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Thread: The Man Of Steel/Superman Movie Reboot Thread

  1. #526
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    I seriously can't wait for this movie. I agree about the superman theme. Think its silly to exclude it

  2. #527
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    I think they are not using the theme because they want to distance this from the previous Superman movies. I don't think that they see them as bad films but they want people to see this as it's own thing and the inclusion of the Williams score would immediately make people compare this to the older Reeves and Routh movies.
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  3. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsfang View Post
    I think they are not using the theme because they want to distance this from the previous Superman movies. I don't think that they see them as bad films but they want people to see this as it's own thing and the inclusion of the Williams score would immediately make people compare this to the older Reeves and Routh movies.
    It's understandable but at the very least an actual good theme could be written for the new movie. The music in the teaser trailers and the actual trailer are a freaking bomb. Marvel's Avengers and the related movies have better, more 'heroic' soundtracks compared to 'MOS'. And this new movie is about SUPERMAN, the first superhero!!! You'd think the music for a movie about Superman would be meant to be more epic than any other superhero movie. But, so far, it's as underwhelming as the musical scores for Nolan's Batman trilogy.
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  4. #529
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    I think it would be stupid to use the original theme, move on people, the Williams score is THE DEFINITIVE Superman theme, but these are new movies and they should be treated as such, slavishly clinging to what was is one of the reasons the last movie was a pile of crap in my opinion. for the record ILOVE the driving score of the Nolan Batman movies.

    I will agree that Superman needs a heroic and inspiring theme, but the way this movie is, it shouldn't come until the end of the movie.
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  5. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by krosfyah View Post
    I think it would be stupid to use the original theme, move on people, the Williams score is THE DEFINITIVE Superman theme, but these are new movies and they should be treated as such,
    I think it would be nice to pay homage in the credits or something, but I understand why if they choose not to. I'd like to see it, but I'm not going to have a hissy fit with it gone. I love Superman, always have, I even have the "S" tattood on me.

    With that said, what do you think about using the John Wililams Star Wars theme in the new movies coming out? Sort of the same thing.
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  6. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeologyMule View Post
    I think it would be nice to pay homage in the credits or something, but I understand why if they choose not to. I'd like to see it, but I'm not going to have a hissy fit with it gone. I love Superman, always have, I even have the "S" tattood on me.

    With that said, what do you think about using the John Wililams Star Wars theme in the new movies coming out? Sort of the same thing.
    Naw it's completely different because with Star Wars it's the same universe. if they rebooted star wars then I wouldn't want the John Williams score, but i'd expect the something new to be nearly as memorable. Duel of the Fates from the Phantom menace is a good example, it's so memorable to me and evokes the desired response but it's not Vader's theme or anyone else's. It's John Williams again but he made something new.

    But to further my point, I don't want them to use Vader's theme or any other character specific score for characters that are dead and gone.

    With a reboot you have to let them make their mark with the new property let go of the past and make something new.
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  7. #532
    Master of DVDs BCI Guy's Avatar
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    Agree completely with Krosfyah.

    There is a huge difference between a complete reboot and a straight sequel.

    I absolutely love the John Williams Superman theme. Its so perfect for those movies. But its so incredibly tied to the Chris Reeve movies that I think it would be a huge mistake to link it to the new films.

    The new films should be a clean break in every possible way.

  8. #533
    Born A Monster wolfsfang's Avatar
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    that's basically exactly what I said. People need to stop trying to link this movie to the older ones by insisting they use the old theme.

    As for Star Wars, yes that is a straight sequel so them using the original theme is totally acceptable because it is part of the exact same series
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  9. #534
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    I think you're all so wrong it hurts. Casino Royale and Abram's Star Trek proved you don't need to do such a "hard reboot" to turn a franchise around, and I don't agree that keeping it even in a modified form hurts this movie or is linking it too much to old movies. It is not a liability to Superman on screen and deplore the suggestion that it is.
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  10. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbagok View Post
    I think you're all so wrong it hurts. Casino Royale and Abram's Star Trek proved you don't need to do such a "hard reboot" to turn a franchise around, and I don't agree that keeping it even in a modified form hurts this movie or is linking it too much to old movies. It is not a liability to Superman on screen and deplore the suggestion that it is.
    Well to be fair Abram's Star Trek is not so much a reboot as an alternate dimension (with Spock linking the two) so its really not the same thing at all. An argument could be made it is in the same universe and is more of a sequel just playing out differently that a traditional sequel would

    I think its fine to leave the theme out, just like it was fine to leave the Batman theme Danny Elfman came up with out of the Nolan films.

