MVC Comics - Collected Info About Emiliano's Ideas for the Comic

[oICEMANo]

So who zapped Stratos in those pages?? Hordak?

Val, can you maybe shed some light on this story?

[13977]

So who zapped Stratos in those pages?? Hordak?

I was wondering that as well.
It would be great if we could get a brief narrative of what's going on in these pages, maybe somebody come take them to PowerCon and ask there?

[Darkspecter]

I know this is probably a silly question...but I'm going to ask it anyway!

Who is the Gar female on the council of Elders? She's not "young" Illumina, is she? I'm pretty sure I remember reading a LONG time ago she's a different character...but I did a search and couldn't find anything.

Also, who's the old Gar on the council? Are either of these two related to Illumina or Keldor?

It would also be nice to know the name of Illumina's white cat...please?

While I'm asking questions...Might-Bite...was he ever planned to be in the comics (story line, etc), or just the awesome drawing?

[PanMan]

Wow those pages are awesome!! Can someone put some colour on those?

I know this is probably a silly question...but I'm going to ask it anyway!

Who is the Gar female on the council of Elders? She's not "young" Illumina, is she? I'm pretty sure I remember reading a LONG time ago she's a different character...but I did a search and couldn't find anything.

Also, who's the old Gar on the council? Are either of these two related to Illumina or Keldor?

It would also be nice to know the name of Illumina's white cat...please?

While I'm asking questions...Might-Bite...was he ever planned to be in the comics (story line, etc), or just the awesome drawing?

1) No, Illumina is in the time just before Adam is born and may or may not still be around. The female gar on the council is not related to Keldor but was to be someone of some importance (if I recall, Emiliano said he did not have plans fully developed for her, but he said it is not Keldor's mom or related to him).

2) Not sure who the old Gar is. Again, I don't think it was planned out that far.

3) I believe her cat has a name, but it slips my mind at the moment. I'm sure Emiliano said it in that one thread where he revealed Illumina's name. I'll see if I can find it.

4) I think might bite was just a concept with no plans.


EDIT:

The cat was a female panther (same species as Panthor).
http://www.he-man.org:81/forums/boar...90&postcount=2

http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...&postcount=206

http://santalux.blogspot.com/

And Illumina was not related to Keldor:
http://www.he-man.org:81/forums/boar...7&postcount=52

Also, Might Bite was supposed to be used in the comic at some point:
http://www.he-man.org:81/forums/boar...8&postcount=26


Lastly, this thread is an interesting read:
http://www.he-man.org:81/forums/boar...d.php?t=142200

[13977]

Telkan2 - the above two post's just made me realize you don't have an entry for Might-Bite.

Might-Bite: was to be a commander in The Horde, created by the MVC crew.

http://santalux.blogspot.com/2006/08...ight-bite.html
http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...d.php?t=141057



Telkan2

I was just going to post about the name of Illumina's snowcat being revealed in the .org fan choice figure poll as Sleetah (at least I think it's the first time it been reviled) but I see you've already added it.

[Telkan2]

Telkan2 - the above two post's just made me realize you don't have an entry for Might-Bite.

Might-Bite: was to be a commander in The Horde, created by the MVC crew.

http://santalux.blogspot.com/2006/08...ight-bite.html
http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...d.php?t=141057



Telkan2

I was just going to post about the name of Illumina's snowcat being revealed in the .org fan choice figure poll as Sleetah (at least I think it's the first time it been reviled) but I see you've already added it.

Yup, I sure did--and I thought for sure I had added Might-Bite a while back, but sure enough he's not there. Either I'm dreamin' or I didn't his "Save" after making the changes.

[hlinhk128]

I really dig that Horde Shark. Kind of goes with their theme of movie monsters since Jaws was once of the scariest back in the day.

He also reminds me of a Street Shark I believe was the name, also a Mattel product, if I am not mistaken.

[Vlcan]

It's official. I want Might Bite in the Classics line. Just looks ferocious!!

[13977]

I just wanted to add a summery of some recent posts between myself and Emiliano from the I voted for Illumina thread, that gives us a few more titbits about Illumina and the Guardians of Grayskull.

