Is MOTUC Too Vintage Or Just Right?

[Mr. Shokoti]

There seem to be some people upset with every MOTUC toy released that is based on a character from the original line. They feel they are just straight "remakes" of the vintage toys. Unless sales start dropping & it takes days for any new toys to sell out, I really don't see that "problem" getting fixed anytime soon.

What does that mean to you MOTUC collectors out there?

[phantom1592]

I love the vintage designs, and never really liked any of the 'updates' that 200x brought.

I have no problem with 200x added stuff... as long as it's removable. However if they start 'mixing' too much... theres a pretty good chance what a lot of people see as 'improvements' will ruin the characters for me.

[dedset13]

To me, it means that Mattel has finally realized what sells the best. I know that there is a strong support for the 200X designs and I'm sure they would sell as well, but I don't think they'd be anywhere near as successful as the vintage designs. The vintage look has been the driving force of this line since day 1. Even the first character released (King Grayskull) had a very vintage He-Man look to him because of the large bulky buck used to make him.

I for one am extremely glad that Mattel has taken this direction with the MOTUC line. It was what I would have preferred to see in 2002 instead of the newly designed relaunch. I can only dream about how awesome the 200X show could have been with a vintage look, the continuing story lines and slightly more mature subject matter that the 200X toon had.

[Mr. Karate]

I understand that MOTUC is supposed to be all about the Vintage look and that's just fine but their new policy about 200X heads and their seemingly random release of 200X characters leaves me a bit confused at times. I'm the kind of collector that only purchases one representation of a character so I don't know whether to purchase Buzz Off or wait and see if they come out with a 200X style Buzz Off eventually.

Most of the time I will choose the vintage look but in other cases I feel the 200X look is much better so I'd hate to purchase a figure to complete my team and have the "better looking" version come out a few months later. Then again even with the same exact figures, ala He-Man and King Grayskull, they've had superior releases after the initial release.

Good thing the MOTUC aftermarket isn't too bad.

[MegaGearMax]

You forgot a balance--a middle ground.

DOM4 said it best. "A balance between Vintage and 200X in order to get The Best of Both Worlds". In other words, figures should be the vintage version, but should come with all the necessary parts (removable heads, weapons or accessories) to make the ultimate version of the character.

A straight up 200X translation is carbon copying 200X, while a straight up vintage translation is carbon copying the vintage line. We have those figures already. What we don't have is a mixture of both with even more new ideas. MOTUC should be it's own era unto itself.

MOTUC should be a pairing of the best and brightest ideas, vintage, 200X or new, to make the best versions of characters.

To me, it means that Mattel has finally realized what sells the best. I know that there is a strong support for the 200X designs and I'm sure they would sell as well, but I don't think they'd be anywhere near as successful as the vintage designs. The vintage look has been the driving force of this line since day 1. Even the first character released (King Grayskull) had a very vintage He-Man look to him because of the large bulky buck used to make him.

But ALL of the figures have sold out, no matter what era they were from.

Better marketing has been the driving force of this line from the beginning, learning from their mistakes with the 200X line. Returning to parts re-use wasn't so universally accepted initially.

[Mr. Shokoti]

Personally, I disagree with those upset by the "remakes". None of them have been 100% remakes due to added details, touches of 2002 designs & weapons, and the fact that MOTUC toys are larger & have better posture than the vintage line. To be honest, the only options are vintage designs(I feel most of those still hold up today), 2002 designs(I'm not a fan and I don't feel there is one design from that era that I feel improved on the vintage designs), or something new(we're getting plenty of new characters like Vikor & Mo-Larr; since I like most of the old designs, I really don't want to see 2002 2.0 designs). As long as any 2002 details are removable(poor Webstor) or any new details are an improvement(Man-At-Arm's added weapons), I'm happy.

You forgot a balance--a middle ground.

No I didn't. If you feel there is too much "vintage" in MOTUC, you Wish The Line Was Even More "2002" In Design. That would bring it up to "a middle ground".

A straight up 200X translation is carbon copying 200X, while a straight up vintage translation is carbon copying the vintage line. We have those figures already. What we don't have is a mixture of both with even more new ideas. MOTUC should be it's own era unto itself.

Aren't you the same person who has been campaigning for a 2002 He-Man in this line since it first started? MOTUC He-Man's hair & face are different from his vintage head and MOTUC has already released his vintage & 2002 weapons & armor in one way or another. Isn't that a mixture of both with new ideas?

[dedset13]

You forgot a balance--a middle ground.

