POP Concept Character "JOSH" for the MOTUC!

[guitargod694]

Well, I don't want him all changed up. Cool bio/backstory, a few weapons like a sword and a pitchfork. I mean, there ARE people who wanted random Filmation villagers. Josh is sort of like that, but a major part of the Rebellion.

Fair enough.
But you have to understand how that doesn't translate to a vast amount of interest from the general MotU fanbase, yes?
There are hundreds of characters in MotU/PoP/New Adventures,
a guy that most of us have never heard of before is going to have to be visually interesting/compelling to garner a lot of support.

And in my opinion, things like Vikor and Gygor can do that for the majority of fans a lot easier than "random villager #4" can.

Not saying I'm opposed to Josh, exactly.
Just that it doesn't surprise me that there doesn't seem to be a ton of interest.

[Reboot]

Josh is important enough to be brought to a special picnic to relax with the top 3 members of the Great Rebellion and he's their close friend. Yeah, he's just random villager # 6. Come on. We didn't learn much about him, but he's obviously important and not trivial.

Okay, so he won July's "Have tea with the bosses" morale-boosting competition. That doesn't make him important.

Let's state a general rule: Importance is directly proportional to screentime. There are very few exceptions to this that don't come across as wholly hollow, most of which involve death or presumed death in episode 1, leaving their importance to the past. We believe Adora/She-Ra is important to Adam/He-Man not because she's asserted to be his sister, but because he visits her frequently over the course of the [Filmation] series, and shows concern when something happens to her (e.g., when Loo-Kee shows up proclaiming there to be "big trouble on Etheria", his first words are "Adora! Is my sister all right?") - and vice-versa, of course.

In fact, my "general rule" was too wordy. Really, what I mean is "show, don't tell". Set against everything where Josh doesn't show up and isn't mentioned, a few pages in the framing sequence of one toy pack-in comic don't amount to a hill of beans in assigning him importance.

[Darkspecter]

Fair enough.
But you have to understand how that doesn't translate to a vast amount of interest from the general MotU fanbase, yes?
There are hundreds of characters in MotU/PoP/New Adventures,
a guy that most of us have never heard of before is going to have to be visually interesting/compelling to garner a lot of support.

And in my opinion, things like Vikor and Gygor can do that for the majority of fans a lot easier than "random villager #4" can.

Not saying I'm opposed to Josh, exactly.
Just that it doesn't surprise me that there doesn't seem to be a ton of interest.

I'm fine with him not being the most popular, but I do still want him. I mean, the way our displays will look at the end of the line if we only get toys that were made of figures:

A whole lot of superheroes and supervillains...and "spoiled/lazy" Adam. Adora at least fights in the Rebellion. Adam tries to fight off a major case of the "Z's."

Doesn't it seem a bit ridiculous to have action figures of their secret identity, when we won't really get figures of characters they need to protect it from?

If they don't know who He-Man is, and there's only ONE guy who's not a superhero...I think our toys will figure it out.

Okay, so he won July's "Have tea with the bosses" morale-boosting competition. That doesn't make him important.

Let's state a general rule: Importance is directly proportional to screentime. There are very few exceptions to this that don't come across as wholly hollow, most of which involve death or presumed death in episode 1, leaving their importance to the past. We believe Adora/She-Ra is important to Adam/He-Man not because she's asserted to be his sister, but because he visits her frequently over the course of the [Filmation] series, and shows concern when something happens to her (e.g., when Loo-Kee shows up proclaiming there to be "big trouble on Etheria", his first words are "Adora! Is my sister all right?") - and vice-versa, of course.

In fact, my "general rule" was too wordy. Really, what I mean is "show, don't tell". Set against everything where Josh doesn't show up and isn't mentioned, a few pages in the framing sequence one toy pack-in comic don't amount to a hill of beans in assigning him importance.

Gygor, Vikor, Josh. Random beast, random viking, second male Great Rebellion warrior. No screentime, no screentime, screentime.

*shrugs*

I'm not trying to make him bigger than he's supposed to be. When you read, you infer certain things and there are certain literary devices (like foreshadowing). We don't end up learning much about Josh, but from what we witnessed, we can infer he's important to the most important people in the Great Rebellion.

