Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 016 Discussion!

[JVS3]

Episode 016 of He-Man.org's Roast Gooble Dinner is here!
We hope you're hungry.



Val Staples, "Pixel Dan" Eardley, Emiliano Santalucia and Eamon O'Donoghue are back to discuss He-Man and She-Ra.

First we cover fan e-mail!

After that, we discuss a couple more MOTUC bios. This time, Adora and Battle Cat.

A few "highlights" of the show:

• Eamon's American accent!
• Kit Kat loves Battle Cat!
• Gold armored talking Battle Cat?

And as always, you'll enjoy some extra seasoning with this episode's Fanart of the week, Collectible of the week and Fansite of the week!

So pull up your chair and fill up your plate! It's time to chow down on a tasty serving of fandom here on He-Man.org's Roast Gooble Dinner!

Direct link for Episode 016

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[Sandman]

A very interesting episode, guys, and I liked having the lion's share dedicated to MOTU discussion again!

I always thought the "Green Tiger tribe" was in reference to the original box art to Battle Cat, which showed both Skeletor and Beast Man also riding identical tigers to Battle Cat.

For me, Battle Cat talking isn't a stumbling point. I thought it was very poorly executed in most of the vintage continuity (especially how the lesser Filmation writers used him), so there's not much to lose. I think personally for my own internal logic I'd go with Cringer and Battle Cat having kind of an empathic bond through the power that connects them, which lets them communicate... somehow. For me, I never liked that Cringer just talked and everyone could hear him, and the original Filmation premise was that only those who knew He-Man's secret could hear it... But that got lost along the way.

Seriously, it's not a big deal.

If you substitute "tiger" for "lion" then Carnivus would be Dan's perfect MOTU incarnation. He's a talking lion dressed in gold with pretty hair!

[krosfyah]

another one so early?? AWESOME!!

[JVS3]

I liked having the lion's share dedicated to MOTU discussion again!

Always has been.

another one so early?? AWESOME!!

Ep 015 was just a few days behind schedule, that's all.
Sorry 'bout that!

[bnlvince]

Good show this week. I'm with u val, Battle cat/cringer is and always will be a talker. I couldn't stand the pathetic meows in the myp version.

[midor]

Just finished listening to it.

I prefer non talking cringer/battle cat or talking.

Eamon does a good American accent.

Eamon does a good wrestling voice. He would make a good face (good guy) due to his energetic personality. I don't think he pull off being a heel (bad guy). Even with the evil foreigner gimmick.

When Eamon said (in so many words) he was being to intellingent I, like the others, disagree to. Though with his OPINION on bow. I think he was taking it to serious. But it's obvious it's something that struck a nerve with him.

Good show.

Funny show.

additional:I like Eamon's explanation of the reason why Adam is the way he is. Never thought of that. Guess I always figured he grew up NOT knowing he had a twin. Something that was kept quiet.

[baron ironblood]

on the point of talking animals -- middle earth also has talking animals:

bilbo spoke with a thrush, asking him to warn bard in laketown of smaug's weakness. gwaihir, lord of the great eagles, also speaks.

[Jon-O]

This was a great episode, guys! Train wreck or not, it was VERY entertaining.

I'm just not even mentioning Bow...

Regarding Adora's bio: So much if it flowed and felt right the first time I read it, but when I got to the cloned sword part, I felt like I had just been in a train wreck. I thought maybe someone didn't know how to describe the sword being split again... but it seemed it was 'cloned' and thankfully they said these are only templates and not the final word.

As I was listening tonight, I wondered if in some way, Adora's being stolen away to Etheria and becoming its protector is payback and a way to make up for Grayskull sealing Hordak away in Despondos; consciously or not on the part of the writers, but just one of those tricks of Fate.

Back to the sword, yes, it makes sense that if there's a prophecy, the swords were both in existence since some mysterious point in history, rather than someone prophesying "The sword will be cloned when the twins are born. Sorceress, that's your cue!" I think a lot of us envisioned the swords coming from the same source, even them being fashioned from He-Ro's staff. (Ah yes, retcons...) At this point, I was ready to use the TRU sword as the Sword of She... but I'm sticking to my guns and envisioning my own take on how it came to be.