DOM4 said it best. "A balance between Vintage and 200X in order to get The Best of Both Worlds". In other words, figures should be the vintage version, but should come with all the necessary parts (removable heads, weapons or accessories) to make the ultimate version of the character.

Well, I'm quite glad that the figures aren't being produced that way. To me, it nearly ruined Hordak. Webstor and Buzz-Off also are suffering due to trying to meld both designs. As far as the removable aspects, I'm totally fine with those. However, 200X fans should actually be disappointed by those extra accessories or heads because it may mean you never get to see the more faithful 200X version. I fully believe that the reason Mattel nixed the 200X heads is because they realize that they can sell that 200X figure later on in the line. However, if they kept releasing extra 200X heads, some 200X fans may be much less inclined to pick up 2nd versions later on.

A straight up 200X translation is carbon copying 200X, while a straight up vintage translation is carbon copying the vintage line. We have those figures already. What we don't have is a mixture of both with even more new ideas. MOTUC should be it's own era unto itself.

MOTUC should be a pairing of the best and brightest ideas, vintage, 200X or new, to make the best versions of characters.

If this was the direction that MOTUC took, I highly doubt that it would be anywhere near as successful as it is now. It probably would have lasted through 8 figures if we were lucky and this toyline would be finished.

But ALL of the figures have sold out, no matter what era they were from.

Better marketing has been the driving force of this line from the beginning, learning from their mistakes with the 200X line. Returning to parts re-use wasn't so universally accepted initially.

Of course all the figures have sold out. This line is awesome!! The era a character is from doesn't necessarily mean anything because they all look vintage based thanks to the vintage buck, like I stated in my original post about King Grayskull.

Better marketing is definitely not the driving force behind this line. It is absolutely the nostalgic factor. The RSOD, the WSOD, 15 minute sell outs, horrible quality control, these are hardly better marketing strategies.

As for parts re-use, most people complaining about that were 200X fans who used it as ammunition against the vintage style and in support of their preferred style.

[MegaGearMax]

Well, I'm quite glad that the figures aren't being produced that way. To me, it nearly ruined Hordak. Webstor and Buzz-Off also are suffering due to trying to meld both designs. As far as the removable aspects, I'm totally fine with those. However, 200X fans should actually be disappointed by those extra accessories or heads because it may mean you never get to see the more faithful 200X version. I fully believe that the reason Mattel nixed the 200X heads is because they realize that they can sell that 200X figure later on in the line. However, if they kept releasing extra 200X heads, some 200X fans may be much less inclined to pick up 2nd versions later on.

We wouldn't need full-on 200X versions later on.

If they were going to make fully realized 200X versions, I think we wouldn't be getting the 200X elements that we are getting now. The releases would probably be totally vintage. The 200X stuff we are getting has to snuck into the line on a piece-by-piece basis. In the far off future, we might get a 200X head pack, but probably not with the current regime at Mattel.

If this was the direction that MOTUC took, I highly doubt that it would be anywhere near as successful as it is now. It probably would have lasted through 8 figures if we were lucky and this toyline would be finished.

Why wouldn't it have been? It's the same thing we have now, only with more accessories packed in. I did say that the figures should be the vintage versions only with more 4H (new or 200X) removable accessories. That's what I mean by things should be more of a mix.

200X flopped because of Mattel's crappy marketing--which was the same marketing that caused Harry Potter and Batman to flop, it wasn't because people hated the different loincloths or unique sculpts. If anything, unique sculpts probably would have been less controversial initially and we wouldn't have had the constant in-fighting that resulted from returning to parts re-use.

[Mr. Shokoti]

As for parts re-use, most people complaining about that were 200X fans who used it as ammunition against the vintage style and in support of their preferred style.

I feel that way as well. Even though I've had people basically call me a liar on these boards when I say I prefer the re-use of parts, I DO. Not only am I not a fan of the 2002 styles(I guess I just like furry briefs over long stylized loin cloths), I LOVE the ingenious way that Mattel designers are able to make cool characters solely out of repainted parts. I love Mer-Man but who knew by painting him black & giving him Mekaneck's armor would make him the perfect "skunk".

Better marketing is definitely not the driving force behind this line. It is absolutely the nostalgic factor. The RSOD, the WSOD, 15 minute sell outs, horrible quality control, these are hardly better marketing strategies.

Sure, MOTUC is definitely on a smaller scale than the 2002 line was but isn't "the RSOD, the WSOD, 15 minute sell outs, horrible quality control" even more detrimental to the line's success than the various variants & poor packouts of the 2002 line? That makes this line's relative success even more impressive.

