Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 002 Discussion!

[Lord_Of_Destruction]

something to think about with the G.I. Joe comparison on the names. Not every character's name get's revealed for example:

Snake Eyes is listed as "Classified"
Jinx is listed as "TOP SECRET" (Though the comics later revealed her name to be Kimi Arashikage)

Strangely some of Storm Shadow's file cards list his name as Classified when previous cards gave his full name (Thomas S. Arasikage)

Other characters (villains) are simply listed as "Unknown" or just left blank. So everyone has a real name but not all of them are revealed. The closest we've gotten in the MOTUC bios is Faker who's listed as N/A (meaning Not applicable)

[JakeofEternia]

First off I'm really loving the show guys and all the positive discussion that raises from the shows, so lets get right into the discussion part...

I'm going to completely agree with what Pixel Dan said about Skeletor and Demo Man, and I think Emiliano was pretty much spot on with his view of the situation too. While it does seem very "Star Wars" like, it does draw from larger heroic archtypes. I always liked the Skeletor is really Keldor who is Randor's half-brother idea. Scorned for whatever reason, and not the heir to the throne of Eternia. He felt shunned and dabbled in dark arts (Mordred, son of King Arthur anyone?) and came for vengance against Randor in the Great Unrest, but was soundly defeated and basically imprisoned in the Dark Hemisphere where he was left to brood and improve his powers before he finally went mad and did break out and went for vengance and power.

Keldor/Skeletor was a great enough character alone and didn't need a demon to be added in to his backstory to make him any better or more layered. I get that Mattel wanted to add in as much as they could from previous incarnations of the story, but they don't really need to feel that compelled to include everything, especially a newly minted concept that is a cobblestone of old ideas put together. I'm all for new stuff in MOTUC, but if you want to do new stuff, do real new things, like who was Keldor's mother? How does that part of his life play into who he became? That's the info a lot of us would really like to know.

As for the real name thing, I'm fine with it where it makes sense. In certain cases like Adam/He-Man, Keldor/Skeletor, or Trap Jaw/Kronis, those all make sense, not just because we were previously introduced to those real names, but the re-naming was essential to the story arc of their character, it represented a transition for the character. Keldor was the half brother of Randor, but he was changed and he became Skeletor. Adam transforms to He-Man. In cases like Beast Man or Mer Man they didn't change on a very definite level like the others did that would necessitate a rebranding. It's just needless naming at that point.

In the case of Evil Lyn I actually like her name. Her real name of Evelyn Morgan Powers is alright, it's grown on me, and I could see her gaining the nickname Evil Lyn through foes and reputation, and I could see that nickname stick given her disposition. So to me that one makes sense.

As to the whole closing of "Good Journey", it seems more odd to me when someone, in a context relating to MOTU doesn't use it. I love Masters Cast, it's a great pod cast, but I never thought they had any sort of exclusivity on the saying. If anything "Good Journey" is a send off that belongs to us all as Masters fans.

[Spikewolfe]

Another great episode guys!


The only defence that I can really see for Demo-man is that it harkens back to the original mini-comics and the origin of Skeletor there - he is a demonic being from another dimension.

The Demo-man thing kind of merges this origin with his later one - Keldor.

I'm surprised this point hasn't come up more. In order to touch on all available aspects of continuity for the classics line, Mattel found a way to include the line about Skeletor's origins from the 26 page version of the "He-Man and the Power Sword" mini comic. Yes nobody had heard of Demo-Man before the Skeletor bio, but Mattel used Demo-Man in order to bring the extra-dimensional aspects of Skeletor's origins back to light. To do this, they could have just made something up, but instead they took the time to dig through the archives, and found a way to bring us a really cool looking character (there's images on the org here somewhere I'm sure!). For pulling off the Skeletor origin with combined parts from different continuities, while bringing us a cool new character from MOTU's earliest origins, I give a huge thumbs up to Mattel!!!

[KingRandor82]

Val, I may have an answer for you in regards to why Mattel may not be doing pre-orders for MOTUC: as I learned in regards to doing credit card authorization, they'd have to go to an outside authorizer to authorize the cards; especially when it comes down to a pre-order that may not be ready by the time they plan on it.

I don't think Mattel wants to spend the extra money; you & Emiliano even said yourselves that you fear heavy fallout once the bubble on this line bursts, due to how low the quantities are--and likely how low the demand probably really is.

I think Mattel is thinking the exact same thing.

