Roast Gooble Dinner - Episode 022 Discussion!

[Khror]

I've just posted a poll about Orko.

Here is the link :
http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/...d.php?t=199055

[THE RAW]

after listening to masterscast and masters-chronicles, i wished they were weekly, now i get a weekly MotU-podcast...and i still can´t wait to the next episode...humans

[wolfsfang]

just listened and I have to say that even tho I really really love Orko, both his filmation and myp / 200x versions when I read his Classics bio my reaction was



I think Emiliano described beautifully how important Orko was to MOTU just by being Orko which was something the writers at Mattel seem to have forgotten.

But saying that part of the bio have grown on me, I like that he is now more important and not just an annoyance but I think it could have been handled a whole lot better

Oh and I think Penny Dreadful did a great job as a host

[JVS3]

I think of Count Marzo / Boba Fett in this comparison:

Count Marzo Filmation / Boba Fett ESB
***Years pass; fans develop character to be popular in fan communities***
Count Marzo MYP / Boba Fett Prequel

Of course, the difference there is MYP did a good job making Count Marzo cool.
(my apologies to any Star Wars fans I may have just upset!)

[Count Marzo]

The Boba Fett comparison refers to a character that doesn't have much screen time and we know very little about but for some reason they are a huge fan favourite.

Gotcha! Mysteriousness is one of my favorite things about MOTU. Castle Grayskull being the iconic heart of that mysteriousness.

Count Marzo didn't get much screen time, but he still appeared more than most non-Skeletor crew characters.

I think of Count Marzo / Boba Fett in this comparison:

Count Marzo Filmation / Boba Fett ESB
***Years pass; fans develop character to be popular in fan communities***
Count Marzo MYP / Boba Fett Prequel

Of course, the difference there is MYP did a good job making Count Marzo cool.
(my apologies to any Star Wars fans I may have just upset!)

I think I'm the most Star Wars ignorant person there is, especially in fan communities. I've definitely called him "Bob-uh" Fett several times before and Star Wars fans probably looked at me like "idiot noob" or something.

Anyways, MYP definitely did a great job of making Count Marzo into an awesome looking, ass-kicking villain character although I still think Filmation's Count Marzo was just a bit more evil with his magic and schemes. Filmation also had big bodyguard Chimera rather than a couple of rats.

I wouldn't be able to pick a favorite between them because both versions had their killer qualities. I will say that Count Marzo's return and role in MYP was the highlight of that series for me though! And now in MOTUC, his role is still ever expanding with the recently revealed creation of the Shadow Beasts and going more into the Eternian part...the Count Marzo uprisings which banished King Miro into another dimension. Can't say I'm disappointed with any of that!

That is only from the MOTUC bios too, I really wish we could get mini comics (or any media form for that matter) to go even further into the MOTUC storyline that is actually very well done.

[Berserker79]

Boba Fett was always a bad name for me, because "Fett" means "Fat" in german.

[Benedict Judas Hel]

I think I'm the most Star Wars ignorant person there is, especially in fan communities. I've definitely called him "Bob-uh" Fett several times before and Star Wars fans probably looked at me like "idiot noob" or something.

I can definitely attest to this fact...

[RavenousPuma]

Now when I read Emiliano and Val's posts I hear their voices in my head!

I'm one of those annoying fans that digs most of what they're doing with the new bios.

Even still I think you guys hit it bang on with the Orko bios. Orko was the link for kids in Filmation series and vintage. He had to clean his room, didn't have that much power (unless and suited the plot), had to deal with consequences of lying after breaking something etc. He was the 'everyman' or the Zander (for Buffy fans) of Masters that as a kid you could relate to.

I get what Emiliano is saying about the hero's journey as well. Essentially with Orko they've removed the background to the character and replaced it with a new character that shares the same name. This undercover watcher who seems to be much more powerful and important then the old Orko. It's not as if the bios talks about after many trials and tribulations Orko goes back to his home world and joins this Trollan order and then learns some secret he has to keep from Adam and volunteers to return to watch over the sword. From the beginning he simple becomes the James Bond of Trollans. They've reinvented him when there was really no reason to do so.

[MegaGearMax]

Now when I read Emiliano and Val's posts I hear their voices in my head!

I'm one of those annoying fans that digs most of what they're doing with the new bios.

Even still I think you guys hit it bang on with the Orko bios. Orko was the link for kids in Filmation series and vintage. He had to clean his room, didn't have that much power (unless and suited the plot), had to deal with consequences of lying after breaking something etc. He was the 'everyman' or the Zander (for Buffy fans) of Masters that as a kid you could relate to.

