No more 200x style extra heads???...

[MegaGearMax]

Exactly, and more so I don't get the poiny Tim. Does that makes thing from the past bad?
It's like you're fighting me to prove originals are weak and 200x are superior.

I'm not fighting you.

The originals aren't bad. The fans love the characters. However, as soon as we got a new "improved" design for them, some fans liked those over the original design...for the most part. As great as the 4H are, they DID improve upon something that was originally there to begin with.

There simply isn't such a comparison, and I always found silly to try to make one
I'm not trying to diminish 200x line merits by any means
I just can't understand why tnis merits automatically transform the original figures in cheap and lame piece of plastic.
They 200x line wouln'd even exist. Why I need to be reminded the 200x is superior, when I'm just reminding people MOTU exists because there is an original line?
(and to be completely honest. the 200x line was very cheap. The sculpts were superb, but with the 200x technology, the figure could have been much better (more paint ops, more articulation) but Mattel went cheap on them)

You MIGHT be seeing angry fans with rather hasty words, Emilliano. Knee jerk reactions. Toyguru's news this morning has "fighting words written all over it" and people are talking ALL OVER about this.

[Crow]

Yeah, right?

Mer-Man
Moss Man
She-Ra
Trap Jaw

And thats not including full-body hyper anime characters like Marzo, Carnivous, and Keldor.

Mer Man and She-Ra didn't have 200X inspired heads. Mer Man had the one that was classic and the one head that was featured on the 8 back packaging and in the mini comics. She-Ra's heads were her classic head and the "design bible"/Filmation head. Sure, Trap Jaw had the Kronis head and we have Keldor but Toyguru did state that we would still get 200X characters/designs but in the classics style. Reading FTW!

[Irian]

Sure you can be a fan of the new stuff, but hate the older?

Emiliano, where did you get this from that anybody here (except maybe one person) hates the original toys?!

What we are saying is that we prefer some of the newer head designs over older designs, especially where the older heads are looking quite strange or goofy (I am looking at you, Rattlor!) Is this some kind of blasphemy?

[WDWFreak53]

Of all the figures to date and the ones that have been revealed...I'm most disappointed with Roboto's head. Maybe that will change once I have him in hand but that is the one that clearly (no pun intended) should've put the gears in motion for a 200x head (ok, that one was intended).

Skeletor's head ranks up there too...heck, look at our emoticons... Even they have a better "hood" than Skeletor. Also, an open mouth version would be cool too.

[Battle_Brak]

I may not like Michelangelo. But can I say the Sistine Chapel is junk? Surely not, I'd be insane at saying that.

I think you're an awesome guy Emiliano, but did you just compare X-Men and MOTU to Michelangelo? I have to agree with Steph on this one. I personally love Claremont's and Morrison's runs on X-Men, but the rest of it ranges from mediocre to terrible to me. Likewise in MOTU I like the mini comics, MYP, and I love the MVC comics, but I can't stand Filmation regardless of the impact it had on the franchise. I would also agree with others that the classic toyline was cheap compared to other contemporary toylines.

[Sabretooth]

Whether 200X was "better" or "worse" isn't even the issue here, the issue is that Mattel is going back on their word that this line is all inclusive. The reason I bought a subscription is because I loved the idea that all of MOTU was being combined into one thing, but now they're just deepening the schism for seemingly no reason other than being embarrassed of their own mishandling of the 200X line (which is in turn causing them to mishandle this line).

Completely agree. This 200X vs. vintage topic belongs to another thread. This is about no more 200X heads in MOTUC.

[Sandman]

Guys, are you remembering history? MOTU was big. Was a giant phenomen. It sold billions of toys, it changed the Action Figure market!

I'm certainly not debating that. MOTU did not really "stick around" the way many other franchises from the 80's did, though.It's certainly in the top 10 during its heyday, but it also ended very abruptly in 1987, leading into New Adventures, and then a decade of silence, and then MYP, and then another decade of silence...

[Emiliano]

You MIGHT be seeing angry fans with rather hasty words, Emilliano. Knee jerk reactions. Toyguru's news this morning has "fighting words written all over it" and people are talking ALL OVER about this.

