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Thread: 200x in MOTUC - Was Count Marzo "the straw that broke the camel's back"?

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    Human... Robot... Maniac Spacedust's Avatar
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    200x in MOTUC - Was Count Marzo "the straw that broke the camel's back"?

    Just sitting looking at my Count Marzo figures.
    Very nice figures in their own right, don't get me wrong, but just one glance at them, and - to me - they seem so "anime", so... I dunno, just wrong with the style of the rest of the line.

    Since the beginning of the line, we've had the occasional 200x-influenced extras (heads, weapons, etc.), which was a nice extra for those that wanted 200x-style figures, and hey, if you didn't want that style, you didn't have to use them.

    But with Marzo, they maybe just overstepped the line. The whole figure was arguably styled wrong, from the wind-blowing hair, to the more angular design, to the general whole style.

    Was Marzo the one that "broke the camel's back"* in terms of 200x-influences? If they hadn't made him so "extreme anime", would we maybe still be seeing occasional 200x extras with our MOTUC figures? It's been reported that it was with Marzo's release that "the powers that be" at Matty ordered drastic cutting back (to the point of cutting out completely) the anime and 200x feel.

    * - For anyone from different parts of the world not familiar with this saying, it basically means, was this the one who finally tipped the pot, upset the balance, etc.

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Ghost In The Machine Staff Of Ka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedust View Post
    Just sitting looking at my Count Marzo figures.
    Very nice figures in their own right, don't get me wrong, but just one glance at them, and - to me - they seem so "anime", so... I dunno, just wrong with the style of the rest of the line.

    But with Marzo, they maybe just overstepped the line. The whole figure was arguably styled wrong, from the wind-blowing hair, to the more angular design, to the general whole style.


    Thoughts?
    I totally agree, My Loose Marzo sticks out like a sore thumb! and as such he is no longer displayed with my MOTUC, but is on a different shelf.

    He is a Superb Figure, but he really is 'Overstyled' (AHD) mainly its his hair that is the issue!
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    Johan Eggink Eterniandreams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacedust View Post
    Thoughts?
    Yes, you are wrong.

    The figure is a complete reuse of parts except for the head and armour with cape. So those parts can't feel wrong to you.

    The armour with cape is no way more "Anime" than the armour and cape of Hordak or He-ro.

    The head is just as detailed as Whiplash Vintage head(which is more detailed than the 200X head by the way...irony).

    And then we end up with the "windblown hair".... That is SOOO anime, lol. Just like She-ras hair. Not dynamic at all, right?
    Doesn't Anime hair stand up straith like Goku?
    Last edited by Eterniandreams; August 30, 2010 at 08:40am.

  4. #4
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    The short answer would be yes, I believe Marzo probably was the last straw.

    I disagree with everyone who says he doesn't fit in though. I think, besides his head and hair, he fits in perfectly with the MOTUC line.

    Many figures are more detailed than Marzo, and Roboto/Optikk/Trap-Jaw look all sci-fi and not "warrior fantasy." They stick out just as much, if not more, than Marzo.

    Also, She-Ra and Adora basically have NO details because they based the figures off of animation designs (which are almost always simplistic and minimalistic). So, I think they stick out the most because of that choice.

    I think Marzo just gets a lot of flak because he's the first 200X character we've got that has a unique look (King Grayskull was almoast a pure He-Man repaint).

    With the "it has to be purely vintage" mentality we're starting to get from Mattel, and some fans...I'm very concerned the MOTUC figures will begin to become plain, bland and 100% parts re-use. I can already see the orange, blue and white coloured Stratos that will be our Sorceress...
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    Gimme Granita! Scorpia's Avatar
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    I think it's all very varied - Webstor, Scare Glow, Zodac and Moss Man aren't any more detailed than Adora and She-Ra, IMO, and they're not based on cartoon designs.

    I like that MOTUC has a lot of variety to it and - for me - Count Marzo sits fine with Keldor and Kronis in a 'classics' style. I honestly think Mattel were making a mountain out of a molehill with that one, as it seems based purely on his hair...

    The 4HM did well to represent the 200x character of Marzo and, since he didn't have a figure in the 80s, if they removed element from his design, it may have affected the popularity and therefore sales of the character.

    Wish they'd leave the 4HM in charge, personally...
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  6. #6
    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpia View Post
    Wish they'd leave the 4HM in charge, personally...
    I agree with this. I love the Count Marzo we got and the 200X extra heads.
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    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    I'd like to think the 2002 inspired heads were axed so there would be more of a budget to invest in the POP females.

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    Illumina & Cat please! Darkspecter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallstar View Post
    I'd like to think the 2002 inspired heads were axed so there would be more of a budget to invest in the POP females.
    If that's what it takes for us to get female buck 2.0...maybe I'll just have to turn my back on this matter...

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    Heroic Warrior Neal1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    The short answer would be yes, I believe Marzo probably was the last straw.