She wasn't the last member of that generation of GoGs. There were Illumina, Dekker, MAA and at least another one which I'm not revealing yet.
Duncan was the younger of the them and it was his job to recruit the next generation of guardians...
BTW, she was very much alive, but she was stuck in the dark empisphere when the mystic walls were created.
In my story, we'd see her coming back from her exile and join He-Man.

I was going to say I though the other member was Tri-Klops as well but Lookie beat me to it.
I take it Tri-Klops has no memory of being a GoG? and that Dekker and MAA don'y know he was a GoG?

So was Illumina actually going to become a member of the Heroic Warriors upon her return or would she remain a sort of independent GoG?
and why did she wait so long to return after the Mystic wall had be destroyed?

Well, I whish someone had made the connection here and catched where this was going
The question is: King Randor has an army already. Why Duncan (member of this secret society not known even to the king) is assembling this group of "Heroic Warriors"?

Well I think you said it in an earlier post in this thread, Duncan was recruiting the next generation of guardians.

So the Heroic Warriors are...?

The next generation of Guardians

[Eternian Poet]

My post about "Icons of Evil: Mer-Man" seems to have been deleted.

The art-work was lacklustre & uninspired. Really very boring. There seemed to be no thought as to how an under-water kingdom might operate. It was like a surface world but... under water.

The story-line was even worse. Some minor population manage to totally destroy Mermie's underwater empire. Mer-Man's power seems to come from none other than the giant flying fish in 200x toons.

Gosh, it's so awful I honestly threw it in the trash.

Does anyone have any thoughts about Icons: Beastman? Is it just as bad? I'm hoping for something like Icons: Trap-Jaw, which was rather good.

[13977]

My post about "Icons of Evil: Mer-Man" seems to have been deleted.

Looks like it just got moved to the 'Icons of Evil: Mer-Man Official Talk Back' thread here:

http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...t=58351&page=6

[Grayskull's Heir]

Wow, I've only discovered this thread today when I read the Preternia map discussion thread in the MOTUC forums!
Man, this thread is pure awesomeness!
Thanks so much for collecting all this awesome information! I'm really excited right now!

[Jukka]

Thanks Andrew for posting those!
I've seen them a long time ago but forgot about it.

Also I tried sending the artist a note via DA but he hasn't replied back.

[PanMan]

So who zapped Stratos in those pages?? Hordak?

Val, can you maybe shed some light on this story?

Okay, I just sat down and looked at these pages in detail. I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion on them. Here's what I think is going on:

So this seems to be taking place (days/months/years?) prior to the events in the first scenes of MYP's The Beginning. In the first page Captain Randor and the Defenders of Eternia (i.e. RamMan, Mekaneck, Stratos, MAA, Royal Guards, etc) seem to have captured Keldor at Snake Mountain. There seems to be a large army of bad guys on Snake Mountain, as well as possibly some sort of giant or beast creature (it's difficult to tell what's going on at the top of Snake Mountain). There's one goblin in the middle of the page that resembles General Tataran (though it may be just a generic character).

On the second page MAA is trying to reel in Keldor while Randor begins the attack with the army of Goblins. On the third page, Randor and his forces charge up the bridge and enter Snake Mountain. It seems like Randor is determined about something and he disagrees with MAA, leaving him shocked/surprised. MAA has Keldor in tow.

On the fourth page, Randor enters a room that contains the Shakkaran crystal. Stratos flies in and the monster in the crystal (i.e., the Unnamed) attacks him. In the fifth page, as Randor attends to Stratos, there is a massive surge of bad guys running into a portal generated by the Shakkaran crystal. This group seems to include Hordak (as he appeared in SOTS), Grizzlor, a Horde Trooper, maybe Leech, and a few others (one guy looks like Stinkor but I doubt it's him). Stratos is hurt and Randor gets him out of there.

So that's basically what I see from these pages. I'm tired now so I'll hold off on piecing this into the grand story but I'd like to hear what you guys think about this!

