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Thread: Trollans, Twiggets and Maddam Razz

  1. #1
    Heroic Eternian Mechanic TechTrek's Avatar
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    Trollans, Twiggets and Maddam Razz

    what do you guys think about these "races" and characters. Do you think they should be related, or do you think that the bios can connect them in anyway?

    I always use to think (because of how they drew her) that maddam Razz should be Trollan, or related to them.


    I like the Twidgets, and think that they can be expaned also.

    what do you all think about these characters?

  2. #2
    Heroic Warrior
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    As a rule, I HATE any character that's sole purpose is to screw up or be cheap comic relief.

    Razz DEFINITELY fits that role, as do the Twidgets...

    Based on appearances... She has legs, so I don't think she's a trollan... but she DRESSES like one... soo.... the only obvious answer is that either she accidently cast a spell to grow legs... or she accidentaly KILLED a trollan and stole his clothes...

  3. #3
    Why not? j-bird's Avatar
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    I think Madame Razz is a Twigget (not "Twidget") - she has (approximately) the same shorter stature, the same lavender skin, and the same white hair. She also lives in the Whispering Woods. The connections seem numerous and obvious.

    I don't, however, think The Twiggets and the Trollans are related. The Trollans are floaty, blue, and magical, whereas the Twiggets always struck me as a cross between a halfling/hobbit and a dryad.

    I don't think the Twiggets (or the Trollans) are related to the Widgets (from Filmation He-Man) either.

    I've never been a huge fan of any of those races as depicted in Filmation, but I'm willing to admit that they have some potential (re-vamping the Widgets into something more like a dwarf from "traditional" fantasy properties, for example). I don't think the races need to be related, however.

    The above, however, is just my opinion and everybody has (and is entitled to) their own personal vision of how MotU/PoP works. That's half the fun of it.

  4. #4
    "Oh dearie my!" Mer-Man's Minion's Avatar
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    I LOVE Madame Razz! I had a special affinity for her as a little boy, and that continues to this day.


    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    As a rule, I HATE any character that's sole purpose is to screw up or be cheap comic relief.

    Razz DEFINITELY fits that role, as do the Twidgets...

    Based on appearances... She has legs, so I don't think she's a trollan... but she DRESSES like one... soo.... the only obvious answer is that either she accidently cast a spell to grow legs... or she accidentaly KILLED a trollan and stole his clothes...
    I disagree. Madame Razz's sole purpose isn't just to "screw up" or be "cheap comic relief". Does she screw up? Many times, yes. Is she comic relief? Yes, more so especially to those who like or love her. But she also does have her own worth of wisdom and knowledge of Etherian history, which helps keep her grounded. Plus, another role of hers is like a "guiding aunt" figure to Adora, and to a lesser extent Bow and Glimmer (I personally love this side of her). All these layers combine to create a fascinating, entertaining, richly-layered character IMO.


    Quote Originally Posted by j-bird View Post
    I think Madame Razz is a Twigget (not "Twidget") - she has (approximately) the same shorter stature, the same lavender skin, and the same white hair. She also lives in the Whispering Woods. The connections seem numerous and obvious.
    I don't think she's a Twigget. Well, not a "pure" or "full" Twigget, anyway. In arguing your points, she's still bigger than the Twiggets, she's portrayed as much older (whereas Twiggets are portrayed as younger, though actual age ranges aren't given---but), so I like to think she's been around hundreds of years before the first Twigget even appeared, and she has had her own life outside of the Whispering Woods. I see where you're comin' from, but I just can't reconcile Razz as a fully-fleged Twigget.
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    Leader of the Evil Horde Hordak's Avatar
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    I see these characters as pure campiness. Filmation loved adding in silly little comic relief characters. Lou Scheimer admitted this was common practice with all of their cartoons. Razz may have had some development (so did Orko) but her silly appearance, goofy voice and bumbling around are what most people remember.

    When it comes to weird Disney-like critters Etheria has a bunch. They also like to share screen time. He-Man had Orko and his Trollan friends from time to time. The Widgets were not in that many episodes so most of the time Orko was the main goofball. You could also say Gwildor fits this role as well in the live action film.

    She-Ra had Kowl who was cute but clever, Loo-Kee the hide and seek fanatic, the Twiggets and Madame Razz. Wow I almost forgot about Imp.
    Once you throw the Manchines in the mix you get cute little sidekick overload!