Adora is so fascinating as a character, animated and minicomics, that she'll always bring so many questions to mind. For instance, I was hoping her bio would explain how she escaped Hordak in the mini comics, because that origin story made NO SENSE whatsoever! It only raised more questions that her sword was identical, except for being gold and with a gem... and that she had it given to her by some unknown force on this alien world, PRIOR to meeting her brother. The fact the swords were twins made it that much more of an OMG moment.

As for Battle Cat talking, when 200X came about, I tried not to think about it, but something seemed off about his not talking; in addition to Orko being more annoying than comedic relief. Because MOTU was such a fantasy based tale back in the day, it made sense that animals on Eternia could talk, and when Bow looked and said, "He talks?", I thought, "Eternia's way more magical than Etheria. Got it; these are the rules we're playing by." While Orko and Cringer seem to be Adam's mini court, true, they aren't constantly all together. While Cringer is his side kick, Orko is his pal and sound board. Cringer has to go along with what Adam does, no matter what. Orko can say "Forget it, I'm going and getting help." I think his not talking would have to be treated just as delicately as his talking.

Hearing Green Tiger Tribe, I thought that there was a group of them, like a pack... which makes sense, and it was interesting to hear that the comic was to have the pack of tigers involved with The Goddess' people. I'm totally incorporating that into my canon. Thank you!

Ok, end of rant. Loved this one.

[Old Bolty-Neck]

WHERE IS THAT INTERVIEW WE WERE PROMISED!!!!! you guys were so excited about who it was and now it's still nowhere to be seen, the anxiety is KILLING ME! I at least wish I knew who it was!!

I'm really really looking forward to this interview that we've been teased with for quite a while now!

Well, of course we now know who it was we were all waiting for: Kit Kat. And although the interview was a short one, I thought Kit Kat made some valuable observations and had keen insights into a key Masters of the Universe character. And I give Val points for a bold choice as far as interview subjects go.

[josh]

It's possible that the "blank" voice mail was mine (around midnight CDT August 27?), though I specifically recall leaving a message.

Fan Art of the Week: He-man COSPLAY
Collectible of the Week: Masters of the Universe Kites
Website of the Week: www.CrazyCollectors.de

The great thing about looking for these links each week, I stumble across things I forgot about, like the Ball Darts! My grandma had these at her house, I presume for my cousin and I when we visited.

[Penny Dreadful]

Loved the episode!

Battle Cat - I've got to disagree with Eamon about Battle Cat. I feel that Battle Cat and Cringer should definitely talk. I'm tempted to leave a message about this one. I was disappointed when they removed this element in MYP. Battle Cat is far more than He-Man's steed. He is He-Man's friend and sidekick. The fact that he can speak emphasizes his qualities as a magical being, endows him with personality and also enriches the character of He-Man. We see more of He-Man's personality through his verbal interaction and good-natured joking with BC. Also, I always liked the bond of friendship between Adam, Cringer and Orko. The camaraderie between these three characters was something I loved as a child. Lastly, Cringer had some of the best one-liners/asides of the whole classic series. I'm glad to hear the comic was going to magically restore his voice!

Adora - Beware the Sorceress for she might clone YOU too! The cloned sword idea is terrible. I had always imagined Despondos in MYP being sort of like the Phantom Zone from Superman so it is a bit strange having Etheria in there, but I've pretty much given up trying to make sense of these bios. That said, I thought the rest of the bio was fine and mainly followed the established back story for Adora. One thing about Adora that I wish could be explored somehow is the fact that she was raised by Hordak. It'd be interesting to see how some of that played out. This fact has to create some definite inner conflict for She-Ra. Evil tyrant or not, Hordak is basically her father.

Kit Kat - Thanks for the deep and insightful comments. She should really have her
own show - Chit Chat With Kit Kat

Anyway, I wanna see Pixel Dan in a gold tiger outfit. Just sayin'.

~Penny~

[Angel-T]

Hmmmm.... after hearing this episode today I was almost tempted to phone in...But the I realised I don't have skype, so maybe another day. I agreed with everyone's points about Adora's bio, but I don't want to say to much about that as I might send you an e-mail regarding my thoughts on that part of this weeks discussion later in the week.