    I disagree with everyone who says he doesn't fit in though. I think, besides his head and hair, he fits in perfectly with the MOTUC line.
    Agreed on both points. Sure, he looks a little different, but he has the same buck as the rest of the line and most parts have been used before, as already mentioned.
    So he has wind-blown hair. Ok. I'll live.

    I can only imagine the flak Chief Carnivus will get.

  10. #10
    Heroic HamStar Minion's Avatar
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    I don't think Marzo stands out on my display shelves in a negative way, he fits in nicely alongside clean shaven Man-at-Arms and the Goddess.

    That said there is definitely some heavy 200X in there, especially as there is no original toy for a frame of reference. I do think that he definitely contributed towards Mattel putting their foot down on the 'hyper anime detail' stuff.

  11. #11
    Heroic Warrior Orko's Magic Hat's Avatar
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    I have to disagree, I think Marzo blends in very well - the hair could have been made a bit more "rounder" and neat, but overall, I'd say he's spot on. The whole buck in classic and the armor and skirt/belt is the only thing which is detailed and not too much at that.

    If you put him with all the other figures, you won't notice anything different.

    It's just like the Star Wars line, not every character is detailed - the same built - species etc, but overall they all fit in.

  12. #12
    Heroic Warrior He-Boy's Avatar
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    I really struggle to see how Marzo doesn't fit in with the line. Even the hair. IMO, that hair is Marzo.

    Marzo is one of my fave characters and I think his figure is perfect!

    I do think that Marzo contributed to Mattel's recent decion to back away from 200X heads. But it wasn't the figure as much as the overly-dramatic response from the fans.

    I understand that we all have our different opinions, but it just seems that so much noise was made about Marzo; and many of the people making the noise admit that they like the figure!!??

  13. #13
    Council Elder Tallstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspecter View Post
    If that's what it takes for us to get female buck 2.0...maybe I'll just have to turn my back on this matter...

    ha!

    The way I see it, something in the MOTU world has gotta go, or be put on hold, if Mattel wanted to free up some funds for the POP gals. Thus far, the growing budget has mainly been put towards getting more MOTU stuff into the mix. Honestly though, I have it in my mind that Catra's gonna be a major disappointment when they get to her. - As in "let's just throw her Filmation outfit over the same old body".

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    Heroic Warrior Ealo's Avatar
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    i don't like marzo's hair. they could have changed his armor and sword a bit too actually. for me it isn't that it was a 200x head/figure, it was that it wasn't 'classicsized' enough. it is a shame if it lead to the loss of the 2nd 200x heads, because they were classicsized nicely. *if you look at emiliano's version of marzo's hair, that is still totally the marzo look*
    Last edited by Ealo; August 30, 2010 at 08:53am.

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    Heroic Warrior Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Don't take this personally, but anyone who thinks Marzo looks like he is from an anime is an idiot and clearly does not watch anime. The blowing hair makes him stand out from the other figures and makes it so that not every figure is going to be identical. A series that thrives on reusing body parts needed something like this to deviate from the norm. Not to mention it gives us new ideas for displaying the figure in a pose that suits the hair (as it makes him look like he is currently in combat). I repeat, there is nothing anime about Marzo at all, it is just that people don't like to have some variation in their style.
    Last edited by Dr Kain; August 30, 2010 at 08:57am.
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    Heroic Warrior Steph's Avatar
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    Except for the excessive rivets and the individually sculpted hair- I don't see what were all this "hyper- detail is". Marzo chest armor is smooth,his cape is very similar to other MOTUC capes, and his kilt had some extra piping that is not really necessary but that kind of detail can be found on other MOTUC that never had it before too.

    While I am happy with the Marzo figure that came out- I do wish he had more show accurate hair. It should look more like this. The long hair in the back would flow like Keldor's. Eliminate the brow furrow make the face smoother, but that is as much that could be removed- he suppose to have an angular face and chiseled nose.


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    Ghost In The Machine Staff Of Ka's Avatar
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    I actually think -besides the hair- that my biggest issue is the red tip of his sword, Its just weird, and I cant see it being any more than a pointless artistic expression, It really doesnt fit in the non anime vision of MOTUC -IMO
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    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    Don't take this personally, but anyone who thinks Marzo looks like he is from an anime is an idiot and clearly does not watch anime. The blowing hair makes him stand out from the other figures and makes it so that not every figure is going to be identical. A series that thrives on reusing body parts needed something like this to deviate from the norm. Not to mention it gives us new ideas for displaying the figure in a pose that suits the hair (as it makes him look like he is currently in combat). I repeat, there is nothing anime about Marzo at all, it is just that people don't like to have some variation in their style.
    LOL! Alot of the MOTU fans don't watch anime! Some fans think most modern cartoons are anime because they are drawn overseas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Staff Of Ka View Post
    I actually think -besides the hair- that my biggest issue is the red tip of his sword, Its just weird, and I cant see it being any more than a pointless artistic expression, It really doesnt fit in the non anime vision of MOTUC -IMO


    But that was his sword...

