Is MOTUC Too Vintage Or Just Right?

[Mr. Shokoti]

There seem to be some people upset with every MOTUC toy released that is based on a character from the original line. They feel they are just straight "remakes" of the vintage toys. Unless sales start dropping & it takes days for any new toys to sell out, I really don't see that "problem" getting fixed anytime soon.

What does that mean to you MOTUC collectors out there?

[phantom1592]

I love the vintage designs, and never really liked any of the 'updates' that 200x brought.

I have no problem with 200x added stuff... as long as it's removable. However if they start 'mixing' too much... theres a pretty good chance what a lot of people see as 'improvements' will ruin the characters for me.

[Mr. Karate]

I understand that MOTUC is supposed to be all about the Vintage look and that's just fine but their new policy about 200X heads and their seemingly random release of 200X characters leaves me a bit confused at times. I'm the kind of collector that only purchases one representation of a character so I don't know whether to purchase Buzz Off or wait and see if they come out with a 200X style Buzz Off eventually.

Most of the time I will choose the vintage look but in other cases I feel the 200X look is much better so I'd hate to purchase a figure to complete my team and have the "better looking" version come out a few months later. Then again even with the same exact figures, ala He-Man and King Grayskull, they've had superior releases after the initial release.

Good thing the MOTUC aftermarket isn't too bad.

[Mr. Shokoti]

Personally, I disagree with those upset by the "remakes". None of them have been 100% remakes due to added details, touches of 2002 designs & weapons, and the fact that MOTUC toys are larger & have better posture than the vintage line. To be honest, the only options are vintage designs(I feel most of those still hold up today), 2002 designs(I'm not a fan and I don't feel there is one design from that era that I feel improved on the vintage designs), or something new(we're getting plenty of new characters like Vikor & Mo-Larr; since I like most of the old designs, I really don't want to see 2002 2.0 designs). As long as any 2002 details are removable(poor Webstor) or any new details are an improvement(Man-At-Arm's added weapons), I'm happy.

You forgot a balance--a middle ground.

No I didn't. If you feel there is too much "vintage" in MOTUC, you Wish The Line Was Even More "2002" In Design. That would bring it up to "a middle ground".

A straight up 200X translation is carbon copying 200X, while a straight up vintage translation is carbon copying the vintage line. We have those figures already. What we don't have is a mixture of both with even more new ideas. MOTUC should be it's own era unto itself.

Aren't you the same person who has been campaigning for a 2002 He-Man in this line since it first started? MOTUC He-Man's hair & face are different from his vintage head and MOTUC has already released his vintage & 2002 weapons & armor in one way or another. Isn't that a mixture of both with new ideas?

[Berserker79]

I wish it would be more vintage.

[MegaGearMax]

I wish it would be more vintage.

If Classics were anymore Vintage, they would be commemoratives of the original figures!

[baronterror]

to my tastes perfection

[dedset13]

To me, it means that Mattel has finally realized what sells the best. I know that there is a strong support for the 200X designs and I'm sure they would sell as well, but I don't think they'd be anywhere near as successful as the vintage designs. The vintage look has been the driving force of this line since day 1. Even the first character released (King Grayskull) had a very vintage He-Man look to him because of the large bulky buck used to make him.

I for one am extremely glad that Mattel has taken this direction with the MOTUC line. It was what I would have preferred to see in 2002 instead of the newly designed relaunch. I can only dream about how awesome the 200X show could have been with a vintage look, the continuing story lines and slightly more mature subject matter that the 200X toon had.

[MegaGearMax]

You forgot a balance--a middle ground.

DOM4 said it best. "A balance between Vintage and 200X in order to get The Best of Both Worlds". In other words, figures should be the vintage version, but should come with all the necessary parts (removable heads, weapons or accessories) to make the ultimate version of the character.

A straight up 200X translation is carbon copying 200X, while a straight up vintage translation is carbon copying the vintage line. We have those figures already. What we don't have is a mixture of both with even more new ideas. MOTUC should be it's own era unto itself.

MOTUC should be a pairing of the best and brightest ideas, vintage, 200X or new, to make the best versions of characters.

To me, it means that Mattel has finally realized what sells the best. I know that there is a strong support for the 200X designs and I'm sure they would sell as well, but I don't think they'd be anywhere near as successful as the vintage designs. The vintage look has been the driving force of this line since day 1. Even the first character released (King Grayskull) had a very vintage He-Man look to him because of the large bulky buck used to make him.

But ALL of the figures have sold out, no matter what era they were from.

Better marketing has been the driving force of this line from the beginning, learning from their mistakes with the 200X line. Returning to parts re-use wasn't so universally accepted initially.

[dedset13]

You forgot a balance--a middle ground.