The Battle Cat discussion really got me thinking. I agreed with Eamon's stance on 2k cringer. I loved the way MYP used the amimation of his facial expressions and the intonation of his meows to infer what he was thinking or feeling. I totally think thats the best way to play cringer in the movie. I also agree with Val and Emiliano, when you lose Battle Cat's vocal interaction with He-Man we really lose something special from the incredable relationship they share. But on the other hand I totally want the grittyness that a non talking Battle Cat would afford the film. In short I think you are all right.

While listening to this conversation my mind kept getting flashes of Eragon. I LOVED the way that the dragon could only communicate with her rider telepathically. I don't think I ever looked at the discourse that played out between those two characters as childish, even though there was great humour, banter and emotioal moments shared between them. Just imagine after a battle to relieve the stress for whatever reasion Battle Cat starts insulting Ram Man or Stratos after they disagree with He-Man during a heated conversation. He-Man hearing the cats thoughts starts laughing & some of the other masters are like "whats so funny" and He-Man's just like "Oh nothing". It's totally between them and because of that it would make their conversations special when they happen, which wouldn't be to often to give them impact when they do. I really think it could play out quite well.

Maybe as time goes on He-Man would reveal he can hear the cat's thoughts or maybe after a while MAA just works it out after seeing He-Man having one to many one way converstions with Battle Cat (when he thinks no one is watching). To start with Duncan could think he is doing it as a form of stress relief as there is so much pressure on his shoulders. But as time goes on he thinks He-Man is losing his mind. But somehow he finds out and then it all makes sense. As we know the power of Grayskull gives She-Ra the power to communicate with animals, well they are twins at the end of the day and I personally like the fact they both had telepathic abilities in their filmation skill set. I would prefer it if He-Man could only pick up telepathy rather than infering a psychic ability to open or start a telepathic conversation: so no one is stepping on the Sorceresses toes.

I don't think that I would want He-Man to be able to respond telepathically to Battle Cat (but maybe that could work also), but just to be able to hear his thoughts when Battle Cat wants to share them. Personally I think this would allow Battle Cat to openly talk to He-Man in a credible way without it appearing silly or childish to an adult watching a MOTU movie. I don't think there is a need for Battle Cat to interact with any of the other masters, it's always been about him and He-Man.

If the telepathy can only happen after his transformation it adds the impact the power or Grayskull affords Adam when he is He-man. We know from his relationship with the Sorceress that Adam & He-Man can pick up on telepathic messages so this really wouldn't be changing anything that has already been established. Being able to recieve Battle Cat's thoughts would also allow He-man to use Battle Cat as a spy, perticularly if no one else knows Battle Cat can talk with his master. I wouldn't want Battle Cat to use full Launguage, more broken words to give the words an impact. As time goes on it might be cool for battle cat to be able to form more semi sentence like utterences, but I wouldn't want him to have flowing speech: I'd just like to see him getting better at communicating that way.

What do you think Eamon, would this be an acceptable way for Battle Cat to vocalise himself without ever having to actually utter a real word from his jaws. It's best we keep them sharp toothy pegs for ripping the heads of the evil worriors & horde!!!!

[Count Marzo]

I need to listen to this one again when I less distracted but I just want to make a couple quick comments...

-Why not start a sub group for Roast Gooble Dinner on here? I'm in the Chronicles and Masterscasts fan groups and it just feels right to have a Gooble one on my user page as well. It could also serve as a place for fans of it to make suggestions and hold votes/polls and such.

-Is it ok if I send in a mp3 voice message rather than call and leave a voice mail? I tend to use my computer's built in mic for long distance rather than my phone. I feel bad that I've procrastinated this long and there wasnt many emails/voice mails this time.

Thanks and keep up the great Gooble each week! You guys seem to be getting more and more crazier by the episode.

[Lay Ze-Man]

On the bios, I'm pretty much with the RGD panel that they're too convoluted for their own good. It's probably something that started out as someone at Mattel (Toyguru or whoever) who just wanted to satisfy some longstanding personal curiosities about certain characters' names, etc.

But I just don't get the sense that there's a real story there that someone wanted to tell, and felt it was worth repeating to the world's MotU fans.

I don't buy the "makes the largest number of toys possible" explanation either, because in no way did it have to be so complicated.

On Adora, I think Eamon has a great idea in her kidnapping resulting in Adam being the spoiled only child. This would go a long way to making the Adam character more layered, easier to suffer in a weird way, and be a much better dynamic to bounce the He-Man character off of.