    I think the theme does bring up nostalgia for Chris Reeves portrayal and that is unfair to everyone involved in the new film. It was so much of a burden imho that it hung heavy on Superman Returns and basically forced Routh to play Reeves.
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  11. #536
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    I sort of agree with all you guys Like I said if the theme is there I'm happy. Bring on something just as epic I'm still happy.

    However, what does bug me is Jimmy Olsen not in it, or the fact they changed his character to a girl, Lois having reddish blonde hair, Lana apparently having black hair, and not to sound like a racist but a black guy is playing Perry White. Reminds me of Michael Clark Duncan playing Kingpin. To me it is a distraction. I've grown up with Jimmy being a boy, Lana with red hair, Lois with black, and Perry being a White guy. Why change that? Not to mention the shorts
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  12. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCI Guy View Post
    Agree completely with Krosfyah.

    There is a huge difference between a complete reboot and a straight sequel.

    I absolutely love the John Williams Superman theme. Its so perfect for those movies. But its so incredibly tied to the Chris Reeve movies that I think it would be a huge mistake to link it to the new films.

    The new films should be a clean break in every possible way.
    I completely agree. The film should be its own thing. No harkening back to the past. You get Superman Returns if you do that. It’s about time DC and WB moved Superman forward. It looks as though that's what they're trying to do. Finally.

  13. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Well to be fair Abram's Star Trek is not so much a reboot as an alternate dimension (with Spock linking the two) so its really not the same thing at all. An argument could be made it is in the same universe and is more of a sequel just playing out differently that a traditional sequel would
    So you think the casual fan can follow that explanation but can't handle the famous Superman theme?
    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    I think its fine to leave the theme out, just like it was fine to leave the Batman theme Danny Elfman came up with out of the Nolan films.
    I found it less than fine, but Batman had already been ruined musically by Forever and & Robin and it was moving away from those that most needed to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    I think the theme does bring up nostalgia for Chris Reeves portrayal and that is unfair to everyone involved in the new film. It was so much of a burden imho that it hung heavy on Superman Returns and basically forced Routh to play Reeves.
    It's not unfair any more than it is unfair to Daniel Craig to play the same basic theme used for Roger Moore movies. Now it was a burden to SR? Seriously, I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeologyMule View Post
    I sort of agree with all you guys
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  14. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbagok View Post
    So you think the casual fan can follow that explanation but can't handle the famous Superman theme?
    When we have over 10 Superman movies I will let you know, but at this point Star Trek is firmly established as a movie franchise. Superman has had 4 movies all with Christopher Reeve and 1 movie with someone trying to be Christopher Reeve. Its not the same thing dude

    It's not unfair any more than it is unfair to Daniel Craig to play the same basic theme used for Roger Moore movies. Now it was a burden to SR? Seriously, I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.
    See what I just said, how many Bond movies have we had with different actors? Did Roger Moore play 99% of the Bonds?

    Given that most everybody feels the same way I think you are the oddity

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  15. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Given that most everybody feels the same way I think you are the oddity

    But we still love you
    I still don't agree, at all, but thanks for that at least.
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  16. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Well to be fair Abram's Star Trek is not so much a reboot as an alternate dimension (with Spock linking the two) so its really not the same thing at all. An argument could be made it is in the same universe and is more of a sequel just playing out differently that a traditional sequel would
    All of the crap added to the original theme got very annoying, especially during the end credits. Plus, for the most part, that film really didn't feel like Star Trek. More like a space adventure movie using the character names and the name of Star Trek. It doesn't capture completely the formula that made Trek what it is. It's just an alternate reality copy.