DOM4 said it best. "A balance between Vintage and 200X in order to get The Best of Both Worlds". In other words, figures should be the vintage version, but should come with all the necessary parts (removable heads, weapons or accessories) to make the ultimate version of the character.

Well, I'm quite glad that the figures aren't being produced that way. To me, it nearly ruined Hordak. Webstor and Buzz-Off also are suffering due to trying to meld both designs. As far as the removable aspects, I'm totally fine with those. However, 200X fans should actually be disappointed by those extra accessories or heads because it may mean you never get to see the more faithful 200X version. I fully believe that the reason Mattel nixed the 200X heads is because they realize that they can sell that 200X figure later on in the line. However, if they kept releasing extra 200X heads, some 200X fans may be much less inclined to pick up 2nd versions later on.

A straight up 200X translation is carbon copying 200X, while a straight up vintage translation is carbon copying the vintage line. We have those figures already. What we don't have is a mixture of both with even more new ideas. MOTUC should be it's own era unto itself.

MOTUC should be a pairing of the best and brightest ideas, vintage, 200X or new, to make the best versions of characters.

If this was the direction that MOTUC took, I highly doubt that it would be anywhere near as successful as it is now. It probably would have lasted through 8 figures if we were lucky and this toyline would be finished.

But ALL of the figures have sold out, no matter what era they were from.

Better marketing has been the driving force of this line from the beginning, learning from their mistakes with the 200X line. Returning to parts re-use wasn't so universally accepted initially.

Of course all the figures have sold out. This line is awesome!! The era a character is from doesn't necessarily mean anything because they all look vintage based thanks to the vintage buck, like I stated in my original post about King Grayskull.

Better marketing is definitely not the driving force behind this line. It is absolutely the nostalgic factor. The RSOD, the WSOD, 15 minute sell outs, horrible quality control, these are hardly better marketing strategies.

As for parts re-use, most people complaining about that were 200X fans who used it as ammunition against the vintage style and in support of their preferred style.

[MegaGearMax]

Well, I'm quite glad that the figures aren't being produced that way. To me, it nearly ruined Hordak. Webstor and Buzz-Off also are suffering due to trying to meld both designs. As far as the removable aspects, I'm totally fine with those. However, 200X fans should actually be disappointed by those extra accessories or heads because it may mean you never get to see the more faithful 200X version. I fully believe that the reason Mattel nixed the 200X heads is because they realize that they can sell that 200X figure later on in the line. However, if they kept releasing extra 200X heads, some 200X fans may be much less inclined to pick up 2nd versions later on.

We wouldn't need full-on 200X versions later on.

If they were going to make fully realized 200X versions, I think we wouldn't be getting the 200X elements that we are getting now. The releases would probably be totally vintage. The 200X stuff we are getting has to snuck into the line on a piece-by-piece basis. In the far off future, we might get a 200X head pack, but probably not with the current regime at Mattel.

If this was the direction that MOTUC took, I highly doubt that it would be anywhere near as successful as it is now. It probably would have lasted through 8 figures if we were lucky and this toyline would be finished.

Why wouldn't it have been? It's the same thing we have now, only with more accessories packed in. I did say that the figures should be the vintage versions only with more 4H (new or 200X) removable accessories. That's what I mean by things should be more of a mix.

200X flopped because of Mattel's crappy marketing--which was the same marketing that caused Harry Potter and Batman to flop, it wasn't because people hated the different loincloths or unique sculpts. If anything, unique sculpts probably would have been less controversial initially and we wouldn't have had the constant in-fighting that resulted from returning to parts re-use.

[dedset13]

We wouldn't need full-on 200X versions later on.

If they were going to make fully realized 200X versions, I think we wouldn't be getting the 200X elements that we are getting now. The releases would probably be totally vintage. The 200X stuff we are getting has to snuck into the line on a piece-by-piece basis. In the far off future, we might get a 200X head pack, but probably not with the current regime at Mattel.

I think a bit differently. You may be right about not needing full-on 200X versions, but I think Mattel sees this as a way to make more money off of the same characters later.

We wouldn't need full-on 200X versions later on.

If they were going to make fully realized 200X versions, I think we wouldn't be getting the 200X elements that we are getting now. The releases would probably be totally vintage. The 200X stuff we are getting has to snuck into the line on a piece-by-piece basis. In the far off future, we might get a 200X head pack, but probably not with the current regime at Mattel.



Why wouldn't it have been? It's the same thing we have now, only with more accessories packed in. I did say that the figures should be the vintage versions only with more 4H (new or 200X) removable accessories. That's what I mean by things should be more of a mix.

