Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 022 Discussion!

[JVS3]

Episode 022 of He-Man.org's Roast Gooble Dinner is here!
We hope you're hungry.



Val Staples, "Pixel Dan" Eardley, Emiliano Santalucia and Danielle Gelehrter are back to discuss He-Man and She-Ra.

First, we talk about the White Screen of Death and the backwards Roboto shoulder problem.

After that, we discuss another MOTUC bios. This time, Eternia (continued from last week), Count Marzo and Orko.

A few "highlights" of the show:

• Slurps!
• Eamon's ego!
• More boobs!

Plus, fellow He-Fan josh on the forums has created this fantastic Roast Gooble Dinner podcast Appendix & Notations which contains a ton of info about the show, with all the info about the Fanart, Fansites and Collectibles of the week, along with links to sites and user profiles of interest, and also details on how to contact the show with your feedback. Be sure to check that out!

And as always, you'll enjoy some extra seasoning with this episode's Fanart of the week, Collectible of the week and Fansite of the week!

So pull up your chair and fill up your plate! It's time to chow down on a tasty serving of fandom here on He-Man.org's Roast Gooble Dinner!

Direct link for Episode 022

Subscription info:

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[MegaGearMax]

Hell YEAH!!!

Wait...no Eamon?!!! If you guys are the X-Men, then he's Wolverine! LMAO!

[Scotward]

Awesomesauce.

[Mr_Yuck]

I'm listening to the podcast now. It does feel odd to hear Eamon on the show, for sure.

I hate to be a bit of a naysayer, but I'm reserving judgement on the WSOD being resolved bit until next month. I'm not convinced myself that now all of a sudden the problem has been addressed. I could be wrong, and maybe they finally put DR's feet to the fire on this issue. Previous history though, doesn't give me a lot of confidence on this.

In regards to the Roboto shoulder issue, while it's fine and good that Scott made an official statement, in my opinion that does nothing at all to restore customer confidence. Especially given the fact that the statement itself quickly segued into announcements about the upcoming line up. Frankly, it felt like a poorly veiled attempt at distraction.

Emiliano also brings up a great point about this mistake as well. Not only do the fans get a product with a defect (and yes, it is a defect, whether or not it impairs the function or is just merely impact the aesthetics of the arm), it has to really tick off the 4H that a figure that they must have put a lot of effort into sculpting, is marred because Mattel couldn't put in the necessary effort into ensuring the quality of the end product. So this error not only negatively impacts their external customers, but also hurts the work of their internal customers as well.

I really hope we hear something soon about Mattel doing something to make this right. Obviously a recall isn't an option, and it will probably be some time before we see a rerelease. There's a lot they can do however, to show their customers they take this matter seriously, beyond a promise to do better next time. I certainly hope they don't waste that opportunity.

[JVS3]

I see what you're saying, and I don't want you to think I'm dismissing those concerns on the show.
I just feel their attitude is a step in the right direction.

Now comes the follow-through.
It's time to walk the walk.

[Tallstar]

Is this Halloween surprise something MOTU-related?

[Mr_Yuck]

I see what you're saying, and I don't want you to think I'm dismissing those concerns on the show.
I just feel their attitude is a step in the right direction.

Now comes the follow-through.
It's time to walk the walk.

I know you weren't, Val. I can see how an acknowledgement is the first step in the right thing to do.

And you're right, they need to do some follow through. Otherwise, it's just a hollow gesture.

[Irian]

I really don't see any danger that the Orko discussion could become the new Battle Cat controversy - I mean, who would argue against anything* you said on the podcast?

*) Well, with the exception maybe that I think Emiliano is getting his Joseph Campbell slightly wrong when he argues that every character in a story needs to go through the hero's journey (the monomyth is a number of distinct motives or stages that form the story - not just character development for a protagonist). It's also still controversially discussed if the "new writing dogma" that every good story has to follow the hero with a thousand faces is actually true or not.

