*PROTECTED* King Hsss's snake form needs to be improved urgently !

[Spectror]

Why are people disappointed in the current Hsss snake form ? Let's see ...

- celery-stick look
- rabbit teeth
- skinny snakes
- missing a snake
- no attacking jaws
- no hinged jaws on snake arms
- underwhelming
- not menacing
- unambitious
- fail!

By the way, isic. I see you're a newbie. No problem with that, but PLEASE know you're here on a PROTECTED topic. It means that this topic is ONLY for people who agree with the opening post, which says that the snake form of MOTUC King Hsss is underwhelming.

You don't agree with the fact that King Hsss's current snake part is really disappointing ? Good. You can post on other topics related to MOTUC King Hsss. But NOT here. The rules about protected threads can be read here : http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...d.php?t=195917


To ²He-Ro :

I see Hsss as a hydra. You cut his head and, apparently, he dies. BUT, slowly, just like for a hydra, another head grows back, and the creature can live again !

I think Hiss Snake Arms need more articulations.

Absolutely ! And the "bendable" option they chose does NOT replace valid articulation points. Bendable means the rubbery plastic used can deteriorate with time, that the paint can chip, that the metal wires inside can oxydate and give a dirty blue/greenish color, that they can break and even pierce the plastic. More articulations would have been indeed a much better solution ! And hinged jaws for every snake head would have been real cool too (as far as we know, only the main head will have a hinged jaw) !

[²He-Ro]

by a Hydra you cut 1 Head and two heads grows back
But i give you Right - i think Hisss can build many snakebodys

Hisss have Powerfull Evil Spirit in green and is his body fallen he can use his magic from his own live-power to rebuild his body with reptile healing.

Absolutely ! And the "bendable" option they chose does NOT replace valid articulation points. Bendable means the rubbery plastic used can deteriorate with time, that the paint can chip, that the metal wires inside can oxydate and give a dirty blue/greenish color, that they can break and even pierce the plastic. More articulations would have been indeed a much better solution ! And hinged jaws for every snake head would have been real cool too (as far as we know, only the main head will have a hinged jaw) !

you have it!!!

But now i like the snakebody a lot more!
The Prototype snakebody on the SDCC was so ugly, he looked unmovable and sticky
(like yellow resin from the trees or full with (bee) honey)

EDIT: i think Hisss can have 3 Snakes and become to a confusion of snakes!

[Swanmarsh]

Having slept on the Roast Gooble broadcast, I am in no way deterred from the belief that the concerns listed throughout this thread are legitimate and should be addressed by Mattel before King Hiss is released in 2011.

The snake body is wimpy, the snakes are too thin and not menacing enough, the snake heads should have hinged jaws or at the very least attacking poses, the snakes should be wrapped dynamically and there should be more snakes.

I do think Mattel and the 4H should consider the many points raised on the .Org and fix Hiss, even push back the release date if necessary, to ensure fans receive a truly awesome King of the Snake Men!

[Emiliano]

(not directed at you, Swanmarsh)

NOTE FROM THE ADMINISTRATORS: Protected thread doesn't mean people are allowed to insult and offend other forum members.
We invite everyone to not resort to personal attacks
but rather word their criticism in more constructive ways, or posts will be deleted.

[Berserker79]

I think, it`s more a design thing, that needs to be improved.

I´m okay with the bendable arms, my vintage Squeeeze figure don`t break after all those years...

I understand, that there could not be hinged jaws on such small snake heads.

But I also think, that Hiss is behind his potential of design. Maybe 1 or 2 more snakes could have done the job...

[Neal1972]

Something is a little off with his snake form. His human form looks absolutely spectacular, I mean really that is a great sculpt, but the snake form...hmm.
Those teeth do look a little strange. Having listened to episode 014 of the podcast, I do respect what was said, especially regarding the limitations of manufacturing processes, but at the same time I can't help but wonder if there wasn't another way of designing those teeth.

At present, in my view, they look more like canines than snake teeth, and if the design was based on teeth from a real snake, then I wonder why they didn't model the teeth after those of an anaconda or python rather.

The teeth on those snakes are more shaped like the teeth on a hacksaw, with dozens of small teeth angled backwards which are used for gripping prey. To me that may be a more viable alternative than what we currently have. Is it hard to manufacture teeth looking like those? I have no idea. I'm just speculating.

As a matter of fact, I'd rather have no teeth at all in Hss' main snake than what we have now. They just don't look right. The teeth at the bottom also make little sense, since I don't snakes (poisonous ones anyway) even have bottom teeth.

I do think what was said on the podcast about the snake form being displayed in a very symmetrical way makes sense though. Once we get to pose Hss, I think that aspect of the snake form will look more dynamic. That said though, I'm in agreement with those who think the snakes don't really look attached to his lower body.

