Official Talkback Thread: The Dark Knight Rises

[Mr. Shokoti]

That was a much better choice then Maggie, I think Katie Holmes is a fantastic actress who just picks bad roles.

To be honest, I didn't have a problem with Katie Holmes in Batman Begins but I know a lot of other people did. Having said that, I don't think she has much range as an actress and feel Maggie Gyllenhaal is a million times better than her(although she really wasn't given much to do in The Dark Knight).

I just think you are too critical, my main problem with Nolan are his movies run too long. He needs to surround himself with a better editor

Maybe I am with some things, but I stand by my opinion that Nolan is far from perfect. I actually think Batman Begins is the only movie of his where I can't think of any problems. I could go on & on listing problems from his other movies(again, usually problems with the script), but I'll save you from that.

Dark Knight is a perfect example, it was like two movies into one. They could have totally made a 2nd movie about Eckhart turning into Two Face.

I agree it was too long. Besides wishing they had clipped that pretentious dialogue between Gary Oldman and the awful "actor" playing his son at the movie's end(I may be critical but I've heard both critics & non-critics alike make similar complaints about that scene & kid actor), was that bit with the boats full of civilians & criminals really necessary? I'm left leaning on most issues but that seemed like something out of the liberal handbook. My eyes rolled so hard with that little "twist", I thought they were going to fall out of my head.

[SCB]

Just heard on the radio Naomi Watts is cast as Vicky Vale, posting from my phone so can someone confirm or deny?

[Darkspecter]

hell even BTAS didnt get her right.

What was wrong with BTAS Catwoman? She was a jewel thief, animal activist and a socialite. She gave the bats a run for his money while being playful/flirty and really in love with him. When they changed her to the Batman Returns costume she became more cold and "all about herself." I liked her look better, but not the character. She was okay, but I felt she was better written before.

I also don't like the stories where Catwoman was a prostitute...

I'm not happy Anne Hathaway is going to be Catwoman. I read the rumours about her getting the part before, but thought they were just ridiculous casting rumours you always hear.

She's a very good actress, but I think she's totally wrong for Catwoman.

[Mr. Shokoti]

Vicky Vale means nothing to me but I've loved Naomi Watts since Mulholland Dr.

I also don't like the stories where Catwoman was a prostitute...

Neither do I. Blame Frank Miller. Besides the fact that, more often than not, the women he writes are prostitutes(either in profession or lifestyle), he's done far more harm than good with the Batman franchise imo.

[Darkspecter]

Just heard on the radio Naomi Watts is cast as Vicky Vale, posting from my phone so can someone confirm or deny?

I found a few sites saying Naomi Watts is Vicki Vale and Eva Green is Talia al Ghul...but nothin really "official."

http://www.moviehole.net/201135579-n...k-knight-rises

http://www.nolanfans.com/2011/01/11/...-knight-rises/

[SCB]

Eva Green would be a good choice for Talia actually. I was thinking yesterday about Naommi Watts being a love interest for Bruce, didn't think Vicky Vale, that be good too.

[Optimus Prime]

Not that familiar with Tom Hardy. I've seen Inception and Black Hawk Down, but I can't place him. I haven't seen Band of Brothers yet.

Have you seen Star Trek: Nemesis? He played Shinzon

[SCB]

If you want to see something completely different from Hardy, watch Bronson. It's kind of a Chopper rip off, but he's unrecognizable and huge in that.

[Lord_Of_Destruction]

I like Naomi Watts (though admittedly my favorite role of hers I can think of is in King Kong -hey I liked it!) But I'm not sure about her as Viki Vale (also isn't Viki supposed to be a redhead?) frankly I think I''m more unsure of Viki Vale.

Eva Green as Talia I can see.

I'm kinda wondering about Tom hardy as Bane. He'll need to beef up a lot to pass as the big guy.

[Darkspecter]

I'm kinda wondering about Tom hardy as Bane. He'll need to beef up a lot to pass as the big guy.

I found a couple semi-beefy pictures of him:





He's not quite this though:

[Lord_Of_Destruction]

okay looking at that second picture I can see it

[Mr. Shokoti]

Have you seen Star Trek: Nemesis?

AKA the movie that almost killed the entire Star Trek franchise.

I just found out yesterday that the villain from that movie was the same guy in Inception. It's almost hard to believe.