[MegaGearMax]

As for Orko, I'd rather that they just made him a little more competent, like an alien wizard who is stuck using low-level spells and has to learn basic human things about Eternia (holidays, customs like not wolfing down food, not being messy) This would still retain the whole innocence angle (only it's ET-like alien innocence), while playing up that he's an alien, rather than a kid or a secret agent.

Daniel Lynch's Orko review had a nice gag about Orko's new status in Classics.

[Jon-O]

As for Orko, I'd rather that they just made him a little more competent, like an alien wizard who is stuck using low-level spells and has to learn basic human things about Eternia (holidays, customs like not wolfing down food, not being messy) This would still retain the whole innocence angle (only it's ET-like alien innocence), while playing up that he's an alien, rather than a kid or a secret agent.

Not to get ahead of myself, but I agree. He's basically a stranger in a strange land. Part of the charm.

1. Is it possible that the sword being split for worthy heirs is itself a retcon to the sword being cloned?

2. I'm also thinking that Randor served in the military, and was promoted to Captain by the time his father disappeared. I also like that in this canon, kings were an established tradition.

3. I've always loved Orko, and while I enjoy the new twist and direction on the bio, it's like going to your favorite uncle's funeral and finding out he had a totally other life as a secret agent and you say, "HUH?" As Danielle said, Orko already had an important place in the mythos. Why did we have to retcon him into being a covert oprative, rather than falling into Destiny's hand to be his guide and friend? The Trollans don't need to be justified for being there, becoming the MOTU versions of the Oans.

It felt like Orko's importance in 200X was forgotten; he seemed like an accessory or an afterthought rather than a key player and the vehicle he was intended to be. Yeah, there was a difference in how MAA dealt with Orko in the two shows. In the 80s you understood why they invited him to live at the palace, but in 200X you wonder why they have him around if he irritates them so much. Some part of me thinks if this is what's going on, Orko's a sleeper agent and has no idea that he's lying. That Uncle Montork, in his infinite wisdom, placed a spell of forgetfulness on him.

4. Yeah, how does He-Ro fit in with the other Cosmic Warriors, as he was displaced in time and space. Is he from the future? Did they recruit him and then allow him to go back in order to fix the whole problem with the Horde in the long run? Here's where Adam ceases being Buffy. He-Ro is the deviation in the line, because with He-Ro's death, the line of succession is radically altered, as is the intent of what's to be done. Now, Adam is basically Fray.

And if anyone is lost on what I just said, I direct you to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melaka_Fray

[RockinHard]

Dan,

I don't like Orko, either. But I have to say that the bio didn't incense me like it did you guys.

If I ever "play" with my figures, I'll either leave him in on the shelf (likely with Prince Adam) or have a Shadowbeast eat both of them quickly and painfully.

[midor]

I like the Orko bio. To me it gives him a reason/pourpose as to why he's there and his magic is sucks on Eternia (even though it was explaind in MYP that he lost his medallion and it was eaten by a giant eternian bullfrog).

[Hoffrod]

Actually, they could have totally saved that bio by adding that Orko's trip to Eternia messed up his memory so he didnt realize his role until later in the future. That would have kept his nature true and his important role much better played out. I think that would have kept ALMOST everyone happier.

[Larry Waters]

I agree with what you guys were saying about the Bios.

Instead of using them as a story-telling device, they should have been used to simply tell us about the CHARACTER.

I think that if they had made them more along the lines of the old G.I. Joe file cards, this would have been much simpler.

With each ensuing Bio, we can see what a serving of BS we were given by TG when he claimed that everything had been planned out, story-wise. There are too many holes for me to be able to believe even a SHRED of this.

Additionally, the terrible writing didn't help things.

The old G.I. Joe file cards were background info that let kids use their imaginations. Hey, TG, THAT is how you make a line an "avatar for your imagination" and they were ALL written by ONE PERSON. Larry Hama...a REAL WRITER.

I know that the concept of hiring a skilled writer to pen these abominations is a foreign to Mattel as the thought of DC hiring an artist that owns a copy of Gray's Anatomy to do their 2-pack art...