This I can understand. I actually like the extra 200X touches that are included with the figures, so long as they are removable. However, every figure that has these makes it more unlikely that there will be a full-on 200X version later. That might not matter to you as long as the figures have some sort of mixture, but I'm sure there are lots of 200X fans who don't want to see mixtures. They would much prefer full-on 200X style figures in the Classics style (bulky buck). Being a mostly vintage fan, I can say that I was not too thrilled about the mixture in the Hordak release and I'm sure lots of 200X fans feel the same way about certain figures.

[dedset13]

200X flopped because of Mattel's crappy marketing--which was the same marketing that caused Harry Potter and Batman to flop, it wasn't because people hated the different loincloths or unique sculpts.

That was absolutely a huge part of why the 200X line failed. However, it isn't the only reason. For as many people that liked the new designs, I'm sure there were just as many who hated or disliked them. I think that also helped contribute to the failure. The 200X line needed the support of the vintage fans to be successful and I don't think they were all on board. I watched every episode of MYP, read every issue of MVCreations and bought every single figure released in the 200X line, crazy variants included. But I'm a die-hard MOTU fan. I'm sure that there were many old-school fans who weren't as die-hard, that saw an episode or two and saw the figures on the shelves and thought "that's not MOTU" and never gave them a second glance.

[Mr. Shokoti]

As for parts re-use, most people complaining about that were 200X fans who used it as ammunition against the vintage style and in support of their preferred style.

I feel that way as well. Even though I've had people basically call me a liar on these boards when I say I prefer the re-use of parts, I DO. Not only am I not a fan of the 2002 styles(I guess I just like furry briefs over long stylized loin cloths), I LOVE the ingenious way that Mattel designers are able to make cool characters solely out of repainted parts. I love Mer-Man but who knew by painting him black & giving him Mekaneck's armor would make him the perfect "skunk".

Better marketing is definitely not the driving force behind this line. It is absolutely the nostalgic factor. The RSOD, the WSOD, 15 minute sell outs, horrible quality control, these are hardly better marketing strategies.

Sure, MOTUC is definitely on a smaller scale than the 2002 line was but isn't "the RSOD, the WSOD, 15 minute sell outs, horrible quality control" even more detrimental to the line's success than the various variants & poor packouts of the 2002 line? That makes this line's relative success even more impressive.

[MegaGearMax]

Of course all the figures have sold out. This line is awesome!! The era a character is from doesn't necessarily mean anything because they all look vintage based thanks to the vintage buck, like I stated in my original post about King Grayskull.

Better marketing is definitely not the driving force behind this line. It is absolutely the nostalgic factor. The RSOD, the WSOD, 15 minute sell outs, horrible quality control, these are hardly better marketing strategies.

I disagree. Nostalgia is the reason why the parts re-use is overlooked. The reason we're going onto having 50 figures in the line isn't because fans are nostalgic--it's because you can get the figures online, instead of camping out at retail or worrying about case ratios. The support would have been there, but they couldn't get the figures. The purists notwithstanding, these are the same fans who were collecting 200X, only there's alot less fans because the line isn't at retail, nor is it supported by a cartoon. A lot of people aren't aware MOTU is back.

It's the way the releases are handled--Mattel learned from it's mistakes with 200X. That's why we don't have endless variants. That's why this line caters to the collector, instead of kids. It's almost the same reason why Mattel can sell DCUC after Batman flopped so many years ago--they've gotten better at keeping the brand alive, rather than sabotaging it with mistakes at retail.

As for parts re-use, most people complaining about that were 200X fans who used it as ammunition against the vintage style and in support of their preferred style.

On other sites, many casual toy collectors were on the fence and complained about the parts re-use initially, compared to the unique sculpts of the 200X line. It wasn't just 200X fans.

[dedset13]

I disagree. Nostalgia is the reason why the parts re-use is overlooked. The reason we're going onto having 50 figures in the line isn't because fans are nostalgic--it's because you can get the figures online, instead of camping out at retail or worrying about case ratios. The support would have been there, but they couldn't get the figures. The purists notwithstanding, these are the same fans who were collecting 200X, only there's alot less fans because the line isn't at retail, nor is it supported by a cartoon. A lot of people aren't aware MOTU is back.

I highly disagree with all of this, but we'll never change each other's opinions, so it's a mute point to discuss it.

On other sites, many casual toy collectors were on the fence and complained about the parts re-use initially, compared to the unique sculpts of the 200X line. It wasn't just 200X fans.

Oh it definitely wasn't just 200X fans. I'm sure there were some vintage fans who didn't particularly like that aspect. However, the vast majority opposed to it were 200X fans and that was one of their main rallying cries against the vintage style. I think lots of vintage fans, not all or most, but lots actually like parts re-use. I feel the same as Shokoti posted above, I think it's very clever and artistic.