[dedset13]

We wouldn't need full-on 200X versions later on.

If they were going to make fully realized 200X versions, I think we wouldn't be getting the 200X elements that we are getting now. The releases would probably be totally vintage. The 200X stuff we are getting has to snuck into the line on a piece-by-piece basis. In the far off future, we might get a 200X head pack, but probably not with the current regime at Mattel.

I think a bit differently. You may be right about not needing full-on 200X versions, but I think Mattel sees this as a way to make more money off of the same characters later.

We wouldn't need full-on 200X versions later on.

If they were going to make fully realized 200X versions, I think we wouldn't be getting the 200X elements that we are getting now. The releases would probably be totally vintage. The 200X stuff we are getting has to snuck into the line on a piece-by-piece basis. In the far off future, we might get a 200X head pack, but probably not with the current regime at Mattel.



Why wouldn't it have been? It's the same thing we have now, only with more accessories packed in. I did say that the figures should be the vintage versions only with more 4H (new or 200X) removable accessories. That's what I mean by things should be more of a mix.

This I can understand. I actually like the extra 200X touches that are included with the figures, so long as they are removable. However, every figure that has these makes it more unlikely that there will be a full-on 200X version later. That might not matter to you as long as the figures have some sort of mixture, but I'm sure there are lots of 200X fans who don't want to see mixtures. They would much prefer full-on 200X style figures in the Classics style (bulky buck). Being a mostly vintage fan, I can say that I was not too thrilled about the mixture in the Hordak release and I'm sure lots of 200X fans feel the same way about certain figures.

[MegaGearMax]

Of course all the figures have sold out. This line is awesome!! The era a character is from doesn't necessarily mean anything because they all look vintage based thanks to the vintage buck, like I stated in my original post about King Grayskull.

Better marketing is definitely not the driving force behind this line. It is absolutely the nostalgic factor. The RSOD, the WSOD, 15 minute sell outs, horrible quality control, these are hardly better marketing strategies.

I disagree. Nostalgia is the reason why the parts re-use is overlooked. The reason we're going onto having 50 figures in the line isn't because fans are nostalgic--it's because you can get the figures online, instead of camping out at retail or worrying about case ratios. The support would have been there, but they couldn't get the figures. The purists notwithstanding, these are the same fans who were collecting 200X, only there's alot less fans because the line isn't at retail, nor is it supported by a cartoon. A lot of people aren't aware MOTU is back.

It's the way the releases are handled--Mattel learned from it's mistakes with 200X. That's why we don't have endless variants. That's why this line caters to the collector, instead of kids. It's almost the same reason why Mattel can sell DCUC after Batman flopped so many years ago--they've gotten better at keeping the brand alive, rather than sabotaging it with mistakes at retail.

As for parts re-use, most people complaining about that were 200X fans who used it as ammunition against the vintage style and in support of their preferred style.

On other sites, many casual toy collectors were on the fence and complained about the parts re-use initially, compared to the unique sculpts of the 200X line. It wasn't just 200X fans.

[dedset13]

200X flopped because of Mattel's crappy marketing--which was the same marketing that caused Harry Potter and Batman to flop, it wasn't because people hated the different loincloths or unique sculpts.

That was absolutely a huge part of why the 200X line failed. However, it isn't the only reason. For as many people that liked the new designs, I'm sure there were just as many who hated or disliked them. I think that also helped contribute to the failure. The 200X line needed the support of the vintage fans to be successful and I don't think they were all on board. I watched every episode of MYP, read every issue of MVCreations and bought every single figure released in the 200X line, crazy variants included. But I'm a die-hard MOTU fan. I'm sure that there were many old-school fans who weren't as die-hard, that saw an episode or two and saw the figures on the shelves and thought "that's not MOTU" and never gave them a second glance.

[DO4M]

While I wish for more 200X elements in MOTUC, this does not mean that I want the Full blown 200X Exaggerated armor proportions and hyper detailed battle damaged armor and Gigantic weapons. (Or the Angular bodies.)

By that I mean take things that would improve the character's look. For Example Roboto's "Battle Armor". It could've been done Without the dreaded Anime Hyper detail.
It helps break down the "Purely Vintage Look" that he has for those who prefer a less "Vintage Inspired" look.
It would've doubled as a holster for some of his extra parts.

This is supposed to be the end all be all MOTU line, not Vintage 2.0 or 200X 2.0 yet it's starting to look more like the second coming of the Vintage line...