[KnightDamien]

Gotta say real quick that I have to disagree with Val about the Power of the Universe being embodied in an item of chaos and destruction. Historically, the sword has symbolized a host of things, not the least of which being order and peace.

As the saying goes; "it's a double-edged sword." What destroys, also defends. Not to mention that there's long been a sort of mystic holiness to the sword. It's also a symbol of power (both physical and social), which is pretty fitting for THE sword of power.

Although I do get what Val's point was, and I see where he's coming from on it.

[Emiliano]

*) Well, with the exception maybe that I think Emiliano is getting his Joseph Campbell slightly wrong when he argues that every character in a story needs to go through the hero's journey (the monomyth is a number of distinct motives or stages that form the story - not just character development for a protagonist). It's also still controversially discussed if the "new writing dogma" that every good story has to follow the hero with a thousand faces is actually true or not.

I didn't mean every character has to go through the story. But the moment you start developing that character and start developing a story about and around him, that character becomes the protagonist on his own so he'd need his stages in the monomyth too.
Especially if you turn the story in a serialized, episodic narration. Then the writer needs to expand the story, and often shift the focus from the main hero to the secondary characters.
I made the example of Star Wars just not because every character has to go have its personl Hero's Jurney, but because I feel SW works so good since many of the character in the story have their steps and becomes much more rounded.

As for the controversy, I know is there.
Personally I just recognize The Hero with a Thousand Faces in all the stories I read, like it's always there, in a form of another.
Still MOTU is a classical fantasy story, I don't see any experimental writing fitting that world too well

[JVS3]

Gotta say real quick that I have to disagree with Val about the Power of the Universe being embodied in an item of chaos and destruction. Historically, the sword has symbolized a host of things, not the least of which being order and peace.

If it's used the way He-Man used it in Filmation, then we're closer to that concept.
But how often do we see folks complain that He-Man "didn't use his sword as a sword"?
Even in defense against an attack, the moment a sword cuts or damages something, it's a still a weapon of destruction.
It symbolizes order and peace through violent action.
It would be different if we were talking about a suit of armor or often even a shield.

*) Well, with the exception maybe that I think Emiliano is getting his Joseph Campbell slightly wrong when he argues that every character in a story needs to go through the hero's journey (the monomyth is a number of distinct motives or stages that form the story - not just character development for a protagonist). It's also still controversially discussed if the "new writing dogma" that every good story has to follow the hero with a thousand faces is actually true or not.

I also am not completely on board with the Hero's Journey argument. That's not the only story structure to use for a character, for sure.

I know Emiliano did say that every writer knows the basic hero's journey steps a character must go through, which can imply that every character must have this formula applied. But I wouldn't focus on that, because later on Emiliano did say it was about the main characters (not all characters) of the story.

And the aspects of the Hero's Journey helped shaped Orko and other characters in MOTU and POP successfully before, and has been successful in so many myth-type stories previously. And with MOTU and POP, we still had a very complex series of relationships between the characters.

The monomyth has been used over and over again through time, and you can vary the stages to have different impact. A monomyth could end relatively negative for the hero, for example.

Does Orko have to go through his own Hero's Journey? No, I don't think so. But his own development and growth in the classic MOTU made him a likable and also useful character to help shape those around him. We grew with him. But in MOTUC, I feel that has been stripped from Orko.

Sure, you can argue that the concept of the tyranical governing power isn't such a useful theme in relation to modern culture. But MOTU is a time of kings, tyrannism and despots. It fits perfectly in MOTU and POP.
And just like with any story telling device, if the monomyth is used poorly, you end up with more cliches and generic ideas. But it's just a general and successful platform on which to build.

Actually, they could have totally saved that bio by adding that Orko's trip to Eternia messed up his memory so he didnt realize his role until later in the future. That would have kept his nature true and his important role much better played out. I think that would have kept ALMOST everyone happier.