If some people don't like him or whatever, that's fine, but to some fans "Josh" is their Vikor or Green Goddess and MOTUC is a chance to finally get him and learn about his background and what he can do.

[Captain Atkin]

Dress him up as an "Etherian Palace Guard" and I'm all for a Josh figure. Otherwise... forget it.

[guitargod694]

Yeah, that's fair.
I can definitely see why some people would like him.
There are characters just as obscure that I'd love to see made.

I just got the sense (not from you, specifically, just in general) that some of the people that liked/wanted Josh were a little miffed/surprised that so many others didn't.

[Reboot]

I'm not trying to make him bigger than he's supposed to be.

And yet you're throwing out words like "major" and "important" - words that, as far as I can see, no-one's using to describe Conan's long-lost twin or 7-Up Grodd.

We don't end up learning much about Josh, but from what we witnessed, we can infer he's important to the most important people in the Great Rebellion.

http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Roy

[Rodster6]

Vikor and Gygor don't look like Joe nobodys so I don't think it's an even comparison.
I still don't see how Josh going on a picnic means anything other than he is one of many friends She-ra and co must have. Makes them seem snobby if they only befriend people who are warriors or kings etc.

Even as a child when I still played with my toys I had no interest in having figures of random people. They were not important enough to warrent anything other than an imaginary image in my games, then they would quickly run off to let the big boys do battle!
I certainly don't want Joe Bloggs and his pals on display in my home as ornaments now im an adult.

I do wanna make clear that I don't mind if they do make him for the people who do want him though.

[gbagok]

It looks to me like the Horsemen could use the same body they might use for Gray, but paint his clothes lavender and give him a new head (and no necklace). I can see why some people wouldn't want him, but I think it'd be neat to find a way to release him. Maybe pack him in with Kowl or Loo-Kee? I'm fine with that, and I think it's all fair game.

[Darkspecter]

And yet you're throwing out words like "major" and "important" - words that, as far as I can see, no-one's using to describe Conan's long-lost twin or 7-Up Grodd.

Vikor wasn't important, but is now. He was one of Eternia's greatest warriors and chosen by the Goddess to protect the Power Sword becoming named "He-Man of the North." So, he went from concept character, to one of the most important characters in the mythos...one of the few chosen to be "He-Man."

Gygor rules Beastman's people, Evil Lord of the Vine Jungle, presumably the "Skeletor" of his time. Oo-Larr and the Goddess' combined powers trapped him. Again, non-important character becoming the main villain of the past.

http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Roy

Roy was a gag character to show cartoons' trying to re-invent themselves.

Anyway, I still am firmly for Josh. We will eventually be getting the Masters of the Universe (heroes), so why should we not get the members of the Great Rebellion? To me, Josh is just as important as simple-minded man who rams things with his head or man with long neck.

[Charlie Brown]

Let's state a general rule: Importance is directly proportional to screentime.

...and that describes our present society...

[Reboot]

Vikor wasn't important, but is now. He was one of Eternia's greatest warriors and chosen by the Goddess to protect the Power Sword becoming named "He-Man of the North." So, he went from concept character, to one of the most important characters in the mythos...one of the few chosen to be "He-Man."

Gygor rules Beastman's people, Evil Lord of the Vine Jungle, presumably the "Skeletor" of his time. Oo-Larr and the Goddess' combined powers trapped him. Again, non-important character becoming the main villain of the past.

...

Uh, I think you overestimate the level of importance a single-paragraph bio on the back of a single figure in an online-only toyline that habitually sells out in ridiculously short periods of time gives a character. Getting a figure elevated them from Z-list to D-list, that's all.

Roy was a gag character to show cartoons' trying to re-invent themselves.

Yep. But let's break it down:

• Shows up out of nowhere for a meal? Check.
• Has minimal screentime? 5 panels says "Check" (and no dialogue at that!)
• Is never seen again afterward? Check.

Clearly, "Josh" was a prank the minicomic writer pulled on you as a child

More seriously, you are REACHING in assigning any sort of deep, meaningful relationship between Josh and anyone. He doesn't talk and stands around in the background. So the core Rebels took pity on the guy and fed him up, and he helped look for the missing Adora. That says nothing at all.

