Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 016 Discussion!

[JVS3]

Well, of course we now know who it was we were all waiting for: Kit Kat. And although the interview was a short one, I thought Kit Kat made some valuable observations and had keen insights into a key Masters of the Universe character. And I give Val points for a bold choice as far as interview subjects go.

LOL!

The interview we've talked about will be start in episode 017.
It's a good one!

Discussion?

Val & Emiliano jumped down your throat like it was some kind of intervention during the talking cat segment. The rest of the show may have been a discussion but that part sure wasn't. My proof/evidence, Dan's silence. Silence does not equal a discussion.

Good grief, midor, why do you sound so angry?
Because you agree with Eamon, and we don't share that opinion, doesn't mean you should take it so personally.
Cheer up, man. It's just a fun podcast.

[Toyguru]

Since a lot of fans have been stuck on the whole "cloned sword" thing, let me just throw something out.

1: Cloning was established as a magic on Eternia wayyyyy back in the early mini comics.

2: Who in the world said that cloning the sword was easy and that anyone could do it? Maybe it is a very difficult spell that can only be performed once - for such is the strange workings of Magic!

Or maybe it is really easy and even Clawful can do it. You'll just need to keep reading huh?

Which brings up the other point. Totally aware that fans who follow the bios are a bit confused right now. Totally the point. The bios were written out all at once about the time Stratos came out and we knew the line was going beyond 6 figures. We strategically and purposely spread info out bio at a time to keep the fun up. Fans should have a good idea of the "full" picture somewhere around mid 2012 if things continue along the master plan. So if you are feeling like you don't have the full picture, just hang on. A lot more info is still coming. And once you re-read older bios in the context of the full story, a lot will make more sense. Dissecting the bios one at a time was never intended. They should always be viewed within the context of all available bios and then re-viewed as new info comes out each month!

And hey, one last note. Regarding the debate over whether Vikor should be "concept art He-Man" vs new character "Vikor", as explained in the interview over on Fwoosh.net, we very purposely decided to go with making concept art characters their own characters in MOTUC and not just a "McQuarrie Skywalker" thing. (which honestly felt very lazy)

From a business POV this was done to make these characters more marketable down the road. Who knows what the future holds for the brand, but if were to ever explore other form factors or scales like Minis. 3 3/4" or Retro Figures or anything else we wanted to have the largest number of marketable characters at out disposal for future lines. This is why Wun-Dar, Vikor, Oolar, Demo Man etc.... are characters and not just bootlegs or concept art. And from a purely fun POV, as said above, just calling them "concept art" He-Man seemed like the lazy man's answer. Of course die hard fans know these are based on concept art. That is self evident. Giving them unique bios and names makes it more fun, and in the end, fun always trumps anything else, these are toys after all.

Anyway, two cents from Toy Land. Enjoy the show.

TG

[Emiliano]

just calling them "concept art" He-Man seemed like the lazy man's answer.
TG

I dunno, we'll have to agree on disagree on this one
To me saying McQuarrie Luke isn't being lazy, but more paying huge respect to the original designer of the character.
So, while I don't mind at all to have Vikor as the name of the character, I'd love to see at least a "based on an early He-Man desing by Mark Taylor" on the packaging
It's all about celebrating the art and the artists

[Neal1972]

Personally I love the bios.
Of course, there are things that for now at least I find confusing or whatever, but I'm glad the time was taken to tie everybody's stories together, and I can appreciate that it's no easy task.

Regarding the awareness (or lack thereof) in many quarters of the Motu(c) brand these days, I can vouch for the fact that unless you actively go looking for the info, chances are that you're going to be oblivious to the fact that Masters is still going.
That was what happened to me, until a stroke of good fortune came my way.
Maybe it's a bit different Stateside, what with the 200x toyline and cartoon being fairly prominent back in the early part of this decade, but in some other parts of the world, where 200x, NA or PoP was not a big thing, Masters is a distant memory.

[JVS3]

1: Cloning was established as a magic on Eternia wayyyyy back in the early mini comics.

