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Thread: King Hiss articulation general discussion

  1. #1
    Bashasaurus Emiliano's Avatar
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    King Hiss articulation general discussion

    SInce there is already a protected thread about Kign Hiss sculpt and articulation, we're kind doing this a bit backwards. But in reality a general discussion should have been started before a protected thread for people who share a specific opinion for what they wanted to see.

    So, I felt it was better to start an open general discussion about the pros and cons of King Hiss articulation open to everyone.

    The main point, being the misunderstanding of how the figure is supposed to work.
    I know some have tried to explain that a bit, but I think it's necessarry to stress it for everybody, sothat it's completely clear before creating discussion based on wrong information.

    It has been stated that King Hiss' snake torso will be bendable. That means it will be fully articulated and it will be possible to pose it any way you want.

    I'm confused when people ask about better articulation. The best you could have are preposed static parts with swivel or ball joints, but the number of this joints must be limited and so the movement. In the case of a snake, a bendable body seems a pretty decent solution that doens't alter the sculpt at all.
    The only exception to this may be the main snake jaw: i'm not sure if it's possible to create an articulated jaw ona bendable body, and the prototype seems to suggest it won't be articulated, but here I'm discussing the snake bodies.

    Also, I've seen people criticizing the snake arms for being not enough dynamic.
    This is based on the completely wrong assumption that A) the sculpt has been executed in that pose; B) the snakes can't be repositioned.

    I addressed B above. About the A critique: the sculpt and the mold doesn't look at all like what you've seen.
    In order to produce a bendable toy, the snakes have been sculpted perfectly straight, in the most neutral pose possible.

    Once the figure was casted, the 4H have reworked the resin cast with heat guns, slowly bending the snake arms in that pose basically for display purpose only. And that was the best they could do: they were working with a solid piece, the resin is not bendable at all!
    But the final mold will still most likely have straight snakes.
    It was then up to the fan posing them the way they prefer. That is not the final pose, simply becasue there is no final pose.

    Another wrong assumption I read around is that if Moss-Man was changed, why it isn't possible to change Hiss? (and other comments like that)
    Well, just by Moss Man example, we're talkign about changing the areas that had to be flocked. No modifications were made to the sculpt or the final steel molds.
    That's really very difficult.
    Usually, when a figures is shown for the first time, most likely the tooling pattern (a good cast of the proototype) has been already sent to the factory in China and is being tooled for production, that's why is almost impossible to change it at that point.

    Those are the info everybody needed to have.
    I'm not saying everybody must like Hiss as is, everyone is entitled to have a different opinion on his look of course, but please keep this info in mind.
    And feel free to discuss!

  2. #2
    Adora's Father dorrmann's Avatar
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    I like him. He's a perfect homage to the vintage character...just MUCH better!
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    Heroic Warrior bamf1980's Avatar
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    My only issues with the sculpt are the way it looks, not the way it can or cannot be posed.

    Like others have pointed out, they appear to have omitted the snake that wraps around the primary snake's "neck."

    Also I've finally been able to watch the Snake Men episodes of 200x, and I quite liked how the other four snakes were the same size. I think I would prefer that to the vintage look.

    Again, it's not horrible or anything, but there are some stylistic choices that I do not particularly agree with.

  4. #4
    Heroic Warrior He-Ryno's Avatar
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    I think the bendy snake bodies and the hinged jaw are great. I wouldn't care if there were a bunch of ball joints instead. I think the sculpt is MARVELOUS!

    Thanks for the thread friend!
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    Villain in training warrenpeace2012's Avatar
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    If they were really going for a vintage look, they failed. They totally missed a snake and the vinage snakes were thicker.
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    Heroic Warrior urbanmyth's Avatar
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    Thanks Emiliano for starting this. I was very confussed by the protected thread and just chose to ignore the issue since I was not allowed to differ from the views of that threads creator. I love the idea of the snake arms being bendy, I can't imagine any other way of doing it that would work as will. My only issue with it was that I though the look of the snakes connecting to the waist could have used a little better transition but I'm hoping that comes out better in the actual figure.