I like Naomi Watts (though admittedly my favorite role of hers I can think of is in King Kong -hey I liked it!)

There's nothing wrong with that. I liked that film as well. Unfortunately, they made Kong such a sad & sympathetic character(way more than even the 70's remake), I don't think I'll ever be able to watch it again. I'm just too much of an animal lover.

But I'm not sure about her as Viki Vale (also isn't Viki supposed to be a redhead?)

It didn't hurt Tim Burton's Vicki Vale.

[wyldman11]

AKA the movie that almost killed the entire Star Trek franchise.

I just found out yesterday that the villain from that movie was the same guy in Inception. It's almost hard to believe.

Well that isn't saying much since I would say out of the 11 movies only about 5 of them are worth watching again. But that is a thread jump. But I would say Tom Hardy was far from the worst thing about Nemesis.

[Mr. Shokoti]

Well that isn't saying much since I would say out of the 11 movies only about 5 of them are worth watching again. But that is a thread jump. But I would say Tom Hardy was far from the worst thing about Nemesis.

I just want to add, since Markatisu thinks I'm too critical of things, that Nemesis is the only Star Trek movie other than JJ Abrams' wildly uneven effort that I didn't enjoy. I'm not even a Star Trek fan(I can count on one hand how many entire episodes I've seen of any Star Trek TV show), but I found all of the other 9 movies entertaining enough that I would have no problem sitting down & watching them again.

Back to Batman.

[Lord_Of_Destruction]

It didn't hurt Tim Burton's Vicki Vale.

that's a matter of opinion. Much as I like the movie I wasn't fond of Kim Bassinger's Vale. Also from what I've heard she was a last minute replacement.

[Darkspecter]

that's a matter of opinion. Much as I like the movie I wasn't fond of Kim Bassinger's Vale. Also from what I've heard she was a last minute replacement.

I thought she was good. I've only watched the movie once though. I don't care for the first movie too much. I was very happy with the ending though.

Batman Returns is where it's at!

[Mr. Shokoti]

that's a matter of opinion. Much as I like the movie I wasn't fond of Kim Bassinger's Vale. Also from what I've heard she was a last minute replacement.

I wasn't basing that on my personal opinion, just the fact that the movie was a huge hit. Even when I was a little kid, Burton's first Batman movie left me underwhelmed. As an adult, I can't even watch it anymore. The only things I still like in it are Michael Keaton(he may not look like Bruce Wayne, but he's my favorite live action Batman of all time), Michael Gough(although I like Michael Caine as Alfred more), Batman's costume, and Danny Elfman's score(almost as good, imho, as John Williams's Superman).

Batman Returns is where it's at!

Depending on my mood, I can still sit through Batman Returns since I'm a sucker for movies set at Christmas time and I thought the performances by Keaton, Gough, Pfeiffer, & DeVito were quite good. Tonally and as an adaptation of Batman's universe is where I take issue with it.

[Darkspecter]

Depending on my mood, I can still sit through Batman Returns since I'm a sucker for movies set at Christmas time and I thought the performances by Keaton, Gough, Pfeiffer, & DeVito were quite good. Tonally and as an adaptation of Batman's universe is where I take issue with it.

Out of all the Batman movies (except for Dark Knight...I haven't seen it, so I can't judge it), I think Returns is the best film. Best acting, best characters, I think the costumes and vehicles are better. I just enjoyed it better overall.

Especially Catwoman. Her costume unravels throughout the movie as does her sanity. I never really made the connection until I watched the special feature about her costume.

I enjoyed Cillian Murphy as the Scare Crow a lot (creepy as hell!) and Bale as Batman is good, but I preferred Keaton...but the Michael Gough will always be Alfred. I did not enjoy Michael Kane as Alfred...at all. Good actor, bad Alfred.

Katie Holmes is a good actress...but it was just "Katie Holmes" in a Batman film. I think a lesser known actress would have been a better choice.

I also found the long training backstory fairly boring. I know it has to be done to properly tell a story, but it didn't excite me by any means. The movie is basically enjoyable once he gets the ridiculous looking Batmobile.

I know everyone's different, but that's how I feel.

[Mr. Shokoti]

Katie Holmes is a good actress...but it was just "Katie Holmes" in a Batman film. I think a lesser known actress would have been a better choice.