2: Who in the world said that cloning the sword was easy and that anyone could do it? Maybe it is a very difficult spell that can only be performed once - for such is the strange workings of Magic!

First up, thank you for reply and participating. That's awesome.
I hope you'll do it more regularly too! It's all discussion in fun, and we all love hearing your explanations and ideas, etc.

As far as the cloning goes, sure, we saw Skeletor clone Teela.
But was that a good story concept at the time?
And, is that reason enough to use it repeatedly in MOTUC?
Personally, I have to say no to both.
Some early story concepts in MOTU and even throughout the line, IMO, weren't always successful and probably should not be revisited.

Which brings up the other point. Totally aware that fans who follow the bios are a bit confused right now. Totally the point. The bios were written out all at once about the time Stratos came out and we knew the line was going beyond 6 figures. We strategically and purposely spread info out bio at a time to keep the fun up. Fans should have a good idea of the "full" picture somewhere around mid 2012 if things continue along the master plan. So if you are feeling like you don't have the full picture, just hang on. A lot more info is still coming. And once you re-read older bios in the context of the full story, a lot will make more sense. Dissecting the bios one at a time was never intended. They should always be viewed within the context of all available bios and then re-viewed as new info comes out each month!

This sounds great,
but you have to look at it from our POV.

While you know the whole story, we don't.
And piece by piece so far has proven to be more and more confusing with each new figure.
We have elements that collide with other elements, story points that appear to contradict each other, and so forth.

While in the end it may all come full circle and be awesome,
for right now I think it's really confusing and was not rolled out in the most efficient and engaging way.

No offense! I'm not looking to ruffle feathers.
But all that any of us can do is read the story as-is.
Mattel had to expect people to dissect them one at a time.
If not? Then, well... I think someone at Mattel should have considered better delivery of the story.

And hey, one last note. Regarding the debate over whether Vikor should be "concept art He-Man" vs new character "Vikor", as explained in the interview over on Fwoosh.net, we very purposely decided to go with making concept art characters their own characters in MOTUC and not just a "McQuarrie Skywalker" thing. (which honestly felt very lazy)

From a business POV this was done to make these characters more marketable down the road. Who knows what the future holds for the brand, but if were to ever explore other form factors or scales like Minis. 3 3/4" or Retro Figures or anything else we wanted to have the largest number of marketable characters at out disposal for future lines.

Hey, ya like what ya like.
Some fans love them as new characters.

I definitely understand how it's useful to create a new character to have in the MOTU roster to use later down the road.
But then there's no guarantee they'll ever get used again either.

So I really hate missing out on the development and behind-the-scenes creation story that those figures could have been used to tell.
I feel Hasbro really nailed it by doing that with those figures. I feel it was the opposite of lazy.
I don't feel Mattel has to worry about being perceived as a copycat, if anyone there happens to have that concern.
Concepts are concepts. And fans love to know the back story of design and creation.

Regarding the awareness (or lack thereof) in many quarters of the Motu(c) brand these days, I can vouch for the fact that unless you actively go looking for the info, chances are that you're going to be oblivious to the fact that Masters is still going.
That was what happened to me, until a stroke of good fortune came my way.
Maybe it's a bit different Stateside, what with the 200x toyline and cartoon being fairly prominent back in the early part of this decade, but in some other parts of the world, where 200x, NA or PoP was not a big thing, Masters is a distant memory.

I did see one really cool thing the other day. I saw a Matty ad at the beginning of the Batman Red Hood DVD release.
That was cool!

[midor]

LOL!

The interview we've talked about will be start in episode 017.
It's a good one!



Good grief, midor, why do you sound so angry?
Because you agree with Eamon, and we don't share that opinion, doesn't mean you should take it so personally.
Cheer up, man. It's just a fun podcast.

Guess I did sound angry. Not my intent.

I may be taking it personally but NOT because you and Emiliano disagreed with Aemon but the tone you both used. You know that old saying it's not what you say but how you say it? It came across to me that the both of you were greatly affended that Aemon had an opinion different than yours. Guess that bit struck a nerve with me. I don't have a problem with your or Emiliano's opinion on the matter. I understand where you two are coming from.