    Sure, the snakes could have been bigger, longer, more of them but then again all figures could come with more accessories, more removable armor, more swappable heads and be completely free but these are not deal breakers for me.

  7. #7
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    The sculpt on the human form is marvelous. Yeah, but that snake form looks so lackluster to alot of fans. The Earl Norem art is something that's definitely the vintage King Hsss, but IMO, far better than the original toy snake form--or at least the snake form that MOTUC tries to emulate.

    This is what they've should have made in the first place. Well, we can't get it with THIS King Hsss, but maybe with his 200X counterpart...IF Mattel is open to doing this.



    It's a classic example of how Classics can get too vintage, when it ports over the 80's limitations of King Hsss. The vintage King Hsss looked the way he did because those snakes had to fit into an action feature. Now those limitations holding the sculpt back are gone, but the sculpt is as if those limitations are still in place. It's akin to keeping Kobra Khan or Leech's mouth's wide open or keeping Mantenna's legs all merged together.
    Last edited by MegaGearMax; August 6, 2010 at 12:29pm.

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    Evil Master of Meejitz super-munkyboy's Avatar
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    Th earticulation with the jaw and the bendy body are welcome in my book. Its just the thickness of the arm nakes. They just don't feel in proportion to me. Other than that and the missing neck snake, I'm happy.

    To be honest, when I have him, I'm sure I'll be most chuffed!
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    Heroic Warrior fireball13z's Avatar
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    yeah i dont get why people are upset with him. I would have rather seen the 200X Hsss, just b/c i liked him over the classic. But for the classic Hiss, it is a great figure.

    People have found something to complain about everyfigure that has ever been released. So I just will stop reading this stuff lol.
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    Heroic Warrior Marvelous0ne's Avatar
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    While I think the figure looks great! I'm sure there will be some changes to it before they finalize it and start production. Toyguru did say that they just got it from the Four Horsemen prior to the show. The bendy body is a great way to make the snakes look natural and give him the posability without sacrificing the sculpt.
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    Heroic Master Of Wisdom Arthur's Avatar
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    Maybe I missed something but in his tour of the MOTUC display case with Pixel Dan Toyguru said that the snakes will be "bendy" not bendable and I took that to mean that it will simply be made of flexible plastic like the loincloths or She-Ra's windblown hair not that it will actually be bendable in the same way Ssssqueeze's arms are.

    Sorry, if this has been already discussed, but I totally missed that. And I think the sculpt on Hsss is just perfect the way it is!
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    Eternian Pimp PIMPS ADAM's Avatar
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    I didn't even know about the hindge jaw. That's a plus for me. Run and tell that. HOMEBOY!
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  13. #13
    Master of Dreams Sandman's Avatar
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    As I said over in the general "King Hiss in MOTUC" discussion, I felt that Hiss was always a character that a lot of fans felt looked really limited and silly in his vintage figure solely because he needed to look like that to accomodate the action feature.

    I feel that doing a sculpt that would look more like the cardback art or the oft-published Norem poster would have been more imposing and interesting for MOTUC, just like we got Mer-Man more styled after the 8-back art than his vintage figure.

    I also have some other concerns, one being that if the snakes truly are poseable because they're made via softer plastic with wires inside, then there's a big danger of the paint apps flaking with much posing. I hope this isn't the case, but I'm worried.

    Furthermore, is the central snake with the main head also supposed to be bendy? If it is, cool, but if it isn't then his head will constantly be stuck in that upwards-facing position, which doesn't look as good despite the moveable jaw.

    I also feel somewhat dissapointed that it looks like he can't hold either of his accessories in snake form.

    And again, I'm not saying he's not a good figure. He is. But I think they missed the chance to "knock this one out of the park" and make him truly outstanding.

  14. #14
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fball13z View Post
    yeah i dont get why people are upset with him. I would have rather seen the 200X Hsss, just b/c i liked him over the classic. But for the classic Hiss, it is a great figure.