The problem with the previous versions of Adam is that She-Ra wasn't invented yet (of course) so they couldn't build that into Adam's character from the get-go. But in a new MotU story, they absolutely could, and I think Eamon's idea is spot-on.

On Battle Cat's voice, I actually split the difference in that I wouldn't mind Battle Cat talking, but not Cringer. Cringer in Filmation was one of the single things that made that show way too silly and Scooby Doo-ish, yes, even when I watched He-Man as a kid. Emiliano might say that's more of a worry about execution, and I suppose that's possible, but in the context of a new movie, I would absolutely avoid Cringer talking just in case. With Battle Cat's voice, I think it entirely hinges on WHO you get to do the voice. A "rarr rarr grrr!" voice like Filmation would fall really flat for me.

I do dig the multiple green tiger idea as suggested by the old box art, but I don't think they should be tame-able, no one else besides He-Man should be able to ride one IMO. I wouldn't even allow Beast Man to tame them, make them that crazy ferocious! But for some reason, Cringer is unique, very meek and sweet. That makes it that much more of a contrast, and much better "disguise" as well when he becomes Battle Cat.

[Khror]

I'm with Eamon about Cringer not talking here.

Ok Children may prefer talking animals but there are also examples were the results can be the same without a talking animal. IE : lassie and flipper.
What is important is that Cringer understands what Adam and He-Man say as He-Man understands Battle-Cat or Cringer when it's needed.

Ok, it can diminish the magical universe here but is that so important? Eternia has many other interesting magical aspects to throw this one away. I think the fact Cringer can speak doesn't bring anything interesting here even It could have been used in an interesting one… But it has never been the case.

At the end, even if I don't see the interest of Cringer beeing able to speak, at the end I think it really depend on what the character says and how he says it. It could be alright if it's relevant and serious enough.

If a He-Man movie is released, it should be adult oriented and if Cringer speaks, he should be serious with a ferocious and intimidating voice.

And what about Orko?
Sorry to say that but I don't know why Orko speaks either
Except that it's easier to cast some spells .
I say that just because it could be just a funny character to attract children but in fact it's more a ridiculous character that nearly bring nothing interesting to the MOTU except a new race of magicians coming from another dimension... well, the concept could have been kept with a less ridiculous character IMO.

Today MOTU is far less children oriented than in the 80's since the public stayed the same... And I think I would prefer see "my hero" evaluate with its fans that grown up than with the new children ... Even if the best would be to attract everyone... And I think the 200x cartoon was close to succeed in this task

[Emiliano]

I do dig the multiple green tiger idea as suggested by the old box art, but I don't think they should be tame-able, no one else besides He-Man should be able to ride one IMO. I wouldn't even allow Beast Man to tame them, make them that crazy ferocious! But for some reason, Cringer is unique, very meek and sweet. That makes it that much more of a contrast, and much better "disguise" as well when he becomes Battle Cat.

That was kinda the point!
No one other than He-Man can ride a Battle Cat - Today-
But in the past, very long past, there was this tribe, and they were the only ones able to tame the Green Tigers (and they wouldn't actually tame them, it was more complicated)
Being He-Man the descendant of He-Ro and Sharella (which wasn't the Green Goddess on our story) there was this link...

[THE RAW]

...listening to the episode right now...

and here in Germany, the She-Ra toon is back on TV right now
and i imagine kids looking at this...google it...find the org. and mattycollector and how hard it would be to order the toys for them

[Neal1972]

I haven't listened to this show yet, but personally I've never been a big fan of a talking Battle Cat. I never saw the point in it.
Emotions and feelings can be conveyed by means other than talking, and animals are experts at it - think of your pet, for instance, when they're hungry or want attention.
For me, the fact that BC talks in certain canon cheapens the character.

[Khror]

No one other than He-Man can ride a Battle Cat - Today-
But in the past, very long past, there was this tribe, and they were the only ones able to tame the Green Tigers (and they wouldn't actually tame them, it was more complicated)

I would be very interesting to know the back story of the race of Cringer (or Battle cat) and this tribe.

... And why He-Man could be the only one to ride a Battle cat? Is it because such cats (or tigers) are rare to find on Eternia?