Cheer up? I said it was a funny show.

[MegaGearMax]

• I agree with the cloning. How can you just make a copy of the Sword of He, some god-like artifact? There should have always been two swords with unique properties. The Sword of He should split in two parts, while the Sword of Protection should have been a carefully guarded secret until it was time to give it to someone.

• I disagree with Evil-Lyn freeing everything. She was always doing it in MYP. She freed King Hsss for power, she freed Hordak for power, she uncursed Marzo for power, she freed Gygor for power. She's a power *****.

• I'm not a fan of the "long lost sister" bit. Maybe if MYP had Adora as part of the Royal Family from the start and had her become She-Ra later like in Season Three, it would have been better.

• A Parek-Narr is the rhino-thing that Beast Man used to ram into the Mystic Wall.

• Hey....we've got a good argument! I gotta agree with Eamon about Battle Cat...most fantasies with talking animals are kids' movies. I can see why MYP got rid of talking animals...most of the obvious examples are kids movies. Are there any serious movies with talking beasts? Not aliens, but beasts? It isn't the idea itself, but how the idea has been presented in today's media. In today's media, talking animals are kiddie fare.

[JVS3]

Guess I did sound angry. Not my intent.

It's all good.
But, if you would, please use some smileys.
I think that's part of what's throwing me on your posts.

It came across to me that the both of you were greatly affended that Aemon had an opinion different than yours. Guess that bit struck a nerve with me.

I don't know why you thought that. It definitely wasn't our intention.
By that same measure, someone could say the same about Eamon's opinion if they agreed with Emiliano and myself. But Eamon was just speaking his mind.
We're all having fun. I think the immediate transition to laughs and jokes is proof positive of that.

I gotta agree with Eamon about Battle Cat...most fantasies with talking animals are kids' movies. I can see why MYP got rid of talking animals...most of the obvious examples are kids movies. Are there any serious movies with talking beasts? Not aliens, but beasts? It isn't the idea itself, but how the idea has been presented in today's media. In today's media, talking animals are kiddie fare.

Yep, I had a feeling the Battle Cat discussion is going to have some pretty heavy opinions on either side.
It was this way when the MYP cartoon first depicted Cringer too.

[Emiliano]

I can guarantee I was not offended by Eamon's opinion at all!
We have emotional attachment to some of these characters (wait until we get to Orko...) so our reaction can be more intense. But that's it. We're all good

[guitargod694]

I am personally offended every time Eamon speaks. But that's just me.

[JVS3]

I am personally offended every time Eamon speaks. But that's just me.

I'm offended by Eamon's American accent.

[Toyguru]

I dunno, we'll have to agree on disagree on this one
To me saying McQuarrie Luke isn't being lazy, but more paying huge respect to the original designer of the character.
So, while I don't mind at all to have Vikor as the name of the character, I'd love to see at least a "based on an early He-Man desing by Mark Taylor" on the packaging
It's all about celebrating the art and the artists

While as a fan I have nothing but respect those who worked on MOTU in the vintage days, we are not going to be using any of the names of non current Mattel employees on any product at this time. There are logistic issues we simply can not go into with the public. For now we are going with "new characters" as oppose to "art and behind the scene homages" on packaging.

[guitargod694]

I'm offended by Eamon's American accent.

Really? I find his ginger-irish accent much more offensive.

While as a fan I have nothing but respect those who worked on MOTU in the vintage days, we are not going to be using any of the names of non current Mattel employees on any product at this time. There are logistic issues we simply can not go into with the public. For now we are going with "new characters" as oppose to "art and behind the scene homages" on packaging.

Yeah, I can understand why Mattel would prefer to go that way.
I think the 'concept' style approach would be cool, but honestly I'm just happy to get these kinds of figures however they come out.

[JVS3]

While as a fan I have nothing but respect those who worked on MOTU in the vintage days, we are not going to be using any of the names of non current Mattel employees on any product at this time. There are logistic issues we simply can not go into with the public. For now we are going with "new characters" as oppose to "art and behind the scene homages" on packaging.