Oh, I totally hear you there!
When Alessandra showed me the posts over Mattys' forum this morning, while the site was down, I was like "geez, this is going to be awful when the forum is back up"
You guys also need to keep in mind that me or Val can't surely add to the hanger here, even if we completely agree with you guys.
We can't add to the fire, it would just not be responsible for people like us. But it doesn't mean we don't share the frustration or agree with Mattel's decisions.
I decided to post because I just love MOTU so much and I have an hard time at seeing my old beloved toys dismissed so easly when they are so important.

And tryign to stay on topic, I'm not particulary disappointed with Grizzlor's missing second face.
We know accessories get cut all the time. Figures remain unreleased, etc.
It always happened: budgets get cut, entire lines close, etc.
He-Ro, Eldor and Gyrattacker come to mind just speaking about MOTU,
In the industry, that's just normal. I can be disappointed as a fan, but I do understand.

On the other hand, I don't understand the other decision to completely rule out second, more 200x heads. Fan loves them. Fans buy extra figures because of that (I do!). They were just extra money for Mattel's pocket.
Mattel managment decision seems to tell us they still believe the problem with that line were the "hyper anime details" (and keep in mind that the little anime flavor was forced on the 4H by Mattel itself).
While we all know too well that the line failure has nothing to do with the sculpting style, but more with a series of bad decisions and mismanagment.

[Steph]

And I don'ìt get yours, no offense
Sure you can be a fan of the new stuff, but hate the older? it just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't hate the older incarnation- I don't care for it. It is not a black and white preference that one is superior and the other is junk. Again it is a style preference.

I get it- it is the same property- I don't deny MOTU success in the past- I didn't care for how the creative teams at the time choose to express that property. THAT IS NOT HATE. That doesn't mean I think the artists and writers of that made the orginal sucked- I just don't care for their work in that instance.

Hate would be how I feel towards Bayformesr compared to the rest of the Transformers incarnations. I'm my reality Bayformers doesn't exist. That is because Bayformer's are soo off the mark of what I love Transformers for, it is like it is another property.

What I do hate is how upper management at Mattel is seemingly trying to erase all reference to 200x as much a possible. I get the Classics like primary design style is inspired by the vintage line. I just don't get why a few heads or weapons are such deal breakers for them.

[Tallstar]

Why bother looking forward to certain characters, when we know exactly what will be included now? Part of the mystique has been taken away.

There's still some surprises to be had. Leech, for example, is (imo) an obvious candidate for a second head. So even though they won't be looking to the staction for influence, it's still gonna be a surprise as to how the 4H choose to classic-ize the second head.

[DemoMan]

I read stuff like: "all these lame, cheap figures I remember from my childhood" or "cheesy 1980's designs" and I keep wondering what some of you guys liked about MOTU in first place.
That's thwo the characters were born. If you hated them so much, how did you became a fan of MOTU?

When I was 7, a smiling bee man with vampire fangs was cool. I didn't know any better. As an adult, in an adult collector line, I expect the designs to be a little more sophisticated.

[Toyguru]

Leech would be a great character to get a second head since his original head was an "action feature" and I think doing both would be keen.

I'm so sorry that that PR shot of Grizzlor went to press. Sometimes these things happen. The same thing happened with Batman Beyond's wings and Wonder Woman's spear. Many times the Horsemen sculpt extra parts we don't request that we simply can not tool for a variety of reasons. Our tooling budget is set for the full year and we work out very carefully figure by figure what we can do early on to keep things in check logistically.

Because magazines need images very early, the sculpt images are sometimes sent out which do not always reflect the final tool'd parts. I regret when things like this happens, but at the end of the day we did show Grizzlor in full at SDCC. I totally get the frustration. That is why I am trying to jump on the boards now to clarify exactly what will be in the Grizzlor package before it goes any further. Grizzlor will be exactly what was shown a SDCC.

And again, we will still do second heads when there is a compelling reason. We just are not going to do a second head purely as a nod to the 200X style since that style is retired.

You will still see 200X characters (like Carnivus) and 200X elements (like Webstor's legs) but all in the Classics style. This line is about the "Classics" look. The 200X look is retired.