    I think its fine to leave the theme out, just like it was fine to leave the Batman theme Danny Elfman came up with out of the Nolan films.
    They left the Elfman theme out and replaced it with something I don't remember because it never stuck in my head. Even now I don't remember any music from the Nolan films because none of them stuck out to me. Probably going to be the same with Man of Steel.

    Of course, the music I heard in the Man of Steel trailers is the same generic crap I've heard on the BSG remake and tons of other movies. Too bad. A musical composer with the right touch could've made such an awesome soundtrack for the cinematic Superman of the 21st century. Instead, all we get is one of Nolan's henchmen who hasn't got musical talent but copies from the other crap soundtracks out there.

    The movie still may be pretty good story wise, acting and visual but the music already stinks.
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  17. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    I think the theme does bring up nostalgia for Chris Reeves portrayal and that is unfair to everyone involved in the new film. It was so much of a burden imho that it hung heavy on Superman Returns and basically forced Routh to play Reeves.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the decision to utilize the original theme didn't come out until the film was done, ...if that's the case it shouldn't have any effect on Routh's performance, if there's any hints of him acting like Reeves it shouldn't be blamed on the soundtrack
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  18. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the decision to utilize the original theme didn't come out until the film was done, ...if that's the case it shouldn't have any effect on Routh's performance, if there's any hints of him acting like Reeves it shouldn't be blamed on the soundtrack

    According to an interview with John Ottman

    "Bryan [Singer] said he wouldn't even greenlight the movie if he couldn't use the John Williams music." Ottman continued, "it was important for me to preserve the Williams theme right down to every single note for the opening titles." Ottman referred to his work on Superman Returns as a homage to, not a ripoff of, Williams in the interview
    So yeah the soundtrack was already decided before the movie was even into production, therefore setting the tone that it was to be a continuation and therefore carry the cross of all the past movies with it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hordak Alpha View Post
    Instead, all we get is one of Nolan's henchmen who hasn't got musical talent but copies from the other crap soundtracks out there.
    I know you don't like a lot and think a lot is garbage but do you even know who is scoring Man of Steel? Hans Zimmer is hardly a Nolan henchman with no musical talent

    You are crapping all over the composer of the Lion King, The Prince of Egypt, Gladiator, and Pirates of the Carribean. 4 time Grammy Award and Academy Award as well as Golden Globe winning.
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  19. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    See what I just said, how many Bond movies have we had with different actors? Did Roger Moore play 99% of the Bonds?
    So? Superman had different actors portraying him. What's your point here?

    When I hear John Williams' Superman theme, I don't think solely of Christopher Reeve, I think of Superman. Superman's theme transcends just one actor. I fail to see how the Bond theme gets a pass, especially when it is used in the current movies, which kind of acted as a reboot to the movie franchise starting with Casino Royale. Do you think of Sean Connery when you hear the Bond theme, or do you think of James Bond the character?

  20. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by GP Legend View Post
    So? Superman had different actors portraying him. What's your point here?
    Associated with that theme you have had ONE other actor play Superman, unless John Williams scored the TV Shows when he was a child. If I remember right Lois and Clark did not use the Superman theme and Smallville only used it on the one scene in the finale. So they must have been just as evil as this movie for not using it huh

    When I hear John Williams' Superman theme, I don't think solely of Christopher Reeve, I think of Superman. Superman's theme transcends just one actor. I fail to see how the Bond theme gets a pass, especially when it is used in the current movies, which kind of acted as a reboot to the movie franchise starting with Casino Royale. Do you think of Sean Connery when you hear the Bond theme, or do you think of James Bond the character?
    You are making my point though, attaching the Superman theme to this movie ties it back to the others since Superman is a character, and that is precisely what the people working on Superman don't want. Superman is just a character, a character that has virtually all of his film portrayal as 1 person. The people making this movie want that break.
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  21. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Associated with that theme you have had ONE other actor play Superman, unless John Williams scored the TV Shows when he was a child. If I remember right Lois and Clark did not use the Superman theme and Smallville only used it on the one scene in the finale. So they must have been just as evil as this movie for not using it huh
    Yes, it's evil. That's exactly what my post was getting at.