    People have found something to complain about everyfigure that has ever been released. So I just will stop reading this stuff lol.
    Not Battle Cat. You had to look pretty hard to find any complaints about him.

    I'm pretty fair about Hsss. I like the human form, but that snake form still looks as if it had to accommodate a human disguise like the original figure. He doesn't have those limitations in this line, but he was sculpted as though he still had them.

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    Evil Lord Of Destruction
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    Hello,
    well, did i say i hate protected threads?
    I love the Hsss as it is, and i prefer the vintage look over the 200x one.
    I dont think snakes are bad, just my toy experience from the 70's and 80's leads me to be EXTREMELY cautious about bendy toys. Will the snakes have a bendable metal "anima" covered in plastics or rubber? Those kind of toys break very easily, and in relatively short amounts of time (usually just a few years) the metal inside rusts, changing the colour of the rubber shell.
    Other than that, i think it's a marvellous figure, and i know i'll b buying two!

  16. #16
    Heroic Warrior bamf1980's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PIMPS ADAM View Post
    I didn't even know about the hindge jaw. That's a plus for me. Run and tell that. HOMEBOY!
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  17. #17
    Powers of Grayskull Lord Snake Hunter's Avatar
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    The human form of King Hiss is perfect. Is an improvement of the vintage figure
    and a good representation of the mini comics.

    Is a good notice that the jaw will be articulated.

    But the snake form is weird. I dont like the fangs being so next to each other. The vintage figure and the artwork shows them separated. The SDCC looks like a rabbit.
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    Eternian Arashikage King Kahn's Avatar
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    I DO NOT like bendy parts on toys.

    The wires used always seem to poke out of the rubber after awhile or else the rubber starts to become brittle and break.

    I want articulated arms and they need to add one more snake around the neck.
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  19. #19
    Heroic Warrior
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    While Hsss's human form seems to be perfect (and please note I said SEEMS - we still have to check the finished product), the snake part of MOTUC Hsss is absolutely underwhelming ("based on the 80's version" ? Yeah, right... even the 80's version had more snakes than this one does !) . MOTUC Hsss has wimpy, "anorexic" snakes, where I'd have liked something bigger and more menacing (think "anaconda" or "hydra" instead of underfed baby coral snakes). Bigger and more menacing was definitely a possibility, since there wasn't the limitation of the 80's "torso-shell" to deal with... Also, the fangs should be a tiny bit more realistic, like say 200x Kobra Khan or Rattlor (there again, the 4 Horsemen picked up the exact replica of the 80's central head, while there was no reason to choose that particular "rabbit teeth" limitation).

    I'm happy there will be AT LEAST one hinged haw (for the central head). Still, it's far from being enough. They should have done just the same for the arms (the only 200x Hsss choice that I think was cool was the hinged jaws).

    The main problem is the "bendy" thing. There's already a confusion possible, since apparently "bendy" and "bendable" wouldn't be the same thing !? Maybe "bendy" means even less "poseable" than "bendable" ??? More confusing terminology from Mattel, for sure.
    Anyway... I was hoping at the very least for an "up/down" arm articulation, like the 80's Hiss or the 200x Hsss had.

    I don't agree about the fact that "bendable" is a decent "articulation". Bendable means metal wires inside the plastic. These can oxydate and give some coloration to the plastic. They can also snap - especially if the so-called "bendable articulation" is used too often - and pierce the plastic. Being a collector for more than 26 years, I know how lame bendable figures are, and I sure hope that's not the option that was chosen for Hsss (unfortunately, it seems likely it was).

    We were introduced with a PROTOTYPE, at SDCC. That prototype had been finished only 2 days before the show. This definitely gives the feeling that the snake part was "rushed". Yet, we are told that the sculpt is "FINAL" ! Does it mean the definition of an adult collector line's quality and excellence, for Mattel, is the word "rushed" !?