Scott

[Ealo]

Now that those fans are adults, their tastes have evolved. With 200X, MOTU grew up along with us, re-imagining those classic figures that we loved as kids for our now adult sensibilities.

i thought the 200x figures were aimed at kids and not at all at adults.

[adam03]

Whether 200X was "better" or "worse" isn't even the issue here, the issue is that Mattel is going back on their word that this line is all inclusive. The reason I bought a subscription is because I loved the idea that all of MOTU was being combined into one thing, but now they're just deepening the schism for seemingly no reason other than being embarrassed of their own mishandling of the 200X line (which is in turn causing them to mishandle this line).

How are they going back on their word? they are including 200X, do you even read the bios? MOTUC`s are the 200X story merged with the classic designs with a few little flavors added here and there. To say that Mattel lied is obsurd, they have stated right from the very beginning that the 200X style is retired and that inlcudes extra heads. Why is this so hard to get? it isn`t logistics we`re talking here

[Toyguru]

How are they going back on their word? they are including 200X, do you even read the bios? MOTUC`s are the 200X story merged with the classic designs with a few little flavors added here and there. To say that Mattel lied is obsurd, they have stated right from the very beginning that the 200X style is retired and that inlcudes extra heads. Why is this so hard to get? it isn`t logistics we`re talking here

Well said.

[MANGLORD]

so they are keeping motu classics classic. fine with me, that is what i like best. they have done an excellent job with that so far. teh best lien ever imo.

[Toyguru]

There may come a time when we do 200X style character again, but not in the current Classics line since this line is about the Classics look.

Right now the 200X hyper detail anime style is retired. It doesn't mean it is retired forever, but it is for the foreseeable future. Anything can happen in time. Especially if there is new entertainment.

[SSj3 Derek]

I think most of us are just saying there a few figures we would really like to have 200X heads for. For a few figures, and I'm thinking mainly Buzz Off and Roboto here, the 200X head just have a nice aesthetic. The wierd vampire-smile look for Buzz Off and the duck bill on Roboto just don't come off very well in my opinion, and the 200X heads would be a very welcome display option. For those that like the original style heads for those figures, more power to you, you can display them that way, and it won't hurt anything for the 200X style heads to be included. I still think however, that when the 200X style was significant departure from the vintage, the 200X head should then be included for those that find it more aesthetically pleasing. After all, we are buying these figures to look at and display, so I can't think of single reason to include a second head that is more compelling than aesthetics.

Leech would be a great character to get a second head since his original head was an "action feature" and I think doing both would be keen.

I'm so sorry that that PR shot of Grizzlor went to press. Sometimes these things happen. The same thing happened with Batman Beyond's wings and Wonder Woman's spear. Many times the Horsemen sculpt extra parts we don't request that we simply can not tool for a variety of reasons. Our tooling budget is set for the full year and we work out very carefully figure by figure what we can do early on to keep things in check logistically.

Because magazines need images very early, the sculpt images are sometimes sent out which do not always reflect the final tool'd parts. I regret when things like this happens, but at the end of the day we did show Grizzlor in full at SDCC. I totally get the frustration. That is why I am trying to jump on the boards now to clarify exactly what will be in the Grizzlor package before it goes any further. Grizzlor will be exactly what was shown a SDCC.

And again, we will still do second heads when there is a compelling reason. We just are not going to do a second head purely as a nod to the 200X style since that style is retired.

You will still see 200X characters (like Carnivus) and 200X elements (like Webstor's legs) but all in the Classics style. This line is about the "Classics" look. The 200X look is retired.

Scott

[zodak74]

There are times when I really don't envy ToyGuru's job...

[Steph]

Right now the 200X hyper detail anime style is retired.

Since you are reading this thread, could you seriously come up new way to describe what Mattel dislikes about the 200x line.

The hyper detailed "spawn" style that seems to be the Horsemen's preferred sculpting style really has nothing to do with the smooth streamlined look of most anime. It an oxymoron. And infuriating to fans of such styles.