Imo, Katie Holmes hasn't elevated herself as an actress since Dawson's Creek(which I'm embarassed to say I only missed one episode of). At one point she was the breakout star of that show but now Michelle Williams has all of the critics love while Joshua Jackson has a stronger career(although she won the lottery when she decided to become the "Bride Of Scientology"). I don't know what happened to poor James Van Der Beek since I actually thought he was a decent actor.

[gbagok]

I'm sorry to still see the 89 Batman get the bad marks again. I loved it, it was my Jaws. It was years later before I knew that it was out of character for Batman to have all those guns on his vehicles, but that will never spoil it because the movie gave me a vision I loved. I still don't hold it against the film for things like letting Vicky Vale in the Bat Cave. That she was swept under the rug in sequels cheapened that more than letting her in on the secret. Also I loved Basinger as Vale, that's part of the movie that's just above reproach for me.

I will love it if Eva Green is Talia. I like Naomi Watts as Vale. I like both their casting better than the Vultress herself as Catwoman. But I don't like them all in the same movie, particularly one that's supposedly the end of a trilogy. I'm hoping it means that WB is NOT planning to reboot the franchise and will simply continue the continuity that Nolan has started. I still do not think that his style cannot mesh with more fantastic elements like Mr. Freeze, Killer Croc, and Man Bat. It doesn't sound like he's the director for those subjects, and maybe Bale isn't the star for it either, but this movie universe isn't limited to just crime dramas. It can handle magic, Lazarus Pits, Meta-humans, a non-Se7en-reinvented Riddler, and even Robin. I just hope that the third movie doesn't waste so many plots in a rushed delivery (like X-Men 3 and Spider-Man 3 did), that a reboot is the only option to make it interesting again.

Also, I loved Selina Kyle as a blond. That doesn't mean I needed a blond here, in fact I like to see her with long dark hair because I think it's good for her to remind Bruce of Rachel in appearance. But BTAS's rendering was great. So too was Eartha Kitt's. There's a lot of ways to get her wrong, but skin and hair color isn't among them.

[Mirage]

I'm sorry to still see the 89 Batman get the bad marks again. I loved it, it was my Jaws. It was years later before I knew that it was out of character for Batman to have all those guns on his vehicles, but that will never spoil it because the movie gave me a vision I loved. I still don't hold it against the film for things like letting Vicky Vale in the Bat Cave.

Bruce Wayne agreed with you in Batman Returns:

Bruce Wayne: Security? Who let Vicki Vale into the Batcave? I'm sitting there working and I turn around, there she is. "Oh hi, Vick - come on in."

[the_ultimate_evil]

rachel weisz for tailia no arguements

[Thatman]

I still haven't heard anything official on Vicki Vale or Talia, but I won't be surprised if we do hear something very soon.

Re: the older film series, I think each of the first three has something to recommend it, and something to detract from it.

For example:

Batman: Great atmosphere, Jack Nicholson, the Batmobile, but a Batman who opens up on people with a machine gun, in a world where Joker killed Batman's parents.

Batman Returns: Hands down, the best musical score Batman ever had, and a fantastic Catwoman, but a gruesome slathering Penguin and a plot (power plant/mayoral campaign/kill the babies) that made no sense.

Batman Forever: Fantastic Riddler, less angst, and (IMO) a great Batman, but overly campy with too many questionable choices (i.e. nipples). But this is the one I'd really like to see a director's cut for, with all the deleted scenes on the DVD and then some.

Batman & Robin: Let's not go there.

Just my two cents. As for Katie Holmes, I don't think she was a bad choice - but her real-world persona interfered with the movie, and casts a strange image, so it's hard to take her at face value. I had no problem with Gyllenhall, though.

[wallbie]

Anne Hathaway as Catwoman? I can dig that. It's a lot better than Angelina Jolie or *blech!* Megan Fox. Personally, I'd have rather seen Mila Kunis in the role especially after her performance in Book of Eli.

[Blue Jester]

I have a hard time seeing Mila in anything then a comedy, and I've seen Book of Eli and Black Swan....and Max Payne.


I just started playing Arkham Asylum for my 360 and just beat Bane. Please tell me this is NOT how he's being treated in the comics.


Thankfully Nolan generally uses good characterization.