I know it's a toy, and maybe we're sometimes a little guilty of micro-analysis to a degree, but I'm just making an honest observation.

As it stands, I'll be posing Hss in his human form and not bother with his snake form. Hopefully there is time to change a few aspects of the sculpt.

[Swanmarsh]

Having listened to the 'debunking' on the Roast Gooble, I have today gone through the 200x MVC comics featuring King Hiss to review Emiliano's artistic take on King Hiss' snake body.

I wanted to get a feel for how Emiliano visualises King Hiss without wearing the blinkers of having seen Mattel's new SDCC version of Hiss.

Interestingly, Emiliano's Hiss snake body in the comics includes:

- more snakes! (most of the time it was central snake, 4 x arm-snakes plus one or two 200x toy inspired mini shoulder snakes)

- on all occasions every snake head had an open attacking mouth.

- not one snake head had a closed mouth like the SDCC version

- never ever were there "rabbit teeth" on either the central snake or arm-snakes

- the 4 arm-snakes were all equal length, not 2 long snakes and 2 stumps like the SDCC version

- snakes were wrapped around, not symetrical celery sticks.

I do not accept open attacking snake mouths, wrapped snakes, 4 arm length snakes and additional snakes as "anime hyper details", so there should be no reason why these elements were not incorporated into the sculpt for the new Hiss snake body.

Having confirmed again Emiliano's awesome vision for how Hiss should look, I am more mystified how the snake body displayed at SDCC can be defended and justified.

I understand, that there could not be hinged jaws on such small snake heads.

I'm sorry but if the snake heads are too small for hinged jaws, it just goes to prove the arm snakes are too skinny - exactly as many of us have sensibly argued.

The 200x Hiss figure had hinged jaws on the arm snakes. If this larger scale MOTUC Hiss' arm snakes are too small for hinged jaws it means the snakes are even thinner/skinnier than those on the 200x version which is just not acceptable! Fail!

Something is a little off with his snake form. His human form looks absolutely spectacular, I mean really that is a great sculpt, but the snake form...hmm.

Agree 100%

Those teeth do look a little strange. Having listened to episode 014 of the podcast, I do respect what was said, especially regarding the limitations of manufacturing processes, but at the same time I can't help but wonder if there wasn't another way of designing those teeth.

At present, in my view, they look more like canines than snake teeth, and if the design was based on teeth from a real snake, then I wonder why they didn't model the teeth after those of an anaconda or python rather.

The teeth on those snakes are more shaped like the teeth on a hacksaw, with dozens of small teeth angled backwards which are used for gripping prey. To me that may be a more viable alternative than what we currently have. Is it hard to manufacture teeth looking like those? I have no idea. I'm just speculating.

As a matter of fact, I'd rather have no teeth at all in Hss' main snake than what we have now. They just don't look right.

Yep. Those teeth sure do look strange. How could the 4H get Hiss' teeth right in 200x but so wrong in 2010? Let's face it, there were so many flaws with that 200x figure, but teeth placement was not one of them.

As it stands, I'll be posing Hss in his human form and not bother with his snake form. Hopefully there is time to change a few aspects of the sculpt.

Surely, this has to be the strongest indictment on Hiss' snake body. The fact so many fans do not want to display the snake body.

All the time we are hearing people buying 2 x Trap Jaw, or Whiplash, or Mer-Man or Man-At-Arms or She-Ra to display each of the multiple heads, even people buying 3 BA He-Mans for the different armors or 3 He-Ro's for the different jemstone.

But when it comes to King Hiss how many times have people said they will only display the awesome human Hiss and discard the flawed snake body. Such a crying shame.

It really amazes me that the 4H or Mattel haven't listened and said, 'hey fans, we will take another crack at improving Hiss for ya'.

[DO4M]

All the time we are hearing people buying 2 x Trap Jaw, or Whiplash, or Mer-Man or Man-At-Arms or She-Ra to display each of the multiple heads, even people buying 3 BA He-Mans for the different armors or 3 He-Ro's for the different jemstone.

But when it comes to King Hiss how many times have people said they will only display the awesome human Hiss and discard the flawed snake body. Such a crying shame.

It really amazes me that the 4H or Mattel haven't listened and said, 'hey fans, we will take another crack at improving Hiss for ya'.

Quoted for Truth! Especially the bold part.

[synthalus]

Having confirmed again Emiliano's awesome vision for how Hiss should look, I am more mystified how the snake body displayed at SDCC can be defended and justified.

Surely, this has to be the strongest indictment on Hiss' snake body. The fact so many fans do not want to display the snake body.