The biggest problem with the 200X vs Vintage arguments is that MATTEL has ZERO idea of what is too much 200X.

On the other hand I disapprove of the non-removability of Webstor's legs.

Grizzlor's back has "the best of both worlds" element. It looks "Vintage like" yet it's a 200X element.

Triklops collection of Kunai is a cool addition, like the SG Reliquary or MAA's back holster. It's not Vintage, nor 200X; yet it's an improvement that fits with the character.

Long rambling rant short: I don't care if the element comes from Vintage, 200X, or 4h inspiration. If it helps make the figure the BEST version of said character, bring it on!

[dedset13]

I disagree. Nostalgia is the reason why the parts re-use is overlooked. The reason we're going onto having 50 figures in the line isn't because fans are nostalgic--it's because you can get the figures online, instead of camping out at retail or worrying about case ratios. The support would have been there, but they couldn't get the figures. The purists notwithstanding, these are the same fans who were collecting 200X, only there's alot less fans because the line isn't at retail, nor is it supported by a cartoon. A lot of people aren't aware MOTU is back.

I highly disagree with all of this, but we'll never change each other's opinions, so it's a mute point to discuss it.

On other sites, many casual toy collectors were on the fence and complained about the parts re-use initially, compared to the unique sculpts of the 200X line. It wasn't just 200X fans.

Oh it definitely wasn't just 200X fans. I'm sure there were some vintage fans who didn't particularly like that aspect. However, the vast majority opposed to it were 200X fans and that was one of their main rallying cries against the vintage style. I think lots of vintage fans, not all or most, but lots actually like parts re-use. I feel the same as Shokoti posted above, I think it's very clever and artistic.

[Benedict Judas Hel]

It's perfect just the way it is. It's as I expected and continue to expect in the future. The design pattern has not deviated in an extreme percentile from the proposed target.

[MOTS]

my favorite default style is vintage, but there are some designs i think were better in 200x. Mainly non-human characters like buzz off, whiplash, mosquitor..... I would like to see a couple of 200x remakes mostly for articulation. though thats likely not to happen. I am disapointed that they discontinued alt heads, I liked the option. Were people actually annoyed that an option for a figure was included?

[Fisto69]

i said i think it is perfect just how it is, however, only because that is the choice that mostly reflects how i feel. I think just a little more touch of the 200x influence would be benefitial. For instance i think Sy-Klone would look even better if he had that verticle piece on his helmet so he did not look like he was wearing a headband, buts thats the only extra 200x influence i would add.

[heavy-eternium]

I Think MOTUC Is Perfect Just The Way It Is.

[TheFallen]

I think MOTUC is perfect just the way it is, providing it continues to add the extra elements.

I like the Millennium Ring on Sy-Klone, I like the 200x Whiplash head, I like Count Marzo and I want to see those additions. But overall I want to see MOTUC keep the extra new additions we have seen, MAA's backpack, Scareglow's Reliquary, etc.

[MOONCHILD]

To me it's just perfect the way it is.
I'm a big fan of the vintage line, so to me havin having this line completelly based on the vintage line with modern updates just like the articulation points is just what I wanted. I'm also fine with the inclusion of some 200X elements, as long as they fit the character, or if they are optional/removable, just like 2nd head and weapon, that came with Whiplash.

[Xetheus]

It's very good as it is but I wished it has more the best of both lines...e.g. Grizzlor with the second face plate...I just wished we would receive everything the FH throw in so everybody can have it more vintage or more 200X. I would have bought an additional Grizzlor to the two I already have just to display both faces...I am very happy it worked out with Whiplash and would be very sad if 200X influence becomes less. I can understand vintage fans but I e.g. did not want Count Marzo do look any different than he is now. Vintage is fine but 200X had it's improvements as well!

[Jubilation]

I Think MOTUC Is Perfect Just The Way It Is!

[Rodster6]

I think it is fine as it is, but I may feel differently if Clawful and Mantenna are to vintage.

[Count Marzo]

I selected "I wish the line was even more vintage in design" but I meant to select that it's perfect the way it is. I only wish the bios were more vintage and not almost all 200x-based and that technically isn't "design" so I jumped the gun voting in this.

[Merman's Head]

I think that most of the line is fine the way it is. There are a couple figures that I think could benefit from a little more 200X in their design, however. And by this I only mean an extra head here (Buzz-Off) or some extra armor there (Roboto). Although he is not one of my favorite figures at all, Webstor pretty much represents how I think the figures should be. Mainly vintage in design, with the 200X legs added in. Just my 2 cents.