I don't know how it would have made almost everyone happier.
The MOTUC bio would always hanging there in the back of our minds. You'll be watching Orko grow, but always be plagued with the "truth" of who he really is. IMO, it would tarnish the experience.

[Berserker79]

I also think, that most of the biosare not well written.

They`re starting to confuse more and more.

I also agree, that it is not possible to have an avatar for own imagination while giving us all the informations at the same time.


As for Roboto`s quality issues:

It`s a shame, that the sculpt is outstanding and the production is a mass of mistakes after 2 years of MOTUC producing experience.

I don`t get it, why the weapons have to be so soft? The vintage ones are made of a hard material and stay in a perfect shape after 25 years!!!

[RocketPunch]

I enjoyed this episode of RGD a lot. And no offence to Eamon, but it was great to hear a female voice a for change!

I would have preferred the bios to be more like the ones in the old licencing guide. Just keep the basic info on the character and list their powers and abilities, similar to the Transformers or GI Joe filecards.

The actual Classics storyline would be told better in a narrative form, and since there isn't enough room on the cardbacks to do this, perhaps they could put the story up on their website. Maybe they could do something like the first few minicomics or UK annuals, which were mostly text stories with a few pieces of art to accompany it. One chapter a month wouldn't be too much too ask, would it?

I'd get Mattel to hire a better writer first though, and keep whoever was responsible for Orko's bio as far away from MOTU as possible.

[SCB]

Great podcast you guys. I never cared for Orko either, but you guys and gals, opened my mind up to why he is so important the way he already is.

[MegaGearMax]

I listened to this again at work and while I see why he's so important, I think the bio writers, MYP and Orko's detractors ALSO had a point. Orko is the children's entrance point into MOTU, but most of us are not children anymore and see him differently. Originally, I was all for ANY change to Orko and supported the bio. But now after re-watching some Filmation (Daimar the Demon-notwithstanding, a wizard, no matter how inexperienced, summoning a demon for a playmate seems DUMB to my RPG based mind), I think the bio went too far.

I think Orko could work, but moderate his childishness down to various levels. What I mean is Orko doesn't have to remind us he's this obnoxious Saturday morning cartoon mascot every time he shows up. For certain situations, he could be humorous while he could be played more "seriously" in normal or regular situations. Everytime Orko appears, it doesn't have to be "Ah, here we go.. Orko is about to do something stupid.", where each time he shows up, he's expected to do a "Jar Jar Binks"--IF anyone writing him can write an Orko who isn't funny all the time.

I think a non-funny Orko (who CAN be played for laughs occassionally, rather than all the time) could work. I'm not saying take the humor away, but simply tone it down.

Instead of making him a kid, he doesn't understand stuff because he's an alien. I wish the bio could have clarified what was already there from his most iconic appearance. He doesn't clean his room, because he hovers above any messes. Orko eats everything put in front of him at dinner, because he erroneously thinks the food is there for him to eat it all. Orko forgets to knock because they didn't do that on Trolla. I know I went off on Orko for Daimar the Demon, but even this could be explained...maybe he didn't grasp the concept of a demon.

[Tallstar]

About the cloning of the Sword of He - This is why I think it's a better idea if there was only one hero at a time tasked to protect both halves of the sword; someone who would be trained by The Goddess to either learn how to magically separate the sword themselves, or maintain a previous spell of separation placed upon the sword. This hero would be able to join the swords together, but wouldn't be able to tap into the power. That way the sword is all in one place (or in two difference places but accessible by the hero) when they go to clone it.