    Nothing important can't be changed in a 6 months timeframe, we were told. There are 8 full months to improve Hsss, and we are still totally denied that option ! During that time, an important change is made with the palace guards (minor characters) : they plan to change the boots, and this only 4 MONTHS before they are released (which goes to say the "6 months limit" thing is just BS). Yes, I know, the boots that will replace the original ones are already sculpted, there's already a mold for them. Nevertheless, that's a bit more of a change than the flocking on Moss Man's ears. Hsss is an A-list character... yet, there seems to be no concern from the firm whatsoever.

    There is one important question that begs to be asked : WHEN will we see the finished, non-prototype snake part of Hsss (with hinged jaw for the central snake etc.) ? Hopefully BEFORE we enter the 6 months time limit...

    All in all, to me, MOTUC King Hsss's hydra part appears so far to be a failure. It truly doesn't have to be so, since there's still PLENTY of time for Mattel and the 4 Horsemen to improve it...
    Last edited by Spectror; August 6, 2010 at 02:52pm.

  20. #20
    Fudge Supreme Dynamo of Eternia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    Not Battle Cat. You had to look pretty hard to find any complaints about him.
    The only issue I have with MOTUC Battle Cat is that on many of them, the head is too heavy for the up and down neck articulation and it keeps falling back down on it's own. I've heard of several people having this problem, and both of the Battle Cats that I opened had this issue. Someone else gave me some advice on how to keep the head up using some of the clear rubber bands, so that is what I am doing for now.

    Other than that, it is a great figure.


    I'm pretty fair about Hsss. I like the human form, but that snake form still looks as if it had to accommodate a human disguise like the original figure. He doesn't have those limitations in this line, but he was sculpted as though he still had them.
    Yeah, I agree on the Snake form. While I do think that it looks better than the snake form of the original figure or the 200X figure, it still doesn't look as good as it should, and does give the impression that it's being limited to accomodate the human body going over it.


    And on a separate note, Earl Norem rules!
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  21. #21
    Bashasaurus Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectror View Post
    While Hsss's human form seems to be perfect (and please note I said SEEMS - we still have to check the finished product), the snake part of MOTUC Hsss is absolutely underwhelming ("based on the 80's version" ? Yeah, right... even the 80's version had more snakes than this one does !) . MOTUC Hsss has wimpy, "anorexic" snakes, where I'd have liked something bigger and more menacing (think "anaconda" or "hydra" instead of underfed baby coral snakes). Bigger and more menacing was definitely a possibility, since there wasn't the limitation of the 80's "torso-shell" to deal with... Also, the fangs should be a tiny bit more realistic, like say 200x Kobra Khan or Rattlor (there again, the 4 Horsemen picked up the exact replica of the 80's central head, while there was no reason to choose that particular "rabbit teeth" limitation).
    I saw the figure in persone and very close, I even got to touch it and I have no problem with how the snakes look.

    I'm happy there will be AT LEAST one hinged haw (for the central head).
    I don't know where you guys have read that. I have missed that bit of info maybe?

    Still, it's far from being enough. They should have done just the same for the arms (the only 200x Hsss choice that I think was cool was the hinged jaws).
    it's probably impossible to do with the soft rubber used for the bendable parts

    The main problem is the "bendy" thing. There's already a confusion possible, since apparently "bendy" and "bendable" wouldn't be the same thing !? Maybe "bendy" means even less "poseable" than "bendable" ??? More confusing terminology from Mattel, for sure.
    I don't see any confusion, I have to admit I think fans are making it sounding more confused than it is. It's bendable, soft rubber with metal wires inside.
    Anyway... I was hoping at the very least for an "up/down" arm articulation, like the 80's Hiss or the 200x Hsss had.
    You can't do that with bedable parts. The figure should be completely changed and then you'd be stuck with the snake arms in whatever postion they are. Plus, more articulation means more pieces. And more pieces means more cost. It's very possible that Kign Hiss is affordable as the Snake torso is just one piece.