    To answer the question though I like some small characters just not an abundance.
    Last edited by Hordak; November 7, 2010 at 04:12pm.
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  6. #6
    Why not? j-bird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mer-Man's Minion View Post
    I don't think she's a Twigget. Well, not a "pure" or "full" Twigget, anyway. In arguing your points, she's still bigger than the Twiggets, she's portrayed as much older (whereas Twiggets are portrayed as younger, though actual age ranges aren't given---but), so I like to think she's been around hundreds of years before the first Twigget even appeared, and she has had her own life outside of the Whispering Woods. I see where you're comin' from, but I just can't reconcile Razz as a fully-fleged Twigget.
    She does seem older, but to me that's just because she is older - to me, Razz is just older than the (other?) Twiggets we see because she's a magic user (a fairly common convention).

    I'm sure there are (or were) older Twiggets somewhere, but we only really get any significant "face time" with three (four, if you count Razz) members of this race during the course of the series ... and they're the ones directly involved with the Great Rebellion. They'll logically be the younger/fitter ones. None of the humans (well, very few of the humans) we see in either He-Man or She-Ra are in anything other than their prime. Since the Twiggets are tied to / part of the Whispering Woods, it's also plausible that the various Horde attacks on the woods were too much for the older (presumably weaker) Twiggets to survive.

    Personally, I don't see her pre-dating the entire Twigget race.

    She's also not that much bigger than the other Twiggets, and to me that could be (and this is just a theory, I'm not sure I believe it myself) explained by her age. The Twiggets are tied to the Whispering Woods, and many (not all) plants continue to grow as they age ... so, basically, she's bigger because she's older. It could also be that she's female ... isn't Spritina taller than the two male Twiggets (they are male, right)?

    I can see her being "part" Twigget though (have one Twigget parent or some Twigget ancestry).

    Anyway, I'm not really trying to sway your opinion ... just enjoying the discussion. I hope I don't come across as argumentative!

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    Oracle of Fabulousity Kevenn's Avatar
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    I guess we're forgetting the episode that actually showed the Twigget kingdom and how they had an older king and queen. If Madame Razz is related to the Twiggets, I'd like to think they're a race that somehow spawned off from her (whether intentionally or not) a coupla' hundred years ago. Perhaps they are some sort of manifestation of her and the spirit of Whispering Woods. I like my Madame Razz ancient and immortal.
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  8. #8
    "Oh dearie my!" Mer-Man's Minion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j-bird View Post
    Anyway, I'm not really trying to sway your opinion ... just enjoying the discussion. I hope I don't come across as argumentative!
    No worries, j-bird. I still staunchly believe in my theory/theories, so I'm afraid I'm on this side of the line over here with Kevenn, facing you on the opposite side. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't reach across it and shake your hand in Etherian friendship. lol
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    Heroic Warrior
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    I definitely think Madame Razz is a Twigget. A wise, old and powerful one. (I think the crazy old biddy act is just that, an act. Sadly they never dealt with her backstory in great detail.) The Idea she's a Trollan with legs seems...odd when there's a race of purple skinned people with legs running around.
    I was hoping and praying for a She-Ra series during the MYP He-Man series that would Re-imagine the Twiggets to be more like Elves (The Lord of the Rings kind, not the Keebler kind) And Madame Razz would be their Wise Woman/Shaman. They'd revere and love her, and she'd act like the Traditional shaman, but behind closed doors she'd pull out the Filmation old Yenta shtick. (of course When Adora/She-Ra meet as the Twiggets she'd put on an updated Madame Razz costume "For Riding, Dearie,It gets awfully cold flying around on a broom!")

  10. #10
    Ravage ThunderCat blackiecats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevenn View Post
    I guess we're forgetting the episode that actually showed the Twigget kingdom and how they had an older king and queen.
    I don't recall such an episode Are you sure your not thinking of The Bibbet Story?

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    Oracle of Fabulousity Kevenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiecats View Post
    I don't recall such an episode Are you sure your not thinking of The Bibbet Story?
    Nope, not The Bibbet Story. There was an episode where the Twigget kingdom was being harrassed by the Horde, and it showed the Twigget King & Queen, and I remember it distinctly because most of the Twigget clothing shown had a very "primative" look - very simple, with a lot of bare legs and/or arms, and the Twigget Queen had a crown and a floor length dress, like she was the Twigget Marlena.

    I'm trying to find the episode in the Episode guides online, since I'm at work and don't have access to my DVD sets.

    Found it! The episode was "Bow's Farewell." You can see a picture of the Twigget King and Queen on this page at the bottom:

    http://www.darah.com/she-ra/usrg/episodes/28/ep28.asp
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    I think that Madame Razz and Gwildor are more related to each other than anybody else, even though he was live-action and she was a cartoon character.

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    Heroic Warrior LostIt2Bostik's Avatar
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    I always thought Razz sounded like a cross between Edith Massey and Cyndi Lauper.
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  14. #14
    TWIGGET ENTHUSIAST! Swifty's Avatar
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    First of all, Cyndi Lauper rocks.