[Minion]

Incidentally, does anyone else picture the presenters' avatars as how they look?
With the exception of Pixel Dan, who we all see on the Pop Culture show and video reviews I have no idea what the other 3 chaps look like, so in my head Val is a Ferret Judge, Emiliano as James Tolken and Eamon as his Simpson-ised person.
Makes the cast even more entertaining.

[Emiliano]

Incidentally, does anyone else picture the presenters' avatars as how they look?
With the exception of Pixel Dan, who we all see on the Pop Culture show and video reviews I have no idea what the other 3 chaps look like, so in my head Val is a Ferret Judge, Emiliano as James Tolken and Eamon as his Simpson-ised person.
Makes the cast even more entertaining.

You can look for us in the news archive from 2002 to today, after San Diego we often posted photos from the Con. Or look for the Picture Pages in the Other Forum.
Or... well you can just google us (at least me and Val, when I did a search for Eamon, a pic of TheShadow popped up! )

[JVS3]

Keep those ideas and opinions comin', folks!
Good reads.

---------------

Minion:

I am a giant ferret. There... the secret is out.
Ka'BLAM!

I'm actually in the latest Picture Page in the Other forum, with my crazy beard and mustache that I'm growing out for San Diego (now that Emiliano has convinced me to go)

---------------

KingRandor82:

If they are already doing that with the store, it's not like it's going to cost anything extra, right?

I remember when we did the He-Store, we had a credit card processing company we used too. As far as I know, that's just standard.

It's like that for businesses that have those credit card reader machines. They have to pay companies for those.
It's something like a set monthly fee, and other companies have a use percentage system. I think it just depends on how much you plan to use that service.

Plus a business always lose a small percentage to credit card companies for the use of their credit. For example, if I bought at comic for 3.00 and used my VISA, the VISA company actually doesn't give the retailer the full 3.00. It's something like 99% or 98% they get paid of the 3.00.

If anyone knows more about how businesses and credit card use/processing works, please, let us know!

[Irian]

This is a VERY good point, and why I'm glad to see so many differing opinions here!

But I just can't look past that with Skeletor's bio. When I first read it, my exact thought was what I said in the podcast, and it's hard for me to think otherwise. While many of you have great points, I personally just don't like the idea that Skeletor's evil might be attributed to by some demon he was merged with rather than just his jealousy/thrist for power. It just doesn't sit right with me.

OH, I get that, I don't like the idea either, that the demon could be responsible for Skeletor being evil.

But because I like to stay happy I chose to believe the interpretation that doesn't make me angry. That is: The Demon (which is not called Demo-Man ) is responsible for Skeletor's demonic features, for him staying alife and may be for some of his power. His soul is completely Keldor, although comepetely crazy due to the transformation

[scott metzger]

A few thoughts on the discussions here:

I've long been on record as despising the whole "Skeletor is Randor's brother" idea simply because it marginalizes He-Man (same reason I don't like King Grayskull). Adam is basically in the middle of someone elses fight this way. It is an archetype, but one way overused and really detrimental here. I like the idea that the battle is and always will be between He-Man and Skeletor. I don't mind the old idea of Keldor being shot back to He-Ro's time and becoming the big bad there, maybe with hints of him becoming Skeletor. but that's as far as I'd want to go. Then again, if it gives us a Demo-Man figure, I'll simply ignore the backstory and enjoy a cool toy on it's own merits.

As far as names go, I think it's logical that the human characters have real names, like Duncan. I seriously doubt Mama Neck named her bouncing baby boy Meka. Clamp, Meka, even Extendar undoubtedly have given names and simply go by the code names in battle (in my mind, either the King or Queen dubbed Clamp with his name when they saw his weapon of choice, and he thinks it's as silly as we do. He just doesn't want to hurt the royal feelings by saying so). As for Buzz Off and some non-human Eternians, I've often thought that some of their names are literally unpronouncable by a human larynx, and the names they use are the closest we could come to saying them, or something they came up with simply not to be called "hey, fish face" all the time.

Of course, you really can't think about it too much with such lines, or you have to question why a robot from another planet is called "Bumblebee" or "Jazz."

[MegaGearMax]

Of course, you really can't think about it too much with such lines, or you have to question why a robot from another planet is called "Bumblebee" or "Jazz."

Orci and Kurtzmann already thought that out for Transformers. Those names are chosen by the Autobots after they scanned the internet.