Understandable for now, and I know it's completely out of your hands! But I really do hope that will one day change.
After all, Warner Bros/DC eventually changed their tune and gave proper credit to the creators of Superman.
Hopefully the head honchos at Mattel will one day pay the same respect to the original creators and their contributions as well.

[midor]

I'm offended by Eamon's American accent.

If I wasn't to busy laughing at it. I probably should be offended to. But you got to appreciate the time and effort he puts into it.

Use smileys? Not a fan of them. Seriously. But if you insist.

In my mind I sounded spaztic. A bit dramatic.

[JVS3]

If I wasn't to busy laughing at it. I probably should be offended to. But you got to appreciate the time and effort he puts into it.

I do! I do appreciate his efforts!

Use smileys? Not a fan of them. Seriously. But if you insist.

Do it for He-Man!

[Mr_Yuck]

Since a lot of fans have been stuck on the whole "cloned sword" thing, let me just throw something out.

1: Cloning was established as a magic on Eternia wayyyyy back in the early mini comics.

The only time cloning was used in the mini comics to my knowledge was in the origin of Teela. And even in that story, it didn't quite go as planned for Skeletor. I'm actually ok with keeping the cloning of Teela in the bios, but for the swords I'm just not feeling it for some reason. I'd prefer to think that upon the prophecy of the Twins of Power coming to fruition, the sword replicated mystically to grant Adora access to the power.

Or maybe it is really easy and even Clawful can do it. You'll just need to keep reading huh?

It reminds me of those Geico commercials "Magic so easy, even a Clawful can do it"


As far as Battlecat talking goes, I'm with Eamon on this one. I'd rather have Battlecat/Cringer not have the ability to talk. From my pov, we already have talking "animals" in the story, even if they are animal/human hybrids:

Beast Man-Talking, well.... beast
Webstor-Talking spider
Clawful-Talking crab
Buzz-Off-Talking bee
Stratos-Talking and flying simian....things

etc...etc...etc...

The communication between He-Man and Battlecat can be from telepathy I suppose, since they are connect by the power of Grayskull. Either way though, I think you can still effectively display interaction between He-Man and BC through non verbal means.

[Angel-T]

Eamon is known for having plenty of strong oppinions, oppinions that he strongly defends! I don't think for one second any of the guys offended each other their, it' just something they are all passionate about and all have valid points they are backing, but they just don't agree on this issue. Just wait till She-Ra's bio comes up, the smelly stuff will be hitting the fan when that conversation happens.

Intresting post from Scott, but why couldn't Adora have eventually come to weild Skeletor's dark half of the power sword after He-Man had recombined the sword of he to unleash the full power of grayskull? He could then give She-Ra her half of the sword when he found her. shairing half of king grayskull's power with his sister. She-Ra would then have had a true power sword, which reinforces the twin of power prophecy with the use of the twin blades and the idea of the twins sharing the power equally: something very important to many POP fans.

The Eternia map bio is very confusing because in light of Adora's bio, because it insinuates the twins of power weild the two halfs of the sword of he, yet in Adora's bio the sword is cloned. This has lead some fans to speculate Adora is not the other grayskull twin, posing Keldor might be. I just hate the idea that She-Ra's powers were an after though and her sword is not authentic or less than He-Man's sword, which the word cloning does imply IMO: but thats just my interpretation of cloning, similar to, but still a copy.

She-Ra always had an authentic sword in the cartoon, mini comics, many books and UK comics that was identical to He-Man's. As we learn more about the stone of protection it might sound better, but as it stands I still think the two swords of power & protection coming together to form the full Sword of He sounds much better. The stone of protection being set within the sword of protection by the Sorceress once the blade had been split again (after He-Man unlocked the full power) to drive out the darkness of the blade after Skeletors use of it. But I'm open to hearing where you guys are going with the story.

[Lay Ze-Man]

We strategically and purposely spread info out bio at a time to keep the fun up.