...and that describes our present society...

Point to you

[Darkspecter]

...

Uh, I think you overestimate the level of importance a single-paragraph bio on the back of a single figure in an online-only toyline that habitually sells out in ridiculously short periods of time gives a character. Getting a figure elevated them from Z-list to D-list, that's all.

If we get a new comic or cartoon, what do you think it will be based on though? Probably the one cohesive timeline/storyline the Mattel crew put a lot of time thinking up. I'm not saying I would be happy with that as I'm strongly against some things in the bios (like Teela the clone...and pretty much all cloning in general), but I think that's what would happen.

Yep. But let's break it down:

• Shows up out of nowhere for a meal? Check.
• Has minimal screentime? 5 panels says "Check" (and no dialogue at that!)
• Is never seen again afterward? Check.

Clearly, "Josh" was a prank the minicomic writer pulled on you as a child

More seriously, you are REACHING in assigning any sort of deep, meaningful relationship between Josh and anyone. He doesn't talk and stands around in the background. So the core Rebels took pity on the guy and fed him up, and he helped look for the missing Adora. That says nothing at all.

The only reason Josh doesn't do much in the comic is because of the "new direction" the people who worked on the mini-comics were given. The first mini-comics are darker, and actual comics. The newer ones are picture books with minimal talking, so children could enjoy the pictures. The feedback from the kids was that they liked the pictures, but didn't want to read or something.

But anyway, even if Mattel released him a Josh: member of the Great Rebellion and didn't flesh him out, I would be fine with it and still want him. Etheria is a planet devestated by the almost complete take over by the Evil Horde. Regular people like farmers and teachers were forced to fight back and become extraordinary. Someone who truly represents the battle for Etheria would be refreshing and inspirational. That's just me though. I know you're 100% anti-Josh.

[PrinceAdam101]

...

Uh, I think you overestimate the level of importance a single-paragraph bio on the back of a single figure in an online-only toyline that habitually sells out in ridiculously short periods of time gives a character. Getting a figure elevated them from Z-list to D-list, that's all.


Yep. But let's break it down:

• Shows up out of nowhere for a meal? Check.
• Has minimal screentime? 5 panels says "Check" (and no dialogue at that!)
• Is never seen again afterward? Check.

Clearly, "Josh" was a prank the minicomic writer pulled on you as a child

More seriously, you are REACHING in assigning any sort of deep, meaningful relationship between Josh and anyone. He doesn't talk and stands around in the background. So the core Rebels took pity on the guy and fed him up, and he helped look for the missing Adora. That says nothing at all.


Point to you

Everything you have said is a MOOT point because you will not consider that these same arguments can be made against the three figures I bought from this MOTUC line IN THE LAST MONTH. Vikor, Lt. Spector, and and three additional heads for nameless palace guards also did not possess any of the attributes you say are required to have a deep, meaningful connection to anyone. That is, until they created them. Sorry, you are contradicting the facts.

They are creating and developing storylines and character depth on unknown or little known characters, and Etherian Rebel Josh is a qualifying applicant. He's one of the extremely few from the POP line we can get that Mattel has rights to.

So then, why rain on the parade? How is this proposal taking anything away from you, or anyone? Don't like him? Don't buy him.

If someone just wanted to express that they wouldn't like or collect a figure of him, that's fine. But some keep berating this thread because they wish to silence the subject. They aren't asking me or anyone else to persuade or convince them. Why keep posting if you hate the idea and aren't open to the opposite point of view?

Rodster, for example, has been very vocal but he has at least been respectful and acknowledges his interest in not taking away anybody else's wishes for the line. Others have done the same, but some just want to poop on the subject, end the discussion, and make it go away for good.

If Songster can get a figure, so can Etherian Rebel Josh. Anyone who wishes to explain why frilly, skinny, glam rock Songster should get a figure because he was in a bad stage show once, and at the same time says Josh stinks because he is too little known and didn't contribute sufficiently in his appearance is REALLY splitting hairs.