[gbagok]

I think Demo-Man is Skeletor's King Grayskull. He makes Skeletor a unique entity similar to He-Man, not simply another demon from another dimension where others like him possibly hang out. He's not like the various other foes He-Man has to deal with, he too is transformed. Also, it keeps the ratios equal as far as variants go. It's like this:

He-Man:Skeletor::
Adam:Keldor::
King Grayskull: Demo-Man

If it were up to me, Demo-Man in a story would be so alien that he wouldn't even talk, he'd be intelligent like the Predator or something, but he's just raw power and force while Keldor would be more cunning and plotting. Either Keldor was only equal to Evil-Lyn in magical power prior to becoming Skeletor, or he was actually inferior but had charmed her into serving him (which would make her resent it when he became Skeletor and surpassed her).

[MegaGearMax]

I think Demo-Man is Skeletor's King Grayskull. He makes Skeletor a unique entity similar to He-Man, not simply another demon from another dimension where others like him possibly hang out.

I think Demo-Man is the Alcala Skeletor from the mini-comics that fought Barbarian He-Man. Barbarian He-Man isn't Adam and if this IS Demo-Man, it would work to make him the "demon from another dimension".

A question is who the hell is Blonde Teela then? Alcala mini-comic Mer-Man, Stratos and Beast Man would obviously be other ancient members of their races, the precursors of the characters we know. Man-At-Arms is interesting since it's said that his people invented stuff and we don't know anything about MAA's cultural background. Maybe his people died out?

[Brian Ozone]

Theres no sophmore blues with htis. I loved it.

[Defendery]

Love the show, it is great to have these bios to debate no matter how we each may feel about them. I will say up front I did not read all the posts in this thread because I just have limited time online. I did want to mention however, that in all the talk about the introduction of Demo Man, which I do not like for many of the reasons mentioned in the show, I was surprised one major point was left out. Yes, Skeletor having been Keldor humanizes him and gives him depth of motive and makes him a more sympathetic character and that to me is interesting. To me though, it is not like merging Keldor with Demo Man is THE reason he is evil or that by removing the demon he would have a chance to be an Anakin type hero in the end. That honestly never crossed my mind until listening to the show. The reason being that Keldor only needed to appeal to Hordak for assistance because he was wounded so badly whilst trying to burn his brother's face off with a vile of acid. That seems pretty evil to me. I think Demo Man cheapens the already strong motivations and insidious character of Keldor/Skeletor so I choose to ignore that bit. I just feel like Keldor was in his mind wronged by not being an accepted part of the royal family and that he is an amoral sociopath and has no problem doing whatever seems necessary to achieve his goals. It does seem like he becomes more powerful when Hordak saves him, but I don't feel like he becomes more evil, he just was given better tools to work with. Hordak obviously had his reasons for doing what he did. Too bad we did not get another season of the MYP cartoon to continue on with this part of the story.

[Captjhan]

I know its skiping Waaaay ahead, but have you read Keldor's Bio? The chance to perhaps elaborate on the whole Demo-Man thing, right the ship if you will, and they do nothing. Nothing about why he is standing there, mockingly, with Both halves of the power sword and he comes from the "Gar" Race? He's from a race of fish?

[Toyguru]

Do I get to chime in too?

Nice show guys! It really is fun to hear all the discussion and dissection going on. (and I had a blast being part of the first episode)

To throw out a few comments and help steer conversation form jumping to too many conclusions:

1: Fans have brought up similarities to Star Wars, or Green Lantern, or any number of current properties. For the record, MOTU does have similar themes to these properties, but only because they all take there themes from the same source - ancient myth.

The idea of gods (or powerful beings) giving weapons to their heroes to fight evil, or sons rising up against fathers or even the whole hero rising or falling from grace theme all comes from ancient myth from around the world.

MOTU is a mythic epic world and a lot of themes will come from established mythical concepts. If they have a similarity to other properties, that is only because they too have mythological themes.

2: I can promise fans that there is intent behind the whole "Demo-Man" thing. Hang in there, I think after fans get the whole picture, a lot of you will be very much on the "oh, now I get it, and Demo Man is cool" bandwagon. To add a little insight into future info, Demo-Man changed Keldor physically and increased his power. It is not in control of him. Skeletor's rationale that he should be the rightful ruler of Eternia is actually pretty just if you read Keldor's bio. More will be revealed in time, I promise there is a much bigger picture that is not revealed yet.

3: Production runs continue to be reevaluated. But remember the biggest part, most figures will be back in time. Both Battle Cat and Trap Jaw are confirmed to return this year in fact! We may sell out quickly for the first run, but the second runs have stuck around for a good chunk of time. If you miss out on a figure, remember these guys will likely be back, they don't retire like other collectables.

