on the back with Filmation He-Man and the front. Weirdness.
    Yep, that's one of the things I was talking about. Me and Angel-T discussed that.
    That's a Classic Media license (in fact they are using my art from the DVD) and yet Mattel was able to dictate the company had to use a MYP background on one of the cards. (of course, also because they don't have any Filmation backgrounds, too bad they never ask us for that kind of stuff...)

    But not the only thing occurred lately.
    Just to name another one (-not the only other one, I heard about others-), it was Mattel requesting Pixel Dan to remove cartoon clips and music from his video reviews.
    Mattel should have no say on that, according to the right's status we knew.
    So, something definitely happened.

    Before someone asks Mattel in one of the Q&A: that will be useless, don't even bother. Mattel won't disclose these kind of info for understandable reasons.
    We can just play the "they know we know but they won't say" game

  11. #36
    Heroic Warrior AlternativeMindz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hordedestiny View Post
    Couple of questions.
    1. Where would you find a set of these cards?
    2.Was there He-man set similar to this one?
    3.Is there an online place to get the larrger images of these same versions?
    I've seen them on Ebay. there are similar card set for He-Man. the best card set I have seen for He-Man are the wonder bread card set.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aramis View Post
    The Sorceress was a in the mini comics...so

    But anyhow, I agree with you Eurorko.

    Granita was in the mini comics, as I can remember.

    To this thread,
    It's a regularly asked question about Shadow Weaver. I hope they'll manage it now, to make it possible, to have some iconic characters from Filmation.
    Doing Shadow Weaver would be awesome but wouldn't be so bashed cause of her lack of legs. and would mostly be a statue. with upper body articulation

    Last edited by AlternativeMindz; February 21, 2010 at 11:33am. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  12. #37
    Heroic Warrior Darkness's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone is trying to "push" a Shadow Weaver figure, I think fans are trying to figure out if one is possible and Mattel just didn't know about it. I see nothing wrong with that, what's our alternative? To give up? To sit on our hands and do nothing?

    No.

    I'm sorry but I can't do that. No one is trying be sneaky, were just trying to expand the brand we love and to be told not to because it's a closed case isn't something that sits well with me. Should we stop trying to cure an incurable disease because it's hard?

    No.

    It's passion and there's nothing that's more infuriating than to be told it's an open and shut case. That's it. Period. End of story, so stop trying.

    That kind of attitude isn't the catalyst for progress.
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  13. #38
    Heroic Warrior Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkness View Post
    I don't think anyone is trying to "push" a Shadow Weaver figure, I think fans are trying to figure out if one is possible and Mattel just didn't know about it. I see nothing wrong with that, what's our alternative? To give up? To sit on our hands and do nothing?

    No.

    I'm sorry but I can't do that. No one is trying be sneaky, were just trying to expand the brand we love and to be told not to because it's a closed case isn't something that sits well with me. Should we stop trying to cure an incurable disease because it's hard?

    No.

    It's passion and there's nothing that's more infuriating than to be told it's an open and shut case. That's it. Period. End of story, so stop trying.

    That kind of attitude isn't the catalyst for progress.
    Maybe I worded it wrong, but I think you misunderstood my post a bit. I'm not going against the idea of fans figuring out stuff Mattel doesn't know.
    Heck, it was me and AlessandraF bringing the POP style guide to Mattel's attention, it was me again finding out about Dylamug, Octavia, etc. And I explained about Darius to toyguru, not counting providing info and the first idea that lead to Gygor.
    I'm not saying to give up. Actually I'm all about keep looking.
    But Mattel refueses to receive any input from fans, and I noticed they got more and more irritated in their response to this kind of stuff, so maybe it's better to not rock the boat too much, and only offer the info when we have rock solid proof.
    The cards, the old legal lines, are things already discussed, and those don't bring anything new to the table.

    All I'm saying about SW is that as much as we look she's still is a Filmation creations. I found proof of that.
    We found proof that Mantenna, Leech, Hordak and Grizzlor originated at Filmation for the She-Ra show!
    So, I wouldn't call caser closed, but c'mon, how many chances are there we'll find other something that contraddict this origin about her?
    A bunch of cards won't do anything, when we get to orginal Filmation development art.

  14. #39
    Heroic Warrior Darkness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    Maybe I worded it wrong, but I think you misunderstood my post a bit. I'm not going against the idea of fans figuring out stuff Mattel doesn't know.
    My reaction was based on your first sentence. I knew you didn't want the fandom to stop researching based on what you said in the rest of your post but my initial reaction was the one I wrote about, sometimes those have to be said just because. The first sentence of your post basically says "just don't do it." I've never reacted well to things like that, I just don't think it was worded quite right.

    Regardless, I get what your saying so it's no biggie. If Mattel wasn't so distant with it's fans, things like this wouldn't be an issue.
    Wanted: Episode 40 Comic.

  15. #40
    Evil Villain!!! adam03's Avatar
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    I still can`t see why they can`t use the sots comic that was produced inhouse by Mattel, I don`t see how it`s any different than any mini comic that was also printed inhouse at Mattel that Mattel says CAN be used.

  16. #41
    Heroic Warrior urbanmyth's Avatar
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    Quick question about legal rights and stuff. How is it that Mattel was able to use Count Marzo and Evilseed in the MYP show and now in the toys when those were Filmaiton characters? Were these originally designed at Mattel before they appeared on the Filmation cartoon but just never made it into today? This one has always confused me.