All the time we are hearing people buying 2 x Trap Jaw, or Whiplash, or Mer-Man or Man-At-Arms or She-Ra to display each of the multiple heads, even people buying 3 BA He-Mans for the different armors or 3 He-Ro's for the different jemstone.

But when it comes to King Hiss how many times have people said they will only display the awesome human Hiss and discard the flawed snake body. Such a crying shame.

That's most likely it, there are people who want King Hssss asap just to be able to display the human form. They don't care about the snake form at all. The majority of people posting in this thread actually do care about the snake form and took note of how bad it really is.

I am just hoping for an awesome 200X King Hsss Snake Body.
That's the only way that's left to "fix" this imo since Mattel refuses to revisit the snake body sculpt.

[Emiliano]

I wanted to get a feel for how Emiliano visualises King Hiss without wearing the blinkers of having seen Mattel's new SDCC version of Hiss.

I'm nto sure if this is a fari question, but since you are asking in a protected thread, all I can say is:
That was 2002 Hsss and was based on the 2002 cartoon model sheet:



It was my vision for THAT incarnation of the character based on the model provided.
I don't understand why this is presented as a contraddiction to my opinion on the current figure.

[Swanmarsh]

Emiliano, your Hiss in the comics was way more awesome than the one in the cartoon (and the one above). If anything, the cartoon Hiss' arms were too long.

And I posted also in your thread cos I didn't think it fair to restrict this discussion solely to the protected thread.

I don't know how anyone could look as SDCC Hiss and then at your artwork and say we are not being jibbed on the toy!

[MegaGearMax]

It really amazes me that the 4H or Mattel haven't listened and said, 'hey fans, we will take another crack at improving Hiss for ya'.

Mattel doesn't see a problem. When I asked if the bios could be changed if the fans hate something really questionable, TG said no, because that fans usually hate stuff initially only to love it later and used Keldor for an example. To them, the fans hate everything and complain about every design.

Nonetheless, Toyguru did say that a 200X King Hsss with better snakes wasn't impossible to do.

[Spectror]

ABOUT HSSS'S FANGS :

We'll concentrate on ONE of the MANY issues we have with MOTUC Hsss snake form.


Here is what we got with the current Hsss's snake form (the fangs were dubbed "rabbit teeth" because they are too close to each other) :



Now, here's what a VENOMOUS SNAKE's fangs look like in reality :





PLEASE note that the fangs are NOT close to each other, but "spread apart". Obviously, it wouldn't be possible to sculpt such needle-like things (such fangs would be too difficult to sculpt, and way too fragile). But spreading them a bit more is not such an impossible task now, is it ?

I hope we could at least get some fangs that do LOOK like they're snake fangs. Take 200x's Venom Spitting Khan (or General Rattlor), for instance :

[Sharella]

If King Hiss comes with that badly shaped snake form, I'll only display him in his human form.

[Spectror]

If King Hiss comes with that badly shaped snake form, I'll only display him in his human form.

OK, Sharella. I understand your approach, and I must say that Hsss's HUMAN form is absolutely awesome !

But the problem is this : people supporting this thread would like to get also a DECENT Hsss's snake form for the $30 (or more) they're going to spend for him ! WHY SHOULD WE ACCEPT A "HALF-DECENT" FIGURE (with a disappointing snake part) FOR SUCH A PRICE ?

KING HSSS'S HYDRA BODY AND SNAKES :


What should King Hsss's hydra part (snake form) look like ?

The version many fans approved in terms of coolness and awesomeness on this forum is the Earl Norem version :



Please note that this version has 7 snakes (2 more snakes than the current MOTUC version, 1 more snake than the 80's version), and that the pose is dynamic.

In my opinion, MOTUC Hsss's snake form should be based on the Earl Norem artwork :

7 snakes in all :

- 1 thick central snake (with a hinged jaw - and decent snake fangs à la Venom Spitting Khan)

- 3 snake "arms" of equal length on each side (3 to the left, 3 to the right), with a hinged jaw for each head !

[flitzi]

But the problem is this : people supporting this thread would like to get also a DECENT Hsss's snake form for the $30 (or more) they're going to spend for him !

Waitaminute... So Hssss is going to cost us $30 instead the usual $20 for a monthly figure? Or did you already add the shipping costs?



Anyway, this pic http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1.../KingHsss3.jpg just made me laugh. The snakeform looks ridiculous. It would be funny, if it wouldn´t be so sad.

Snake-Hssss looks like he just swallowed Broom. Poor Madam Razz. She cannot even be in despair, because Hssss looks so ridiculous that moment.

Tastes are different and I am sure some people actually like what they see there. But still I wonder if they REALLY like what they see or if they are "okay with it", since they won´t be displaying Hssss in his snakeform anyway.
In that case - what´s the point of offering a snakeform anyway? Just scrap it and use the saved money for new toolings that are urgently needed - a Grizzlor head or a Buzz-Off head maybe.