With the way the bios are right now, and based on what Toyguru mentioned in another thread, the swords are seemingly hidden away and being protected by two different heroes. Well, my question is... Why does keeping the swords in two different locations require training from The Goddess? Does she have a conversation with both heroes present that goes something like:

"Hero #1 you go off in that direction. Hero #2 go in the opposite direction. Be sure to stay away from each other. Now come back and let's try that again"

[Marvelous0ne]

I can handle much of the bios. But, the whole sword issue is a massive headache! And it's what I dislike the most that has been done with MOTUC. Honestly, If Toyguru was telling us the truth about how all these bios were thought out prior. There wouldn't be all these issues plaguing the bios. If Prophecy states that twins will wield the Power from the Sword of He by splitting the sword into two. Ok, I can understand that Skeletor eventually gets a hold of one. But is unable to use the power. Adam as He-Man gets the sword back from Skeletor and united them to form the whole sword again. Why not then just create the story of where The Sorceress had to split the swords again to create the Sword of Protection? Create a new back story for the sword like The Stone is what informs the Sorceress of Adora's whereabouts. She then attaches the stone to the newly split sword half. Then leads Adam on his quest to find her? At least this way we don't have the stupid cloning issue. The stone is what frees Adora from the Hordes control. Darn it all, I'm sure any fan could come up with something far better on these bios than what is being done. I say let Val and Emiliano and some other fans here from the Org create the whole back story in comic form. Or even try that motion comic form that has been around for a while. They're doing it with Buffy now! After all It seems MAtty is using elements from Buffy. Why not take it a step further!

[tmc1984]

I see what you're saying, and I don't want you to think I'm dismissing those concerns on the show.
I just feel their attitude is a step in the right direction.

Now comes the follow-through.
It's time to walk the walk.

i like the positive outlook on the mattycollector.com/wsod thing ...

i really hope this doesn't come across as sounding smug or arrogant, but i have never had a problem with ordering from mattycollector.com (touch wood) ... i think the longest i've had to wait on the wsod was about 15/20 minutes - which i guess, i can live with ...

i'm obviously one of the more fortunate ones here, and i feel for the guys who have had bad experiences ... i just can't criticize something i haven't experienced ...

I listened to this again at work and while I see why he's so important, I think the bio writers, MYP and Orko's detractors ALSO had a point. Orko is the children's entrance point into MOTU, but most of us are not children anymore and see him differently. Originally, I was all for ANY change to Orko and supported the bio. But now after re-watching some Filmation (Daimar the Demon-notwithstanding, a wizard, no matter how inexperienced, summoning a demon for a playmate seems DUMB to my RPG based mind), I think the bio went too far.

I think Orko could work, but moderate his childishness down to various levels. What I mean is Orko doesn't have to remind us he's this obnoxious Saturday morning cartoon mascot every time he shows up. For certain situations, he could be humorous while he could be played more "seriously" in normal or regular situations. Everytime Orko appears, it doesn't have to be "Ah, here we go.. Orko is about to do something stupid.", where each time he shows up, he's expected to do a "Jar Jar Binks"--IF anyone writing him can write an Orko who isn't funny all the time.

I think a non-funny Orko (who CAN be played for laughs occassionally, rather than all the time) could work. I'm not saying take the humor away, but simply tone it down.

Instead of making him a kid, he doesn't understand stuff because he's an alien. I wish the bio could have clarified what was already there from his most iconic appearance. He doesn't clean his room, because he hovers above any messes. Orko eats everything put in front of him at dinner, because he erroneously thinks the food is there for him to eat it all. Orko forgets to knock because they didn't do that on Trolla. I know I went off on Orko for Daimar the Demon, but even this could be explained...maybe he didn't grasp the concept of a demon.

as a kid - i really really really felt that orko was more important than (allegedly) he actually is ... i think penny dreadful made this remark in the show? (correct me if i am wrong) ... to me, he was prince adams 'minder' or 'protector' - at least, that's how i saw him as a 6 year old ...

i'm really not down with orko being portrayed as a simple 'court-jester' or a clumsy clown who comes across as a nuisance ...

i always try and think about how i felt as a kid when it comes to motu, and for me - that's the best way of looking at things sometimes ...

[Uncle Montork]

Does Orko have to go through his own Hero's Journey? No, I don't think so. But his own development and growth in the classic MOTU made him a likable and also useful character to help shape those around him. We grew with him. But in MOTUC, I feel that has been stripped from Orko.

But did you guys have him do exactly that in one of the last issues of the comic, when he went to find his wand?