  17. #42
    Filmation She-Ra Forever! AlessandraF's Avatar
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    I already said about this argentinian/brazilian cards.... however I have also UK cards with SW.
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  18. #43
    HeroicUniter PrinceAdam101's Avatar
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    I had a thread on here recently about SW and ToyGuru visited and pointed out that "we are well aware of the fan's demand for SW, but she simply isn't in the cards".

    Case closed. It sucks, but there it is. If things change, then they know we want her and they will make her. I've given up dwelling on her, and choose to focus my future hopes on other characters that CAN get made.
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  19. #44
    Do it right or not at all Reboot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanmyth View Post
    Quick question about legal rights and stuff. How is it that Mattel was able to use Count Marzo and Evilseed in the MYP show and now in the toys when those were Filmaiton characters? Were these originally designed at Mattel before they appeared on the Filmation cartoon but just never made it into today? This one has always confused me.
    As I recall, they did a deal for the names, but NOT the likenesses (which is why the MYP versions of the two bear no resemblance to the Filmation versions).

  20. #45
    Heroic Warrior AlternativeMindz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reboot View Post
    As I recall, they did a deal for the names, but NOT the likenesses (which is why the MYP versions of the two bear no resemblance to the Filmation versions).

    It also could be that with the rights to names they have to be active (i.e like the reason gi joe for a while kept using heavy duty over roadblock the trade mark on the name went ) so grabbing up the name count marzo isn't too hard but the likeness is a different story

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  21. #46
    Evil Villain!!! adam03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlternativeMindz View Post
    It also could be that with the rights to names they have to be active (i.e like the reason gi joe for a while kept using heavy duty over roadblock the trade mark on the name went ) so grabbing up the name count marzo isn't too hard but the likeness is a different story
    the characters had to be vastly different from their Filmation counterparts

  22. #47
    Über Fan Adam_Prince of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    Ocatvia: I found both the original Mattel design by Ted Mayers (Octopus Woman) and Filmation Model Sheets marked as "Mattel Toys".
    Id' believe that would be enough to clear her, but Toygury spublically said they are not.
    I am inclined to believe that the design of Octavia originated at Mattel.

    All of the Princess of Power characters designed by Mattel feature rooted hair, because it was a required play feature.

    Most of the Princess of Power characters designed by FILMation, e.g. Granita, Scorpia, Shadow Weaver, etc. do not feature hair, because it was not a required design consideration.

    Unfortunately, there does not appear to be a smoking gun, i.e. the design from which the FILMation model sheet is based, or a document that establishes that "Octopus Woman" is that design. Otherwise, Octavia would be fair game.

  23. #48
    Heroic Warrior Wulff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    But not the only thing occurred lately.
    Just to name another one (-not the only other one, I heard about others-), it was Mattel requesting Pixel Dan to remove cartoon clips and music from his video reviews.
    Mattel should have no say on that, according to the right's status we knew.
    So, something definitely happened.
    I would guess that since Mattel is sort of officially endorsing Pixel Dan by giving him early review figures, and exclusive interviews, that they don't want to be associated with him using pirated content. (Whether Mattel has the rights or not, I would assume PD didn't ask anyone for permission to use that material). If they do try to buy back the Filmation rights one day, they don't want the current rights holders going "Hey, your reviewer has been swiping our stuff! ***!"

    Thanks BTW for trying to put an end to the constant attempts to prove Mattel could do a filmation character this way or that way. Though, I think some people will just never accept the truth.

  24. #49
    Heroic Warrior Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam_Prince of Eternia View Post
    I am inclined to believe that the design of Octavia originated at Mattel.

    All of the Princess of Power characters designed by Mattel feature rooted hair, because it was a required play feature.

    Most of the Princess of Power characters designed by FILMation, e.g. Granita, Scorpia, Shadow Weaver, etc. do not feature hair, because it was not a required design consideration.
    Just to add a detail: she was a MOTU design, created by the MOTU team, not a POP design

    Unfortunately, there does not appear to be a smoking gun, i.e. the design from which the FILMation model sheet is based, or a document that establishes that "Octopus Woman" is that design. Otherwise, Octavia would be fair game.
    I guess for Mattel Lawyers that isn't enough, you'r right.
    Too bad that Filmation's models are marked Mattel Toy. It's just logic they are from that design, but I know just pure logic may not be enough for them.

    Still, I wonder how they did for Gygor.
    The only existign document is that photo owned by Josh Van Pelt, Mattel had no idea he even existed until I showed them the pic.
    And still, even without having something on file, they did a figure.
    It's just confusing.

  25. #50
    Heroic Warrior AlternativeMindz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    Just to add a detail: she was a MOTU design, created by the MOTU team, not a POP design


    I guess for Mattel Lawyers that isn't enough, you'r right.
    Too bad that Filmation's models are marked Mattel Toy. It's just logic they are from that design, but I know just pure logic may not be enough for them.

    Still, I wonder how they did for Gygor.
    The only existign document is that photo owned by Josh Van Pelt, Mattel had no idea he even existed until I showed them the pic.
    And still, even without having something on file, they did a figure.
    It's just confusing.

    Didn't gygor get mentioned in the book Mastering the universe ??

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