[hawggie]

Here's an idea for a bio that fits in my bio rewrite thread. Since Bow is named after his weapon and uses playing card symbolism for his arrows, I decided to continue this with Josh and (spoiler) the rest of the band. (Josh is spades)

Rapier - Swordsman of the Great Rebellion
Real Name: Josh Flynn

Josh was a traveling minstrel in Etheria that often accompanied Bow. Bow was a great lyre player, but lyrics and singing were not his strong suit, and that was where Josh filled in. With drummer Mace and keyboard magician Sparkle, they formed the group The Cards. They work together to keep the morale of Etherians high until the day the Great Rebellion defeats the Horde, while using their weapon skills for secret operations.

[Charlie Brown]

...someone had to do this, sooner or later...



josh & bow on warpath!

[PrinceAdam101]

Love it! I have something similar planned... I will share pics when I get done, but it will be a few weeks.

[Rodster6]

That makes god use of the spare Bow head. I don't have Adam on display as I have He-man out so could do this to make an extra figure to display with the rebels.

[Agostinho]

I don't want or need a JOSH, but I don't begrudge Mattel if they chose to make him.

[PrinceAdam101]

In my cannon, he will be Bow's brother (until the day he gets his own bio, anyway LOL). That helps justify the similarity, but I gotta say those two heads don't look exactly the same.

I'm planning to do a different body than Prince Adam's, and do some new paint apps. I'm not very good at that stuff, but my idea is simple!

Will we ever get an official "Etherian Rebel Josh"? Who knows? At least this can be a nice placeholder!

[-= SupernovA =-]

I'd like to see all 17 POP figures updated first and then if the line still goes strong I would like a Josh figure. And he will absolutely be Bow's lover!

[PrinceAdam101]

I'd like to see all 17 POP figures updated first and then if the line still goes strong I would like a Josh figure. And he will absolutely be Bow's lover!

POP figures have been few and far between since '09 when this line kicked into gear. I think the lack of supporting characters is a prime reason why so many aren't interested in discussing expanding the mythos and including characters like the Wizardess or Josh (who are both very minor). I hope that in time, and after several POP supporting females have been released, that fans will be more embracing. I think they will, anyway!

[Kevenn]

PrinceAdam101, you've been doing a good job on your campaigning for this character, because your current avatar - I really like the way Josh looks in it - and I had to check this thread again to make sure I wasn't seeing things. I'd said before that Josh wasn't visually interesting, but if they make him the way he looks in your avatar, I think he would be. I'd welcome an Etherian Rebel Josh that looks like the "fixed-up" version in your avatar.

[MsMarvel fan]

I wouldn't buy him if they called him Josh.

They could call him "stylish nameless guy who dines with Adora and Bow" and I might buy two.

PoP has always needed some fleshing out in the character department. Another guy would be great for the rebellion. Calling him Lance and giving him a big spear (while hilariously inuendo-y) like someone posted a few pages back, would be awesome.

I'm becoming increasingly found of the character, just not as "Josh." His name shall here-forth be unknown to me. My first personal cannon amendment!

[krosfyah]

Everything you have said is a MOOT point because you will not consider that these same arguments can be made against the three figures I bought from this MOTUC line IN THE LAST MONTH. Vikor, Lt. Spector, and and three additional heads for nameless palace guards also did not possess any of the attributes you say are required to have a deep, meaningful connection to anyone. That is, until they created them. Sorry, you are contradicting the facts.

to be fair, the palace guards had A LOT of filmation screen time, the bonus heads are just heads so they don't REALLY count as much as they are just included with the palace guards who again had TONNES of screen time.

Vikor is important to the line as he was one of the earliest concepts for He-Man. it was used as they were fleshing out and pitching the line. I still say the best argument FOR Josh is the whole 'we could do the unknown attak Trak driver from the model kits" statement that was made. every other MOTUC figure that has come out has more meaning - be it historically or from an entertainment point of view than Josh. even Mo-Larr. (yes he was a joke character but he had screen time a voice actor and was part of a popular skit.

All that being said, if they make Josh he'd have to be REALLY cool or come with another really cool pack in to make me buy him, that doesn't mean they SHOULDN'T do him, but like random attak trak driver, there are way too many folks I'd rather see made first. PoP and MOTUC.

[Vahn]

Yeah, his tagline can be:

JOSH: The Guy That Brought the Potato Salad