[13977]

Okay, I just sat down and looked at these pages in detail. I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion on them. Here's what I think is going on:

So this seems to be taking place (days/months/years?) prior to the events in the first scenes of MYP's The Beginning. In the first page Captain Randor and the Defenders of Eternia (i.e. RamMan, Mekaneck, Stratos, MAA, Royal Guards, etc) seem to have captured Keldor at Snake Mountain. There seems to be a large army of bad guys on Snake Mountain, as well as possibly some sort of giant or beast creature (it's difficult to tell what's going on at the top of Snake Mountain). There's one goblin in the middle of the page that resembles General Tataran (though it may be just a generic character).

On the second page MAA is trying to reel in Keldor while Randor begins the attack with the army of Goblins. On the third page, Randor and his forces charge up the bridge and enter Snake Mountain. It seems like Randor is determined about something and he disagrees with MAA, leaving him shocked/surprised. MAA has Keldor in tow.

On the fourth page, Randor enters a room that contains the Shakkaran crystal. Stratos flies in and the monster in the crystal (i.e., the Unnamed) attacks him. In the fifth page, as Randor attends to Stratos, there is a massive surge of bad guys running into a portal generated by the Shakkaran crystal. This group seems to include Hordak (as he appeared in SOTS), Grizzlor, a Horde Trooper, maybe Leech, and a few others (one guy looks like Stinkor but I doubt it's him). Stratos is hurt and Randor gets him out of there.

So that's basically what I see from these pages. I'm tired now so I'll hold off on piecing this into the grand story but I'd like to hear what you guys think about this!

Wow thats a great description of the pages mate, and I think your probably pretty close. I'd love to get a summary or the story this mini-series was going to tell from Emil or somebody, it would make a great blog entry for your Jukka if we could find out more information

As we know Adora's story was going to be told in this mini-series, I wonder if in these pages Keldor's and possibly Hordak's (if that is Hordak?) forces have just kidnapped Adora and are retreating back to Snake Mountain. Randor's forces are in hot pursuit and have managed to capture Keldor. Hodak? and some evil warriors arrive in the Shakkaran crystal chamber, the Unnamed opens a portal through the Despondos barrier, the evil warriors rush though it with baby Adora.
We also know Prahvus has some thing to do with the kidnapping and I think your right and that is General Tataran in that panel.

[Jukka]

Wow thats a great description of the pages mate, and I think your probably pretty close. I'd love to get a summary or the story this mini-series was going to tell from Emil or somebody, it would make a great blog entry for your Jukka if we could find out more information

It would.

I have sent the artit JJ Kirby a message via DA but haven't heard back at all.

[JVS3]

This was from the 4 issue prequel series written by Marv Wolfman. The other Captain featured on the cover is Captain Gorgon who was a dark skinned Captain for Eternos. And yes, it takes place directly before MYP's The Beginning. The last issue of the prequel series was going to deal with the battle there in the cartoon. I can't share specifics about the story at this time. Sorry.

[oICEMANo]

Is this still a Mattel restriction on MYP stuff??

[Bri-Man]

I have to agree with Val about Skeletor, keep him evil till the end, I don't like the idea of him being redeemable. I like him killing Horde Prime though, just for his own purposes.

I wonder if you can expand on this Emiliano? If you had gone is this direction just what would have been Skeletor's motivation for turning good again? Did he find something out about his past or maybe something to do with Miro or his mother? Also what would make Adam trust him enough to hand him the power sword? Maybe the Sorceress told him he could now be trusted?

i know i'm waaaay late to this discussion, but i thought this was interesting and i thought i'd respond...

skeletor is redeemable because essentially he started down his dark path after becoming a victim of racism. i like to think that keldor himself was just misguided and angry. he didn't truly become full blown evil until becoming skeletor and being bonded with demo-man. basically, he's as evil as he is because he's demon possesed- and it amplifies everything petty and negative within him.

i've always thought that the sorceress knew that he-man would make the unexpected choice- the right choice. he doesn't give skeletor the power sword because skeletor has become good- he gives it to him because he knows it will make him good again. or at the very least leave him in a position where he can be redeemed.