[kagamigod]

It still sucks a little though, because we were shown thee extra face for Grizzlor, even though it did nothing for me. 200X appearance of the characters were a focus group inspired line anyway and I got excited by the Classics line when I saw the updated prototype He-Man the 4HM showed off to garner interest. As this was the definitive He-Man line I've been waiting for. 200X touches are cool, but I was looking at this line as a redone vintage toyline not a second wind for 200X. Before I get a huge backlash from 200X fanboys, I believe it has a place in the classics line, but every character does not need to be Classicsized to make them a great character; i.e. Mer-Man, Scareglow and Battle Cat. Original 200X characters are fully welcome by me as are the minor touches to characters by way of accessories and design choice.

[Whiplash7]

There's still some surprises to be had. Leech, for example, is (imo) an obvious candidate for a second head. So even though they won't be looking to the staction for influence, it's still gonna be a surprise as to how the 4H choose to classic-ize the second head.

True, there will be others like that I'm sure. In all honesty no one should be surprised at how the figures look at this point. While I liked them, I noticed a lot of surprise/disappointment over how vintage Roboto and Buzz-Off looked. No one should have been surprised, but I can understand how people might have expected some modern elements. I like Buzz-Off's headsculpt, but I can understand those who wanted a 2002 head. In his case it would have made perfect sense. But now, for some figures, there will be less mystery and disussion about how they may look.

Leech would be a great character to get a second head since his original head was an "action feature" and I think doing both would be keen.

I'm so sorry that that PR shot of Grizzlor went to press. Sometimes these things happen. The same thing happened with Batman Beyond's wings and Wonder Woman's spear. Many times the Horsemen sculpt extra parts we don't request that we simply can not tool for a variety of reasons. Our tooling budget is set for the full year and we work out very carefully figure by figure what we can do early on to keep things in check logistically.

Because magazines need images very early, the sculpt images are sometimes sent out which do not always reflect the final tool'd parts. I regret when things like this happens, but at the end of the day we did show Grizzlor in full at SDCC. I totally get the frustration. That is why I am trying to jump on the boards now to clarify exactly what will be in the Grizzlor package before it goes any further. Grizzlor will be exactly what was shown a SDCC.

And again, we will still do second heads when there is a compelling reason. We just are not going to do a second head purely as a nod to the 200X style since that style is retired.

You will still see 200X characters (like Carnivus) and 200X elements (like Webstor's legs) but all in the Classics style. This line is about the "Classics" look. The 200X look is retired.

Scott

Thanks for explaining everything. I love the 200x elements that have been added here and there, it's made it fun and some of the extra heads have been great for changing up the display from time to time. I've switched back and forth b/w vintage and modern Moss Man many times, lol. I'll likely do the same with Whiplash, it's a shame there won't be much more of that though in terms of the heads.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

You are still going to get plenty of extra heads. Just not ones where the head is done only as a 200X look like Whiplash.

Also, Grizzlor was shown in package at SDCC. There is no second face. As mentioned earlier, the Horsemen often sculpt extra heads. The image in Toy Fare was of the Horsemen's sculpt but we never tool'd the second head.

The Grizzlor thing REALLY disappoints me because someone just showed me the Toyfare issue last night with that picture in it, which excited me, but then I get online today and find this out.

As some others have stated, the packaging at SDCC argument is a little weak since sometimes some accessories are skewed from view by the packaging. I know that normally the extra heads are in view, but exceptions do happen, and in Grizzlor's case it was just a face plate, not a full head.

I know...everyone should have my problems.

Well, I do not envy you right now (and can sympathize to an extent) over having to take the brunt of this frustration of the fans when you are communicating something that was decided over your head.

It's part of the job, but an unpleasant one. While not exactly the same thing, I work in a rather large office building and I get to communicate various things to everyone in the building (usually via email) that are mostly handed down from over my head and that I have little to no say in changing, and get all kinds of fun "responses" for the less popular things.
So, while it's not anywhere NEAR the level of what you have to deal with, I can relate to a certain extent.

But none the less, I am expressing my disappointment here (and I know it's not your fault, so don't take it personally).

You will still see 200X characters and 200X versions of characters (i.e. Sorceress, Randor) but they will be in "Classics" style, similar to Carnivus or Grayskull (or Marzo minus the flowing hair).

We'll also still do second heads for characters like Moss Man or Stinkor who's vintage head was a repaint. Really, the only character to have a true "200X" head was Whiplash. So there really wasn't a huge trend we are breaking here. A trend of one.