    The Blonde Teela (Battleground and Alcala Teela) Thread
    The Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn (The Real 200X Evil-Lyn) Thread
    MegaGearMax's 200X/MYP Screen Grabs

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  19. #19
    Heroic Warrior He-Boy's Avatar
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    Steph, that hair is much more hyper anime detail. (It does look cool though)

    Staff of Ka, I admit the red tip on his sword did throw me at first too.

  20. #20
    Ghost In The Machine Staff Of Ka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaGearMax View Post
    But that was his sword...
    This is true, But I guess it was a curve ball that such a strange 200X embellishment was kept in, and Yet Keldors (note I NEVER say the 200X Power sword) sword was too AHD.

    Besides the fact that I dont 'get' what the red pointy thing is -or if it is based on actual weaponry- its just that Id have expected Marzo to have a more traditional representation of his sword.
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    Heroic Warrior Steph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He-Boy View Post
    Steph, that hair is much more hyper anime detail. (It does look cool though)
    I know is is "anime like", but that is his hair. The MOTUC hair is a realistic long hair style that has been adapted to action figure. Yet people still claim it is hyper anime detail. Marzo hair is much more akin the the superhero, spawn sculpting style of the 90s which is nothing like the majority of anime/manga.

    I don't get. I have a couple hundred different anime figures with real anime hair (from DBZ, all era of Gundum, moe girls, etc). Marzo MOTUC hair is nothing like real anime hair. Keldor's hair sculpt is very anime- it it a defined smooth shape with very few accents to define the flow of hair. I dare say He-man's hair is close to hyper anime style hair than Marzo's. It looks like Rei hair from EVA plopped on a mans head .


    If people think Marzo MOTUC hair doesn't fit with the line because it is more realistically detail, I can see their point. But not when they are claiming it is anime- because it is not.

  22. #22
    Heroic Master of 200X MegaGearMax's Avatar
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    So is windblown hair Hyper Anime Detail?



    Like this?

    The Blonde Teela (Battleground and Alcala Teela) Thread
    The Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn (The Real 200X Evil-Lyn) Thread
    MegaGearMax's 200X/MYP Screen Grabs

    Sagitar • Cloak and Dagger Evil-Lyn • 200X Prince Adam • 200X Sorceress
    Sssqueeze • Angella • Perfuma • Evilseed (MYP)

  23. #23
    Heroic Warrior Ealo's Avatar
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    i don't think the issue is with what you call it and it is pointless going on about it. the problem is if it fits in with the rest of the line or not.

  24. #24
    Heroic Warrior
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    It's a good question. Of all the non-original characters (those which didn't appear in the vintage line), I probably like Count Marzo the best. I think the hair was over-done, and I would have preferred a simpler style as illustrated in Steph's post. But my thoughts on that are mostly about the lack of articulation caused by the shape of the hair rather than its style.

    When I think about Optikk (I prefer not to), it is obvious that Marzo fits in the Classics line much better. On the point about the sword tip - yes, it should be there because it was part of the original design, but it does look a bit odd and impractical. Anyway, I digress.

    The point I wanted to make was that the most obvious aspect of Marzo's design which, to my mind, suggests a really big 2002 influence, is his shorts. The shorts are so obviously not in keeping with the rest of the line. I think it could be that detail which broke the camel's back for the Mattel bosses.

    Afterall, if we are talking about faithful reproductions of illustrations, shouldn't we have had very different shorts for Mer-Man? I haven't got a scan I can attach at the moment - perhaps someone can oblige. Mer-Man's minicomic shorts were very much in keeping with his character.

    If they can do it for Marzo, why not for a much more important character?
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  25. #25
    Door with dental plan. Jawbridge's Avatar
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    I actually dislike that sword as well. It's my least favorite part of the figure, and in the top five of worst weapon translations. Topping that list is that ridiculous thing that came with Whiplash.

    I did put Mo-Larr's head on Marzo and vice-versa, just for fun as I we all do. It made me think Marzo has a huge head. Just really really big. And Steph's pics did do a lot to make Marzo better imo.

    As far as "hyper-anime-detail," this to me has always been an oxymoron as a single label, but "semi-anime-style w/ more-detail" seems to fit better. And that's just the natural evolution of figures as we all understand it (one path anyways). It doesn't fit perfectly. Just better. But if I had to make sense of it, I would note that the detail that did go into Marzo was more exaggerated than other figures. So I would more label Marzo in maybe a hyper-detail category? If they toned down the anger and chilled out with the cape, he would likely fit better. Provided they made his head smaller.

    On the other hand, if they continued to sprinkle wind blown features into the mix (other than She-Ra's hair, which seems to not be liked), then these figures would start to match better, and not be the outcast they are. And it seems that they can still do things specific to pre-posing the figures, and features like Marzo's hand/hair/cape would still come about.

    My main thought is that a lot of people don't like Marzo, and without being able to put their finger on it, point out things related to 200X because that's his origin. Hopefully Chief Carnivus will give more acceptance to these kind of figures, as his cape and hair are straight, but other than that, he has the same level of detail and so forth. Idunno. I talk too much, really I just hate the stupid sword and then I started rambling. Laterz.
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