I get what Emiliano is saying about the hero's journey as well. Essentially with Orko they've removed the background to the character and replaced it with a new character that shares the same name. This undercover watcher who seems to be much more powerful and important then the old Orko. It's not as if the bios talks about after many trials and tribulations Orko goes back to his home world and joins this Trollan order and then learns some secret he has to keep from Adam and volunteers to return to watch over the sword. From the beginning he simple becomes the James Bond of Trollans. They've reinvented him when there was really no reason to do so.

Oh, yes there was.

There are no kids who need Orko to relate to here. This is an adult line where a Jar-Jar Bink-esque "little kid" character will be far more scrutinized.

I think Mattel went too far, but Orko needed some "straightening out" anyway. While the character should have a tendency to be light hearted, they shouldn't beat you over the head with it. This would have been a great time to re-evaluate Orko and make the old Filmation Orko more clarified so that he's not so annoying anymore.

Now if MOTU gets new media, then Orko might return to that "annoying little kid sidekick character" role, because it will be needed, but in MOTUC, it could have been a great opportunity to make Orko cooler, but not lose what he is.

[RocketPunch]

Oh, yes there was.

There are no kids who need Orko to relate to here. This is an adult line where a Jar-Jar Bink-esque "little kid" character will be far more scrutinized.

I think Mattel went too far, but Orko needed some "straightening out" anyway. While the character should have a tendency to be light hearted, they shouldn't beat you over the head with it. This would have been a great time to re-evaluate Orko and make the old Filmation Orko more clarified so that he's not so annoying anymore.

Now if MOTU gets new media, then Orko might return to that "annoying little kid sidekick character" role, because it will be needed, but in MOTUC, it could have been a great opportunity to make Orko cooler, but not lose what he is.

The main reason I dislike this attempt to reinvent Orko is that the figure itself is nearly identical to his Filmation design. So his bio should have reflected that. This line is primarily about nostalgia, not rewriting characters personalities. And not all of us found Orko annoying, you know.

If they really want to try a fresh take on Orko they should save it for something like G.I. Joe Resolute, with a redesigned, more serious looking Orko to match his new "superspy" persona.

[MegaGearMax]

The main reason I dislike this attempt to reinvent Orko is that the figure itself is nearly identical to his Filmation design. So his bio should have reflected that. This line is primarily about nostalgia, not rewriting characters personalities. And not all of us found Orko annoying, you know.

If they really want to try a fresh take on Orko they should save it for something like G.I. Joe Resolute, with a redesigned, more serious looking Orko to match his new "superspy" persona.

This is something like IDW's G1 versus Dreamwave's G1. MOTUC is it's own era, as we're constantly reminded with each bio.

MOTUC is a new era with quite a few changes, just like The Barbarian He-Man era was different from the Prince Adam era. Orko in Classics isn't Vintage/Filmation Orko, nor is he 200X/MYP Orko. Each era there are changes. The problem with Orko was the changes were too drastic.

The LOOK and STYLE are nostalgic. Not the story behind them, which is a mixed-matched new storyline composed of early mini-comics and MYP and contains many new elements.

[Penny Dreadful]

I'm suprised they didn't mention Mekaneck in there as his arch enemy. That is the main thing that the Filmation and MYP forms of Count Marzo share imo.

Yes! I agree. It could have indicated that Count Marzo seems to take particular pleasure in tormenting Mekaneck. Maybe Mekaneck's bio will mention that he holds a grudge against Marzo or something.

~Penny~

[RocketPunch]

This is something like IDW's G1 versus Dreamwave's G1. MOTUC is it's own era, as we're constantly reminded with each bio.

MOTUC is a new era with quite a few changes, just like The Barbarian He-Man era was different from the Prince Adam era. Orko in Classics isn't Vintage/Filmation Orko, nor is he 200X/MYP Orko. Each era there are changes. The problem with Orko was the changes were too drastic.

The LOOK and STYLE are nostalgic. Not the story behind them, which is a mixed-matched new storyline composed of early mini-comics and MYP and contains many new elements.

They've added some new elements, but overall the Classics canon seems to draw largely on existing material or unused concepts from the proposed 3rd season of MYP. In my opinion the bio writers are at their best when they utilise older elements, as many of the new ideas they're coming up with leave a lot to be desired.

Was it really necessary to give She-Ra a cloned sword, merge Keldor with Demo-Man, or turn Orko into Nibbler?

[MegaGearMax]

They've added some new elements, but overall the Classics canon seems to draw largely on existing material or unused concepts from the proposed 3rd season of MYP. In my opinion the bio writers are at their best when they utilise older elements, as many of the new ideas they're coming up with leave a lot to be desired.

Was it really necessary to give She-Ra a cloned sword, merge Keldor with Demo-Man, or turn Orko into Nibbler?

Then again, calling the heroes the "Masters of the Universe", Teela being a clone, the techno-vest and two halves of the Power Sword were all older, yet unpopular ideas (depending on who you ask) from the first year of the mythos.

Not even the really old ideas are that well received.