    Secondly, I have always looked at Madame Razz as at least half Twigget. There has to be some connection there.
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    Heroic Warrior Eternian-King Paul's Avatar
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    I would say,, the best use of an alien in good story and charater structure is one that is away from home and either running away or trying to get back, but clearly out of place in the veiw of the audience.

    Orko is that character at best as an actual alien away from his planet hopelessly trying to get back.
    This never had a clear effect or affect on others in the filmation show, but if a proper story is ever used in a movie, Orko will be pivital to that story.

    ..otherwise Twiggets and Twaggets and Twoggets are just a outer-worldly representation of 'that weird-o that is always around and is anoying and stuff'.
    (..oh, and hopefully no one thinks of me this way.)

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    Elder of Grayskull flutterina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
    Secondly, I have always looked at Madame Razz as at least half Twigget. There has to be some connection there.
    That's what I've always thought. She sort of looks like an older (much older) version of Spritina. The twiggets all seem to revere her like an elder, but at the same time tease her for her incompetence.

  17. #17
    Heroic Warrior King Gilskull's Avatar
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    I also got the impression Madame Razz was a Twigget. I just assumed Twiggets grow in height as they get older, and her unique clothes was due to age and her special status and tastes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I also have a lot of respect for Razz. Absence minded aside, I've seen plenty of episodes where she gives some pretty wise common sense advice and Adora seeks her out for input, like that one where Adora thought the rebels were beginning to rely on her too much (epsidoe title escapes me at the moment)

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    Elder of Grayskull flutterina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Gilskull View Post
    I also got the impression Madame Razz was a Twigget. I just assumed Twiggets grow in height as they get older, and her unique clothes was due to age and her special status and tastes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I also have a lot of respect for Razz. Absence minded aside, I've seen plenty of episodes where she gives some pretty wise common sense advice and Adora seeks her out for input, like that one where Adora thought the rebels were beginning to rely on her too much (epsidoe title escapes me at the moment)
    I believe you're thinking of "One to Count On"; a great episode IMO and one of my favorites!

  19. #19
    TWIGGET ENTHUSIAST! Swifty's Avatar
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    Let's not forget that, for all of the times her spells didn't work as expected, Razz and her magic were used very effectively on a regular basis. She has emerged victorious going toe to toe (or toe to air?) with Shadow Weaver after all.
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    Heroic Warrior King Gilskull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
    Let's not forget that, for all of the times her spells didn't work as expected, Razz and her magic were used very effectively on a regular basis. She has emerged victorious going toe to toe (or toe to air?) with Shadow Weaver after all.
    Save the day consistantly, becomes part of the job. Crash into a few trees and make a giant pancake, that's all anyone remembers.

  21. #21
    "Oh dearie my!" Mer-Man's Minion's Avatar
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    Also, if I'm correct, Madame Razz was an established character before any Twiggets showed up. After all Razz is there from the very beginning, but I don't know when the first Twiggets were shown (haven't watched POP in a long time---but this thread is making me want to! lol)

    So who knows, maybe when they created Twiggets, the POP folks said, "Hey, Razz is smaller and purple, why don't make these Twiggets purple too, and even smaller, magical 'people of the wood', like Razz is a magical witch?"

    Who knows?
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  22. #22
    TWIGGET ENTHUSIAST! Swifty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mer-Man's Minion View Post
    Also, if I'm correct, Madame Razz was an established character before any Twiggets showed up. After all Razz is there from the very beginning, but I don't know when the first Twiggets were shown (haven't watched POP in a long time---but this thread is making me want to! lol)

    So who knows, maybe when they created Twiggets, the POP folks said, "Hey, Razz is smaller and purple, why don't make these Twiggets purple too, and even smaller, magical 'people of the wood', like Razz is a magical witch?"

    Who knows?
    Sprag was introduced before Madame Razz in The Secret of the Sword. Twiggets were there from the very beginning ... another reason for them deserving a spot in the Classics line!
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  23. #23
    Elder of Grayskull flutterina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
    Sprag was introduced before Madame Razz in The Secret of the Sword. Twiggets were there from the very beginning ... another reason for them deserving a spot in the Classics line!
    I wholeheartedly agree with this statement!

    Razz is like the Twigget matron. They seek her advice, and trust her judgement. They're aware of her blundering but still depend on her. Even though it's never been established I've always believed that Madame Razz is a Twigget.

  24. #24
    "Oh dearie my!" Mer-Man's Minion's Avatar
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    Hmm, I still say there are enough differences to where she is not a Twigget, but she could be connected to them. Where are the POP creators when ya need 'em? lol
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    Heroic Warrior Clawful94's Avatar
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    I don't think Madame Razz was Twigget because in the episode "The Peril Of Whispering Woods", the Twiggets were effected by the destruction of the forest, while Madame Razz wasn't.

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