    I don't agree about the fact that "bendable" is a decent "articulation". Bendable means metal wires inside the plastic. These can oxydate and give some coloration to the plastic. They can also snap - especially if the so-called "bendable articulation" is used too often - and pierce the plastic. Being a collector for more than 26 years, I know how lame bendable figures are,
    All this is true, but this aren't figure meant to be played with for a long time. The odds of the snakes snapping pretty soon seems remote to me

    and I sure hope that's not the option that was chosen for Hsss (unfortunately, it seems likely it was).
    I don't know where your hope comes from my friend, as it has already been clearly stated that's how the figure will be articulated.

    We were introduced with a PROTOTYPE, at SDCC. That prototype had been finished only 2 days before the show. This definitely gives the feeling that the snake part was "rushed". Yet, we are told that the sculpt is "FINAL" ! Does it mean the definition of an adult collector line's quality and excellence, for Mattel, is the word "rushed" !?
    I'm sorry but you're wrong.
    First, the figure wasn't finished 2 days before the Con.
    All the figures revealed at the con had been completed and shipped to Mattel at least a week before the Con. There was no rush.

    There is one important question that begs to be asked : WHEN will we see the finished, non-prototype snake part of Hsss (with hinged jaw for the central snake etc.) ? Hopefully BEFORE we enter the 6 months time limit...
    Spectror, do you realize that the moment you see the finished figure there is no more chance of changing it, because the molds have been created?!?
    How do you guys think this works?
    This is the finished sculpt. Very little change when the molds are created. and once the molds are created and you see a product sample, that's the final figure, no more changes that aren't paint applications or minor stuff like that.

    All in all, to me, MOTUC King Hsss's hydra part appears so far to be a failure. It truly doesn't have to be so, since there's still PLENTY of time for Mattel and the 4 Horsemen to improve it...
    No offense Spectror, but it appears to be a failure to you. I'm totally happy with it

  22. #22
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
    I don't know where you guys have read that. I have missed that bit of info maybe?
    It's true. Toyguru has been answering some mattycollector.com questions while you were away.

    http://forums.mattycollector.com/eve...5/m/6321074936
    Last edited by MegaGearMax; August 6, 2010 at 04:10pm.

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  23. #23
    Bashasaurus Emiliano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    It's true. Toyguru has been answering some mattycollector.com questions while you were away.

    http://forums.mattycollector.com/eve...5/m/6321074936
    Ahhh, good to know, I had missed that,
    That is even better then!

  24. #24
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    As for King Hsss...Figures.com had a post SDCC interview with Toyguru, where it was revealed that King Hsss was finished only two days prior.

    http://www.figures.com/forums/news/1...a-toyguru.html

    Figures.com: Tell us a little about the Masters of the Universe Classics. You have some really great showings this year and there is a lot of potential for the all-in Club Eternia subscription for 2011. We are however curious to know why there wasn't a larger amount of reveals given the fact there such a buy-in on the new subscription which will be a lot more costly next year?

    ToyGuru:
    Because the Horsemen can only sculpt so much at once. They just finished the King Hsss figure two days before the show.
    Alot of stuff you might have missed is posted up on the first page of the Toyguru Summer News Thread. Toyguru has been pretty busy earlier this week answering questions. He usually answers alot during the weekends.
    Last edited by MegaGearMax; August 6, 2010 at 04:15pm.

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  25. #25
    Heroic Warrior Mern-Ra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    The sculpt on the human form is marvelous. Yeah, but that snake form looks so lackluster to alot of fans. The Earl Norem art is something that's definitely the vintage King Hsss, but IMO, far better than the original toy snake form--or at least the snake form that MOTUC tries to emulate.

    This is what they've should have made in the first place. Well, we can't get it with THIS King Hsss, but maybe with his 200X counterpart...IF Mattel is open to doing this.

    It's a classic example of how Classics can get too vintage, when it ports over the 80's limitations of King Hsss. The vintage King Hsss looked the way he did because those snakes had to fit into an action feature. Now those limitations holding the sculpt back are gone, but the sculpt is as if those limitations are still in place. It's akin to keeping Kobra Khan or Leech's mouth's wide open or keeping Mantenna's legs all merged together.
    Actually, that picture pretty much IS the sculpt we're getting, minus two snakes.
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