However, I do agree with you. The bio writers need a story editor, because there are a bunch of plot holes and inconsistencies within the new universe that they are creating. We are only getting pieces of the story at a time, which has to frustrate the hell out of everyone and make Val's head hurt. We don't even know if we're getting warmer, colder or even close to discovering the big picture. TG has said that by mid 2012, we should have a greater understanding of where these bios are ultimately heading.

[RavenousPuma]

Hmmmm that's a good point too MegaGearMax.

This isn't intended as a series for kids AND I do find Orko annoying when I see him in Filmation as an adult. Even still I think I would have been happier if this Orko was still that version in the bios and then something more like the 200X version could have been done later on in the storyline as the leveled up Orko. Maybe after the heroes are on the run as outlaws and the POP crew comes over to help?

[Eamon]

For the record, I am not as passionate about Orko as my fellow broadcasters.

There are some things that I will differ to other opinion and in this case Emiliano. After hearing what he said, I will agree that Orko's role has been reduced by this bio.

But just because he was sent to Eternia to watch over Adam, does that mean he still cannot have the progessive role as a relatable point of view?

I just wonder if the intention on Orko's bio was to add that on top of what already is established? Just because it doesn't say something doesn't neccesarly make it so?

I am open to correction here!

[Count Marzo]

Yes! I agree. It could have indicated that Count Marzo seems to take particular pleasure in tormenting Mekaneck. Maybe Mekaneck's bio will mention that he holds a grudge against Marzo or something.

~Penny~

That's very possible! In fact I guarantee Mekaneck's bio will have Count Marzo mentioned in it. After all he did "free" Count Marzo by getting his amulet and Evil-Lyn can't do it every time.

[MegaGearMax]

That's very possible! In fact I guarantee Mekaneck's bio will have Count Marzo mentioned in it. After all he did "free" Count Marzo by getting his amulet and Evil-Lyn can't do it every time.

Mekaneck going up against Count Marzo was the greatest thing to happen in his life.
But to Count Marzo...it was Tuesday.

[RocketPunch]

Mekaneck going up against Count Marzo was the greatest thing to happen in his life.
But to Count Marzo...it was Tuesday.

I dunno, he may have held a grudge against him for defeating him in that same episode. And in the Filmation toon he kidnapped his son Philip. (hopefully that makes it into Mekaneck's bio too). I like to think of Marzo and Mekaneck as archenemies, even though Mek is seriously outmatched.

[Count Marzo]

I dunno, he may have held a grudge against him for defeating him in that same episode. And in the Filmation toon he kidnapped his son Philip. (hopefully that makes it into Mekaneck's bio too). I like to think of Marzo and Mekaneck as archenemies, even though Mek is seriously outmatched.

Count Marzo didn't necessarily kidnap Mekaneck's son, Philip. He saved him when he was separated from Mekaneck in a crazy storm. He just happened to keep his son and attempted to use him as bait to get Mekaneck to deliver the King and Queen to him in exchange.

Finders keepers!

[EagleOne]

To me, Orko is an innocent character who, despite his shortcomings, is innately good and loyal to his friends. As Val and Emiliano said, he is the heart of MOTU. I always felt he would grow to learn just how important he is over time. As Emiliano said, it is important that Orko follow his own path in the hero's journey. Slapping this secret agent stuff on the character utterly undermines everything the character was, sadly destroys his innocence and sincerity (which I feel are essential), and kills any potential for what the character could have been. MOTUC Orko is a case where this character simply isn't even Orko anymore.

I know this is an old show (playing catch up) but was listening and had a few thoughts.

1st: Orko was one of the reasons that kids fell in love with masters of the universe. As a kid I could relate to Orko, in the "wanting to do something to help but being too small and clumbsy to" way. In the MYP series I really don't like Orko. He's foolish, not childish. I honestly think that is why kids didn't jump on the show and fall in love with it (no easily relatable characters for kids). I'm can still turn on my child-like perceptions of Cartoon TV Shows and still relate to those types of characters, even though I'm a 28 year old Engineer.

2nd: I want a new show that reaches kids where they are. The only way this line survives and stays profitable until the day I die, is if new generations are brought into the fold. We need kids (from about 5-10 yrs old) as excited for He-man as they currently are for Ben 10 and Star Wars.

3rd: In this bio I don't see Orko as a spy. He was sent from Trolla to Eternia as a guardian/ally. Which I think fits into the story we already know. The Overlords (not a fan of this concept by the way) send a helper to aid in He-man's cause for good, so they send one of their rising star mages, Orko the Great. He doesn't know why he's being sent but knows that it is important for something. He's sent to where Adam is sinking in a slime bog. He arrives ready to help but Eternia short circuits his power and he's at best a beginner magician from another world trying to figure out what's going on. So he relies on his loyalty and courage to help while trying to mature in an Eternian way.