    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    You are making my point though, attaching the Superman theme to this movie ties it back to the others since Superman is a character, and that is precisely what the people working on Superman don't want. Superman is just a character, a character that has virtually all of his film portrayal as 1 person. The people making this movie want that break.
    You didn't address my point. James Bond has the same theme being used with different actors portraying him. When Bond's theme hits, do you think of Sean Connery, or do you think of the Bond character? Naysayers like you aren't doing a good job of convincing me otherwise that Williams' score is detrimental to Man of Steel. The fact that this is a Superman movie already connects it to the previous films.

  22. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by markatisu View Post
    Smallville only used it on the one scene in the finale.
    Nah... John Williams' music from the films was used sporadically in different forms throughout the Smallville series. Just as an example, you can check out the episode when Clark meets Dr. Swann.

    Just to add to all of this, I'm on the side of actually using the John Williams theme, at least in some form. That particular theme is iconic, definitive, and RIGHT. Show any kid even today a picture of Superman and ask them to fly around the room and sing "his music" and see what happens. Zimmer may be an academy award winning composer, but the ONLY thing I can even remotely remember about any of his compositions is the tribal drums. That's it. His tunes are forgettable and almost come across as background music. I just can't believe they couldn't get someone else to take a crack at this and do something iconic once again, if they had decided to go another route and not use the original theme. Time will tell.

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  23. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeologyMule View Post
    I sort of agree with all you guys
    However, what does bug me is Jimmy Olsen not in it, or the fact they changed his character to a girl, Lois having reddish blonde hair, Lana apparently having black hair, and not to sound like a racist but a black guy is playing Perry White. Reminds me of Michael Clark Duncan playing Kingpin. To me it is a distraction. I've grown up with Jimmy being a boy, Lana with red hair, Lois with black, and Perry being a White guy. Why change that? Not to mention the shorts
    I guess for me, the only realistic answer is "why not" ? all of the stuff that you listed for me, is not at all "make or break" things for the story, to be honest with you i know lois has black hair sure, but it has NEVER been a "trademark" as a mary jane being a red head.

    kingpin trademark, big bald
    olsen, red hair
    perry white, old school paper guy
    lois, strong woman

    so for me, i think that if they want to change anything you listed there is not a good enough reason for them NOT to. sure if they changed supermans color outfit, his hair color, things like that they are toeing the line of "things that are there for a reason" but the things they touch for me, do not serve an over all purpose. but then again i am not a HUGE superman guy, so i might be wrong....

  24. #549
    Heroic Master of Puzzles Thatman's Avatar
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    Just for the record, there have been comics where Lois was drawn with red hair. (Or red-highlighted). Unless the hair color is a big trademark for the character, or something really iconic (Joker), having a red-headed actress play a character who's traditional a brunette is not a big deal to me.

    From what I've heard about the Zimmer theme, it's not bad, but I agree that it's not memorable. I understand people wanting the 'break' from the existing movies, but for me, at least, once a theme really works, it seems to be permanently associated in my mind. I suspect I will end up missing the Williams theme if what's in the movie isn't strong or catchy. (And for the record, I miss the Elfman Batman theme in almost everything - though I really like the Arkham City theme.)
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  25. #550
    Assimilate, or else!! krosfyah's Avatar
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    I just don't understand why fans won't allow for something new. they get up in arms over any changes. "IT MUST HAVE THE WILLIAMS SCORE OR ELSE!!!!!" Why? it's a GREAT score, it is THE definitive music for superman thus far, but why can't they do something else?

    SR for me was garbage for many reasons but I strongly feel the insistence of Singer to make it a sequel to a 30 year old movie was MORONIC. PART of that was holding tight to the old theme, which again while great doesn't HAVE to be in every movie.

    James Bond is different as the franchise never REALLY went away sure this Craig version is rebootish, but it's still capitalizing on the franchise of Bond films. This Superman is trying to bring Superman BACK, just like Tim Burton's Batman (which didn't use the iconic 60s theme - THE HORROR!!!! - just like Batman Begins seperated from what the Burton films devolved into, so separating from what was (particularly Superman Returns which didn't really resonate like they hoped) is of paramount importance. that means repackage the entire product, including the theme. it's a smart move, will it pay off, who knows but it is the best step to take because you want to reinforce that you are bringing the masses a new take.
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