[soundwavempl]

Spectror,

I do agree the MOTUC Kiss Hsss snake form is lacking a bit. I really think to do King Hiss justice in both forms, he should have been a $30 oversized figure/beast instead of a regular $20 figure. He wouldn't really be oversized but would have more accessories or a more robust snake form with more snakes.

However, Mattel can do bendy parts right. I present to you Exihibit A - DCSH/DCUC Clayface. You really need to check this figure out (especially the arms) to get a good feeling how Mattel will be implement the Kiss Hsss snake form articulation. I think it works rather well. I have moved the arms around time and time again and have not had any issues with them. Clayface is a great action figure in my opinion.

[Spectror]

soundwavempl,

Thanks for this interesting article !

But honestly, even though that Clayface LOOKS great, it DOESN'T mean in any way that the bendable "articulation" is good QUALITY (the aesthetic look and the quality are 2 independent things). This kind of stuff (the quality), you actually cannot see. You need the experience of bendable toys to be able to tell.

While Clayface looks like his cartoonish incarnation, it doesn't mean the bendy thing will be good quality, that the paint won't chip, that the wires won't oxidate and pierce the plastic, that there's not too much lead in the wires etc.

A VERY interesting part of that article was THIS :

"The articulation is rather STRANGE: while the back of the package shows Clayface with the usual hinge-jointed elbows, swivel wrists and balljointed shoulders, the final product has RUBBERY arms with a BENDY WIRE inside. [...] WHY DID MATTEL GO THAT ROUTE ? NOT EVEN THE FOUR HORSEMEN CAN SAY: as far as they knew, the figure was going to have normal articulation, so they were just as surprised as any of us".

The problems linked to bendable stuff remain. I honestly don't think Hsss's snake form will be great with bendable metal WIRES, RUBBERY plastic, and almost certainly CHIPPING paint. And the lead problem is also a concern for a figure produced in China with no supervision at all...


P.S. : I have very few bendable figures in my huge figures collection : Snake Crush Skeletor (whose arms are so heavy that they're unuseful, so you actually don't even get to use the bendable arms), and 2 GI Joe figures (Golobulus, whose bendable part is totally worthless, and Lobotomaxx, an alien figure whose neck is "bendy" and doesn't pose properly either). I still wonder about my vintage 80's Sssqueeze. I know some American fans told me is had metal wires inside, but my European Sssqueeze seems to be different... Then I had that "bendable hand keychain" (poorly made... a wire in one the fingers broke without even being used harshly or often). If you want to make a great action figure, believe me, you don't want to pick the bendable option !

[Berserker79]

I can speak only for myself, but my only concern is the design, I´m fine with the bendable arms.

But adding 2 additional snakes and puting length to the short snakes would do it for me...

[Swanmarsh]

However, Mattel can do bendy parts right. I present to you Exihibit A - DCSH/DCUC Clayface. You really need to check this figure out (especially the arms) to get a good feeling how Mattel will be implement the Kiss Hsss snake form articulation. I think it works rather well. I have moved the arms around time and time again and have not had any issues with them. Clayface is a great action figure in my opinion.

I have that DC Clayface figure and I find his arms don't bend readily and I live in absolute stark fear that his fingers will split and peel off the arms.

[Spectror]

I have that DC Clayface figure and I find his arms don't bend readily and I live in absolute stark fear that his fingers will split and peel off the arms.

Which is one more example proving that the bendable option is a very bad one for an action figure.

I still don't understand people who are "OK" with that bendy thing. It's like demanding a lesser quality figure, and encouraging Mattel to produce crappy figures. Not a good way to get any QC improvement, that's for sure. Maybe some people think we don't have enough QC issues as it is !?

[Sharella]

I don't care if King Hiss' snake arms are bendable or not - I just want a more decent snake form for Hiss - the actual one doesn't look cool enough in my view. His human form is far cooler.

[Spectror]

Sharella, in order to get a "decent" Hsss snake form, you have to understand that the look (number of snakes, fangs) and options (hingeable jaws) will have to be different, but that won't be enough.

If you get a bendable piece of turd whose paint chips, who can't be posed properly and whose wires oxidate, break, pierce or discolor the plastic, I don't think you'll be very happy, will you ?

[MegaGearMax]

Then again, I have Toybiz Nightcrawler and Dr. Octopus figures who still have good tentacles and tails after so many years. Hell...even my Violator from Spawn is still good. But I don't bend them constantly everyday or anything like that.

[Spectror]

But I don't bend them constantly everyday or anything like that.

Yeah, that's the secret of keeping bendable toys in good shape : don't touch them, don't pose them too much and don't play with them ! Not really what I have in mind for Hsss.