picture it: he-man is nearly defeated. but in that moment of near defeat, he reflects for a moment on what he knows about keldor- the racism he suffered- his possession by the demo-man. he knows that his own family bears some shame in what happened to keldor. the weakened sorceress calls out to him, "you know what you must do!".

to everyone's shock, he-man let's the power of grayskull return- and hands skeletor the sword of power! skeletor savors this moment of triumph. castle grayskull is his, as is the sword. skeletor raises the sword and calls on the power of grayskull...

but instead of increasing his power, the power of grayskull drives the demo-man out of keldor, ripping the two beings apart from one another. keldor is launched backward- he lands hard, in a dazed, semi-conscious state, leaving a rampaging demon that must now be banished or destroyed...

[Scriptor]

I originally posted this in the forum regarding the recent DC comics - but I think on reflection that it may be more relevant here, since it is in effect a paean to the superiority of the MYP comics over the recent aberrations - so I hope that I shall be forgiven for reposting it here, in the hope of provoking discussion.



Here we go again.......

Oh dear. I’d be looking forward to the next part of the series much more if I hadn’t been so disappointed in the last one – which I though, frankly, poor in almost all respects. Even leaving aside the picaresque plot (such as it was) and the pretty average standard of the artwork, the conceptualization, characterization and – above all the writing – seemed to me all deeply flawed. And I’m somewhat at a loss why this had to be so as the framework already existed – but was largely ignored or, worse, altered in ways that added nothing (indeed detracted from) the mythos and made very little sense whatsoever.

You see, I’m a writer – and have been for a several years, and to me, these things do matter. It is incomprehensible why some of the changes were instituted when the canon already provided a higher standard of narrative storytelling by far. It is not merely a knee-jerk reaction against change; it is a strong sense that such changes need to make cogent sense, to create a compelling new vision – and I see no convincing evidence of this here.

When an idea takes flight and captures the wider imagination, then it moves onwards and upwards and acquires a life of its own – becoming in effect a part of folk memory; the Masters may have begun as a toy line, but it has moved ground since then and has become, over a mere thirty years, a mythology capable of standing on its own. The existence of this site and many like it surely proves the point. But this entails a basic responsibility to remain faithful in essence to the material; how far can change go before the original and the new are at odds - and therefore different things entirely?

From this belief stems my innate disappointment – and my hope that things may get better. Can DC really do no better than this? I think that fans deserve better than this – indeed I do. I get the distinct impression (in part from reading the writer’s own view expressed at interview) that the desire to make a splash, to shock, to epater la bourgeoisie was the driving imperative here - and that it overruled all other considerations. And, for that matter, how “new” actually is this approach? I would argue that it may be new to He-Man (though not in a good sense) but it is very far from new in the DC context. What I see here is very familiar old DC ground - and He-Man bent and twisted to fit in with that, rather than any effort being made to adapt to the pre-existing framework. There is a definite lack of understanding and appreciation and I would even go so far as to say that I suspect a certain level of contempt for the Masters canon.

I illustrate my point with a few examples:

He-Man AS The Power . This is patently absurd; the Elders are, in effect, the gods of Eternia and He-Man has been given access to their strength (though not necessarily their wisdom or knowledge.) But that does not make him in person The Power - it really does not. To give the combined powers of an entire pantheon to a mortal man is insanity writ large – and the canon has very carefully avoided falling into this trap. The Power is the equivalent of The Deplorable Word, of Sauron’s Ring, of Promethean Fire – it is patently NOT for mortals to wield. Power corrupts, it consumes those who wield it, it corrodes good intentions and turns inexorably to evil ends. Even leaving this aside (and why would we, since it’s so vital a point?) is it at all wise to give such power to a man who can be killed, or captured or enchanted? Obviously not – suggesting that there was a very good reason why the canon avoided this error; Giffen and Co. might have taken heed of that. Wiser and better informed heads (such as Val Staples) even made the point that He-Man has not been granted all the power of the Elders; their strength but not their wisdom. This makes him – correctly in my view – the servant of a (very demanding) higher power – NOT the Power itself. This has huge implications for the richness of the stories – the ongoing dramatic tension of his dual personality, the burden of wielding the Power, the nature of power itself. He-Man must be depicted as what he actually is; the servant of a higher power, aware of his mortal status, his limitations; able on occasions to draw on yet greater power that comes to him as the embodiment of that power – but certainly NOT that power himself. He may be the most powerful man in the universe – but he remains just that: a man – and subject to the immutable laws of mortality. This leaves him vulnerable (which means, dramatically, that we can identify with him) and it gives him that vital aura of nobility, wisdom and sorrow – the lattermost stemming from the knowledge that evil cannot be just destroyed. All this has been swept aside – by a failure to understand or to care – and this in part explains the flatness of the new stories, their lack of involving depth and complexity. Most of all, nothing has been created in place of what has been lost. The “new” He-Man is thus a shallow creation, shorn of the attributes which rendered him unique. He-Man is not some generic DC superhero with intrinsic powers; he is a far more complex and subtle creation that that – and therein lies his enduring interest and appeal.