Not that I want to say anything that might prevent other heads that we might still get (i.e. Stinkor) from happening, but technically wasn't Mossman's extra head 200X inspired? And wouldn't Stinkor kind of be the same thing?

But, if those two are loopholes, then I ask/request this.... even if you can't release the 200X Grizzlor faceplace (which pretty much looks just like the staction face, with the yellow boarder going around it and all), perhaps upon some future re-release, since it's probably too late to get it into this first release, an additional faceplate could be included with a more vicious looking face? I know he looks kind of mean in the existing face design, but it's in sort of a "cuddly" way (especially with his poofy fur, etc). A meaner face option would be cool.

So maybe this could be sort of a future loophole? An extra head that isn't 100% 200X, but perhaps takes the basic, rough concepts of some features that went into the 200X heads/faces and apply them to this (which, to me, seems to be what Mossman's extra head would qualify as).

Arrrghhh!

It just dawned on me about the heads...some of those 200X heads were leaps and bounds better than the vintage versions.

• Rio Blast
• Tung Lashor
• Snout Spout
• Buzz-Off
• Grizzlor
• Ssqueeze
• Rattlor
• Leech
• Mantenna
• Clamp Champ
• Fisto

Tung Lashor particularly worries me. I really don't want a Tung Lashor with a frog-looking head.

I'm also worried about Clawful as well.

Why does Mattel corporate care so much about the 200x-influence anyway? I realize that the relaunch did not do as well as they hoped, and we can argue all day about why (case ratios, cartoon scheduling...does anyone really know, I think not). Anyway, this line is being purchased only, I would think, by those who grew up with the figures in the 80s and who are basically going to be fans of the property no matter what. It is not as if it is bringing in new fans who have never heard of Masters before or attracting kids to purchase them. Maybe there are a few kids of those who grew up in the 80s who are buying them, but so what? Their fandom has nothing to do with classics but everything to do with the parents of the 80s.

My point is, since the market for these figures is, until a real media push like a movie, diehard collectors anyway, why is it bothering the Mattel executives to include an extra 200x-inspired head when appropriate? And I am thinking specifically in this case of Grizzlor. If the issue partly has to do with cost, why not raise the price of a select few figures each year from $1 to about $5 to help offset it?

I guess it ultimately boils down to the question as to why the officials are so anti-200x. Little additions here and there do not make the figures look too anime anyway. Just confused.

This is a good, logical point. It seems that someone at Mattel is WAY more bothered by this than they should be.

Im not upset that the 2nd Grizzlor faceplate (Lets continue to reiterate the fact it isnt a Full head) isnt included, But I am Furious that Toyfare was allowed to show the pic, what we dont know would never hurt us.

Those pics had to be submitted by Mattel people who knew that the head wasnt in the deal.

And as much as I feel TG is in the middle again, I hafta point out that saying that we saw the packaged Grizzlor at SDCC and there was obviously no head means nothing Because no one got to hold the carded figure and look behind the title insert, assuming we knew it wasnt there is stupid. We couldnt see Kronis's head in package, and cant see Adams vintage head in package.

I am actually disappointed by the extra face not being included, and I agree that if it just hadn't been shown in Toyfare, we wouldn't have this problem now (I find it odd that this couldn't be prevented... even if pictures were sent to Toyfare including that face, couldn't someone have contacted Toyfare before it went to press asking them to edit out the extra face?).

And I agree on the packaging argument as well. We don't know if the item is hidden, or if that is even the "final" packaging. Since early packaged pieces like that are just early production samples, things could change by the time we get the figure.


ka[/QUOTE]

I want to know the answer to this question too.
What the hell? WHAT the hell? WHAT THE hell? WHAT THE HELL IS ANIME HYPER DETAIL?!!??!!

Both heads Whiplash comes with have the same amount of detail as far as I can see!!!!!

Actually, I would almost argue that the vintage head seems to have MORE detail than the 200X head!

