The originals aren't bad. The fans love the characters. However, as soon as we got a new "improved" design for them, some fans liked those over the original design...for the most part. As great as the 4H are, they DID improve upon something that was originally there to begin with.
You MIGHT be seeing angry fans with rather hasty words, Emilliano. Knee jerk reactions. Toyguru's news this morning has "fighting words written all over it" and people are talking ALL OVER about this.There simply isn't such a comparison, and I always found silly to try to make one
I'm not trying to diminish 200x line merits by any means
I just can't understand why tnis merits automatically transform the original figures in cheap and lame piece of plastic.
They 200x line wouln'd even exist. Why I need to be reminded the 200x is superior, when I'm just reminding people MOTU exists because there is an original line?
(and to be completely honest. the 200x line was very cheap. The sculpts were superb, but with the 200x technology, the figure could have been much better (more paint ops, more articulation) but Mattel went cheap on them)
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What we are saying is that we prefer some of the newer head designs over older designs, especially where the older heads are looking quite strange or goofy (I am looking at you, Rattlor!) Is this some kind of blasphemy?
Of all the figures to date and the ones that have been revealed...I'm most disappointed with Roboto's head. Maybe that will change once I have him in hand but that is the one that clearly (no pun intended) should've put the gears in motion for a 200x head (ok, that one was intended).
Skeletor's head ranks up there too...heck, look at our emoticons... Even they have a better "hood" than Skeletor. Also, an open mouth version would be cool too.
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When Alessandra showed me the posts over Mattys' forum this morning, while the site was down, I was like "geez, this is going to be awful when the forum is back up"
You guys also need to keep in mind that me or Val can't surely add to the hanger here, even if we completely agree with you guys.
We can't add to the fire, it would just not be responsible for people like us. But it doesn't mean we don't share the frustration or agree with Mattel's decisions.
I decided to post because I just love MOTU so much and I have an hard time at seeing my old beloved toys dismissed so easly when they are so important.
And tryign to stay on topic, I'm not particulary disappointed with Grizzlor's missing second face.
We know accessories get cut all the time. Figures remain unreleased, etc.
It always happened: budgets get cut, entire lines close, etc.
He-Ro, Eldor and Gyrattacker come to mind just speaking about MOTU,
In the industry, that's just normal. I can be disappointed as a fan, but I do understand.
On the other hand, I don't understand the other decision to completely rule out second, more 200x heads. Fan loves them. Fans buy extra figures because of that (I do!). They were just extra money for Mattel's pocket.
Mattel managment decision seems to tell us they still believe the problem with that line were the "hyper anime details" (and keep in mind that the little anime flavor was forced on the 4H by Mattel itself).
While we all know too well that the line failure has nothing to do with the sculpting style, but more with a series of bad decisions and mismanagment.
I get it- it is the same property- I don't deny MOTU success in the past- I didn't care for how the creative teams at the time choose to express that property. THAT IS NOT HATE. That doesn't mean I think the artists and writers of that made the orginal sucked- I just don't care for their work in that instance.
Hate would be how I feel towards Bayformesr compared to the rest of the Transformers incarnations. I'm my reality Bayformers doesn't exist. That is because Bayformer's are soo off the mark of what I love Transformers for, it is like it is another property.
What I do hate is how upper management at Mattel is seemingly trying to erase all reference to 200x as much a possible. I get the Classics like primary design style is inspired by the vintage line. I just don't get why a few heads or weapons are such deal breakers for them.
Last edited by Steph; August 14, 2010 at 02:47pm.
Leech would be a great character to get a second head since his original head was an "action feature" and I think doing both would be keen.
I'm so sorry that that PR shot of Grizzlor went to press. Sometimes these things happen. The same thing happened with Batman Beyond's wings and Wonder Woman's spear. Many times the Horsemen sculpt extra parts we don't request that we simply can not tool for a variety of reasons. Our tooling budget is set for the full year and we work out very carefully figure by figure what we can do early on to keep things in check logistically.
Because magazines need images very early, the sculpt images are sometimes sent out which do not always reflect the final tool'd parts. I regret when things like this happens, but at the end of the day we did show Grizzlor in full at SDCC. I totally get the frustration. That is why I am trying to jump on the boards now to clarify exactly what will be in the Grizzlor package before it goes any further. Grizzlor will be exactly what was shown a SDCC.
And again, we will still do second heads when there is a compelling reason. We just are not going to do a second head purely as a nod to the 200X style since that style is retired.
You will still see 200X characters (like Carnivus) and 200X elements (like Webstor's legs) but all in the Classics style. This line is about the "Classics" look. The 200X look is retired.
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so they are keeping motu classics classic. fine with me, that is what i like best. they have done an excellent job with that so far. teh best lien ever imo.
Last edited by MANGLORD; August 14, 2010 at 03:03pm.
MANGLORD'S most wanted MOTUC, GWILDOR and the rest of the 87ers.
There may come a time when we do 200X style character again, but not in the current Classics line since this line is about the Classics look.
Right now the 200X hyper detail anime style is retired. It doesn't mean it is retired forever, but it is for the foreseeable future. Anything can happen in time. Especially if there is new entertainment.
I think most of us are just saying there a few figures we would really like to have 200X heads for. For a few figures, and I'm thinking mainly Buzz Off and Roboto here, the 200X head just have a nice aesthetic. The wierd vampire-smile look for Buzz Off and the duck bill on Roboto just don't come off very well in my opinion, and the 200X heads would be a very welcome display option. For those that like the original style heads for those figures, more power to you, you can display them that way, and it won't hurt anything for the 200X style heads to be included. I still think however, that when the 200X style was significant departure from the vintage, the 200X head should then be included for those that find it more aesthetically pleasing. After all, we are buying these figures to look at and display, so I can't think of single reason to include a second head that is more compelling than aesthetics.