The same applies to the significance of Adam – which is simply ignored. Adam has an important dramatic role; ignoring it detracts from the richness of the material available to writers and they do so at their peril. Yes, the basic deception is patently absurd (though the 2002 comics handled it really well) and involves some suspension of disbelief (hey - this is Eternia, after all) but there is more to Adam than this. Adam is the key indentifier, the ‘real’ character – and has an important role in this respect; his innate decency made him fit to be chosen as a hero – and he retains that; and this is vital. Adam protects He-Man from the corrosive effects of wielding the Power. People seem readily to assume that being He-Man is somehow intrinsically wonderful; personally, I very much doubt that it is. Once Adam reluctantly assumed the duty – under pressure to save his father’s life – he also assumed a terrific burden – and one that must come with a human cost. But Adam, not being himself a hero per se, is not easily corrupted – and endures. Note that He-Man cannot remain in that role indefinitely – but must revert to being Adam; this is depicted as even happening sometimes involuntarily, under supreme stress – and he, as Adam, on more than one occasion saves He-Man by being able to escape and resist what He-Man cannot. This duality can lead to tension – sometimes comic and sometimes almost tragic – but invariably significant and conducive to compelling storytelling. And now, yet again, this is swept away – and again – nothing is set in its place; tabula rasa is again the order of the day – and for what good reason?

A He-Man who takes human life is a very fundamental shift – and an unwelcome one. It does not make the “new” He-Man more adult or somehow more fitted to 2013; it diminishes him – renders him just like the rest of the loincloth-wearing sword-slingers. The real and significant point to remember is this: he is so much more skilled and stronger than his foes that he doesn’t need to kill – thereby showing both his moral and military superiority. This is not simply Filmation morality – it is not. It is an appreciative view of He-Man which stresses his astonishing compassion and humanity – which stem from his patent ability to kill – but forbearance in not doing so. In this respect he is an embodiment of the will of the Elders – and that saves him from the fate his enemies would inflict upon him. The essential nature of He-Man is that he is good; how many times has this point been made in every incarnation? How many times has he overcome his enemies – and spared them, respecting the life of all Eternians, even the evil ones who would clearly not do the same for him? Yet, for all their evildoing they cannot conquer him – because of his adherence to this code, which has the Power protect him while he enacts its ultimately benign will. This has been attested and gone unchallenged for thirty years. Are we now to accept that this no longer matters? That good can somehow overcome evil with evil’s weapons – and yet remain good? A thousand times no!

As for it being more ‘realistic’ – well – how far should we really be seeking gritty realism in Eternia, where sorcery mingles seamlessly with technology, where all the women are beautiful, all the men have eight-packs – and no doubt, like Lake Woebegone, all the children are above average? Think in those terms and the apparent demand for a killer He-Man may appear in its due perspective. Besides, it is a fallacy to assume that "real" means only what is real here and now, Earth, 2013 - when it is clear that Eternia has a very different reality - and that this is reflected in its warfare as much as in all its other attributes - such as technology and sorcery existing side by side.
On a personal note, before becoming a writer I spent over ten years as an officer in the Armed Forces – much of the time in combat roles (with all the good and ill that inevitably follows from this) – and I can honestly say that, while a large number of persons of various different nationalities tried to end me with a wide variety of weaponry (including a sword) at no point did anyone ever attempt to blast me with a strike of sorcery! And that experience was adequately real for me to be completely sure that He-Man taking human life is a very immature and retrograde step indeed. Horde troopers, rock monsters, robots – by all means, the more the merrier; but NOT, for him, the violation of the sanctity of human life. Would that I could say the same; but, then, I am not He-Man.