Keep up the fun! Good Journey.

Scott

[Brian Ozone]

TG thats good stuff a bout Demo-Man.

Are we gonna get an exclusive figure in the future????

[Eterniandreams]

... I actually really like the brother of Randor/uncle of Adam aspect of Keldor. I don't think it's a Star Wars rip-off but, as Emiliano says, it draws from archetypes that pre-date Star Wars. Hamlet comes to mind for example. There's strong motivation there, and just that hint of *possible* redemption makes the character more interesting IMO...

About what Emiliano said about redemption, didn't Skeletor in his "Homecoming" comic, that was set after NA, also have a sort of redeemed Skeletor? He was helping the heroes and it is suggested in the comic that Skeletor was actually fighting on the good side with the mutants.

[PaulPjas]

Hey from the UK. Totally love these podcasts guys and I love the length of them...I'll definitely be listening to all future episodes. Oh and Val I seem to be in agreement with everything you say so far lol.

P.s I'm new to this site ...but loving it though!

[Mr. Shokoti]

I can't wait for Lou Scheimer!!! As much as I love movies, TV, & comics, I've never been much in awe when it came to celebrities. I wouldn't walk across the street to meet or get an autograph from most of them. In fact, I can probably count on one hand how many I'd actually like to talk with & Lou is definitely one of them.

[Zodach]

Great show again guys! The material you are covering is awesome. I have subscribed to the Podcast and look forward to future episodes.

[Count Marzo]

2: I can promise fans that there is intent behind the whole "Demo-Man" thing. Hang in there, I think after fans get the whole picture, a lot of you will be very much on the "oh, now I get it, and Demo Man is cool" bandwagon. To add a little insight into future info, Demo-Man changed Keldor physically and increased his power. It is not in control of him. Skeletor's rationale that he should be the rightful ruler of Eternia is actually pretty just if you read Keldor's bio. More will be revealed in time, I promise there is a much bigger picture that is not revealed yet.

Will we eventually see what Demo-Man looks like and learn where he came from?

I'm wondering where the name Demo-Man even came from. Is he some sort of demon and Demon-Man sounded too dumb?

[gbagok]

Great to hear from you, Toyguru! I hope that Demo Man will have at least some visual similarities to the original concept art for Skeletor (the one called "Demo Man" in the Art book that looks like a mixture of him and Beastman).

I think Demo-Man is the Alcala Skeletor from the mini-comics that fought Barbarian He-Man.

Except that we've already seen a unique looking design for Demo-Man that's quite different from the Alcala Skeletor. If a version of King Grayskull that didn't look like He-Man with longer hair and a cape was available, I'd want that too. I wouldn't want to have just another Skeletor figure acting as Demo Man when the other design is out there. But that's just me. The roles in the mini comics might otherwise be very close (with Red Ape as Beastman, and I guess Veena as Tee-La--though wouldn't it be great if we got a DC Teela as a new doomed love interest for King Grayskull?).

[Mr. Shokoti]

To add a little insight into future info, Demo-Man changed Keldor physically and increased his power. It is not in control of him.

I'm happy my opinion was correct about Demo-Man.

Based on this latest "Roast Gooble Dinner" and most of the opinions posted on the forums, I must be one of the only people to be OK with Demo-Man but hate the idea of Keldor(although I like the look of the MOTUC Keldor much more than the 2002 version). I hate that Skeletor is He-Man's deformed uncle but at least Demo-Man makes him part demon the way I always felt Skeletor was.

[Mr_Yuck]

Thanks for the info TG! Looks like I wasn't off base about Demo-Man not "possessing" Keldor

I don't necessarily see Skeletor as diminished by the addition of Demo-Man. Maybe Keldor is still in the "drivers seat" as it were, merely receiving a signifigant power boost with his merging with Demo-Man. Maybe it's not Demo-Man's influence, but the power he receives as part of the merge that makes him more twisted and evil.

2: I can promise fans that there is intent behind the whole "Demo-Man" thing. Hang in there, I think after fans get the whole picture, a lot of you will be very much on the "oh, now I get it, and Demo Man is cool" bandwagon. To add a little insight into future info, Demo-Man changed Keldor physically and increased his power. It is not in control of him. Skeletor's rationale that he should be the rightful ruler of Eternia is actually pretty just if you read Keldor's bio. More will be revealed in time, I promise there is a much bigger picture that is not revealed yet. .

Scott