Hmm, well here's where I don't think it's met with the greatest success.
A large chunk of the fanbase just doesn't think the bios are very fun.
I agree with Val that the roll out of info and story hasn't been as effective as it could've been.

From a business POV this was done to make these characters more marketable down the road. Who knows what the future holds for the brand, but if were to ever explore other form factors or scales like Minis. 3 3/4" or Retro Figures or anything else we wanted to have the largest number of marketable characters at out disposal for future lines.

Good point that I hadn't considered, but at the same rate, I disagree with changing the existing story so much to accommodate them.

"Demo-Man" the concept drawing has little or nothing to do with Skeletor, so making him such a crucial part of Skeletor is misguided IMO.

And from a purely fun POV, as said above, just calling them "concept art" He-Man seemed like the lazy man's answer.

Hey! I resemble that remark! j/k

As for fun, yeah of course it's fun for YOU guys to be able to name 'em and give 'em back stories! Who wouldn't have fun doing that? But in the context of MotU's history, I think what's best for the brand should trump what's fun for the people working on the bios.

[MegaGearMax]

Hmm, well here's where I don't think it's met with the greatest success.
A large chunk of the fanbase just doesn't think the bios are very fun.

I think that's debatable because we have alot of fans who don't like anything new. It's why MYP, Jetlag, the 87 movie, the Pre-Filmation mini-comics and possibly a new movie get the flack that they do--some fans expect Filmation. They wanted MYP, Jetlag and all those things to be Filmation episode. Whenever we have new media threads, we have fans who want a Filmation clone. In the movie forum, people want a live action Filmation movie.

I'm not bashing Filmation, but I am commenting that some fans seem to have an inability to accept MOTU media that isn't Filmation-based.

I asked Matty if the bios could change due to intense negativity and Mattel said that the fans initially hate most new concepts until it grows on them and used Keldor as an example.

[midor]

I do! I do appreciate his efforts!



Do it for He-Man!

Ok. But I'll be more of team player on smileys if you can get one for Meckaneck and Extendar.

[Lay Ze-Man]

I'm not bashing Filmation, but I am commenting that some fans seem to have an inability to accept MOTU media that isn't Filmation-based.

Well, I'm not a Filmation fan, and I have zero problems with new stuff.

I just think the bios are sorely lacking in quality, which seriously detracts from any fun which might be had.

I asked Matty if the bios could change due to intense negativity and Mattel said that the fans initially hate most new concepts until it grows on them and used Keldor as an example.

Keldor is one thing, but if MotU fans are calling Hordak anything other than Hordak 20 years from now, I owe you a figure.

[Benedict Judas Hel]

I'm offended by Eamon's American accent.

His American accent sounds like an old lady from the Midwest to me personally. Sorry, Eamon. I was thinking in my head that you were ready to offer the other guys pop and Rice Krispie squares at any moment when you were speaking in your Yank tongue.

And Pixel D, your "Right, right" was straight out of A Clockwork Orange. When ol' Alex The Large is talking to his droogies, he occasionally drops a "right, right" in there. As a stout chelloveck yourelf, I thought you were a big fan of the moloko plus when you were govoreeting with the nadsat...

[MegaGearMax]

I just think the bios are sorely lacking in quality, which seriously detracts from any fun which might be had.

Probably, but they are the only official entertainment coming out for this line. It's a drop of water to someone stranded in the desert.

Keldor is one thing, but if MotU fans are calling Hordak anything other than Hordak 20 years from now, I owe you a figure.

Yes, some of those names chosen aren't my cup of tea, but G.I. Joe characters have real names and we still know those characters by their G.I. Joe names. I don't see what's so tough about MOTU doing this, besides the old guard not liking anything new. Ram Man, Clamp Champ and Buzz-Off's real names might be the new "Duncan" or "Kronis".

Some fans are warming up to the new canon, though.

[guitargod694]

Or maybe it is really easy and even Clawful can do it. You'll just need to keep reading huh?

It reminds me of those Geico commercials "Magic so easy, even a Clawful can do it"