I don't want to intterupt the discussion and for sure I understand the frustration (not really abotu Grizzlor face specifically, elements get cut all the time from all the line, there is nothing new there).
I totally hear the fans here.
But still as a long time fan, there are comments I'm really having na hard time at understanding.
I read stuff like: "all these lame, cheap figures I remember from my childhood" or "cheesy 1980's designs" and I keep wondering what some of you guys liked about MOTU in first place.
That's thwo the characters were born. If you hated them so much, how did you became a fan of MOTU?
I really think too many people keep comparing 80's toys with 2000 toys, completely forgetting there are 20 years between them, with all sort of difference in materials, enginering, etc.
The original MOTU weren't at all cheap and lame. They were the first of their kind. They set a standard for all the toys that came after them. They were ground breaking, they sold in millions, they were just the top of their time when the line started.
It really hurts me when fans forget one of the reasons they are here in the first place.

In many ways I agree with you (and I am by far NOT one of the *big* 200X defenders). I have little problem with the shared parts, etc, of this MOTUC line.


However, I will say this. While I grew up with the 80s line, and it was very much awesome for what is was then (and in many ways still is), there are certain things that I didn't care for even back then, and that upon being redesigned for 200X, I liked a lot better.

Let's take Whiplash for example. I did have the figure as part of my collection as a kid, and he was alright, but he wasn't anywhere near being amongst my favorite evil warriors. There was just something about his overall look that I just didn't care for.. I really didn't like his face for some reason. And I never considered him one of Skeletor's "core" evil warriors.

Then when 200X was starting up (before the cartoon even aired), and the initial 2-ups were revealed and Whiplash was amongst them... when I saw his redesign, I couldn't believe my eyes. I LOVED that redesign! (and still do). There was something about the way he looked that made me think "that's how he should have looked all along!" So when I saw that we were at least getting a 200X head included with the MOTUC figure, I was happy. And there are a few other characters that I was hoping would get the same treatment down the road, but it looks like it won't happen.

Another character that never looked right to me even as a kid, and that was never a "core" part of of Skeletor's warriors in my eyes (he was part of them, but he was at the bottom of the todem-pole). There was something about the look of the classic toy that always bugged me. The thing is that he doesn't really look as much like a mutant-crab creature as he should. With his arms and body having a regular human skin tone, he looked more like a guy wearing crab-armor. His head always looked odd to me, and when someone recently posted (in some thread around here) that his original head looked like a Mexican-Wrestler mask, I found that to be the PERFECT description for what it looked like.

Then I saw the 200X redesign. And much like Whiplash, I was really happy with it. I wasn't thrilled with both of them being portrayed as the overly-dumb, brute-force hentchmen on the 200X show, but I was otherwise okay with them being part of Skeletor's "core" henchmean/mutants on the show from the get go based on their new designs.


So, this now worried me as to what we will be getting when Clawful comes out.


And regarding Grizzlor, while I grew up with the original toy, he did then (and the new figure now does) look a little too much like a 'poof-ball'. I thought that with the 200X staction, they did a great job of giving him fur, but keeping the basic shape of his body intact. Even if they didn't want "hyper anime detail", they could have applied this to the new figure and it would have been fine. Additionally, the one face that we are getting, while "mean", just looks too much like it came out of a coloring book for 3-year olds to me.

It was less than 24 hours ago (heck, maybe just a little over 12 or 13 hours ago as of the time I am writing this) that I saw that Toyfare picture with the 200X face, and got REALLY excited. And now I read this and find out it's not happening. I was excited not so much because it was specifically 200X, but because it had more of a 'vicious' look. If the one faceplate that we are getting, while still holding roughly true to Grizzlor's original look, had more of a viciousness to it, then I wouldn't be quite as disappointed over the lack of the 200X face being included.

[Toyguru]

Moss Man's head was not based on the 200X design, it was a non angry version of the vintage head. The only figure that really had a true 200X style head as a second head was Whiplash. So we aren't really breaking a trend. We've only had one example of this so far.

[Sabretooth]

And again, we will still do second heads when there is a compelling reason. We just are not going to do a second head purely as a nod to the 200X style since that style is retired.

And how about a head-pack with classicized MYP heads (Zodak, Buzz-Off, Grizzlor ...etc.)? Is this possible in MOTUC or not? If it is possible how much would such a head-pack be?