There are times when I really don't envy ToyGuru's job...
The hyper detailed "spawn" style that seems to be the Horsemen's preferred sculpting style really has nothing to do with the smooth streamlined look of most anime. It an oxymoron. And infuriating to fans of such styles.
It still sucks a little though, because we were shown thee extra face for Grizzlor, even though it did nothing for me. 200X appearance of the characters were a focus group inspired line anyway and I got excited by the Classics line when I saw the updated prototype He-Man the 4HM showed off to garner interest. As this was the definitive He-Man line I've been waiting for. 200X touches are cool, but I was looking at this line as a redone vintage toyline not a second wind for 200X. Before I get a huge backlash from 200X fanboys, I believe it has a place in the classics line, but every character does not need to be Classicsized to make them a great character; i.e. Mer-Man, Scareglow and Battle Cat. Original 200X characters are fully welcome by me as are the minor touches to characters by way of accessories and design choice.
As some others have stated, the packaging at SDCC argument is a little weak since sometimes some accessories are skewed from view by the packaging. I know that normally the extra heads are in view, but exceptions do happen, and in Grizzlor's case it was just a face plate, not a full head.
Well, I do not envy you right now (and can sympathize to an extent) over having to take the brunt of this frustration of the fans when you are communicating something that was decided over your head.I know...everyone should have my problems.
It's part of the job, but an unpleasant one. While not exactly the same thing, I work in a rather large office building and I get to communicate various things to everyone in the building (usually via email) that are mostly handed down from over my head and that I have little to no say in changing, and get all kinds of fun "responses" for the less popular things.
So, while it's not anywhere NEAR the level of what you have to deal with, I can relate to a certain extent.
But none the less, I am expressing my disappointment here (and I know it's not your fault, so don't take it personally).
But, if those two are loopholes, then I ask/request this.... even if you can't release the 200X Grizzlor faceplace (which pretty much looks just like the staction face, with the yellow boarder going around it and all), perhaps upon some future re-release, since it's probably too late to get it into this first release, an additional faceplate could be included with a more vicious looking face? I know he looks kind of mean in the existing face design, but it's in sort of a "cuddly" way (especially with his poofy fur, etc). A meaner face option would be cool.
So maybe this could be sort of a future loophole? An extra head that isn't 100% 200X, but perhaps takes the basic, rough concepts of some features that went into the 200X heads/faces and apply them to this (which, to me, seems to be what Mossman's extra head would qualify as).
I'm also worried about Clawful as well.
And I agree on the packaging argument as well. We don't know if the item is hidden, or if that is even the "final" packaging. Since early packaged pieces like that are just early production samples, things could change by the time we get the figure.
However, I will say this. While I grew up with the 80s line, and it was very much awesome for what is was then (and in many ways still is), there are certain things that I didn't care for even back then, and that upon being redesigned for 200X, I liked a lot better.
Let's take Whiplash for example. I did have the figure as part of my collection as a kid, and he was alright, but he wasn't anywhere near being amongst my favorite evil warriors. There was just something about his overall look that I just didn't care for.. I really didn't like his face for some reason. And I never considered him one of Skeletor's "core" evil warriors.
Then when 200X was starting up (before the cartoon even aired), and the initial 2-ups were revealed and Whiplash was amongst them... when I saw his redesign, I couldn't believe my eyes. I LOVED that redesign! (and still do). There was something about the way he looked that made me think "that's how he should have looked all along!" So when I saw that we were at least getting a 200X head included with the MOTUC figure, I was happy. And there are a few other characters that I was hoping would get the same treatment down the road, but it looks like it won't happen.
Another character that never looked right to me even as a kid, and that was never a "core" part of of Skeletor's warriors in my eyes (he was part of them, but he was at the bottom of the todem-pole). There was something about the look of the classic toy that always bugged me. The thing is that he doesn't really look as much like a mutant-crab creature as he should. With his arms and body having a regular human skin tone, he looked more like a guy wearing crab-armor. His head always looked odd to me, and when someone recently posted (in some thread around here) that his original head looked like a Mexican-Wrestler mask, I found that to be the PERFECT description for what it looked like.
Then I saw the 200X redesign. And much like Whiplash, I was really happy with it. I wasn't thrilled with both of them being portrayed as the overly-dumb, brute-force hentchmen on the 200X show, but I was otherwise okay with them being part of Skeletor's "core" henchmean/mutants on the show from the get go based on their new designs.
So, this now worried me as to what we will be getting when Clawful comes out.
And regarding Grizzlor, while I grew up with the original toy, he did then (and the new figure now does) look a little too much like a 'poof-ball'. I thought that with the 200X staction, they did a great job of giving him fur, but keeping the basic shape of his body intact. Even if they didn't want "hyper anime detail", they could have applied this to the new figure and it would have been fine. Additionally, the one face that we are getting, while "mean", just looks too much like it came out of a coloring book for 3-year olds to me.
It was less than 24 hours ago (heck, maybe just a little over 12 or 13 hours ago as of the time I am writing this) that I saw that Toyfare picture with the 200X face, and got REALLY excited. And now I read this and find out it's not happening. I was excited not so much because it was specifically 200X, but because it had more of a 'vicious' look. If the one faceplate that we are getting, while still holding roughly true to Grizzlor's original look, had more of a viciousness to it, then I wouldn't be quite as disappointed over the lack of the 200X face being included.
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Moss Man's head was not based on the 200X design, it was a non angry version of the vintage head. The only figure that really had a true 200X style head as a second head was Whiplash. So we aren't really breaking a trend. We've only had one example of this so far.