Eliminating the Sorceress for the sake of a shock moment adds what, exactly, to the dramatic potential of the new series? I can see no good reason for it at all – none. The true significance of Castle Grayskull has been swept away with one decapitating stroke of a sword. But nothing has replaced it – only He-Man in person, as the Power (sic) and as the sole link with the Elders (vide supra.) This really does not seem to have been thought-through with any degree of clarity. Perhaps some prior research would have helped.

Teela has become no more than yet another feisty superhero decorative sidekick, complete with stripped-down costume and an endless supply of wisecracks. All pretty standard DC stuff; I mean, hardly groundbreaking, is it? I personally have no problem with her skimpy costume - but I do with the fact that she apparently suffers from Tourettes. Her abuse of English and constant smart**s attitude I find very wearing indeed. And in any case it’s internally inconsistent; if He-Man IS The Power (sic) – meaning (bizarrely) that he is the actual embodiment of the gods – then surely her continuing to treat him like Adam in her ongoing tedious and banal banter is singularly inappropriate. If one is to create a “new” take, then is it too much to expect it to conform to its own contrivances? Apparently yes.

Orko as arch-traitor. Words fail me at such an utterly feeble plot-contrivance. And this is meant to be a more mature approach, is it? Then I’d really, really hate to see a childish one……


So, taken as a whole, does this constitute a more adult, more mature take on the canon - or is it just a dull, flat re-tread of the standard DC superhero standard line? I would argue very much the latter;

I don’t detect much understanding of or sympathy for the traditional Eternian ideals expressed in the canon – and this strikes me as a shame – and also conveys an element of hubris – or, at the very least, of re-inventing a perfectly serviceable wheel. I find the new series flawed in its fundamental conceptualization, lacking in internal consistency and shallow in context. As a result it is not compelling storytelling.

Half an hour’s research and thought would surely have been sufficient to obviate some of the more obvious inconsistencies – but, as we know – thought is irksome – and half an hour is a very long time.

Let me suggest as an antidote a re-read of the Shard of Darkness, from the 2002 Image Comics series. This elevated comics to the level of superb entertainment – and set very high standards – which these simply can’t match. And Val Staples draws on the whole rich and wide range of material to create dramatic storytelling that is intellectually as well as visually satisfying; a genuine tour de force – not least on account of Staples’ almost instinctive understanding of the material and capacity to expound it with style and eloquence. The Shard illustrates superbly the points I have attempted to make above; He-Man is set a test by the Sorceress – which he singularly fails – by falling for the tempting lure of supreme power inherent in the crystal; he is driven mad, attempts to kill, falls into a very real peril beyond merely his life – and – just note how he is saved in the end. Now, to me, this is The Comic as Art Form – it really is. And it sends this recent DC batch screaming back to the pit whence they came.

If you disagree, then I would humbly solicit that you should go and re-read it (or better still the whole series) – and it is right here on the site in all its wonder and complexity. http://www.he-man.org/publishing/sub...id=52&subid=42 Staples and Santalucia was a very potent pairing indeed; it’s tragic that this did not continue – and left us to the mercy of these recent dismal offerings. O Tempora O Mores….

And so a new batch of comics rolls onto the horizon – and judging by the spoilers thus far, they are going for the cataclysm – again. Not much sign of building up a longer-term context, or exercising narrative restraint towards this. I’m not altogether surprised, frankly. Shock and awe at the expense of such things has ever been attractive to the jejune and ill-informed. I had hoped that they might have gotten that out of their system – but the latest indications are FAR from good.

I’m far more likely to hold my subscription than my breath.