And what about Panthor?
After all we know nearly nothing about Panthor. The race of Panthor could also be part of the story of the race of Battle cat... even if it could be too much also

[tenno]

Wow! This was the first episode where some of you goobled yourselves.
No way should Cringer/Battle Cat talk. It's childish. He should have a relationship with He-Man like Aragorn has with his horse. The silent communication between them is real and special.
Let the Narnia and Potter movies be made for kids. Despite the cool elements, Golden Compass did horribly in theatres. In that is a massive, fighting, well-designed talking bear. No one watched it. No sequels to follow.
The primary audience of He-Man will be young men as it started with Transformers and finished with GI Joe. Those more adult movies with PG-13 ratings draw the kids in the way the Potter and Narnia will fail to do as the kids grow.
Instead of catering to kids, the movie should cater to women by emphasizing Teela's role the way Lord of the Rings emphasized Arwyn's role and Transformers emphasized Spike's love-seeking.
I'd rather see no Battle Cat than a talking one.

[Eamon]

I like the episodes best where we get stuck in to a good MOTU discussion!
I think this is one like that.

My RGD brethern are abvioulsy tone deaf!!
I got one of two more US accents I will do this week. yay!!


As for telepathy with Battle Cat, mmm....I dunno. It would depend how it's done.
No animal in the LORD movies spoke. This was one of the few things Jackson chsoe to leave out, probably because it would upset the tone of the movies.
Narnia is fine but that was more fairy tale like fantasy.

I imagine MOTU to having a bit more grrr than either Narbia, LOTR or Golden Compass. Grrr becuase the action figuers say grrr.

[CarKrash]

I would like to know who will be the first Triple Crown appearance of the MOTU podcasts!? Maybe there was one already.. but I’m pretty sure there’s not. Pixel Dan has appeared on Gooble and Chronicles. Sallah has also appeared on Gooble and Chronicles. The Shadow is on Masterscast, and has been on Chronicles.. and I think Busta Toons has been on both Masterscast and Chronicles.. and I hear a certain New Adventures writer will soon make his appearance on his second podcast..

Will anyone be on all three podcasts!? And who will do it first????

[Sandman]

Will anyone be on all three podcasts!? And who will do it first????

We need to run a betting pool on this. See who gets the Hat trick!

[midor]

I like the episodes best where we get stuck in to a good MOTU discussion!
I think this is one like that.

My RGD brethern are abvioulsy tone deaf!!
I got one of two more US accents I will do this week. yay!!


As for telepathy with Battle Cat, mmm....I dunno. It would depend how it's done.
No animal in the LORD movies spoke. This was one of the few things Jackson chsoe to leave out, probably because it would upset the tone of the movies.
Narnia is fine but that was more fairy tale like fantasy.

I imagine MOTU to having a bit more grrr than either Narbia, LOTR or Golden Compass. Grrr becuase the action figuers say grrr.

Discussion?

Val & Emiliano jumped down your throat like it was some kind of intervention during the talking cat segment. The rest of the show may have been a discussion but that part sure wasn't. My proof/evidence, Dan's silence. Silence does not equal a discussion.

On a side note can you work "dude" into your American accent?

[Lay Ze-Man]

That was kinda the point!
No one other than He-Man can ride a Battle Cat - Today-
But in the past, very long past, there was this tribe, and they were the only ones able to tame the Green Tigers (and they wouldn't actually tame them, it was more complicated)
Being He-Man the descendant of He-Ro and Sharella (which wasn't the Green Goddess on our story) there was this link...

Sounds pretty cool!
Thanks for the further explanation.

I think it's important to have a bunch of Green Tigers roaming present day Eternia, because otherwise it'd be way too obvious is Cringer was the only one.

More on Cringer, I just had the idea that it would be cool for him to become physically exhausted and totally drained after turning back from Battle Cat. And it's more THIS reason that he is afraid when Adam starts the transformation. That could introduce a cool dynamic too, since it would pain Adam to "have to" call upon his help, and understand that Cringer is sharing his sacrifice as they fight evil.

And it would show Adam's empathy, that he only uses Battle Cat when he feels he has no other choice.
This would also prevent BC from getting too over-exposed to the point where his presence is taken for granted.
Overall, I just feel that the further we get from the trembling, goofy, crooked-tooth Filmation Cringer, the better.