[Benedict Judas Hel]

It's perfect just the way it is. It's as I expected and continue to expect in the future. The design pattern has not deviated in an extreme percentile from the proposed target.

[DO4M]

While I wish for more 200X elements in MOTUC, this does not mean that I want the Full blown 200X Exaggerated armor proportions and hyper detailed battle damaged armor and Gigantic weapons. (Or the Angular bodies.)

By that I mean take things that would improve the character's look. For Example Roboto's "Battle Armor". It could've been done Without the dreaded Anime Hyper detail.
It helps break down the "Purely Vintage Look" that he has for those who prefer a less "Vintage Inspired" look.
It would've doubled as a holster for some of his extra parts.

This is supposed to be the end all be all MOTU line, not Vintage 2.0 or 200X 2.0 yet it's starting to look more like the second coming of the Vintage line...

The biggest problem with the 200X vs Vintage arguments is that MATTEL has ZERO idea of what is too much 200X.

On the other hand I disapprove of the non-removability of Webstor's legs.

Grizzlor's back has "the best of both worlds" element. It looks "Vintage like" yet it's a 200X element.

Triklops collection of Kunai is a cool addition, like the SG Reliquary or MAA's back holster. It's not Vintage, nor 200X; yet it's an improvement that fits with the character.

Long rambling rant short: I don't care if the element comes from Vintage, 200X, or 4h inspiration. If it helps make the figure the BEST version of said character, bring it on!

[Jubilation]

I Think MOTUC Is Perfect Just The Way It Is!

[Rodster6]

I think it is fine as it is, but I may feel differently if Clawful and Mantenna are to vintage.

[Count Marzo]

I selected "I wish the line was even more vintage in design" but I meant to select that it's perfect the way it is. I only wish the bios were more vintage and not almost all 200x-based and that technically isn't "design" so I jumped the gun voting in this.

[Merman's Head]

I think that most of the line is fine the way it is. There are a couple figures that I think could benefit from a little more 200X in their design, however. And by this I only mean an extra head here (Buzz-Off) or some extra armor there (Roboto). Although he is not one of my favorite figures at all, Webstor pretty much represents how I think the figures should be. Mainly vintage in design, with the 200X legs added in. Just my 2 cents.

[EldestSon]

i think it's fine as is. sy-klone is the first fig i've felt underwhelmed about...BUT that said, all i've seen is what is likely just a proto. not the final fig. i've loved the sculpt and paint apps for all the other figs. most of my nitpicks have to do with things like articulation (for example, tytus's lack of articulation).

ETA: the number of people who love EVERYTHING about any single toy line is probably very small. most people will be able to find SOMETHING they don't like about a toy line.

[The Blue Beetle]

I think the line is great just the way it is, with the vintage look taking priority - but with a few modern/200x add-on pieces included, as long as they don't interfere with the vintage look, ie Grizzlor's removable loin cloth & Sy-Klone's removable ring.

[Mr. Shokoti]

EDIT: I thought I'd put my feelings about ToyGuru's "call to action" for 2002 toys in this thread since (1) I didn't want to start a brand new thread since there are way too many of these to begin with & (2) I didn't want to jump on a thread created by 2002 fans since I don't like it when some of them derail various Filmation threads with agressive posts that are just looking to start trouble.

Let's just forget about whether or not you like the 2002 toyline, MYP's toon, or the MOTU designs, WHY does ToyGuru keep going back & forth with Mattel's view of the 2002 designs & MOTUC in general? One day it's that "the design is retired" and "you'll never see a 2002 He-Man toy". Then it's "a 2002 He-Man toy isn't planned but it isn't impossible". Now it's "bang your drums so we can get more 2002 toys". Is he just messing with the passionate fans of that era just to watch them scurry to their computer to create more petitions? Does he just get caught saying things that he'll later regret? Does he just flip a coin like Two-Face before he answers any Q&A's in order to see what his answer will be on the usual barrage of 2002 questions?

Personally, I don't care if 2002 toys are made or not. If they are, that's great for the fans. If they aren't, I wasn't going to buy them anyway. What does annoy me is that if that was a possibility all along, why "diminish" the vintage designs with 2002 details if we're eventually going to be getting 2002 toys anyway? Also, you know this is just going to lead to more arguments on the subject. Some forum members still post screen long diatribes on why MOTUC should be about 2002(and no, I'm not looking at MegaGearMax). When ToyGuru keeps going back & forth on Mattel's stance on 2002 designs, it's like throwing a raw steak between 2 packs of dingoes. Whatever Mattel plans to do about this, I hope they do it(or don't do it) soon so we don't have to deal with an onslaught of debates, arguments, insults, and bannings every time a new MOTUC toy is revealed.